| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 19:54:31
Spies are largely underrated. The movers and shakers of the Realms are able to do what they do partly because they have capable spies. When scrying can be countered by magic, what a nosy bastard would need do is send out a spy to get the information he wants…
So what do you think? Having an anthology focusing on the exploits of prominent and new spies would be great, right? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 14:29:35
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
To resurrect everyone would cheapen their deaths in the first place.
Manshoon's clones enable him to be "resurrected" so many times. Does that make him very, very, very cheap?! |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 14:04:41
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I am personally certain that Mask will make a comeback.
The way he said "I have a secret" as he died showed that his intrigues have not yet come to an end.
Here's the thing - having gods like Mask, Vhaeraun & Leira show up again make a lot of sense, considering what they are all about. Because of who they are/were, its fairly easy to explain in-game ("it was their plan all along!")
others are a bit trickier, but still explainable within their portfoilos (usually). Why would a Mystra come back? Because the magic is still there - its just been unleashed. The Weave wasn't just a 'big net', it had multiple dimensions and infused everything. It was more like a container, and now it is broken. You gather-up all that magical soup and put it back into something a "Wallah", new Mystra/Mystyl.
A deity like Ibrandul would be harder (which is a shame, because I really liked Ibrandul). However, I can think of a couple of good ways they can explain-away how all the gods are back (using The Sundering event, which I am almost thinking of as a "Be careful what you wish for" scenario played-out for the gods). I think someone may have actually used that exact expression in one of the Gencon talks.
While I hope some of the gods such as Mask and Mystra make a comeback. I dont believe that every slain god should be resurrected.
Some like Tyr deserved their demise and others died in a spectacular enough fashion.
To resurrect everyone would cheapen their deaths in the first place. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 15:40:30
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I am personally certain that Mask will make a comeback.
The way he said "I have a secret" as he died showed that his intrigues have not yet come to an end.
Here's the thing - having gods like Mask, Vhaeraun & Leira show up again make a lot of sense, considering what they are all about. Because of who they are/were, its fairly easy to explain in-game ("it was their plan all along!")
others are a bit trickier, but still explainable within their portfoilos (usually). Why would a Mystra come back? Because the magic is still there - its just been unleashed. The Weave wasn't just a 'big net', it had multiple dimensions and infused everything. It was more like a container, and now it is broken. You gather-up all that magical soup and put it back into something a "Wallah", new Mystra/Mystyl.
A deity like Ibrandul would be harder (which is a shame, because I really liked Ibrandul). However, I can think of a couple of good ways they can explain-away how all the gods are back (using The Sundering event, which I am almost thinking of as a "Be careful what you wish for" scenario played-out for the gods). I think someone may have actually used that exact expression in one of the Gencon talks. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 11:00:03
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
True enough but on average your normal elf was considered more attractive than your normal human. Certainly one cant say that elves are the same as humans but if your race has the reputation of being aloof and uninterested in the doings of others then isn't this actually of great advantage to you as a spy. People will let down their guard and say things in front of you which they may not otherwise to give one example.
In our society the more common belief is that if someone looks young and beautiful that they are also foolish and naive. "Dumb blondes" is an good example of that.
I will certainly attest to that. You guys wouldn't believe how often people don't take you seriously or treat you like "a kid" when you look much younger than you are(36, but look about 22), especially if you happen to be small(I'm 5') in stature. But then again, people will say things in front of a supposed "kid" than they would if they realized that "kid" was actually older than they are! Hrm, maybe I'd make a good spy....
You probably would. Let me know if you get into Langley.
Even my mom has that exact same problem, she is also petite and youthful looking. When I was younger everyone used to assume that we were brother and sister. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 02:58:23
Looks certainly plays a great role in spying. Or rather, one's ability to "blend." You wouldn't want to be an eagle amidst a flock of ravens. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 02:19:49
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
True enough but on average your normal elf was considered more attractive than your normal human. Certainly one cant say that elves are the same as humans but if your race has the reputation of being aloof and uninterested in the doings of others then isn't this actually of great advantage to you as a spy. People will let down their guard and say things in front of you which they may not otherwise to give one example.
In our society the more common belief is that if someone looks young and beautiful that they are also foolish and naive. "Dumb blondes" is an good example of that.
I will certainly attest to that. You guys wouldn't believe how often people don't take you seriously or treat you like "a kid" when you look much younger than you are(36, but look about 22), especially if you happen to be small(I'm 5') in stature. But then again, people will say things in front of a supposed "kid" than they would if they realized that "kid" was actually older than they are! Hrm, maybe I'd make a good spy.... |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 12:16:21
I am personally certain that Mask will make a comeback.
The way he said "I have a secret" as he died showed that his intrigues have not yet come to an end. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 00:40:35
He's supposed to be subsumed by Shar (as shown in the last part of Shadworealm). But Ed mentioned some subtle hints of Mask's "return." And given what a sneaky bastard Mask is, it's very likely.
That's a good suggestion, though I wouldn't want the story to be focused on his life after ascension. Half on his mortal days, and the other half on the lives of the mortals (not necessarily his priests and Chosen) he controlled, influenced, or manipulated to carry out his schemes. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 17:56:20
Inasmuch as spying involves intrigue, maybe it would be interesting to get a compilation of spy stories that all involve helping Mask regain his lost power and the portfolio of intrigue. Each story is independent, but we get a "Mask's Eye View" as the deity watches intrigue unfold and maybe uses those moments to remember his own past (as a mortal--he was mortal once, right?), so we get some juicy details about his back history.
Note: I'm not sure what Mask's current status is in the Realms. Just an idea. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 16:40:01
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The main characters can still be involved, though should be minimally. Or they can just be mentioned in passing..
THIS |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 16:32:48
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
A spy with access to illusory spells or mechanical gadgets? Maybe he could be a gnome...
"My name is Gwynfronthalessuriantelandras, Nefringultanelessimadurian Gwynfronthalessuriantelandras..."
I thought Gwynfronthalessuriantelandras was a female name. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 15:40:38
A spy with access to illusory spells or mechanical gadgets? Maybe he could be a gnome...
"My name is Gwynfronthalessuriantelandras, Nefringultanelessimadurian Gwynfronthalessuriantelandras..." |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 15:27:02
The main characters can still be involved, though should be minimally. Or they can just be mentioned in passing...
Those places are good suggestions. I second all of them. And you're right about the last part, specially Cormyr. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 15:14:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I'd like to see more stuff on noble house spies. I've been reading information about spies found in An Overview of Chondath (on the Bard's Rumors shelf) and it occurred to me there are a ton of spies for pretty much very noble family out there, all over the Realms.
Seems like there would be a handful of really good stories to tell from all those spies doing their work.
I second this. What an interesting yarn it'll be.
It would also be fun if the stories are connected to previous novels, like how Dmitra's spies worked to undermine Szass Tam's forces, or how Sembian/Shadovar spies managed to infiltrate Waterdeep.
That would be pretty cool if they did some fill in on events previously covered. They may not even need to involve the main characters of those books like you say if the events are broad reaching. Naturally, it could be from any time period of the realms too... so during Netheril... during the foundation of Dambrath... during the uprising in Tethyr in the 1350's... during the formative years of Thay (in those decades after the war but before the Zulkir system had taken hold)... during the war between Mulhorand and Unther... during the rise of Thayd and the Theurgist adepts... during the rise of Zhengyi in Vaasa/Damara BEFORE he killed off King Virdin Bloodfeathers... any of the myriad princedoms of Impiltur. I'd recommend staying away from Cormyr, Waterdeep, Neverwinter, and Sembia though, as they've gotten a lot of attention the last few years. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 15:00:42
As a chapter title, perhaps. But as a book title, hmmm...It's kinda misleading, IMHO. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 14:12:36
An odd thing that just popped into my head for a title:
Plothooks: A Fisherman's guide to the Realms
Its kind of a play-on-words, but it may be too subtle. I picture adventures always 'fishing' for clues (Scooby Scooby Doo!)
I know its not really a good title, I just thought I'd share one of the weird directions my mind likes to run in sometimes. Anyhoo, I'd love to see a book just dedicated to all the 'nefarious schemes' going on behind closed doors in The Realms. As part of that they should include an entire section on trade and trading costers. I'm at the back of Paizo's Inner Sea Guide at this point and there's a cool section on major trade routes. Why don't we ever get neat stuff like that? (in a campaign guide, not spread all over the place in a dozen books) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 04:34:17
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I'd like to see more stuff on noble house spies. I've been reading information about spies found in An Overview of Chondath (on the Bard's Rumors shelf) and it occurred to me there are a ton of spies for pretty much very noble family out there, all over the Realms.
Seems like there would be a handful of really good stories to tell from all those spies doing their work.
I second this. What an interesting yarn it'll be.
It would also be fun if the stories are connected to previous novels, like how Dmitra's spies worked to undermine Szass Tam's forces, or how Sembian/Shadovar spies managed to infiltrate Waterdeep. |
| Thrasymachus |
Posted - 04 Jun 2012 : 23:28:05
Realms of Spies/Espionage?
I am in for $8... just don't Kindle me please.  |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 02 Jun 2012 : 07:48:58
I'd like to see more stuff on noble house spies. I've been reading information about spies found in An Overview of Chondath (on the Bard's Rumors shelf) and it occurred to me there are a ton of spies for pretty much very noble family out there, all over the Realms.
Seems like there would be a handful of really good stories to tell from all those spies doing their work. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 05:00:56
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
They may have knowledge of magic, just no skill at Art.
I tend to agree. While in nearly all times I'm biased with wizards, I must say it's quite interesting to see them, especially the most powerful of the lot, being outsmart by spies who can't wield magic. |
| Xnella Moonblade-Thann |
Posted - 27 May 2012 : 16:36:34
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
"The names Thann... Danilo Thann. I'll take my Elverquist shaken, not stirred."
But elverquist is known for its powerful kick, and I've heard-tell he can't drink it in one gulp like his partner can. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 15:34:41
Same applies to other races. I recall, in Blackstaff Tower, a shade spy in Waterdeep who's covered in spells of illusion was caught by (if I'm not mistaken) Ten-Rings. There are always powerful wizards around, and so a spy will do well if he doesn't bother himself with illusory magic. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 16 May 2012 : 12:34:28
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
It depends, too, on the realm/s where the spy would be doing his job. If you put an elf spy in a realm whose major population consists of humans, then he'd be an obvious target of suspicion. Conversely, if you place a human spy in an elven land, same thing would happen. And as many spies have learned, it's better to wear their true forms than be cloaked in a veil of illusion, which any wizard of sufficient skills could easily counter.
Of course an elven spy in Hillsfar or Sembia would not be of much use unless he or she were pretending to be members of the lower classes and even then not so much. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 20:40:26
I’m not offering restrictions; I’m just mentioning what comes to mind first, for me, when I think of spies, as well as what interests me most.
When I think of spies and what a spy book might cover, I tend to think of human realms first. I don’t think of elves or dwarves or gnomes. And I don’t think of most spies as having any skill at magic.
They may have knowledge of magic, just no skill at Art.
The Realms is filled with magic, but with so many novels focusing on that I feel like I don’t get to see more of the Realms outside of magic.
As for races, I’m not saying books about dwarves spying on dwarves (for example) aren’t possible or that such might not be interesting.
It just wouldn’t be nearly as interesting to me as a novel about the spies of Tethyr or a novel about Highknights of Cormyr abroad in the greater realms, hunting and watching the foes of Cormyr. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 20:10:38
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
My first thought is that the spies ought to be human and non-magic users.
That seems pretty (and strangely) limiting. I think that all that spies really need are some good stealth and/or social skills. Putting race and magical ability restrictions seems irrelevant (and rather pre-3e) to me. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 16:31:00
My first thought is that the spies ought to be human and non-magic users.
I’d like a book about spies to go into detail about how the Realms works. That is, how the various nations, city states and regions go about their business, with an emphasis on the differences between them.
Those differences are something a good spy ought to know and be able to capitalize on.
Show me the day to day stuff. I don’t want more wizard wars or arcane spell battles. Instead show me how mundane, non-magic using people can control, undercut and manipulate priests, wizards and even monsters of power. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 15:59:35
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
To my fellow scribes:
To expand the OP a little, how do you wish the spies to be? Humans that don’t rely on magic, but with decent martial arts skills? Wizards? Non-wizards with no fighting skills but have brilliant minds?
----
I'd pick the first.
'Gadgets', a'la James Bond.
Except the gadgets could be magical. They should have little or no magic themselves, but that is a personal preference - I am sure a good spy-tale featuring a Mage could be done.
Nothing too flashy - stuff like crossbows with zip-lines attached to go from building to building - that sort of thing. Maybe a few smoke-powder pellets for flashy distractions or get-aways. A cart with built-in caltrop-drops and maybe even an oil slick, but make it all based on fantasy stuff (for instance, the spy could open a cask of dragonturtle oil and allow it to spill out the back while making his exit - that sort of thing).
Keep the spy theme so we still recognize it, but add a layer of fantasy stuff to whatever is being done or used. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 15:11:57
It depends, too, on the realm/s where the spy would be doing his job. If you put an elf spy in a realm whose major population consists of humans, then he'd be an obvious target of suspicion. Conversely, if you place a human spy in an elven land, same thing would happen. And as many spies have learned, it's better to wear their true forms than be cloaked in a veil of illusion, which any wizard of sufficient skills could easily counter. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 11:18:09
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Elves used be viewed as arrogant, haughty, generally concerned with their own affairs and disinterested in unnecessary interactions with humans or other "lesser" peoples. The emphasis on their beauty was more on their apparent youth and grace than their supposedly superhuman attractiveness, and audiences used to understand that beautiful things can also be very dangerous, that elves are in the end fey and eldritch creatures who do not behave as humans. Gygax-era elves would be superb spies mostly because of their natural stealth and intuitive command of magic, not because they are just better at every human quality than humans can be.
True enough but on average your normal elf was considered more attractive than your normal human. Certainly one cant say that elves are the same as humans but if your race has the reputation of being aloof and uninterested in the doings of others then isn't this actually of great advantage to you as a spy. People will let down their guard and say things in front of you which they may not otherwise to give one example.
In our society the more common belief is that if someone looks young and beautiful that they are also foolish and naive. " Dumb blondes" is an good example of that.
In conclusion perhaps your average elf might not make a good spy but then spies are hardly 'average' are they. Perhaps elves of Aryvandaar might have been to haughty to deign to spy on their neighbours but those times are long past, almost all elven kingdoms from Cormanthor to Menzoberranzan make extensive use of spies in order to survive. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 15 May 2012 : 10:48:55
Elves used be viewed as arrogant, haughty, generally concerned with their own affairs and disinterested in unnecessary interactions with humans or other "lesser" peoples. The emphasis on their beauty was more on their apparent youth and grace than their supposedly superhuman attractiveness, and audiences used to understand that beautiful things can also be very dangerous, that elves are in the end fey and eldritch creatures who do not behave as humans. Gygax-era elves would be superb spies mostly because of their natural stealth and intuitive command of magic, not because they are just better at every human quality than humans can be. |
