| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 06 Jun 2012 : 02:09:26
You are sentenced to life imprisonment, and the Ultimate Judge, in his twisted mercy, allows you to choose a prison from a hundred options... which one would you never ever pick?
-----
I would choose almost anything except these:
Stygia – the fifth layer of the Nine Hells where the archdevil Levistus is imprisoned.
City of Forever - a "place" that is "outside" the bounds of time and where a Dreadlord was once imprisoned; featured in A Darkness in Sethanon by Raymond E. Feist.
Hell's Asshole – a jail featured in The Night Angel Trilogy where people are usually left to “feed” on each other.
City Jail of Rhiminee – a magically warded prison in The Nightrunner series by Llyn Flewelling.
That prison in Thay which once served as Xingax's laboratory. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 01 Aug 2012 : 01:30:22
quote:
The Sage
In terms of continuity, I don't think it matters when Soth returns to Krynn in the DL timeline. Time works differently in the Mists, so he could be gone five minutes from Krynn, yet spend decades in the Dark Domains.
The chronology of Ravenloft is most slippery and difficult to correlate with the timelines established in other D&D worlds; there are very few points of reference where they intersect, and even these appear to be self-contradictory in nearly every instance.
I happily accept the explanation that timeflow in the Demiplane of Dread is isolated from that of every other place it has touched. This easily explains how Ravenloft's skeletal history has a shallow depth of only a few centuries yet the threat of the Mists has been observed (in other places) for untold millennia. A Ravenloft out of timesync with the rest of the planes means that - for all we know - it can sporadically "skip" over large periods of time or even bounce around between "past" and "future" coordinates without any understandable pattern. I wouldn't be surprised if the ravenous reach of the Mists could affect travelers within the mysterious Demiplane of Time (Temporal Prime) itself.
The logical consequence of an entire Demiplane floating in time is that people, places, events, and information which could cross the boundary could be deposited at apparently random periods of time (just as they can be deposited at apparently random places and worlds). For all we know, Lord Soth might be trapped on Ravenloft for half an eternity.
The perverse nature (or powers) of the Demiplane - from which escape is near impossible - might even go so far as to somehow duplicate or replicate Lord Soth, since he seems like a fungible sort of fellow who fits into this Demiplane so very, very well. There might be two (or more) Lord Soths in the D&D multiverse, one trapped on Ravenloft, another trapped in Dragonlance novels. A variant possibility is that the Mists might "visit" Krynn frequently or for extended periods, somehow anchored in part to Lord Soth's realm. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 31 Jul 2012 : 02:06:36
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
When they placed Lord Soth there it actually pissed me off...
He got out, though. I don't know the details, but he made it out.
When Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman returned to TSR, there were reports of them saying that, as far as they were concerned, Soth never left Krynn for RAVENLOFT. To make their point, they even made Soth an "extra" in the novel Dragons of Summer Flame, released in 1995. This created a lot of unnecessary confusion as to where Soth really was.
The official word from Wizards of the Coast is that Soth definitely did enter RAVENLOFT after the events of the novel Test of the Twins. And he definitely returned to Krynn in the autumn of 752 BC, during the events of the novel Spectre of the Black Rose, written by James Lowder. The in-game reasons behind Soth's escape, however, are nebulous and open to reader interpretation. Many interpreted it as a consequence of the fact that Soth was no longer feeling imprisoned and the Dark Powers decided to let go of their dull toy.
Also, although Soth definitely left RAVENLOFT in 752 BC, it has not been definitively stated when he reappeared on Krynn. Time flows strangely in RAVENLOFT when compared to other worlds and Soth could easily have reappeared in Dargaard Keep mere moments after he left it. Since then, Soth briefly appeared in other DRAGONLANCE novels before the authors of that setting eventually killed him off. In 3e products, you can find references to this character when the name "The Black Rose" is mentioned.
From James Lowder's own words on the Worlds of D&D forums:-
"It was always my intention to have Soth's stay in Ravenloft a temporary one, and there was no pressure from WotC for me to plot the end of Spectre a certain way. I was on board with the idea of Soth returning to Krynn from the start.
When Knight of the Black Rose was planned, Margaret and Tracy were on bad terms with TSR, not working on anything with the company. As RL fiction line editor, I offered them both the chance to have input on the project, and Tracy the chance to write the book, but they declined. I understand why.
But I made it clear to them at the time Knight was proposed that I would do all I could to make certain Soth was not changed in such a way that he would be undermined when, or if, they came back to TSR to work on the DL line. When I could not find a writer who was capable of writing Knight without monkeying with Soth, the head of the department (Mary Kirchoff again) stepped in and asked me to take the assignment. It was an assignment I accepted somewhat reluctantly, I must admit. But it worked out for the best, I think.
In terms of continuity, I don't think it matters when Soth returns to Krynn in the DL timeline. Time works differently in the Mists, so he could be gone five minutes from Krynn, yet spend decades in the Dark Domains.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder" |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 23:43:54
Eventually. And ended up ticking off Tahkisis to the point she made him mortal- then killed him. Or so I understand. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 23:22:33
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
When they placed Lord Soth there it actually pissed me off...
He got out, though. I don't know the details, but he made it out. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 23:09:49
And let's not forget Azalin or Lord Soth (Whoops. Sorry, Dalor, missed that ref on the first read through.). |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 23:06:32
I forgot about that source! |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 23:00:11
Ravenloft's Children of Night present many more than that including the Bardic Lich, Andres Duvall. Which may have been speculated on before. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 22:50:03
Well, The problem with that is that we know who at least two of the "Lords" are. Strahd is one, and there is a female paladin mentioned in the old Encyclopedia Magica who is one as well. (Her name escapes me ATM.) Each of the Lords is more or less all-powerful withing their home domain, much like gods. So.... *shrugs* |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 18:23:32
I only really liked Ravenloft as a Demi-Plane devoted only to Strahd.
When they placed Lord Soth there it actually pissed me off... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 18:18:26
Here I was thinking about 'super prisons' in literature and what-not. Some comic/scify even have planet prisons, which are usually hell-holes.
So I was thinking a prison-plane for D&D, and then I was like, "that wouldn't work" - comics and movies have used the astral/ethereal as prisons, and even the negative (now shadow) plane, but that isn't all that great. If you imprison a very powerful being there, he/she/it will eventually get out.
So then I thought, how about a world, but one that has its own closed plane? One in which creatures can be sent, but they can't get out. A one-way sort of trip.
And then it hit me - RAVENLOFT. 
We had one all along. What if Ravenloft was built for this purpose? What if the 'Dark Powers' aren't deities/whatever, but rather, enigmatic outsiders who are simply running the prison? Perhaps they are invisible, and watch the Domains of Dread from the Shadows (appropriate, eh?) They would have some sort of secret chamber where they meet and report-in - a place where they can see most of the world on giant screens (similar to what Telemont was doing in RotAW). A 'command center', of sorts.
If I ever ran a Ravenloft campaign, that would be the 'finale'. In order to escape, the PCs would have to find these 'hidden lords' and get into the command center, and from there escape.
EDIT: And my apologies if anyone has already mentioned Ravenloft - I haven't read the entire thread. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 17:43:51
quote:
Originally posted by jazirian reborn
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I would never pick Void...the great nothing where you are always doomed to be the only being you will ever be in contact with again.
Good Faerun parallel.
Yeah , i think alone suffering can be a real issue , particularly for real life parallels with PoWs and prisoners.
Add in a bit of illusonary Chinese style water tortures or better. And the occassional "dream" spell to give you fleeting hope.
The best version of Hell i saw in a movie was a massive long line that teleports you to the end once you get to the top in an infinite loop , with the most annoying classic hits songs played.
I hate waiting endlessly in lines, thats gonna make you beg for mercy more than being alone.
That sounds truly horrible. I wonder if anyone deserves such a torturous afterlife. |
| jazirian reborn |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 11:16:39
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I would never pick Void...the great nothing where you are always doomed to be the only being you will ever be in contact with again.
Good Faerun parallel.
Yeah , i think alone suffering can be a real issue , particularly for real life parallels with PoWs and prisoners.
Add in a bit of illusonary Chinese style water tortures or better. And the occassional "dream" spell to give you fleeting hope.
The best version of Hell i saw in a movie was a massive long line that teleports you to the end once you get to the top in an infinite loop , with the most annoying classic hits songs played.
I hate waiting endlessly in lines, thats gonna make you beg for mercy more than being alone.
|
| Dennis |
Posted - 28 Jul 2012 : 07:54:40
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Anyone saw the film Lockout? MS-1 looks like a horrible prison. And I don't know which is worse, being put in the casket dreaming your entire life till you die, or being awakened after a couple years only to see yourself become a doddering, insane husk of a person.
I really want to see this movie. How was it??
'Twas good, overall. Guy Pearce pulled it off, so did most of the cast. The main villains were incredibly believable too - a 'wise,' calculating man, and a psycho.
The US gov't, in cooperation with a billion-dollar company, constructed a prison in space to 'lock out' the country's worst criminals. The convicts are drugged and put into 'sleep' for years, depending on the sentence. Some of them are used as lab rats. The psycho prisoner, by luck and unexpected cleverness, somehow managed to have the caskets holding all prisoners open, thereby 'awakening' them all...
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And while it's certainly not the most horrible prison, everything I've been learning about Dreadhold from my current reading of the "Draconic Prophecies" trilogy in the EBERRON saga, has me thinking that this is certainly one of the worst places in the various TSR/Wizards' worlds, that a prisoner could be sent to.
I have to agree. The fact that it took a huge storm dragon to breach its magic-enhanced walls speaks of how difficult it is to escape from its bleak, horrible 'embrace.'
----
The Pits of Hathsin from Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy. Not the most horrible, but not something most prisoners would prefer spending their miserable existence in either. What makes it really dangerous is not the place itself, but the strict conditions the prisoners have to live by. They have to get atium (a precious metal favored by Mistborn) from the very walls of the cave (where it grows, like stalactites) using their bare hands as chisel in order to live a couple of weeks more. No atium spells death. And they have to watch their back all the time for fear that someone else would kill them and take their atium. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 20 Jul 2012 : 23:38:16
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The 'Phantom Zone' (imagine floating through space in some stupid giant mirror). 
With or without the imprisoned General Zod?
quote:
The Cube, Negative Zone Alpha, The Vault - all from Marvel Comics.
Use Prison 42 in the Negative Zone. 
And I'd be weary of the Vault. It's been prone to nearly as many escaping supervillains as Arkham Asylum.
Sage, I'd second that bit about #42 in the Negative Zone. a prison specifically created to hold people with superhuman powers- and each cell is taylored to its occupant. Yikes! But yeah, being imprisoned in the Phantom Zone would suck, too. More so if you're in there with Zod..... |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 20 Jul 2012 : 13:56:05
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Anyone saw the film Lockout? MS-1 looks like a horrible prison. And I don't know which is worse, being put in the casket dreaming your entire life till you die, or being awakened after a couple years only to see yourself become a doddering, insane husk of a person.
I really want to see this movie. How was it?? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 20 Jul 2012 : 02:21:53
Ah. Like what Szass Tam did to his treacherous apprentice, Frodyne. Though it wasn't just simulation. It was real. |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 19 Jul 2012 : 13:29:24
What about the one from the Twilight Zone(new version), I cant remember which episode is it, but its about a guy who killed the man who he had cheated with his wife, and the authorities trapped his mind in a sort of simulation that constantly killed him... |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 Jul 2012 : 06:54:53
Anyone saw the film Lockout? MS-1 looks like a horrible prison. And I don't know which is worse, being put in the casket dreaming your entire life till you die, or being awakened after a couple years only to see yourself become a doddering, insane husk of a person. |
| slayer |
Posted - 18 Jul 2012 : 12:42:54
I hear Pandemonium is nice this time of year! |
| skychrome |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 02:24:33
In the realms: The Depths of Madness as written by ESdB.
In the non realms:
1) The Cube
2) The space ship from Event Horizon
*shivers* |
| Dennis |
Posted - 18 Jun 2012 : 04:32:42
The Simbul is so powerful and versatile that she could even transform into an inanimate object (spoon, fork, plate...). What if a lesser wizard attempts it (just for the fun of it) and ends up stuck in such form? Imagine being a spoon for the rest of your miserable existence... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 05:04:10
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He was in Hell. I think that's more than enough explanation. Even The Simbul barely survived.
Who was in Hell? Halaster tried his ritual in Undermountain I thought?
He attempted to perform a powerful ritual in Undermountain and died, true. But his madness was more to blame for that. And such madness had been amplified after being infused with so much magic by Mystra herself and after exposing himself to the cancerous energy of Avernus in the foolish attempt to save the doddering Old Sage. [Mystra 'cured' him, but 'twas only temporary. The pronounced madness, it seemed, could not be healed by divine nor arcane means.]
Where is it said Halaster's mental state had anything to do with Hell though?
I'm wondering about that, myself, especially since Ed said Hally was more stable after that.
Indeed. Mystra removed Shar's influence from him. Shar had essentially made him insane because she exposed him to the use of the Shadow Weave and other ways that drove him to the point of becoming mentally unstable.
After Mystra cured him, and up to the time of his death, he was mostly sane. But we also knew that Halaster could slip back into his periods of insanity every now and then... but it was nothing compared to what he experienced before the purging of the influence from Shar. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 04:35:42
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He was in Hell. I think that's more than enough explanation. Even The Simbul barely survived.
Who was in Hell? Halaster tried his ritual in Undermountain I thought?
He attempted to perform a powerful ritual in Undermountain and died, true. But his madness was more to blame for that. And such madness had been amplified after being infused with so much magic by Mystra herself and after exposing himself to the cancerous energy of Avernus in the foolish attempt to save the doddering Old Sage. [Mystra 'cured' him, but 'twas only temporary. The pronounced madness, it seemed, could not be healed by divine nor arcane means.]
Where is it said Halaster's mental state had anything to do with Hell though?
I'm wondering about that, myself, especially since Ed said Hally was more stable after that. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 02:15:14
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He was in Hell. I think that's more than enough explanation. Even The Simbul barely survived.
Who was in Hell? Halaster tried his ritual in Undermountain I thought?
He attempted to perform a powerful ritual in Undermountain and died, true. But his madness was more to blame for that. And such madness had been amplified after being infused with so much magic by Mystra herself and after exposing himself to the cancerous energy of Avernus in the foolish attempt to save the doddering Old Sage. [Mystra 'cured' him, but 'twas only temporary. The pronounced madness, it seemed, could not be healed by divine nor arcane means.]
Where is it said Halaster's mental state had anything to do with Hell though? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 01:47:09
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He was in Hell. I think that's more than enough explanation. Even The Simbul barely survived.
Who was in Hell? Halaster tried his ritual in Undermountain I thought?
He attempted to perform a powerful ritual in Undermountain and died, true. But his madness was more to blame for that. And such madness had been amplified after being infused with so much magic by Mystra herself and after exposing himself to the cancerous energy of Avernus in the foolish attempt to save the doddering Old Sage. [Mystra 'cured' him, but 'twas only temporary. The pronounced madness, it seemed, could not be healed by divine nor arcane means.] |
| smerwin29 |
Posted - 15 Jun 2012 : 13:13:36
If my research was correct, Halaster was in Hell during the events of the novel "Elminster in Hell." Three years later, Elminster's ritual (and his apparent death) took place in Undermountain. What state he is in now is an issue I have been skirting in my design work, so I cannot wait to see if there is any further resolution. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 15 Jun 2012 : 12:23:28
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He was in Hell. I think that's more than enough explanation. Even The Simbul barely survived.
Who was in Hell? Halaster tried his ritual in Undermountain I thought? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 Jun 2012 : 07:43:36
He was in Hell. I think that's more than enough explanation. Even The Simbul barely survived. |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 13:52:58
How could he die that easily, i find it so strange just killing him off like that, epic spell duels or something, at least better than trying some ritual which did not even manifest anything at all, except his image in mage's minds... |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Jun 2012 : 00:46:17
Oh well, didn't Ed (subtly) hint on Halaster's return...? |
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