| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Icelander |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 06:10:08
First Chessentan Empire
I've always thought that various hints in early canon about a Chessentan Empire appeared to cover more time and further away in history than Tchazzar's brief and glorious reign. Also, the very fact that Chessenta took so quickly to Imperial trappings suggests that they were inspired by history.
Finally, I found in Pirates of the Fallen Stars that it flat out states conclusively that 'almost 2,000 years' before 1359 DR, there existed a Chessentan Empire*. It lasted at least 200 years, probably more, since there is no hint given in the book that it was a new polity 2,000 years ago (indeed, that time is stated to be its 'height', not its early birth) and 200 years later, it is still hale and hearty, with no sign that it is near collapse.
This tells me that after Unther withdrew nearly all of its armies to fight the Wizards' War and then immediately faced the Orcgate War, the province of Chessenta must have declared its freedom. Jhaamdath apparently felt satisfied with driving out the Untheri from its own lands on the other side of the Akanal and the Akanapeaks and did not annex this rebellious province of Unther that had apparently once been within its sphere of influence.
The orcs would have taken a terrible toll, but apparently not enough to prevent Chessenta from having become, in ca -750 DR**, an Imperial power. No doubt it was a naval power, claiming some of the islands that would become the Pirate Isles (indeed, the Pirates of the Fallen Stars supports this interpretation).
After the fall of Jhaamdath, the Chessentan Empire would no doubt have attempted to carve out a province of the chaos there, but I imagine that they did not profit by their attempt, but instead lost a lot of men to bandits and religious fanatics seeing the end of the world in Jhaamdaths's fall (and possibly to archons and Tyr, as the Chessentans would be jackals trying to profit from the fall, not lawgivers trying to bring peace).
The resurgence of the Untheri Empire would have ended the First Chesesentan Empire, but I am not sure when. At any rate, it must have happened before Gilgeam sends a Great Lord to take over Westgate in -27 DR, because otherwise the army of Mulan could hardly have reached the city, whether sailing or walking, without the leave of Chessenta. So by this time, Chessenta is either allied with Unther, its vassal to some degree or has been conquered again.
I would like to link the exodus of Chessentans*** that led to the settling of the Wizards' Reach with an annexation by Unther. This took place in -100 DR to 250 DR, so I would say that Chessenta resisted at first in a titanic war of empires, but was forced to accept a series of forced settlements that little-by-little stripped it of autonomy. Before -27 DR, Chessenta was powerless to prevent Unther from sending a fleet of warships filled with 'mercenaries' to take over Westgate past its shores and before 250 DR, Chessenta was once more a province of Unther.
*Not a confusion with the Untheric Empire, either, as that Empire is mentioned in another context, as a rival and enemy of the Chessentans.
**Around, in fact, the end of the First Untheric Empire.
***Apparently existing as a seperate national identity from the Untheri at this time, according to GHotR.
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| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 13:32:59
Sorry I Confused Var with Ulgarth. Certainly Var with its constant intrigues is more like the Mughal empire or more so the Delhi Sultanate which was a much more chaotic empire than the Mughals.
One can even find parallels between Rajput culture and the Maquar of Estagund especially their unswerving loyalty and willingness to die for their cause. Though of course we Rajputs lacked their unity and cohesiveness. Our constant feuding over several generations is the stuff of legends. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 08:34:53
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Thats very interesting, certainly one can identify many cultural and religious practices in the Shining south as being inspired by India. for example the Durpari traders are obviously based on our own trading communities such as the kachis or the Gujaraties. The caste system in Ulgarth, the warrior culture of Var, based on our own Rajput community i assume of which I am myself a member. These and many more examples are available and needless to say I would like to see this area of Toril better explored in novels and games.
Can you tell me more about the correspondances between the warrior culture of Var and Rajput culture?
I must confess that I felt that Ulgarth's tradition of military service and knightly courage represented the Rajput culture, especially with their military nobility.
Var I saw as being closer to the warrior culture under the Mughal Empire. But I'll acknowledge that I'm no expert and I'm very interested in getting views from someone with more knowledge on the subject. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 07:45:44
Thats very interesting, certainly one can identify many cultural and religious practices in the Shining south as being inspired by India. for example the Durpari traders are obviously based on our own trading communities such as the kachis or the Gujaraties. The caste system in Ulgarth, the warrior culture of Var, based on our own Rajput community i assume of which I am myself a member. These and many more examples are available and needless to say I would like to see this area of Toril better explored in novels and games. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 07:27:42
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Ah i also enjoyed reading your dissertation on the peoples of the Shining Lands. Being an Indian myself its good to get more information on the realms equivalent of my home country.
I'm working on the history of 'Indian-esque' people in the Realms.
The Mar are certainly not the only people in the Realms who are remniscient of the people of the subcontinent of India. Indeed, it looks like, from small hints in other sources, that from Durpar and Ulgarth on down, through much of the Yehimals and the entire western coast of the continent of Kara-Tur (and the southernmost area of that continent) is inhabited by people whose ethnic background we would characterise as 'Indian-esque'.
The 'Lords of Creation', the Realmsian equivalent to the fusion of indigenous beliefs of the Indus/Harappan culture and the gods of the invading Aryans, are/were worshipped in most of that area. There are also other religions, however, primarily a powerful snake-cult. It looks like that might have checked the invading tribes of chariot-warriors* and to the south of that the people are more dark-skinned (Dravidian).
The religion penetrated more deeply than the invaders, with the Kuong Empire** adopting it.
*Who must have invaded after the fall of Imaskar and been the ones who caused Durpar and Ulgarth to fall into barbarism.
**Equivalent to the Khmer. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 07:16:54
Ah i also enjoyed reading your dissertation on the peoples of the Shining Lands. Being an Indian myself its good to get more information on the realms equivalent of my home country. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 17:25:15
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I must say that this is impressive work. You should be a game designer or something.
Well, I am looking for a job.
I was hoping for the equivalent of $100,000 a year, but the absolute lowest I can go is $60,000.
While it is possible for game designers to receive salaries like that, these people design computer games and their skill-sets are mostly managerial, with a leavening of enough technical and marketing knowledge to successfully recruit, coordinate and motivate a team of programmers, art designers and other specialists.
A few Eurogame designers might also receive royalties to the tune of this and higher, but these are so much the exceptions that one might liken their success to being struck by lightning. Most games never find publication and most published games fail miserably.
As for making any kind of reasonably wage in the pen-and-paper roleplaying game business, the idea is essentially fantastical. Game designers* appear to be motivated by burning enthusiasm, because they certainly cannot have financial motives. Even the best paid among them are poorly compensated for their time. And the writers of 'fluff' are not likely to be among the best paid of them, as the general rule is that core rule books sell better than player-specific rule books, which in turn sell better than GM-specific rule books, which in turn sell better than anything setting specific.
I am faced with the unenviable but unavoidable conclusion that I must seek a career in my speciality, the law, and remain a grognard with occasional creative impulses in my spare time. The difference between unpaid work and typical industry pay-scales is only apparent by squinting very carefully, at any rate. 
Do you have any specific commentary on the issues raised in this scroll? Or my other, recent scrolls, the result of splitting into seperate scrolls, with titles more closely reflective of the subject, of several issues I've been pondering in Toril's history?
*As opposed to the owners of stock in a few large corporations, most of which derive the bulk of their revenue from other sources than their P&P RPGs. |
| Thauranil |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 13:58:06
I must say that this is impressive work. You should be a game designer or something. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 28 Feb 2012 : 08:37:25
Second settlement of Turami
We know that in -1,771 DR, the Turami humans were driven from what was then the Chessentan province of Unther.* We cannot be certain that the province of this time and the modern country shared exactly the same territory**, but it is nevertheless odd to find that modern Chessenta had a significant population of Turami.
Even if not all of them were successfully driven out 3,000 years ago, that time is more than long enough for them to have lost any and all seperate ethnic identity and become Chessentans unless they were geographically or culturally isolated.
So an active ethnic minority in today's Realms must date from a much later period in history.
At what point in time did the Turami population of modern Unther and Chessenta emerge from [where ever they were, but I like to thik it was the Metos]? Are there any canon hints?
*And that before this time, they had presumably been driven from Unther itself.
**Indeed, it is unlikely that they did. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 27 Feb 2012 : 06:10:54
Chessentan Wars
Since the death of Tchazzar and until 1357 DR, there have been, at least, two Cimbar vs. Airspur Wars, an Akanax vs. Soorenar War, an Akanax vs. Luthcheq War, and three Mordulkin vs. Luthcheq Wars.
How much of this can we date? I seem to recall maybe two of them in the GHotR, but not all of them. And then there are the wars Chessenta has been involved in since then.
Very little of it seemed to make it into the GHotR. Chessenta was affected by Yrkhetep, which was some time around ca 1355-1360, and lost a lot of warriors in the fighting in Chondath at that time. War with orcs in the Akanapeaks happened, I think.
In 1367 DR there was something about a Stormwalker and a wizard, Aeron Morieth. It's in a novel, but I got the feeling that it would have affected a lot of things. What happened, precisely?
Until very recently (i.e. until the Salamander War), Chessenta regarded the cities of the Wizards' Reach as the primary threat to its security. It is implied that there have been naval wars between the former League of Samathar and Chessentan cities. When did they take place?
And, oh, is there any canon information on who or what Samathar was? |
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