| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Aryalómë |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 00:31:04
I've been having a good bit of confusion on this topic recently. I just read an article in Elves of Evermeet, and it said that Gold Elves have physical appearances like that of Grey Elves from Greyhawk. This goes back on other lore, stating that Gold Elves have golden coloured skin. Also, when seeing pictures of various Elves in sourcebooks for FR, I've never seen any actual golden skinned Elves. However, I've seen Elves with pale blonde hair and fair skin. Could someone help me make sense of this? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 00:08:19
Zhai, from the (adequate) Demon Stone brawler videogame and Bob's novel Promise of the Witchking, is an example of an elf with a rather jumbled mixture of traits. She is half drow, half wood elf; has brown eyes but the skintone of a lighter skinned drow, complete with the white hair. It is common for Todd Lockwood to picture drow with a fairly light skintone though, so going by the picture of her could be misleading. Perhaps he meant for her to look completely like a drow, which would be closer to how it is in earlier sources: drow breed true.
I can't remember the source... but wasn't it specifically mentioned that drow males bred true drow from mixed elf drow coupling. Because in that case Zhai (who has a drow mother and a wood elf father) could again be an example of a mixed blooded elf that has features of both parents. |
| Wolfhound75 |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 22:53:52
Can be played in various modes. Exploration mode uses point/click movement while character view mode uses either point/click or keyboard keys for movement. |
| Aryalómë |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 22:38:10
Random Question:
Is Neverwinter Nights II a point a click style of moving in the game?
|
| Faraer |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 21:58:39
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
It's curious that Moon Elves are mockingly known by the name of Grey Elves by the Sun Elves, the subrace that actually resemble Gray Elves more. What do they mean? Is it that Teu-Tel'Quessir are 'mongrel' descendants of actual Gray Elves? - Moon elves do share physical traits with Gray Elves more that Sun Elves do -
Two distinct uses of 'grey/gray elf', referring to moon elves on Toril and faeries on Oerth etc. That's the 'confusion' the original Elves of Evermeet quote talks about.
Re the art, you also have dwarves not being brown or grey enough -- it's just artists defaulting to familiar caucasian colouring. |
| Aryalómë |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 21:25:02
That Elven Tree of Creation map doesn't even show 'evolution'. It just shows when the Elves were created. |
| Wolfhound75 |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 21:13:17
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Remember the confusion over drow skin tones in 3e? The text about the drow skin tone in the Underdark sourcebook was changed because artists supposedly couldn't draw/paint/etc ebony/obsidian skinned drow.
 I could have drawn them. You just use an ebony pencil instead of graphite. Problem solved. 
Clearly all these digital artists need to go back to Fundamentals of Art 101 and relearn some basic information about various media. Any given media always has strengths and weaknesses when it comes to art produced using it.
In all reality, my brother is a digital artist and animator for Rythym & Hues in the Los Angeles area and after talking with him about it, some of the problem, in his opinion, is a constraint of the programs but he feels that the majority is the artists understanding of the interplay of light/shadow to sufficiently detail such a dark complexion.
I'll attempt to explain. With the advent of digital art, artists are relying on the program to do the work rather than having a true understanding of how to appropriately capture the image they are trying to show. Digital is quick, a lot faster than pencil & charcoal or paint, and the artwork, IMO, shows it. Learn how to point and click, tag a few lines together to create the shape, paint on a few textures, and presto - digital art [yes, I'm oversimplifying it]. But painting on a texture such as ebony black over the general frame shape can't capture the interplay of light required to detail such a dark complexion. Sometimes, you just need to go 'old school' and put away your computer, pull out your set of 22 pencils, some paper, compressed charcoal and a blending stick and go to town.
Interesting point of view on the rendering of drow and maybe the reason for 3E's depiction of them.
Perhaps the OP's issues with the depiction of Gold Elves stem from a similar issue but my gut feeling is it stems from making the words match the picture instead of the artist taking the time to make the picture match the words. As an amateur artist myself, I think this denotes a certain laziness on the part of the artist but that is just my opinion. From a business sense, it's cheaper to change a few lines of text then reprint an entire picture.
Good Hunting!
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| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 19:58:17
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
As for the Elves, there are several instances in canon (I just came across one yesterday, but damned if I can remember where) wherein Elves do not 'breed true' to one sub-race or the other. They will usually favor one parent highly, but it isn't always a 100% 'racial copy' - ocassionally something 'slips through' from the other group (usually eye and hair color). Thus disapproving that Elven DNA 'works differently' then RW DNA. What you have are some very dominant strains, but thats it.
-Go ahead and find the source, then. Because, the offspring of a Moon Elf and a Sun Elf is either a Moon Elf or a Sun Elf, not a Mun Elf, or a Soon Elf. Tens of thousands of years of mixed breeding amongst themselves have demonstrated Punnett squares are not applicable. Elves in Realmspace have remained true to how they appeared, physically (and theoretically mentally) since the in-game chronologically earliest mentions in sourcebooks and novels. Sun Elves as a whole have retained the characteristics that they have had since coming to Realmspace. Moon Elves as a whole have retained the characteristics they have had since coming to Realmspace.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, all Elves/Eladrin supposedly came from a common source - This Illustration is from pg.10 of The Complete Book of Elves, clearly PROVING Elves do evolve, because they have varied GREATLY from a common source. This Picture from pg.29 of tCBoE illustrates the extended Elven family tree, and only includes the major (D&D/TSR canon) branches.
Because they are a 'created' race, they may not evolve in the same way as most natural creatures*, and it may just be an 'internal' evolution (individuals evolve, creating new strains), rather then racial, or it could be that they are so long-lived (another thing that varies greatly from sub-race to sub-race) that they evolve slower. I personally feel the 'First Elves' were nigh-Immortal, but they have lost much of that as their nature has changed.
-The Complete Book of Elves is not Forgotten Realms canon. We know that Abeir-Toril was not settled by 'Nomadic High Elves' who 'evolved' into Sun Elves, Moon Elves, Wood Elves, Drow, Aquatic Elves (or Avariel, Lythari, and Star Elves, which aren't even mentioned by said source, given they are fairly Forgotten Realms specific). We know conclusively it was "settled" by Wood Elves around -30,000 DR, and then by Sun and Moon Elves around -25,000 DR. Core books can only loosely be taken as Forgotten Realms canon, and when they include information that Forgotten Realms books do not touch on at all, masking a blank that might exist for generics instead. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 16:04:49
As for the Elves, there are several instances in canon (I just came across one yesterday, but damned if I can remember where) wherein Elves do not 'breed true' to one sub-race or the other. They will usually favor one parent highly, but it isn't always a 100% 'racial copy' - ocassionally something 'slips through' from the other group (usually eye and hair color). Thus disapproving that Elven DNA 'works differently' then RW DNA. What you have are some very dominant strains, but thats it.
Also, all Elves/Eladrin supposedly came from a common source - This Illustration is from pg.10 of The Complete Book of Elves, clearly PROVING Elves do evolve, because they have varied GREATLY from a common source. This Picture from pg.29 of tCBoE illustrates the extended Elven family tree, and only includes the major (D&D/TSR canon) branches.
Because they are a 'created' race, they may not evolve in the same way as most natural creatures*, and it may just be an 'internal' evolution (individuals evolve, creating new strains), rather then racial, or it could be that they are so long-lived (another thing that varies greatly from sub-race to sub-race) that they evolve slower. I personally feel the 'First Elves' were nigh-Immortal, but they have lost much of that as their nature has changed.
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Golf elf...that's embarrassing.
Not nearly as much as those pesky tennis Elves.
*I covered these points in my Elves of Faerun articles, which, while not canon, were well-researched, I assure you. |
| Eladrinstar |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 06:22:04
Golf elf...that's embarrassing. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 05:31:29
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Off topic, but I'd LOVE to know what a golf elf looks like.
Elf Golf
Obviously an offshoot of redcaps. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 05:20:24
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
Elves of Evermeet said that there are also Gold Elves that did not mingle with anyone.
-Add in the preface "generally speaking". Doesn't particularly change the gist of the point, though.
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Well, just because a child of a sun elf and a moon elf may be one or the other doesn't mean it takes no traits at all from its other parent. A deeply bronzed gold elf and a white-as-snow silver elf could produce a golf elf child who nonetheless has a warm-toned but light-skinned appearance (and keep in mind there is more in appearance than coloration).
-Yes, but keep in mind that you can't particularly use a Punnett Square when it comes to Elves. For over 25,000 years, Sun, Moon and Wood Elves have been generally coexisting and living amongst each other in Realmspace, on the continent, in space, and where ever else. For some time, in certain places, Star Elves can be added to the mix as well. Based on the snippets of lore for people and events describing 25,000 years in the past, 20,000 years in the past, 15,000 years in the past, 10,000 years, 5,000 years whatever our descriptions of Sun, Moon, Wood (and Star) Elves are generally static. If you go with a century as being more or less a single generation, that's 250 generations with no general changes. In a metagame sense, this is most likely just because the writers see "X, Y, and Z" as the stats/appearance/peculiarities of the race in their reference books are don't necessarily say to themselves, "Well, twenty-five thousand years ago, how might the race look/act/think/whatever differently then, as opposed to now". In a in-world sense, though, as a whole, no amount of interbreeding and intermingling has produced any sort of real change*.
*Some will say, "Look at Races of Faerûn! Wood Elves in that book are a subrace exclusively bred from Moon Elves, Sun Elves, and Green Elves (which in prior lore were those Wood Elves, which became 3e "Wild Elves"!)!" It's still an inconsistency in the information, the "which one of these things doesn't belong" Sesame Street sketch. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 01:18:51
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Well, just because a child of a sun elf and a moon elf may be one or the other doesn't mean it takes no traits at all from its other parent. A deeply bronzed gold elf and a white-as-snow silver elf could produce a golf elf child who nonetheless has a warm-toned but light-skinned appearance (and keep in mind there is more in appearance than coloration).
Off topic, but I'd LOVE to know what a golf elf looks like. 
But generally yes, two subraces of elves that mingle to create a child will generally have a child that MOSTLY resembles one or the other, but said child may well have traits and characteristics that take after the less dominant parent.
Cheers |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 21 Feb 2012 : 00:05:17
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
Elves of Evermeet said that there are also Gold Elves that did not mingle with anyone.
True.
But I wonder if these early interloper elves arriving from Faerie had already diverged from other Gray Elves into Ar-Tel'Quessir. It's quite suspicious that Faeruns Gold Elves differ from Gray Elves of Oerth and Mystara by having the bronzed skin that typically is shared by the multiverses more rugged elven subraces, like Oerths Sylvan Elves or Athas' desert elves. The Sun Elves did encounter scattered pockets of wild elven settlers (that were originally Sylvan Elves scouts from Fearie) that have bronzed skin too.
It's curious that Moon Elves are mockingly known by the name of Grey Elves by the Sun Elves, the subrace that actually resemble Gray Elves more. What do they mean? Is it that Teu-Tel'Quessir are 'mongrel' descendants of actual Gray Elves? - Moon elves do share physical traits with Gray Elves more that Sun Elves do - |
| Eladrinstar |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 21:36:34
Well, just because a child of a sun elf and a moon elf may be one or the other doesn't mean it takes no traits at all from its other parent. A deeply bronzed gold elf and a white-as-snow silver elf could produce a golf elf child who nonetheless has a warm-toned but light-skinned appearance (and keep in mind there is more in appearance than coloration). |
| Aryalómë |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 21:26:23
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And in the real world, sunlight helps people generate vitamin D. It's not unreasonable to assume that elven physiology has some quirks that do something similar to this, but in a way that provides some sustenance. It doesn't have to be magical or psychological, though it's certainly possible. Or it could be some combination of the three.
-That was it, Vitamin D. I was drawing a blank, and could only think of 'Cabinfever' making people physically sickly, but is more psychological than physical. But, yes, that.
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I like the theory that they have mingled with the other elven subraces and therefore aquired this skintrait. Elaine's Evermeet kinda supports this, as the few gold elven families that arrived on Faerun (seemed like the first settlers where not more than a couple hundred gold elves and a single moon elf) are unlikely to have produced the meriad of gold elven houses currently active on Toril.
-Going against that is the fact that Elves do not evolve, per se, and breed true- a Moon Elf and Sun Elf having a child is either going to be a Moon Elf or Sun Elf (stats wise). Physical traits, there's more leeway, but were that the case, after some 25,000+ years of Sun, Moon, and Wood Elves living amongst each other in various settlements across the planet (and not on the planet at all!), you'd of eventually gotten one smorgasbord medley of traits that all three possess, and the distinctness of each kind of shoots that down.
Elves of Evermeet said that there are also Gold Elves that did not mingle with anyone. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 18:37:24
I have always doubted that elves don't evolve, but yeah, the distinctive features of the elven subraces elves kinda prove that they don't. Especially moon elves that all began with that Moonflower chap (Sharlarian ?).
Still, I think there should be an explanation why the supposedly "Gray Elves" of Faerun surrounding the Durothil family came to differ from their multiversal counterparts. Perhaps it was the specific avatar of Corellon that watched Realmspaces elves changed/blessed the Ar'Tel-Quessir of Faerun in a special way because he had plans for them later on? The creation of Evermeet does seem to give elves on Faerun a privileged position. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 17:57:22
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And in the real world, sunlight helps people generate vitamin D. It's not unreasonable to assume that elven physiology has some quirks that do something similar to this, but in a way that provides some sustenance. It doesn't have to be magical or psychological, though it's certainly possible. Or it could be some combination of the three.
-That was it, Vitamin D. I was drawing a blank, and could only think of 'Cabinfever' making people physically sickly, but is more psychological than physical. But, yes, that.
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I like the theory that they have mingled with the other elven subraces and therefore aquired this skintrait. Elaine's Evermeet kinda supports this, as the few gold elven families that arrived on Faerun (seemed like the first settlers where not more than a couple hundred gold elves and a single moon elf) are unlikely to have produced the meriad of gold elven houses currently active on Toril.
-Going against that is the fact that Elves do not evolve, per se, and breed true- a Moon Elf and Sun Elf having a child is either going to be a Moon Elf or Sun Elf (stats wise). Physical traits, there's more leeway, but were that the case, after some 25,000+ years of Sun, Moon, and Wood Elves living amongst each other in various settlements across the planet (and not on the planet at all!), you'd of eventually gotten one smorgasbord medley of traits that all three possess, and the distinctness of each kind of shoots that down. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 14:24:42
I wouldn't give gold elven skin a true metallic sheen. That's too StarTrek 'Data'-like to me. An Ar'Tel-Quessir shouldn't look too artificial.
Their 'golden skintone' is indicative of a tendency to tan more easily than the other elves breeds on Fearun. Apart from the vibrant Wood Elves of the Shaar (or other sun soaked regions), who are often chestnut brown, Gold Elves are born usually of lighter skintone just like the Grey Elves of other multiversal worlds, and depending on the season/climate/activities they aquire their tan.
I like the theory that they have mingled with the other elven subraces and therefore aquired this skintrait. Elaine's Evermeet kinda supports this, as the few gold elven families that arrived on Faerun (seemed like the first settlers where not more than a couple hundred gold elves and a single moon elf) are unlikely to have produced the meriad of gold elven houses currently active on Toril.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 05:31:17
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
[quote]While I don't have all the sources in front of me, it seems to me that elves are likely to be drawing sustenence from the magic inherent in sunlight, not through a process precisely analogous to that of chlorophyll. The sun of Abeir-Toril was most likely created when Selune threw a fragment of her divine essence at Shar and thus shares an origin with Mystryl.
-In EoF I tied it simply to nature, and that it wasn't as physical as it was mental or psychological (which then has physical repercussions). Elves have a natural affinity with nature, and nature can only exist (generally speaking) with sunlight. A lack of sunlight for prolonged periods has negative psychological consequences (an extreme form of cabin fever, you could all it), which in turn has negative physical effects. In the sun, they feel (psychologically_ connected to the rest of nature, to the rest of Elvendom, to life itself. Deprivation results in feeling ripped apart from all of that, which has very negative mental and physical consequences on Elves.
And in the real world, sunlight helps people generate vitamin D. It's not unreasonable to assume that elven physiology has some quirks that do something similar to this, but in a way that provides some sustenance. It doesn't have to be magical or psychological, though it's certainly possible. Or it could be some combination of the three. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 04:35:09
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
[quote]While I don't have all the sources in front of me, it seems to me that elves are likely to be drawing sustenence from the magic inherent in sunlight, not through a process precisely analogous to that of chlorophyll. The sun of Abeir-Toril was most likely created when Selune threw a fragment of her divine essence at Shar and thus shares an origin with Mystryl.
-In EoF I tied it simply to nature, and that it wasn't as physical as it was mental or psychological (which then has physical repercussions). Elves have a natural affinity with nature, and nature can only exist (generally speaking) with sunlight. A lack of sunlight for prolonged periods has negative psychological consequences (an extreme form of cabin fever, you could all it), which in turn has negative physical effects. In the sun, they feel (psychologically_ connected to the rest of nature, to the rest of Elvendom, to life itself. Deprivation results in feeling ripped apart from all of that, which has very negative mental and physical consequences on Elves. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 20 Feb 2012 : 01:17:22
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Unfortunately, Elves skin must also contain some form of mammalian Chlorophyll, because canonically they can derive some small amount of sustenance from sunlight itself (trying to find the source for this ATM). Ergo, their skin having some form of reflective, protective properties doesn't make much sense (which is probably why we quickly abandoned that half-baked theory).
While I don't have all the sources in front of me, it seems to me that elves are likely to be drawing sustenence from the magic inherent in sunlight, not through a process precisely analogous to that of chlorophyll. The sun of Abeir-Toril was most likely created when Selune threw a fragment of her divine essence at Shar and thus shares an origin with Mystryl.
Given that assumption, it isn't really any less likely that the process of drawing magical energy from sunlight and converting it to sustenence draws some of the pigmentation away from the surface of the skin than assuming that elves tan as humans do.
I'd probably rule that only using* the sun's energy to replace food, i.e. going without food (partially or wholly), results in this lightening. Thus, elves who either do not receive much sunlight or who are content to get their nourishment entirely through more 'traditional' means** will tend to have stronger skin pigmentation.
I'd also say that on all worlds where elves live, the sun emits some magic as well, enabling elves to derive a part of their nourisment from it if they wish. On Toril, however, the direct connection of the sun to the Goddess of Magic results in the magical content of sunlight being stronger than in most other places.
This is why Torilian elves are larger and more long-lived than elves elsewhere in the multiverse. They are better fed and course with more magic. Canonically, elven lifespans grew shorter as the Weave was damaged, so it is likely that the first elves born on Toril lived even longer. Of course, post-Sundering, only those places on Faerun that had not been made inhospitable to the elves by that miscast magic allowed them the benefit of this, explaining why the trend of the majority of Torilian elves over time has been toward the norm elsewhere in the multiverse, but with those who live in the mystical elven homelands are excempt.
This also neatly explains the general coloration of the subraces, as well as the variations within each. The sylvan elves, both wild and copper, appear to have a more hedonistic attitude toward life, with a genuine enjoyment of nature's bounty, not merely in a spiritual sense, but to an almost human degree in some of them, for the fruits of nature. They are therefore likely to hunt and gather actual, physical food. The energy gathered from sunlight they most likely expend in powering their innate gifts useful for survival, their 'infravision' or 'night vision'*** and tolerance for extremes of temperature, or it gets used in rebuilding their skin to remove scars from their more active lifestyle.
Other elves might have concerns that are more cerebral and spiritual, eating more sparingly. Aware of the life that pulses everywhere and their stewardship for nature, these elves must be balancing their need and the sensual joy of eating against the harm done to individual plants or animals. While it is possible to harvest a great deal of bounty from a verdant forest without causing it harm, a code which accords every berry, acorn or leaf its own value independent of the use to which it might be put, it is not hard to see why these elves consume only as much as they need and no more.
This sounds like the moon elves and it might also explain a lot of the lighter-skinned copper, wild or gold elves.
Why then are most of the gold elves so vibrantly hued? While gold, bronze or amber are fairly light colours, they are still not the fair white skin of Gray Elves seen around the multiverse. And gold elves are, if anything, even less concerned than moon elves with earthy things. The pleasure of eating will not weigh heavily with most of them and they are far removed from the cycle of predator and prey.
On the other hand, the daily activities of most gold elves are such as to, ironically, expose them to less sunlight than perhaps any of the other surface elves except those in the deepest forests. Political intrigue, magical research, artistic creation and intense craftmanship may theoretically be possibly pursued out of doors, but the required conditions or tools are more often found in specialised structures. They, therefore, might spend less time out of doors than their cousins, even if they usually enjoy nature more than urban humans ever do.
Gold elves also have a more stratified society than other elves and a desire for social status and power that seems almost human. Ambition could result in them using the power derived from the sun more to power workings of Art than mundane sustenence and a stratified society with the gold elves at or near the top provides them with an alternate option for sustenance, i.e. having the commoner elves**** provide them with plentiful food. So, their skin pigmentation is not lightened as much as with the 'lesser' elves, if it is for different reasons.
*As opposed to letting it dissipate naturally or using it to power minor acts of magic, either of which must be a possible alternate use, since elves who spend a long time in the sun while also being adequately fed appear not to accumulate infinite stores of energy that can allow them to go without food for centuries.
**From a mammalian and reptilian perspective, at least.
***It is actually vision based on life, magic and the innate connection between these, with seeing heat a byproduct, largely because it is both major feature of the sun and a common attribute of biological life and therefore important in the lifecycle.
****For commoner gold elves, read 'other elves of even lower status'. Commoner gold elves are still likely to be craftsmen or other 'middle-class' professions, able to trade their work to the food-producing 'lower-class' elves of other subraces. As always, exceptions abound, this is simply a generalisation founded in the description of the subraces. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 22:06:18
Unfortunately, since that tome covers the FR Elven groups specifically, and even what little detail we have on the Zakharan ones, then we have to assume that the book is indeed Realms canon (else, why even bother including case-specific info for the Realms and Zakhara?)
However, setting-canon does take precedence over D&D canon, and its pretty clear that our Gold Elves are the 'Grays' (Eladrin in 4e) from other settings (I believe it even says that in tCHoE -can't check now, on my way out the door). This means that our (FR) elves are somewhat different then the generic ones, color-wise - and our Grays have a LARGE admixture of non-Gray blood, because of the events related in Elaine's novel, which could account for why our 'haughty elves' look more like the sylvan elves from other settings.
Just thought of something - what skin-tone do Eladrin have? It should be the extremely pale coloration of Gray Elves (except in FR). |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 16:12:53
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
it was in the book by Elaine Cunningham, one of the very few people Ed Greenwood has said that actually understood his Realms.
Yep. Specificaly, it was in Danilo's narration. And "actually understanding the Realms" explicitly involves?..
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I've always gone by the material in Cormanthyr:Empire of the Elves. Steven knew elves and that book has pretty much the "correct" physical characteristics of elves, in my opinion.
Also, counts as a specific source vs. generic ones. Appearance
Skin: Bronze, amber
Hair: Copper, golden blond, black; rare: red
Eyes: Gold, silver, black; rare: copper, hazel
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Unfortunately, Elves skin must also contain some form of mammalian Chlorophyll, because
...there was a great scarcity of the "wood elf" jokes as it is, clearly.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Stuff about Elven skintones can be found on page 31 of The Complete Handbook of Elves. I forgot how much interesting stuff was in that tome. I'm going to have to check some other sources to find the thing about sunlight.
It's interesting, but just a generic drop in the ocean that won't necessarily cover even what one can meet on the deck of a single EIN ship, let alone be obligatory appliable to every given world in full. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 05:20:30
Lord Karsus and I had come up with the theory that Elves tan in reverse - that the pigments in their skin get lighter as they spend time in the sun.
It doesn't work out so good, but it was just something interesting we were tossing around for a (short) while. We were trying to work-out some of the science behind it - lighter colors reflect light, and darker ones absorb it, so perhaps it could have been some sort of evolutionary protection from over-exposure to the sun.
Unfortunately, Elves skin must also contain some form of mammalian Chlorophyll, because canonically they can derive some small amount of sustenance from sunlight itself (trying to find the source for this ATM). Ergo, their skin having some form of reflective, protective properties doesn't make much sense (which is probably why we quickly abandoned that half-baked theory).
Stuff about Elven skintones can be found on page 31 of The Complete Handbook of Elves. I forgot how much interesting stuff was in that tome. I'm going to have to check some other sources to find the thing about sunlight. |
| Lady Shadowflame |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 01:16:02
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I refer to sun elves as having golden, bronze, lightly tanned, etc skin tones. They do vary.
Cheers
And one could always assume that instead of brown-tan like some humans get (those lucky enough to be able to tan instead of freckling...) sun elves go more gold/bronze when they spend time in the sun.
Just assume the paler ones in pictures have spent the last two decades or so mostly indoors learning something they really wanted to study? |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 00:24:43
I refer to sun elves as having golden, bronze, lightly tanned, etc skin tones. They do vary.
Cheers |
| Kuje |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 21:28:45
I've always gone by the material in Cormanthyr:Empire of the Elves. Steven knew elves and that book has pretty much the "correct" physical characteristics of elves, in my opinion. |
| Eladrinstar |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 19:40:07
But it was in a part of the book that was being presented as a compilation of legends Danilo Thann had put together. It might not be the reality of the situation. |
| Aryalómë |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 19:36:40
Realmslore is now stating that Gold Elves have golden skin colour (which makes a lot more sense and looks much better). Also, where Araushnee was said to be drow like, it was in the book by Elaine Cunningham, one of the very few people Ed Greenwood has said that actually understood his Realms. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 18:36:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Vartan Hai Sylvar was a gold elf, and he was depicted with bronze skin in the comics.
And gold elf skin color is always referred to as "bronze" in all FR boxes, no?
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Many of those elves are quite pale but their skin has warm tones, to contrast with the cold white/blue/silver tones of the Moon Elves.
...of course, to think of it, there are very different sorts of bronze.
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
And now I've just read that Araushnee/Lolth originally had the black skin and read eyes of the drow BEFORE her descent and that her children looked like her, in Evermeet: Island of Elves.
Unreliable lore is unreliable. Besides, those elves would die before admitting that the Fall of the Drow involved anything that can be seen as an improvement. 
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Remember the confusion over drow skin tones in 3e? The text about the drow skin tone in the Underdark sourcebook was changed because artists supposedly couldn't draw/paint/etc ebony/obsidian skinned drow.
It's a known bug, yes. The known solution is to let the artist in question draw webcomics for several years for practice. The same could solve the whole "magic = puke + fluorescence" problem plaguing D&D3 books - or, hopefully, even slightly cut back spikes&skullz ornaments and other "very artsy" additives of this sort.
If they needed a book sooner than that, there certainly are artists capable to do it. For example, the one who illustrated GAZ5: The Elves of Alfheim cover - (looking up) - Clyde Caldwell. Before there were drow in any sourcebook he without rhyme or reason painted one (this cover seems to be the earliest inspiration).
There's, ahem, a tendency toward chainmail bikinis, yes. However, mildly puerile good art is, at very least, much better than highly puerile bad art. IMHO. 
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
And yes the Ilythiiri were dark skinned, but I'm not sure if they were the almost blue-black of the Drow, or if they had white hair yet.
I certainly remember there was something about the original Ssri-tel'quessir being dark-skinned the way humans are, and becoming graphite/obsidian black as the drow. Which IMO is fine, since it came in a bundle with affinity to radiation magic.
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