| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Apr 2013 : 14:45:27
I've made it no secret that I'm reading the midgard campaign setting right now, and part of what I'm doing is comparing ideas. I'm up to the Mharoti Empire section, and I can't help but compare to 3rd edition Old Empires. Basically, you've got a portion of the world made up of dragon emperors (the Mharoti Empire) trying to expand against its neighbors (read as the portions of Chessenta following Tchazzar, Threskel following the bone wyrm, and the followers of Tiamat in Unther). Its neighbors are an Egyptian style country (with Egyptian deities who come down in physical form to occasionally aid the country), named Nuria Natal (i.e. Mulhorand). The twist I see on this country is that they have raised some of their prior God-Kings (read as Mulhorandi incarnations that were previous rulers of Mulhorand) in order to aid against their draconic invaders. The Mharoti Empire has already decimated another country ruled by its god-kings (marginally comparable to Unther in that its a country that's decimated by war). They're also challenged by a collection of nearby city-states with a war worshipping culture that mirrors old Greece/Italy (read Chessenta).
I was kind of intrigued to find so many similarities at once. I don't know which set intrigues me more. I will say that the realms authors who are looking to develop the 5E stuff should look at this work, as there are kernels there that are maybe worth considering (for instance, I like the idea of possibly having some of the former Pharaohs of Mulhorand returned to life and causing conflict in the country.... though perhaps through some necromantic magical accident, possibly involving the spellplague... possibly involving Set.... possibly involving Osiris attempting a last ditch method to save the country after Horus-Re's death). |
| 1 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 13 Apr 2013 : 02:14:07
Standard bias disclaimer again.
The similarity stems from the shared use of Egyptian myth. During discussion Wolfgang expressed his affinity towards the ancient Egypt motif, mostly citing Green Ronin's Hamunaptra box set as an inspiration. Just so happens there is overlap with Mulhorand and the Old Empires or Golarion's Osirion for that matter. Which is nice for those who like that flavor.
Overall, I believe the similarities are largely superficial. Both start from the same mythological/cultural basis, but diverge on their own path, at most a heavy remix of the same tropes.
Dragons play a secondary role in the Old Empires, despite Tchazzar’s and Tiamat’s involvement at certain points. I feel the draconic aspect only became more pronounced in the recent editions because WotC chafed against the obvious Egyptian influence. Wolfgang embraced them for his setting despite some people saying they didn't like the heavy Egyptian influence of Nuria-Natal.
The dragons are fundamental to the Mharoti (Dragon Empire). The empire is also better integrated into the setting, playing the role of aggressor empire with far reaching expansionism, far more than the Old Empires ever had in the present. Much of the activity for the Old Empires was in the past, the Mharoti are currently on the rise. The Mharoti have Ottoman Turkish, Arabian, and Persian cues. The Morza dragon lords work together (for the most part), the dragons of the Old Empires seem to want to be singular dominant rulers. The Mharoti have a social system in place that favors scaled-kind, mammalian animals (including humans and demi-humans) are third-class citizens at best. The Realms counterparts don't stress these emphasis.
The major difference I feel is the Mharoti are set up as a winning antagonist but at the same time presented as ambiguous villains. They're actually some of the least vile antagonists of the setting despite being conquering legions of fire-breathing monsters, literally. The Realms have no well-fitting analogue, a non-human/demi-human-dominated successful, large, expansionist empire.
Nuria-Natal shares the Egyptian theme with Mulhorand, but as you said there's the twist of the ancient rulers returning. It is also the kingdom on the wan as opposed to a resurgent Mulhourand. In addition, there's also a rivalry in the pantheon between the pseudo-montheistic Aten and the old (reborn) gods.
Midgard's Southern Gods also make more headway into other regions than their relatively isolationist FR counterparts. Ninkash is worshipped amongst the dwarves, Bastet as Ailuros in the west, and most of the others with some degree of activity in the Seven Cities and beyond. Aten is trying to subvert Lada and Khors. Aten even has a rising heresy all within Nuria-Natal.
Not to be outdone, some of the Dragon gods are trying to muscle in on the West, especially Seggotan claiming Nethus' abandoned temples.
Ishadia seeming so close to Unther is actually my fault. I was allowed to make one pitch for a kingdom and looking at the spaces available, I came up with Ishadia based on the existing circumstances of the region. Ishadia was actually one of 2 or 3 pitches, but the other spot I choose was getting too crowded for its design intent. Without it being on purpose Ishadia happened to hit all the marks that Unther touched on in 3e FR, because that was the archetype allowed in the space. I couldn’t create a whole new nation in the area, yet not have the Mharoti treat them as a punching bag. To do otherwise would defy the guidelines established by the lead designer and setting creator for the region. Saying that, I still feel there's enough differentiating them. Ishadia fell centuries ago during its height rather than Unther recently collapsed after a long decline. Ishadia is a human kingdom with a high aasimar population and also a number of civilized gnolls. Unther faces a comparable human empire in Mulhorand, Ishadia faces the dragonkin of the Mharoti. If you notice which Mharoti provinces Ishadia borders closest, you’ll see it’s two of the most powerful and inimical Morza.
As for what direction the Realms could take from this region? It all depends on what WotC wants to do with the Old Empires in 5E. To have any sort of comparable inspiration, much of the Old Empires would have to return in the new edition. That’s a major reversion back from Abeir, a major disruption yet again. |
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