| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 06 Aug 2012 : 06:53:23
Time? It's one of the most important facets of life, of existence. And nearly all facets have been covered by so many deities, lesser and greater alike. So why not Time? Or is Mystra the sort of unofficial bearer of this? Or Amaunator? If so, why not make it official then?
Perhaps Ao deems Time so important to the preservation of Balance that he's keeping it himself? ...so that if or when his crystal sphere teeters on the edge of Imbalance, he can readily manipulate Time and reset the whole CS to an era of relative balance, thereby sparing him enough time to prevent the future cataclysm that would threaten his own creation? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 13:28:24
And he looks cool, too. When rendered in 3D, plus some tweaks of his tattoos, he'd look excellent. As for his powers, they are destructive enough. Though I haven't seen their full potential, because even early in the series, he's broken the taboo, thereby limiting the use of his abilities. |
| Sightless |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 13:00:14
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Time is a matter of perception. And perception is encompassed by the realm of Psionics. Could the God of Psionics, Aupensser, be the God of Time as well?
No, time isn't simply perception. if it was then cellular decay wouldn't be a problem. And as far as gravity is concerned, it's a very real affect, it's the cause that's somewhat confusing, although the research on electromagnetics is bareing the greatest fruit on that, as everything in the universe has some level of an electromag field. some just stronger than others. There seems to be a strong co-varying relationship to field strngth and particle mass. |
| Sightless |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 12:55:45
In our games we had Jaunadozor a lwaful neutral God of time, who was one of two beings directly under Ao, only the gods new of their existence however. and in the case of the above could make requests for the use of powers from his portfolio. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 12:35:46
There's a god-like being who's in charge of the space-time continuum in the series The World Reflected in the Eyes of a Girl Looking Up at the Heavens. Don't be fooled by the ridiculous title. That animated series is really good, rife with interesting characters and wonderfully rendered magical and tech battles. It's based on the OVA Munto, though the animation is significantly better that its predecessor. [The movie was released before the series.]
Anyway, the said being is called Gass, an "Outsider," a "supposed" impartial guardian of the space-time continuum, who makes sure no one from the kingdoms of Heavens ever cross over to Earth. He is bound by the rule of impartiality, made manifest by his tattoos. Breaking that rule means the destruction of his own body.
He'd be a nice model for a Torilian God of Time, I think. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 12:12:50
quote:
Originally posted by LastStand
Time feels very much to me like a portfolio Selune should hold. The passage of Selune and her 'tears' has been prominent aspect in the Realms and, furthermore, one of the Moonmaiden's domains is change - two things that could be associated with time?
I might just be bias as well =)
If you base it on the passage of a huge celestial body (moon), then might as well pick the bigger one (sun), Lathander/Amaunator.
I still like the concept of Time being a shared portfolio... of Mystra, Amaunator, Selune, and Auppenser. |
| Razz |
Posted - 16 Aug 2012 : 18:19:55
I remember now. They has given Grumbar the Time DOMAIN not portfolio. Never mind LOL |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Aug 2012 : 14:49:34
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by Kno
pOrtfolios of Grumbar: elemental earth, changelesness, solidity, oaths, earth elementalists
I doubt Grumbar can fly, like time
'Changeleness' now there is an interesting portfolio. Does it suggest Grumbar would oppose 'time' marching on?
I would expect it refers more to remaining constant, despite the passage of time -- much like a mountain range will appear unchanging, even across elven or dragon generations. |
| Bakra |
Posted - 16 Aug 2012 : 14:27:16
quote:
Originally posted by Kno
pOrtfolios of Grumbar: elemental earth, changelesness, solidity, oaths, earth elementalists
I doubt Grumbar can fly, like time
'Changeleness' now there is an interesting portfolio. Does it suggest Grumbar would oppose 'time' marching on? |
| Bakra |
Posted - 16 Aug 2012 : 14:25:05
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Perception is only one aspect of time. IE- how we percieve time to pass. Time itself encompassas far more than that. I think Lathander(Aumanator if you prefer) would be the best for a god of time, seeing how his portfolio encompassas renewal and dawn, too things that are connected to time.
Chauntea may have an interest in the Time portfolio. Or an interest in which Power(s) are stewards to the portfolio.
Oooo! I like that idea.
You could suggest that Chauntea herself oversees the "terrestial" conception of Time -- as in the elemental nature of time impacting until the world. Whereas Jergal, like in my earlier suggestion, oversees the mortal conception of Time.
Yippers.
 |
| Kno |
Posted - 16 Aug 2012 : 10:45:12
pOrtfolios of Grumbar: elemental earth, changelesness, solidity, oaths, earth elementalists
I doubt Grumbar can fly, like time |
| Razz |
Posted - 15 Aug 2012 : 18:26:28
I just came to a realization. (and if it's been said here on the thread, I may have skipped it)
Doesn't GRUMBAR have Time in his portfolio? I believe it says so in his entry in "Faiths&Avatars". |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Aug 2012 : 16:43:36
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Perception is only one aspect of time. IE- how we percieve time to pass. Time itself encompassas far more than that. I think Lathander(Aumanator if you prefer) would be the best for a god of time, seeing how his portfolio encompassas renewal and dawn, too things that are connected to time.
Chauntea may have an interest in the Time portfolio. Or an interest in which Power(s) are stewards to the portfolio.
Oooo! I like that idea.
You could suggest that Chauntea herself oversees the "terrestial" conception of Time -- as in the elemental nature of time impacting until the world. Whereas Jergal, like in my earlier suggestion, oversees the mortal conception of Time. |
| Bakra |
Posted - 15 Aug 2012 : 14:53:16
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Perception is only one aspect of time. IE- how we percieve time to pass. Time itself encompassas far more than that. I think Lathander(Aumanator if you prefer) would be the best for a god of time, seeing how his portfolio encompassas renewal and dawn, too things that are connected to time.
Chauntea may have an interest in the Time portfolio. Or an interest in which Power(s) are stewards to the portfolio. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 Aug 2012 : 07:44:03
Yes. I'd hate to think designers are all working on things we don't like to discuss.  |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 23:43:20
Matt, the only solution I can see to that problem is for designers to stop working on those things- but that would be tragic, LOL! |
| Irennan |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 22:25:58
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Gravity is a theory that is accepted because we haven't come to understand fully the tiniest building blocks of reality and how they truly interact.
For example: why one "element" has greater mass than another, but not always greater density.
Hells, we don't even know really why things stick together beyond our primitive grasp of the four forces. Some folks shout "Gravity!" while others are starting to shout "Slow Fusion" or "Charged Magnetism" or whatever.
Our use of time as a unit of measure isn't even accurate anyway because we haven't learned how to understand how large celestial bodies influence what we use as a unit of measure...and THAT is why we have to fix our time devices (even our "second" isn't accurate).
I'm sorry for the side-track...sometimes I can't shut my mouth over something that I'm passionate about. I promise to keep my trap shut now! 
I have some replies, but this scroll isn't the place for them. So, would you mind if I sent you a PM? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 22:21:21
Talking about stuff displays an interest in said subject matter amongst the fanbase, which justifies anything you may be working on. 
Also, what we are doing is similar to what the 'crunch guys' have to do when working on fantasy games. 'Magic' falls apart in an RPG or story if it is inconsistent - it needs to have its own set of rules and logic (Harry Potter being one of the worst examples of an inconsistent system... despite my love for the books). This thread just digs a bit deeper into the 'guts' of D&D (into the theoretical 'over-cosmology').
As for the subject, I get the idea that mortals have something even the gods do not possess (a common fantasy trope). Their 'free will' (or whatever) gives them the ability to override prophesy (pre-destination) and create their own path. I think this somehow allows mortals to 'mess with' time a little bit more then deities (it could just come down to gods being more cautious - they are connected to too many things on too many levels for continuity-changes to NOT affect them). |
| Matt James |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 22:09:41
uhg... can you guys stop talking about cool stuff that freelance game designers may or may not be working on? 
Kidding. I have some fun stuff on this topic that we can discuss shortly. Nothing that will make you want to pull your nether-hair out. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 22:03:43
Perception is only one aspect of time. IE- how we percieve time to pass. Time itself encompassas far more than that. I think Lathander(Aumanator if you prefer) would be the best for a god of time, seeing how his portfolio encompassas renewal and dawn, too things that are connected to time. |
| Kno |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 09:18:39
perception is encompassed by Helm |
| Dennis |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 06:44:11
Time is a matter of perception. And perception is encompassed by the realm of Psionics. Could the God of Psionics, Aupensser, be the God of Time as well? |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 03:17:26
Gravity is a theory that is accepted because we haven't come to understand fully the tiniest building blocks of reality and how they truly interact.
For example: why one "element" has greater mass than another, but not always greater density.
Hells, we don't even know really why things stick together beyond our primitive grasp of the four forces. Some folks shout "Gravity!" while others are starting to shout "Slow Fusion" or "Charged Magnetism" or whatever.
Our use of time as a unit of measure isn't even accurate anyway because we haven't learned how to understand how large celestial bodies influence what we use as a unit of measure...and THAT is why we have to fix our time devices (even our "second" isn't accurate).
I'm sorry for the side-track...sometimes I can't shut my mouth over something that I'm passionate about. I promise to keep my trap shut now!
For the Forgotten Realms though, I LOVE having characters fiddle with time by time travel!
The campaign I ran longest had a large dose of this sort of action, and I think the Realms hit dead on when they wouldn't allow magical items through time.
|
| Irennan |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 01:35:23
quote:
Einstein has been proven "not quite right" on several levels. A theory is simply an idea how things work...and as of yet, nothing has been even close to beginning real work on proving or disproving Einstein's ideas on time because we don't have the technology yet.
Relativity works well enough to be usable in tech, considering that -for example- the GPS calculation of the position uses time corrected with two time dilation effects, both of which derive from said theory (and GPS does its job).
That isn't to say that it is axiomatically true, but it works for many applications. |
| drkissinger1 |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 01:19:17
To hold dominion over time is, in my opinion, too much power for any FR-style god to possess. |
| Aravine |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 00:38:18
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Time does exist and can be affected. Checkout a certain Mr Einstein's theory of relativity.
As for time in the realms, well I don't think a god should have power over it, let Ao have it. I'm not against time travelling spells though.
Einstein has been proven "not quite right" on several levels. A theory is simply an idea how things work...and as of yet, nothing has been even close to beginning real work on proving or disproving Einstein's ideas on time because we don't have the technology yet.
I agree with you that a god shouldn't have any power over time...it is better for there to be a God "Watchdog" maybe over time; but not the true controller. "Guardian" of time would be best.
Just thought I'd point something out. Gravity ois also a "theory". it is also universally accepted |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 14 Aug 2012 : 00:30:27
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Time does exist and can be affected. Checkout a certain Mr Einstein's theory of relativity.
As for time in the realms, well I don't think a god should have power over it, let Ao have it. I'm not against time travelling spells though.
Einstein has been proven "not quite right" on several levels. A theory is simply an idea how things work...and as of yet, nothing has been even close to beginning real work on proving or disproving Einstein's ideas on time because we don't have the technology yet.
I agree with you that a god shouldn't have any power over time...it is better for there to be a God "Watchdog" maybe over time; but not the true controller. "Guardian" of time would be best. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 13 Aug 2012 : 22:50:48
My, my! You and I DO think alike! I've not "studied" Cayce, per se, but I'm somewhat familiar with his work. Most of my delving into the esoteric realm has been self-taught and/or through some very personal experiences with the subject. That "Big Bang" they talk about was really more like pop-corn popping..... But I digress. I like the way you tie the cosmologies together, and it's pretty consistant- something that WotC could use a bit more of in that area, I think.
Also- considering your ideas about science and magic- re-read the second line in my siggy- that says it all! (And ties in nicely with your use of Marvel-verse notions, I might add!!) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 18:44:17
Ao, or someone higher. In Marvel comics The Beyonder is a being so insanely powerful that he over-powered all of the Marvel Universe's cosmic beings including eternity - the very embodiment of the universe itself. That means he is just as powerful as everything within a single universe combined (which gets explained at some point, but that's another story).
When he goes to kill Dr.Doom, he realizes he can't. The Doom he meets has no knowledge of him, yet he has met Doom in the past (which is why he hated him). That means Doom will meet the past version of the Beyonder at some point in Doom's own future, so the Beyonder's hands were tied - he could not create a time paradox around his own actions.
In D&D terms, The Beyonder is way more powerful then Ao; he is at least on-par with Ao's boss, and probably higher. And the bottom line was, even he could not 'muck with time'. Travel through it, yes. Make major changes that would affect himself, NO. I often find myself falling back on Marvel-lore to fill gaps in D&D lore because they have run into many of the 'cosmic' problems/incongruities already. Time is obviously one of the most basic forces/planes that the universe is built upon.
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
MT, you seem to have an idea of time that is very much in keeping with some of the esoteric studies I've done on the subject. If people only knew just how fluid and elastic time really is.... This is, however, another reason I think the FR should have a deity of time. It IS like a "river" or perhaps like the tides of the ocean- the water that flows in is not always the same water that flowed out previously, but it returns to the same point over and over again. Time is cyclic, and the universe itself points to this. A deity of time would understand this, and govern that process. And I also remember the temporal plane you mentioned in Planescape- there was, in fact, a "river of time" that one could use for time-travel into any point of existence there.
Not only is it a river, it is a winding river where the loops some times come quite close to each other.
Almost like an energy/sine wave.
If you understand how radio waves work, you can kinda picture how time works (and how some very weird crap can happen occasionally). Our conscience mind is only able to handle looking at a single spot on the wave, whereas our subconscious can travel up-and-down the path (meeting other subconsciences).
I suppose you have studied Edgar Cayce as well?
Scientists study Einstein and Hawkins. Paranormalists study Edgar Cayce and others. Its only when you study both do you realize just how much they agree with each other. The only difference between science and magic is that with science you have the math equation. 'Magic' is nothing more then scientific theory (where you know something works a certain way, but you haven't figured out its equation yet).
Its all about the math. And the ancients were much better at math then we. How many of our modern sciences have grown out of the teachings of the 'magi'? Chemistry from Alchemy. Astronomy from Astrology. Ask any physicist and he tell you "the answers to all the mysteries of the universe lie in the stars".
Hmph... seems to me I've heard of other wisemen 'following the stars'.
In D&D/FR science is like the Weave, and magic is like the Shadoweave. Magic is all the 'spaces between the knowledge' where the mysteries still lie.
Anyhow, I've digressed quite a bit from the OT - sorry. |
| Arcanus |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 17:29:51
Time does exist and can be affected. Checkout a certain Mr Einstein's theory of relativity.
As for time in the realms, well I don't think a god should have power over it, let Ao have it. I'm not against time travelling spells though. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 09 Aug 2012 : 23:01:57
That was not meant as an attack, so please don't misinterpret. By "narrow view", I meant simply that- that it is a definition that is very narrow in scope and does not take into account that time does, indeed "flow" through a succession of events. Time is not simply "now", because if it was, now would cease to exist as soon as time progressed beyond that instant. It doesn't. How do we know this? Human memory, for one thing. We can remember any event in our past because it happened at a certain moment or set of moments in time. That memory is a (semi)permanent record that the event occured, and proves that that moment existed. We can say the same of any event that has ever been video-recorded, written of, or any other method of keeping track of events. They happened at different points IN TIME, and we have means of recording when those events occured. Time as a concept may be mathematically difficult to prove, but the very fact that we can imagine and attempt to understand it at all shows that it is "real".
MT, you seem to have an idea of time that is very much in keeping with some of the esoteric studies I've done on the subject. If people only knew just how fluid and elastic time really is.... This is, however, another reason I think the FR should have a deity of time. It IS like a "river" or perhaps like the tides of the ocean- the water that flows in is not always the same water that flowed out previously, but it returns to the same point over and over again. Time is cyclic, and the universe itself points to this. A deity of time would understand this, and govern that process. And I also remember the temporal plane you mentioned in Planescape- there was, in fact, a "river of time" that one could use for time-travel into any point of existence there. |
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