| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 04:05:53
They have it in Narnia (and Santa hands out deadly weapons), so why not the Realms?
Anyhow, I am watching some silly holiday special with Whoopi Golberg, and I just realized Santa is a mage (Magi?), and he's got an artifact-class bag-of-holding! 
He also mentions quantum mechanics in regards to how he is able to do all that in one night - so I think he may have a few levels of portal-master (wormholes). And then there is the fact he stops aging, so he must be someone's Chosen.
Anyone else have any fun ideas about the holidays and D&D/FR? |
| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| GMWestermeyer |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 16:59:06
I love Santa, and I love the Realms, natural fit. :)
For a good look at how Santa can be used in a pagan fantasy setting, look at Frank L. Baum's The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus. Santa is firmly in the World of Oz, and the Baum's tale is available on Project Gutenberg for free. This story is also an excellent example of how a mortal is chosen to become a deity.
You can also check out my column in the current Knights of the Dinner Table, #182 (December 2011.
quote:
Off the Shelf: Santa Claus in Fantasy Fiction by Paul Westermeyer
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| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 23:46:10
I believe that Malar has his own version of a High Hunt, as does Vaerhaun. But I digress. MT, I LOVE that idea of flying wolves chasing flying deer, LOL!!! Perhaps Santa DOES exist in the Realms.... |
| Lady Shadowflame |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 16:45:34
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Hrm, I seem to remember that Eilistraee's followers have feasts during the solstices, and as a deity who wishes to spread joy and good will, and aid those in need, as well as being a moon-related deity, she might make a good candidate for a female "Santa".
Well, taking into account the usual practices of Eilistraee's followers... a bunch of nekkid drow running about might be considered a solstice gift in their own right.
Gender of said drow left entirely to the specifications of the gift recipient, of course. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 02:50:59
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Hmph - you guys gave me another idea.
I was thinking about Santa's reindeer, and I thought special animals like that were more in-line with the Earthmother. And then I read what you guys are discussing, and I thought about the Flying Hunt (and Huntsmen) - what would flying wolves be hunting? Flying deer, of course! 
Maybe the Huntsmen and the Spirit of Winter are old enemies; now I'm thinking Celtic/Fey again. Perhaps their is some sort of 'flying cavalcade' (and Archfey) associated with each season?
.
*Chuckles* The High Hunt exists in many ways in the Earth myths and the Realms. In fact some of the "High Hunts" in the Realms I have came across clearly not the same as Eilistraee's.
Eilistraee does not reach the status of Earth Mother, however flying wolves clearly could be possible. Even a Christmas Dragon should you wish. In the Realms there are already many things that fly, all that is needed is a plan and desire to spread joy on a certain solar event.
There are many possibilities, us mere mortals can never fully understand the ways of higher powers. What little known is based on seen or reported events. *G* |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 02:32:22
Hmph - you guys gave me another idea.
I was thinking about Santa's reindeer, and I thought special animals like that were more in-line with the Earthmother. And then I read what you guys are discussing, and I thought about the Flying Hunt (and Huntsmen) - what would flying wolves be hunting? Flying deer, of course!
Maybe the Huntsmen and the Spirit of Winter are old enemies; now I'm thinking Celtic/Fey again. Perhaps their is some sort of 'flying cavalcade' (and Archfey) associated with each season? |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 01:47:12
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Source is the 2nd ed era Demihuman Deities book, in the entry on her under Drow Pantheon. It listed her "holy days" and rituals, ceremonies, and gave some particulars on when/how they are held. The best darn source for non-human deities TSR/WotC ever made, IMO.
Do you mean this?
quote:
The High Hunt is celebrated at least once in each of the four seasons:
a night-time hunt of a dangerous beast or monster, led by priests of
Eilistraee. By tradition, the hunters may use any bladed weapons, and
wear anything-except the priests, who go naked, carrying only a single
sword. If the quarry is slain, a chanted prayer and circle dance to
the goddess is held.
One of the best sources, F&P was less detailed, Dragon 176 provided some minor fillers. Of course there clearly are other sources that might be found, as well. If we are to continue this discussion of sources perhaps another thread should be started as we are wandering away from Christmas. I some ways as I read it the Chosen would give gifts every day they have a chance to do so. That solar matters little to them except for the seasons and the year. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 01:33:23
Source is the 2nd ed era Demihuman Deities book, in the entry on her under Drow Pantheon. It listed her "holy days" and rituals, ceremonies, and gave some particulars on when/how they are held. The best darn source for non-human deities TSR/WotC ever made, IMO. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 01:03:09
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
The High Hunts you mentioned are part of the solstice and equinox observations of her faith,
Source? Once during a season does not mean the end or start of a season. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 00:50:36
The High Hunts you mentioned are part of the solstice and equinox observations of her faith, which conicide with the four mian solar feasts of most pagan religions. That was why I thought it a good fit. They are also usually followed by a feast and dancing of some sort- which is of course another X-Mas staple. The gift-giving aspect fits with their every-day creed, but I think they might go to extra special effort at that time, since it is often cold and people tend to be hungrier then. I could see them taking in orphans and sick people (charity) exchanging gifts with strangers and travelers (joy) and merry-making in general for the Solstice. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 00:39:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't see it working... Ao doesn't give an osquip's behind about mortals, and has in fact taken steps to make sure mortals don't know about him.
Indeed. Which is largely why the Cult of Ao, some of whom were wizards and priests, were never granted spells by Ao [or thought they were, as far as we know]. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 23:59:58
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Hrm, I seem to remember that Eilistraee's followers have feasts during the solstices, and as a deity who wishes to spread joy and good will, and aid those in need, as well as being a moon-related deity, she might make a good candidate for a female "Santa".
Well all things are possible, however Eilistraee is a lunar deity. The sources I looked at both 2nd and 3rd appear to indicate the only solar concerns are the High Hunt, one occurring sometime each season and the Run which occurs once a year. Giving aid and spreading joy when possible is a daily activity.
This is not to say some followers might not do something on the Winter Moon that might be close to what Christmas would be considered to be on Earth. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 23:19:35
True enough, MT. I was simply thinking of a likely candidate for the celebration of a season of giving and good-will. She seemed like a natural fit- perhaps in the vein of the Christmas Fairy/Angel story. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 23:12:48
Well, I'm seeing the whole 'Yuletide/Winter Soltice' celebration being a cross-faith thing, with the followers of various deities (even the 'evil' ones) having their own traditions.
However, I don't see a 'Santa figure' as being part of some multi-faith thing. He would be part of everyone's seasonal stories, but not faith-specific (at least, not specific to any Realms deity). On the other hand, if he is connected to some ancient Celtic/Fey deity, the Fey originated on Toril, so it comes full-circle regardless.
What I can see is one of the many Saints (Exarchs/demi-powers) that serve Ilmater serving as Faerûn's Gift-giver. Ilmater's church seems the closest to principle of giving charity to others, and what is a gift, if not charity? It would be more along the lines of what a person needs, rather then extravagant luxury items (like in today's RW). At the same time, I could see Waterdeep's nobles (and others) taking a sweet, southern tradition of exchanging gifts (something Arabian cultures - upon which Calimshan is some-what based - is known for), and turning it into something ostentatious (and ugly, because it twists the original intent). I can almost see Siamorphe embracing this tradition for her followers during the season (and adding the regal red coat). |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 22:29:06
Hrm, I seem to remember that Eilistraee's followers have feasts during the solstices, and as a deity who wishes to spread joy and good will, and aid those in need, as well as being a moon-related deity, she might make a good candidate for a female "Santa". |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 21:01:53
In addition to almost no one knowing he exists in the first place...Don't people who worship try to Ao sometimes disappear, too?
I think something like Christmas would be celebrated wherever it gets cold and dark in winter to compensate for the resulting depression. As a celebration of light Selune seems like the most likely deity to be the main deity of any such festivities, probably combined with other deities like Lliira (to bring happiness). But people would probably just worship whichever deity they happen to worship wherever they are, such a celebration doesn't have to be religious in nature at all. Just a celebration to bring happiness on the longest, and coldest nights. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 20:17:21
That's why I was going for an 'unknown, ancient deity', multi-spheric in nature, to avoid any conflicts within the known FR pantheon. It has the same 'above all that' quality you were looking for with Ao, without having to graduate to an Over-Power (I'm just not seeing beings on that level caring one wit about mortals).
Although we do have canon where Ao speaks directly with Elminster, so you never know. It could just be that Chosen carry just enough 'divine spark' so as not to be beneath the notice of Over-Powers. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 19:50:53
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfhound75
A minor thought to add to the 'non-denominational' thought someone proffered. It might need some working through so please feel free to point out flaws in the premise or implementation or eve just kick around ideas.
Since the premise was put forth that a little bit of this might belong to every god in the realms pantheon, why couldn't he be associated with Ao? As the 'overgod' each diety could then choose to use whatever parts of Ao's Yule/Solstice 'master plan' that they wish. Perhaps this one time per year is the motivation for Ao to roust himself out of his apparent disregard to bestow blessings upon the realms to those desperately in need.
I think there are tons of open space for some great fantasy interpretations and ideas so long as they fit your campaign.
Thoughts by anyone else?
*Disclaimer*
I admit my personal understanding of the way the pantheon works may be limited in comparison to other scribes who have spent more time studying this portion of the realms. It may not be a tenable idea. Most especially since I've never taken the time to really delve into Ao and his workings in Realmspace and subsequent withdrawl.
I don't see it working... Ao doesn't give an osquip's behind about mortals, and has in fact taken steps to make sure mortals don't know about him. |
| Wolfhound75 |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 19:22:15
A minor thought to add to the 'non-denominational' thought someone proffered. It might need some working through so please feel free to point out flaws in the premise or implementation or eve just kick around ideas.
Since the premise was put forth that a little bit of this might belong to every god in the realms pantheon, why couldn't he be associated with Ao? As the 'overgod' each diety could then choose to use whatever parts of Ao's Yule/Solstice 'master plan' that they wish. Perhaps this one time per year is the motivation for Ao to roust himself out of his apparent disregard to bestow blessings upon the realms to those desperately in need.
I think there are tons of open space for some great fantasy interpretations and ideas so long as they fit your campaign.
Thoughts by anyone else?
*Disclaimer*
I admit my personal understanding of the way the pantheon works may be limited in comparison to other scribes who have spent more time studying this portion of the realms. It may not be a tenable idea. Most especially since I've never taken the time to really delve into Ao and his workings in Realmspace and subsequent withdrawl. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 16:59:41
Yes, TY - very interesting. 
There is also a 'Grandfather Winter' in WoW, which began with the Dwarves, but is now celebrated amongst other races as well.
Seems most settings have a 'Santa'. Could be there are local 'Santas', and all are just Chosen/Exarchs of some multi-spheric power. I like the 'Grandfather Winter' angle used in Warcraft - perhaps he is some little-known Dwarven deity of cold and winter... maybe even the father of the Raven Queen (going back to my/our "Fey/Celtic origins for everything"). Then again, he would work better as a Fey power... hmmmmm... we could tie him to Auril as well (the 'Winter King' may be the father of both Titania & the QoAaD). I might use some of this in the 'Legends of Faerûn' thread.
The sleigh would be an artifact as well - probably something created by the Dvergar (Planer dwarves) originally for the Aesir. I'm thinking it is fashioned along the same lines as those planes-hopping ships - I know Fiends have one written-up somewhere in RAW. The sleigh would use the Feywild's natural space-compression to travel quickly, whereas I would imagine the fiendish ships use the Shadowfel (based on my own cosmology, of course - nothing canon).
EDIT: And now I'm picturing - thanks to Sage's post - Elminster himself as a sort-of 'local Santa' for the Dales. Saint Aumar... I DO like the sound of that. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 10:00:05
That's interesting, Wooly. Thanks for the link. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 09:54:57
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They have it in Narnia (and Santa hands out deadly weapons), so why not the Realms?
Anyhow, I am watching some silly holiday special with Whoopi Golberg, and I just realized Santa is a mage (Magi?), and he's got an artifact-class bag-of-holding!
He also mentions quantum mechanics in regards to how he is able to do all that in one night - so I think he may have a few levels of portal-master (wormholes). And then there is the fact he stops aging, so he must be someone's Chosen.
Anyone else have any fun ideas about the holidays and D&D/FR?
Officially, he's a Drd13/Clr5/Rog2.
Where does this come from? Well, check out this thread -- Ghosts of Christmas Past: Santa in 3.x
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| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 07:36:26
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I'm actually rather fond of Terry Pratchett's pseudo-pagan treatment of Santa Claus, the Hogfather. One of those bits of profundity he sometimes slips in between the lines.
Back in December '05, I ran a side-quest for my weekly FR campaign which featured the "new" Hogfather:- http://www.au.lspace.org/art/kidby/xmsdth.jpg
'Twas Myrkul in disguise!  |
| Dennis |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 07:31:38
Which deities would most likely encourage a Christmas-like celebration? Auril? Lady Luck? Mystra? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 06:56:46
I'm actually rather fond of Terry Pratchett's pseudo-pagan treatment of Santa Claus, the Hogfather. One of those bits of profundity he sometimes slips in between the lines.
I suppose the day (or night) of the winter solstice is a significant astronomical (and astrological) annual occurrence within the Realms, and that many of the various gods would somehow commemorate it ... some would perhaps celebrate it in much the same manner that we do. Other deities however (like, say, Shar or Cyric) might demand a very different sort of celebration. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 06:07:22
The closest equivalent to Christmas/Yule in the Realms is Midwinter -- Deadwinter Day, the world's death before being born.
Additionally, from Ed back in December 2004:-
quote:
BrokenRulz, Ed hereafter makes answer to your question: “How does Elminster celebrate the Yuletide/Soltice?”
The axial tilt, size, and rotational period of Toril are close to our Earth’s but not identical. Solstices do occur, and at such times “the Weave shines forth most brightly” in the Realms.
Which is the bardic way of saying that at such times there’s some restlessness in Mystra, due to her origins (Selune), and the Weave is therefore more active than at most other times (with surges of raw magical energy washing back and forth, sometimes ‘powering up’ cast spells to greater damage, duration, or area of effect than would normally be possible, and more often spitting off unintended wild magic side effects). Beyond such happenings, this time of year has little greater significance to Mystra and her Chosen. However, Elminster has visited our Earth often, and is familiar with Yule celebrations and the more modern commercial Christmas. (So, to a much more limited extent, are Laeral and The Simbul and Storm.)
El has little use for presents and much of the foolishness associated with the etiquette of modern organized faiths of any sort, but it pleases his nature to do at Yuletide what he’s always done as a Chosen: help folk and support their belief in magic or strength of Sense of Wonder.
In other words, he gives gifts of food, unlooked-for aid, and spell-cast warmth and shelter to those in need in the bitter winter cold, AND enjoys playing a mysterious Father Christmas figure, especially if he can do small acts of magic observed by one or two beings at a time rather than large audiences, so he can foster a belief in magic in those observers (awakening awe in adults - - and teenagers who’ve just scornfully stopped believing in Santa Claus - - of our world, in particular).
He enjoys showing up wherever I am, late on the night of Christmas Eve/wee hours of Christmas morning, and letting me see his wink and wave as he works some small magic to awe a youngster. And downs something handy from my wine cellar or liquour cabinet, too.
So saith Ed.
A night or two late for this Christmas, but the Master of the Realms keeps up with his Candlekeep answers as best he can at this frenetic (both for writing and family celebrations) time of year.
love to all,
THO
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| Dennis |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 04:58:12
Santa is Samas Kul's clone. It would be inconvenient for a zulkir to ride a sleigh wherever he goes, that's why he uses a floating chair instead. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 04:23:56
Well there clearly have been solstice celebrations cerebrated by other faiths in the Realms, few would be quite like Christmas. Of course Santa Claus certainly can planner travel and IIRC has visited the Realms in the past. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 04:16:54
Maybe Santa Claus emigrated to the realms and that's why we can't find him in the real world = P Living with his "Elves" (Pixies, sprites, Courre hmmmm?) on the Great Glacier.
I think he would be non-denominational, and not a chosen. Wish spells, potions of longevity, or just some unique nature (Is Santa human... or a saint? or angel?) |
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