| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| althen artren |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 19:37:05
driven you the most crazy?
I have been filling in a DM map
of Anaurouch, The North, and the
Dales for some time, and the
scales used in Anauroch is just awful.
There's not enough space between the
Desertsmouth Mts, and the Scimitar Spires,
the High Ice doesn't extend as far south,
Azzirat seems to be misplaced, it is a mess! |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Quale |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 14:25:54
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
last time I was the DM, the map of the Western Heartlands/southern Sword Coast did drive me crazy cause I wanted to combine it with my homebrew region
Which is why I did my series of 'Naked' Maps, for DMs who wanted to do their own thing.
That was very useful, tough when I tried to connect the Moonshaes to the Sword Coast it turned out ugly |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 03:10:11
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
That is some much awesomeness that I can't comprehend it.
You must post pictures.
I've tried capturing most of the room with the panorama-setting on my digital camera. The images themselves reproduce the scope of the room, but it's hard to see the individual maps because of the camera's distance when swinging it slowly around to film the entire four walls. As a result, they just look like walls with colourful pieces of decorated paper plastered all over them. 
|
| althen artren |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 02:18:02
That is some much awesomeness that I can't comprehend it.
You must post pictures.
Edit: Now I see one of the reasons so many of Sage's
lists never get done. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 02:06:47
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
The Sage
The 1e/2e maps had that "old-timey" quality that I so adored ...
With the 3e maps, we were brought into more modern cartographic formats ...
[4e maps] have again taken a leap ... We are literally immersed in the environments
Haha, I think much of this new appreciation can be attributed to Sage 4E instead of maps 4E.
Well, I do have a tendency to stand for -- literally -- hours while staring at my vast walls of maps from different fantasy setting/worlds.
In fact, in some rooms, the Lady K and I decided not to bother painting the walls any particular colour after the white-washing. We just organised the maps from our vast collection in such a manner that, eventually, they became like wallpaper -- in that they cover practically every inch of every wall in our so-called "Map Room." |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 15:25:31
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
last time I was the DM, the map of the Western Heartlands/southern Sword Coast did drive me crazy cause I wanted to combine it with my homebrew region
Which is why I did my series of 'Naked' Maps, for DMs who wanted to do their own thing.
I don't understand why all game companies don't do this - when an artist creates them they should be putting everything into separate layers anyway. Their maps would be so much more useful if they allowed you to download terrain-only versions - players shouldn't know everything. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 13:50:33
My favourite map of all time was the (largely undetailed) "Heartlands of the Realms" 2-pager presented in the 2E FRA. A larger scale duplicate became my group's central reference for years, slowly expanded and filled with (sometimes inaccurate) detail wherever their adventures took them.
A similar document depicting their most heated battles during the 3rd siege of Sentinel Keep (their beat-up little "castle" and surrounding lands) was hurriedly written upon several pizza boxes but eventually evolved into a detailed historical and strategic synopsis which has been archived in more conventional formats and studied in great depth. |
| Quale |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 13:16:40
last time I was the DM, the map of the Western Heartlands/southern Sword Coast did drive me crazy cause I wanted to combine it with my homebrew region |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 10:22:55
quote:
The Sage
The 1e/2e maps had that "old-timey" quality that I so adored ...
With the 3e maps, we were brought into more modern cartographic formats ...
[4e maps] have again taken a leap ... We are literally immersed in the environments
Haha, I think much of this new appreciation can be attributed to Sage 4E instead of maps 4E. The newer maps make great wall posters, but they're not that great; I still generally prefer the older maps, a few for presentation and most for content. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 04:01:30
Yup.
And the smaller 4e maps are damn gorgeous - Mike Shley is a master of his craft. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 03:51:28
I don't disagree that the maps look good, but
trying to put things the right distance from
other things that have been mapped before is
just a dreadful exericise in futility. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 03:20:25
I've often loved every map-styling/format used for the Realms in both prior editions and in the 4e material. The 1e/2e maps had that "old-timey" quality that I so adored in the late 80's/early 90's, and usually complimented the setting lore perfectly. I really gained a sense of the unique and otherworldly-sense of the Realms each and every time I glanced at one of those early maps.
With the 3e maps, we were brought into more modern cartographic formats -- computer-aided mapping methods and greater renderings often meant more detail and a more comprehensive feel to the "totality" of the mapped regions.
The 4e maps, I think, tend to bring a "real-world" quality to the mapping of fantasy worlds like the Realms. By "real-world" quality, I mean that the mapping methods and renderings of the previous edition maps have again taken a leap into the new era of computer-aided mapping design. We are literally immersed in the environments featured in select supplements and/or DDI articles -- of which, I offer one of my favourites examples... the Sarifal map from DRAGON #376. Simply stunning. |
| Therise |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 02:13:31
I absolutely love the 4E maps done for the regional areas detailed in DDI. Lots of nice detail, and they're just pretty. It's clean, crisp art, without being cartoony (the 1E gray box maps were a little cartoony IMO). So I have serious envy for the 4E enthusiasts who don't have to alter anything in order to use those awesome DDI regional maps.
But the 4E Realms "big" map that was in the 4E FRCG? It looked and felt really cheap, and it had less detail than I remember on many other maps. And oddly, a couple of the new post-spellplague features on the map didn't get any (or adequate) explanations in the manual. There was a big smudge for a collapsed region IIRC, some kind of big entrance chasm to the Underdark (maybe?) or something... I'm not sure we've been told what that thing is, ever.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 01:22:39
I actually rather like the 4E map style, I don't necessarily like the new places on the maps, but I do appreciate the detail work on textures and shading. I like the colours, personally. They 4E maps are definitely higher quality, in terms of "important" detail, than most of the older maps and I think things did "get better" overall. It seems clear to me that WotC hired a talented artist, not a talented cartographer or surveyor, so obviously the game maps aren't going to be comparable to those recorded by Drake or Mercator or Magellan.
Having said that - yes, there are many instances where some artistic license is applied to Realms maps (and 4E maps certainly aren't lacking in artistic license), so many of the maps don't really mesh well with other maps. Sometimes even Modern Real Life Technology isn't good enough to correlate map features and locations in a nicely registered way, no matter how you readjust scales or dimensional sections. I still wonder why almost every map appears to be drawn on an entirely random and unique scale.
I don't much mind having numerous maps for a region which differ, because I'll pick (or make) one which is "accurate" and feed the others to my players. They do live in a world where cartography is as much art as science. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:59:10
From what I remember of the discussion over at the WotC boards a long while back, it wasn't so much a map, as it was a 'stylized representation'.
I never really heard it put that way before.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I had a big lunch and I need go do a 'stylized representation'. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:46:18
The 4e map drives me crazy. it has horrid colors and does not list everything.
and did I mention it has horrid collors? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:39:20
Ahhhhhh, but maps are supposed to get better, not worse. What you are saying is that the later 3e maps are much less accurate then earlier ones. Entire Mountain ranges are missing, along with several kingdoms (aside from Erlkazar, I can also think of Shaareach off the top of my head).
Colombus had an excuse - he was the first to explore the region. To leave out an area that was high-lighted in a Quintilogy - one written by FR's preeminent author - was just bad design. Whoever did the art work did a decent job, but it could have been better - they could have just 'shrunk' certain elements to achieve the same effect, without losing anything. I don't blame the artist - I blame whoever approved the final product without double-checking it.
On the bright side, at least it wasn't ugly. |
| Lady Swiftstrike Assassin |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:28:36
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Try to compare the maps in the novels with the 3e campaign map - Erlkazar doesn't even exist.
Don't worry, I put it back. 
Ok, can we assume that since Colombus used this map:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/ColombusMap.jpg
He never sailed?
 |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:27:38
Try to compare the maps in the novels with the 3e campaign map - Erlkazar doesn't even exist.
Don't worry, I put it back. |
| Lady Swiftstrike Assassin |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:26:00
How does the 3e map somehow invalidate "The Cleric Quintet", Markustay? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:22:49
The way they 'bent' the map in 3e caused lots of problems when you try to place 1e/2e locales.
For instance, if you look at the 3e campaign map, the entire Cleric Quintet series could not have taken place.
Or the fact that the Great Glacier moved to a higher latitude then Icewind Dale.
What I was doing, before my personal disaster, was using ALL the maps - including the wonderful FRA Ones and the small ones in the Volo's guides - to create a highly detailed, ACCURATE map using the 3e textures (which were a lot prettier then earlier edition maps).
I had a single file with every single FR map ever made layered on it, and scaled, just to do this (I was drawing the 3e textures on top of the amalgam). It would have been awesome, if I do say so myself.
I found lots of neat stuff; note the fairly large lake in the Evermoors (check the smaller Fonstad map of the North - Ed confirmed its existence). I also included the ruins of many locales mentioned in PftM and PotF, among other sources (you'd be surprised how many islands and coastal settlements 'disappeared beneath the waves'). I also got quite a few from the online articles (like the mostly unknown 'kingdom' of Maerentede just west of the Dragonmere).
Anyhow, despite how 'empty' many folk thought Faerun was, it was actually pretty damn crowded in certain places (like around the Lake of Steam). Good Hunting, Althen! |
| Lady Swiftstrike Assassin |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 20:15:55
None of the maps have driven me crazy at all!
Sure, they aren't always particularly accurate, but very few maps, even with Modern Real Life Technology, are! I don't think the intended purpose of the maps packaged with the various campaign boxes and guides were ever intended to 'nail down' everything.
They were supposed to be used to help you develop your own "Products of Imagination"! |
