| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| blade020877 |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 00:04:12
Playing a purple dragon military game, 6 pc and all purple dragons. I am a cleric of torm and purple dragon. Was on a mission to escort a delegation to the dales. On the way there found out the delegation was from Prince Erzoured Obarskyr (not good guy). Orders were do not get involved with delegation, but as I am church Inquisitor too I started looking for info. To cut a long story short got to the dales, I didn’t like the way these lords looked at dealing with the dales to get them to become allies with cormyr. So as I was standing guard at meeting with dales I heard the delegation tell the dales Council to surrender to them and the one of the seats of the Council will be taken over by cormyr.
At this point I disagreed by this way for cormyr to act (that’s my opinion) against allies like this. So I knew what I had to do and deal with the consequences of my actions. I went to my commander and told him I can’t be part of the purple dragons anymore, he said no but I left anyway. The prince found out what I did and put a warrant on my head to be executed at once. So he has sent quite a hard tough group after me plus one of the head war wizard to track me down. Don’t really have a problem with , knew the consequences of my actions, but now the prince has gone after my family
At this point all I can see is my character changing gods to hoar for revenge or talos for rebellion and alignment change ( I do know about atonement)
I am lawfully good planning to change to chaotic?????
My first plan was starting a change to hoar for revenge. But dm thinks talos would be better.
So my question is what you think would be best revenge plan?? Or what path to take?
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| portose_sharpe |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 18:07:47
ya true :) who says its either or, i have it done out, the why what how and where, but as blade reads this..... limited to what i can say lol. the giant king that the pcs knows have 1000+ goblins/ orcs + another 600 frost giants, + white dragon these are the numbers the pcs know of.
and the drow are a 3500+ house strong and have 7000 + strong house,
the true involve of the demons are yet unknown to the pcs,
but it is clear that they giants forces are looking for something within the mountains.
also blades knowlegde is some what limited, the pcs are from before 100 years jump, they where put in a stasis after killing a demigod went wrong, and they appeared in the current time, blade has only been in this time for 6 months. |
| Aldrick |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 14:21:01
Why does it have to be either or? 
Cormyr could both be moving to defend the Dales, but under conditions that give them long term advantages, right?
That's how I'd play it, at least, as that seems to mesh well with 4E Cormyr's expansionist attitude. They've expanded to take much of the Dragon Coast, why shouldn't they expand north into the Dales as well? After the war, when the Dales are at their weakest, if they've laid the ground work properly they can take economic advantage of the Dales as they begin rebuilding. Having people in positions of power makes that much easier.
What I think the sticking point for Blade is whether or not King Foril and Prince Irvel know what Erzoured is up too. They may not approve of his methods, but may back the general principle. It's not inherently good or evil to lobby for advantage for your nation... just a bit opportunistic. That being said, they could throw Erzoured under the bus, and this could greatly undercut Blade's intent.
The big issue, in my mind, is less the plans Erzoured has hatched in the Dales, and more how he has dealt with Blade's PC's family. That may be crossing a red line for King Foril and Prince Irvel.
However, I'm less concerned about all that. Blade has two potential paths before his character. He can move to reconcile with the group, or he can move to achieve vengeance against Cormyr for what they've done. He seems to be more interested (as a player) in vengeance rather than reconciliation.
As a result, that's the nature of the advice I'm giving - to give suggestions to him so he can come up with ideas to move in that direction.
Thus, the Hunter's become extremely important to the plan. The intent is to use them to provoke Cormyr into actions that could be spun (correctly or incorrectly) to portray them as having expansionist ambitions in the Dales.
By taking time to use the Hunter of Vengeance to spread the word of what transpired between Cormyr and the Council, effectively giving them a political black eye, they can then move to take more aggressive and direct action against Cormyr. For example, they could kidnap Cormyrian delegates, reveal "crimes" they've committed against Dalefolk, and then have them executed publicly - if that's something that would appeal to a mob of Dalelanders. The goal is to make Dalelanders angry at Cormyr, and then take actions that would provoke Cormyr to seek "justice".
They'd likely send a group of Purple Dragons and a couple of War Wizards to find those responsible for the acts. If the Hunters are purposefully working to blend in with the common folk of the Dales, then there is a chance that it could turn into a witch hunt. All they really need is one War Wizard whose to big for himself hauling innocent Dale folk off to be "questioned". If the pot has been sufficiently stirred before this happens, it could be painted as open proof of Cormyr's aggressive stance toward the Dales.
The danger rests in things boiling over into open conflict / rebellion / war BEFORE the Giant King is dealt with. So, it's a delicate balance of trying to build up and control the pressure. Blade needs it to explode at the right moment. Too soon, and it could be disastrous, and too late or not enough and Cormyr's influence could be too deeply entrenched.
That's where Vesperin comes into play. If he can convince Vesperin to send allies across the Dragon Reach to Harrowdale, then suddenly the Dale's folk have options. At the moment they're in a position to be bullied. They don't have many options. Vesperin is an option.
Myth Drannor is also a logical ally for the Dales. I'm unsure of how the Giant King would impact Myth Drannor, but the involvement of the Drow and the Demon Princes would be of great interest to them. The Drow involvement would likely provoke Myth Drannor into a response.
Cormyr could in theory pull it's support for the Dales and let them rot. However, that in and of itself would no doubt cause bad blood between the Dales and Cormyr. (And could be spun in such a way as it paints them in a bad light.) That being said - I'm unsure how things are outlined in terms of armies - but if Giants / Demons / Drow overrun the Dales it's bad for Cormyr. So, there is still incentive to aid them even if they're not receiving direct benefit.
Finally, the Dales have a long history of aggressive neighbors attempting to annex or invade their lands. Sembia / the Shades are the most recent example, though even before Sembia fell to the Shades they've always had an expansionist policy toward the Dales - seeking to annex as many as possible. The Dales also had a long history with the Zhents attempting to do the same.
As a result, this seems to be what has forged their rather independent-minded nature. Cormyr making expansionist moves in the Dales would more-or-less be par for the course in how more powerful neighboring countries have treated them over the years. This is what makes it likely that the Dale's folk have a negative reaction to Cormyr's actions.
Of course, things could be completely different in your Realms, and even if they're not there are countless obstacles that could be put down before Blade's PC. I'm mostly trying to base my advice on what appears to be canon (4E is a bit tricky in that regard, due to the 100 year time jump and lack of information - there is a great deal of room for a DM to maneuver without being tied down... and that's a good thing), but also trying to match my advice to his intent / goal.
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| portose_sharpe |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 10:17:04
i thought it might :)
see either blade is wrong and cormyr is just defending the dales and it believes the seat is the best way to do it, but they took the seat is a not so nice way.
or he is right.
i only told you those details just so you would have the bigger picture. and currently Cormyr are fighting the giant king allies in the frost giants up north.
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| Aldrick |
Posted - 10 Apr 2013 : 06:47:29
The Giant King complicates things a bit. I suggest heading east to Vesperin after stopping off to meet with the leader of the Hunters of Vengeance.
Vesperin will be difficult to persuade to move against Cormyr. However, the Pontiff who heads the Temple of Torm's Coming in Tantras may be more than willing to send aid to the Dalelands against the Giant King. Although a lot may have changed in the past 100 years, in the past the previous Pontiff sponsored numerous different military orders devoted to Torm.
If he hears about the Giant King, the Drow, and the Demon Princes, then he will perhaps be easily persuaded to assist in mobilizing some of those Orders to assist the Dalesfolk.
The Temple of Torm's Coming should be known to your character, as it is one of the Holiest Places in the Tormite faith. It's where Torm appeared during the Time of Troubles. Hence the name of the temple: Torm's Coming. The Pontiff there no doubt has a great deal of sway over Tormites all across Faerun.
By getting Vesperin to send armed folk to defend the Dales against the Giant King, it undermines Cormyr.
The Hunters meanwhile, can be used to provoke Cormyr's hand. If Cormyr makes aggressive moves against the Dales, and effectively reveals themselves to have imperial intentions in the region, then that can not only help mobilize the Dalesfolk against Cormyr, but also Vesperin as well.
Obviously, it should go without saying that you don't want the Holy Crusade to start until after the Giant King is dealt with. Ideally, at that point, you've provoked Cormyr into moving against a weakened Dalelands. |
| portose_sharpe |
Posted - 09 Apr 2013 : 15:27:40
lol blade i am just stating what details chill out :)
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| blade020877 |
Posted - 09 Apr 2013 : 15:09:14
quote:
second cormyr didnt just walk into the dales and demand a seat on the dales council.
what do you call "surrender one of the seats of the council"???
2 wrongs dont make it right.
cormyr giving a ultimatum to the dales, give cormyr a seat or be crushed by the gaint king without them.
and yes my friends turned on the first chance they got
and was his mount i beat to 0hp
and how convenient it is that cormyr exbands its borders again thru a seat on the dales council.
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| portose_sharpe |
Posted - 09 Apr 2013 : 14:23:39
hello again, i am just filling in some details as i am aware you are kindly helping out blade020877 and his cleric pc.
first the prince in the game isnt the crown prince he has a older brother in our game ( i have changed the game from the books slighty, as all the pcs had read all the back story information and therefore new to much ) the older brother is known to be a good kind and great leader / purple dragon.
second cormyr didnt just walk into the dales and demand a seat on the dales council. what happened was, in our game there is a gaint king living in the mountains between cormyr and the dales. the pcs where sent into the gaint lair to (kill or gain information ) the saw the giant king with the drow of the dales and 2 demon lords. and they also found out the giant king had plans to attack the dales.
cormyr decided to help the dales but not for free and the not so nice prince was sent. he demanded the seat on the concil or deeping dale and half of misteldale, he said cormyr would be able to fight the giant king as they have a better army and taking the dales would block the giant king off from the dales. but the dales thought it was asking to much the agreed on giving cormyr a seat and a hand in running the dales ( this is where blade cleric saw cormyr as been to forceful and disagreed with it )
so he handed in his uniform, the other pcs tired to arrest him, but he ran away, he then returned to talk to his friends and explain why, but his friend tired to arrest him ( blade then beat him to 0hp )
its hard to give to much more information cos i know blade is reading this :) but other behind the scenes happened too.
thanks
sorry for any bad spelling.
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| blade020877 |
Posted - 08 Apr 2013 : 23:04:38
so got my holy crusade is a go.... just have to watch for the group that been sent after me now. i think leaving a false trail to follow might be me time. but would be good to capture one or two, as they do the prince's dirty work |
| portose_sharpe |
Posted - 08 Apr 2013 : 16:57:17
lol aldrick you are too smart for him, he would never come up with ideas like that. :) u going to keep me busy.
:)
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| Aldrick |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 19:00:33
Yes, I'd love if you guys kept us updated on how your game proceeds. I love reading about other peoples games in the Realms - especially when they involve a lot of intrigue.
I was scanning over the FRCG to see what other help I could provide. Here is something that may be of immediate interest in the Dalelands. Check page 109 in the FRCG.
quote:
HIDDEN HAND OF FATE
For centuries, a small cult of Hoar has dwelled in a temple fortress shrouded in the depths of the Arch Wood. The inhabitants of Archendale are known for their short tempers, grudges, arrogance, and love of intrigue - quite a few Archenfolk worship the Doombringer.
This informal order of bounty hunters and vigilantes, known as the Hunters of Vengeance, enacts what it believes to be Torm's will through the retributive hand of Hoar. (In truth, Hoar now serves Bane, who is pleased to let the misconception continue.) Priests of the Hidden Hand of Fate sponsor a number of troubadors, bounty hunters, and assassins throughout the Heartlands and coordinate a loose network of vigilantes dealing rough justice throughout the wilder stretches of the Dalelands.
Considering what they've done to your characters family, and the fact that they believe they dish out "justice" through Torm's will - I think you could find yourself some allies among this group. I'd say they'd be very interested in hearing your story, and would probably be most supportive.
You could use them to draw attention to Cormyr's imperial ambitions in the region. Using them to make accusations against Cormyr, and revealing their intentions, would be like slapping a giant. It's going to make him angry, and if the Cormyrian giant gets angry he's likely to reveal his intention by pushing back. If you can manipulate Cormyr into pushing back, you can use the independent spirit of the Dalesfolk against Cormyr...
By forcing Cormyr to reveal its hand, it'll become much easier to gain support in the Dales. Let them send Purple Dragons north to "capture and punish the vigilantes." Have them rely on the good hearts of Dalesfolk who want to be free, and have them melt into the general population of the Dales. That'll get them accusing and punishing innocent people.
Then don't forget your allies in the Triad, the Ilmateri and the servants of Bahamut. If they murder someone - whether innocent or guilty - the Ilmateri can hold them up as martyr's and accuse the Cormyrian Crown of inflicting unnecessary suffering on the free and innocent people of the Dales. The servants of Bahamut can begin to demand justice for Cormyr's crimes. It becomes difficult for Cormyr to oppose such obviously good and well-liked faiths.
Just don't let those supporting the rebel cause stay in one spot too long. They need to hang around just long enough to spread the word, cause a bit of trouble for Cormyr, and then fade back into the crowd, the forests, and the countryside. Doing what you can to provoke the giant so that it reveals its hand will ultimately work in your favor.
By moving from town to town and village to village, it gives them the chance to get pledges of support - those willing to join a potential rebellion against Cormyr. This way after you've gotten all your other pieces in place, and you're ready to pull the trigger for the Hunters of Vengeance to launch their rebellion - everything will already be in place.
The Hunters of Vengeance can work on that as you move to find allies elsewhere. I'm quite certain that you'd find allies in Elturgard, as they seem to be itching for a reason begin the type of Holy Crusade that you'd propose. Though a great deal would probably hinge on getting Iriaebor to fall into their pocket. If they can rope in Iriaebor that gives them the ability to use the High Road and the Trader's Road to move their troops against Cormyr - it effectively makes them neighbors.
These are all things that can take place in the background, relatively outside the notice of the rest of the PC's. I'd avoid a confrontation with them at virtually all costs, and when the Holy Crusade is called; I'd work toward pointing them toward the Shades. As I said, the Shades / Sembia isn't going to sit idle while Cormyr potentially implodes. Since they're your enemies just as they are their enemies, it makes sense to direct their attention in that direction.
This way if either Suzail falls or the Crown surrenders you'd be in a better position to negotiate with them. You have a common enemy, and your intentions -are- good. You may be their enemy, but you're not an out-and-out villain. This makes it palatable for them to accept a potential agreement to side with you for the good of Cormyr.
In short, you want a confrontation with the other PC's in the group to be on your terms - not theirs. And by keeping them busy dealing with the Shades / Sembia they won't have time to interfere with your plans.
Finally, keep in mind that a lot of Purple Dragons come from Noble families. You can use this to your advantage. Instead of killing them, you can capture them, then ship them off to Elturgard to be held as political prisoners. Doing this is a good way to sway some noble families to your side. |
| blade020877 |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 16:53:18
ye the rest are mindless drones lol
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| portose_sharpe |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 15:13:49
Thanks for saying you think my game sound fun :) its nice when other people can see the effort i put into my games/plots and story.
my pc told me about this thread. :)
its a good game i am enjoying it :) lots of role playing. the group has a fair mix too each with their own strong views. blades pc was the only one who disagreed with the delegation actions, which the prince knew( from his dealing with the group and he wanted to drive and wedge inbetween the group and their healer, the rest all seen the good for Cormyr in it.
:) |
| Aldrick |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 05:21:30
Oh, if everything goes well as I outlined, the Crown might surrender or seek a peace settlement.
The terms I'd shoot for would be the following:
- The exile or execution of Crown Prince Erzoured for his crimes.
- The acknowledgement of the independence and the right to freedom for the Dalelands.
- The withdrawal of all Cormyrian delegations, agents, and armed supporters from the Dalelands.
- Surrendering Proskur and the previously Cormyrian held lands along the Dragon Coast to Elturgard.
- Favorable trade agreements with Vesperin and Elturgard.
- An arrangement to keep some of the heirs that you... "liberated"... as Wards to the Church of Torm. In essence, you'd continue to hold them hostage just in case Cormyr acts up and breaks its agreement.
- An alliance agreement with Vesperin and Elturgard to give support in future Holy Crusades.
- The right to build temples to Torm in all of Cormyr's settlements.
In exchange for this, the Holy Crusade will help Cormyr re-establish order in its lands, and secure the reign of the current or next in line to the throne (so long as it isn't Crown Prince Erzoured, obviously).
If this can be done, then it means your former PC is no longer working in opposition to the other players of the group, and could potentially rejoin them. Once Elturgard has secured its newly acquired lands, and order is re-established in Cormyr... a new Holy Crusade could be declared against Sembia and Shade. Then after that, a Holy Crusade could be declared against the demon cults controlling Impiltur. After that, another one could be called to liberate Damara... and then again against the Warlocks of Vaasa... then the Moonsea...
Basically, once you call one Crusade, you kinda have to keep doing them so long as there is evil out there to be squashed.  (Not to mention, there would be a huge economic incentive to keep doing it.) |
| Aldrick |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 04:44:28
Ha. Yeah, I figured the other PC's wouldn't be thrilled about your character deciding to go rogue like that. However, I wasn't sure if they'd jump on board with you or not.
...as for your family and the old "surrender or they get it"... Well, duty to faith comes before family. Promise that you'd avenge them and see justice done.
After that this is how I'd play it. I'd go to the Dales and arrange to work with those who are opposed to Cormyr's imperial ambitions. Politicians hate being bullied like that by more powerful groups, so finding support among the Dalelanders wouldn't be difficult. Establish a quiet non-violent resistance there. Mostly, you want them to raise public objections to Cormyr's influence, and have them strive toward swaying others to their cause.
Then travel west to Elturgard. Place yourself at the mercy of the High Observer of Torm located in Elturel. Do whatever is necessary to win his support. (This would likely involve ensuring that Iriaebor falls under the sway of Elturgard.) If they take Iriaebor that gives them access to the road leading to Proskur, which is under control of Cormyr. There are certainly people in Proskur who would object to the Cormyrian Crown holding their once free city. So allies may be found there as well as along the Dragon Coast - where they are also fearful of Cormyr's constantly extending influence.
Gain allies there then head north east to Vesperin. Submit yourself to the Pontiff who heads the Temple of Torm's Coming in Tantras. He has a great deal of power and influence within Vesperin, no doubt, and if you can win his support you can mobilize Vesperin to give aid. (Especially via ship.)
When you have all your allies in place, pull the trigger. Have the Dalelanders declare independence and opposition to Cormyrian oppression. Have them issue a Declaration of Independence type of deal against Cormyr and its crown. Let this lead to open rebellion, drawing the Purple Dragons and War Wizard's north to squash it.
As they head north and engage the rebels, pull the trigger in Proskur and the Dragon Coast. They rebel against Cormyr and the Crown as well. Suddenly, now Cormyr is facing rebellion in both the north and the south.
That's when you pull the final trigger. Elturgard and Vesperin declare their support for the "free people of the Dalelands." The Holy Crusade is officially and openly declared.
Proskur should be the first to fall, putting Suzail itself in striking distance. This will draw the Purple Dragons and War Wizards back to the south, drawing pressure off the Dales, who can then begin moving their rebellion southward with the ultimate goal of taking Arabel.
Arabel has a history of rebellion against the Cormyrian Crown. There is no reason why history shouldn't repeat itself once again...
Marsember could be threatened by the Vesperin fleets, or they could move to blockade Suzail itself. A lot depends on what Cormyr is doing with it's navy.
Backing up a bit, as the Holy Crusade is declared, that's when you should strike to steal the heirs to the Throne. If you can get more than one, that's great. Divide them up. Send some to Vesperin and some to Elturgard.
As the Purple Dragons and War Wizards move south to face the Holy Crusade, that's where things get interesting. You really need some nobles in Cormyr at this point to declare their support and allegiance to the Crusade. You need Cormyr to fall into Civil War. There are nobles who oppose the crown. Find them. Secure their support.
With so many battles on so many different fronts, the best thing that you can hope for is that the crown attempts to put all the fires out at once. A concentrated effort could overwhelm your forces. I would make sure that you can dig in and hold Proskur at all costs, as well as controlling the Dragonmere.
If you can do that then the pressure on the crown would be tremendous. With the rebellion raging in the north, and victory against the Holy Crusade stagnating in the south, it becomes difficult for the crown to maintain its power. By taking control of the Dragonmere you've effectively isolated the Forest Kingdom. They'd be under strict blockade. If you can hold out for a year or two, then it'd be like laying siege to a castle. With no trade flowing in or out of Cormyr (keep in mind that Sembia are their enemies as well - so they'll find no real support there), then merchants will rebel. Food shortages will happen, peasants will rebel. If victory doesn't seem certain, nobles will continue to flip to the side of the Holy Crusade to save themselves.
If Cormyr decides to divide their forces to go after the rebels in the north, and leave some to defend themselves in the south... hit them like a hammer striking an anvil. If you can get nobles within Suzail itself on your side, victory is extremely certain. Have them betray those within the city, basically flinging open the gates for your army, and have the Holy Crusade march right into the Capital.
If you can take Suzail, it wouldn't be long till the rest of Cormyr falls as well.
The big looming question is what role would Shade/Sembia play? They wouldn't just sit idle. They'd likely encourage the rebellion, which could be both good and bad for you. Good, in the sense that it helps you in the short term. Bad, if their involvement in the rebellion is revealed as it could tar the reputation of the Holy Crusade.
If you encounter the other PC's again... then I'd appeal to their shared past and higher interests. I'd point out the need to end this quickly, and as bloodlessly as possible. Point out that the shadow of Shade still looms over all, and that the longer this goes on the more danger Cormyr is placed into. They may blame you for causing it in the first place, but that's when you fall back to your religious convictions. Elevate Torm, and the need to do the right thing - what is right, just, and good is not always what is easy or safe. Talk about the need to place someone on the throne that rules for the good of the people, and not for their own selfish interests. Take all the damning evidence that you have against Crown Prince Erzoured and lay it at their feet.
Then give them a choice to join you to help restore order... for the good of the Kingdom.
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| blade020877 |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 03:29:39
have to say i like holy Crusade idea, would be better to make good allies instead of evil ones,
to give you any update on the game, the dales gave cormyr a seat on the Council. i am left the group and on the run.
2 other purple dragons in the group, we grow up together and have been part of the same unit for day one.
i did go to them to tell them i am lefting but they tried to arrest me.
which i wasnt happy about as i have saved one and resurrected the other.... back stabbing f£$*X"!£ lol
the constal of the group has just got on with his orders and started next mission.
i am playing a new pc a smart mouth bit of a scumbag ranger (purple dragon scout)..... its lots of fun.
but in the background the dm wants me to continue playing the cleric by writing out my plans on what my actions are next to see if my action change the game for the others.
am liking that idea you gave me. dm told me the next gaame i will be thinking around handing meself in.... so i think my family is gonig too be held at knife point, so it will be surrender or less!!
have to say aldrick your a mountain of helpful information.... cheers
i think my plan is stick with torm and i would say on the road to kidnapping and holy crusade.can see king or prince exling him. going to take time and careful planning but looking forward to it
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| Aldrick |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 02:51:59
quote:
Originally posted by blade020877
the moment i turned was then cormyr asked for the dales surrender, but he dm has said i cant be torm anymore cause i disobeyed orders and left the purple dragons.
I'd bring up what I outlined about Torm's dogma to your DM. He might disagree, and if he does there isn't much you can do. You can request that you be allowed to take the Heretic of the Faith feat from Power of Faerun. This could allow you to continue with Torm.
Otherwise, I'd go with Hoar, as that seems the most appropriate substitute for a fallen Cleric of Torm looking for revenge. However, it's difficult to suggest a different course of action than what I just outlined unless you decide to go out-and-out evil... which I'm unsure how this would impact the other PC's in your group. So knowing what is going on with them, and whether or not they support the direction you're going in would be helpful. |
| Aldrick |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 02:45:13
Ah. So you're playing 4E. Alright. I just read up on the section from the 4E FRCG.
Okay, yeah - I'd agree with your DM. Releasing the prisoners and aligning with Shade would likely be viewed as treasonous by the majority of people in Cormyr. Also, by D&D standards - it would also be evil.
What is going on with the other characters in your group? Since they were / are Purple Dragons themselves... what happened to them?
My advice would be to send word to King Foril and Crown Prince Irvel. Let them know what Erzoured has done and is doing. If they defend or protect Erzoured, then all the cards are on the table. You're well within your right at this point to expect Erzoured to be stripped of his birthright and title. Likely, the appropriate sentence for him would be exile, but you could lobby for execution as well - especially if anyone in your family has been slain (and not merely kidnapped) as a result of his treachery.
If Foril and Irvel decide to protect or defend him, then you stand on firm ground to oppose them as well. My advice would be to look to the children of Irvel and Erzoured. If they have children - particularly young children - kidnap them. Errr... I mean, "take them into custody for their own protection." After all, you don't want the wickedness of their families corrupting poor innocent youth, right? You have to protect them, and what you're doing is for their own good.
Before you do anything, though, I suggest sending word to the Temple of Torm's Coming in Tantras, which is located in Vesperin (what used to be called the Vast before the independent city-states united). Contact the Pontiff there and request guidance on how to proceed, as well as support from the various militant knightly orders of Torm.
In addition to that, send word to the High Observer of Torm located in Elturel - the Capital City of the theocracy of Elturgard. Request guidance from him as well as support. If Vesperin won't aid you, then Elturgard most likely will.
Beyond that, you might also seek aid with the people of the Dalelands, as Cormyr's imperial ambitions are clearly threatening them, as well as potentially the Elves of Myth Drannor. Additionally, you might find some sympathetic allies in Impiltur. I'd send word to the Ilmatari Monastery of the Yellow Rose. They will likely be most suited to guide you in the politics of the region.
Once you've sent word to each of these individuals and groups, your path forward becomes much more clear. Your goal should be to put pressure on the King to disown and exile Crown Prince Erzoured. If he is unwilling to move against his son, then you're within your right to call upon your allies and launch a Holy Crusade against the Obarskyr family.
This is where kidnapping children comes into play. By seizing potential heirs to the Throne, you can send them to either Vesperin or Elturgard to be raised and trained. Your crusade will take time.
It doesn't matter if the children disapprove. They have a duty to the people of Cormyr, and the faith of Torm comes before even family. By controlling the heirs to the Throne, you can maneuver the various noble families in Cormyr into supporting the Holy Crusade - effectively plunging Cormyr into civil war.
By taking a "if you're not with me, then you're against me" approach with the nobility, you can promise the nobility who pledge loyalty to the Holy Crusade the lands and wealth of the noble families who continue to support the wicked rulers of the kingdom.
If you can persuade both Vesperin and Elturgard to aid you; plus you manage to plunge the kingdom into civil war, then your chances of success are fairly good. Once you take Cormyr, you can turn your attention to Sembia (to get rid of the Shades influence - this would please the merchants of Vesperin greatly), and then launch another Holy Crusade to liberate Impiltur. The Triad once lead a Holy Crusade in the past in the region to rid it of demons and other such evil spawn... doing so once again only makes sense, once you have your armies already assembled.
Anyway, if Vesperin won't aid you then I'm sure Elturgard might... I suggest reading the entries for both of those in the FRCG. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 02:08:56
In one of the latest Elminster novels, there's talk amongst the War Wizards about keeping an eye on Erzoured (aka "Baron Boldtree") and those he conspires with, for the sake of curtailing him.
Were I your character, I would look to supplant the loyalties of those War Wizards (any divine magic you can use along these lines?) in order to put Erzoured in a situation where you can isolate him and have your revenge before Cormyr's authorities can come to his aid.
He's not loved, near as I can tell, but that doesn't mean the Crown will let a Royal be slain outright.
On the deity front: perhaps you can convince your DM to let you strike at Erzoured as a means of atonement, since that fits the bit about Torm's teachings that Aldrick mentioned earlier?
Sounds like a fun game. Good luck. |
| blade020877 |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 01:50:13
we are playing 4th edition forgotten realms but 3.5 rules.
i did find out that the constals leading family member is been involved in a murder with the group that been sent after me. but no proof....
the moment i turned was then cormyr asked for the dales surrender, but he dm has said i cant be torm anymore cause i disobeyed orders and left the purple dragons. but i do think with going after my family, ( first thing was take all the money i gave them) i want revenge. i am 20 lvl cleric for the start with a dragons so my character feels its like a knife in the back. |
| blade020877 |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 01:36:29
Cheers for that very helpful detailed reply, have to say I am very much enjoying game more now with this change to my pc.
The political in the game is
King Foril: About seventy years of age, Foril Obarskyr
Has ruled for the last thirty years. He’s not the old lion that
Azoun IV was, nor does a great lawmaker like his father Azoun
V, but he is a great strategist, statesman, and administrator.
In his youth, he trained with the War Wizards and
the Purple Dragons. Now he leaves the fighting to others,
understanding that he is too important to his country to
act recklessly. Foril is also well aware that he is reaching
the end of his reign.
Crown Prince Irvel: Foril’s son, Irvel Obarskyr, shows
a lot of the old boldness of his famed ancestors, which
could portend interesting times for the country.
Prince Erzoured Obarskyr: Foril’s nephew is a black-hearted
schemer who wants the throne so badly he can taste it.
He plans to do away with Irvel so he can be named the
new crown prince. To that end, he has made several secret
contacts in Sembia, Netheril, and even Thay.
We were doing lots of mission for erzoured . And he made us fight each other to try belittling us. The constal of the group made enemy with one of his leading family member that is good friends with the prince, so that made things interesting for while. (Do make for great role play).
Well why dm said talos because one of my plans for revenge was to make allies with sembia or shade.
Plan 1 break free the prisoners in wheloon which would cause cormyr drop resources in to finding them, plus I could start a rebellion with the prisoners
Plan 2 destroy the portal gates in cormyr to cut of support to towns and cities
Plan 3 make cormyr give up the dales seat
by robbing supplies or stopping troops gonig up to it
All this is to keep the purple dragons and war wizard busy as my mean aim is the prince and take him out
The dm said if I release the prisoners I am going evil… so I am not sure what to do
|
| Aldrick |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 01:16:22
Just for clarity here is the dogma of Torm.
quote:
"Salvation may be found through service. Every failure of duty diminishes Torm and every success adds to his luster. Strive to maintain law and order. Obey your masters with alert judgement and anticipation. Stand ever alert against corruption. Strike quickly and forcefully against rot in the hearts of mortals. Bring painful, quick death to traitors. Question unjust laws by suggesting improvement or alternatives, not additional laws. Your fourfold duties are to faith, family, masters, and all good beings of Faerun."
The bold part is what is important to this situation it seems. When your character saw the delegation mistreating the Dalelanders your duty to your faith superseded your duty to your mortal masters. When you realized your mortal masters were wicked, it then became your duty to strike them down. When they went after your family to punish you, then that is just even more reason to destroy them utterly.
Torm is not like Helm. Helm would expect you to obey your orders no matter what they were. Torm demands that you maintain "alert judgement" of the orders you're given, and if you realize the orders you've been given lead to wickedness and evil... then you have a duty to your faith to stand opposed to them.
If your DM wishes to disagree with this, then I'd encourage you to ask for the heretic of the faith feat. Your alignment should probably shift from Lawful Good to Lawful Neutral if you intended to be less-than-merciful to your enemies. |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 01:11:33
I don't have much information regarding how exactly your character acted. But from what you gave us, I think that's a case of a Lawful Good person (you) disagreeing with a Lawful Neutral, or maybe other Lawful Good party. That can happen. I don't see him changing faith because of that. The revenge angle, though, is interesting. I would say your character's plan would befit a Lawful Good Hoar worshipper.
Just because you're Lawful, it doesn't mean you have to agree with the local authorities. I don't think Talos fits your idea at all. I don't have the same info your DM does, though, and his Realms may be different from mine.
Edit: Aldrick pretty much ninja'ed me, and explained it better! |
| Aldrick |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 01:05:20
First, this sounds like a fantastically awesome game - loads of fun.
I agree with you, though. I think switching to Hoar makes more sense than Talos. Your DM may have a specific reason for trying to push you in that direction, though.
However, I think either could work in theory.
Talos is primarily seen as a deity of destruction, particularly in the form of natural disasters (earthquakes, floods, massive forest fires, etc.). However, he is also the deity of rebellion. He is also a very chaotic deity. By and large, though, the rebellion aspect of his portfolio really isn't played up. If that is your DM's reason for suggesting Talos, I'd counter with Cyric and Ghaunadaur as being better suited for rebels more bent on a Chaotic Evil alignment.
Cyric as a deity of intrigue, murder, strife, lies, and deception is very suited to such a role. This is more likely for a human, who probably hasn't heard of Ghaunadaur - who associates himself more with the Underdark and the Drow in particular. (However, he openly accepts any species into his faith, and he is a deity of outcasts and rebels.)
That being said, it's a bit of a jump for me to imagine a faithful cleric of Torm deciding to jump ship to a chaotic evil deity. I mean, that's a pretty extreme jump - to go from a Lawful Good deity focused on duty, honor, and loyalty to a Chaotic Evil deity of murder, rebellion, and strife.
Hoar seems like a nice middle ground. He's a deity of revenge and poetic justice - a literal 'eye for an eye' sort of deity. He is also Lawful Neutral, so this is a much less extreme jump for your character. So, you'd most likely transition to just a Neutral or Lawful Neutral alignment - rather than a Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil alignment.
Also, don't forget that Torm gives clear instructions in his dogma about how you order your priorities: faith, family, masters, and all good beings on Toril. He also commands you stand alert against corruption, and to "strike quickly and forcefully against the rot in the heart of mortals."
I don't see any reason why you should abandon Torm. If anything, all that has happened is just proven that you need to begin a holy crusade against the crown Prince, and possibly dislodge the entire Obarskyr family from power.
Instead of abandoning Torm, I'd suggest sending word east to Tantras in the Vast. That is where the head of the Tormite Church is located. Contact the Churches of Ilmater and Tyr as well. Then reach out to various noble families that you think might support you against the crown... and proceed to plunge Cormyr into civil war while leading a holy crusade to dislodge the Obarskyr family from power. (Or alternatively, seat a more palatable Obarskyr on the throne.)
I could perhaps give better advise if I had a bit more understanding of the exact political situation. For example, who is currently the king of Cormyr in your Realms, and does he support what the crown prince is doing? |
| blade020877 |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 00:50:27
living well can be a boring life too.
revenge is more fun when it is cold and calculating |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 06 Apr 2013 : 00:40:24
The best revenge is living well. |
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