| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| perm |
Posted - 31 Oct 2011 : 10:42:26
is this right? I read it here http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tahlshara
And it is listed as a +8 two handed sword. Seems a bit odd as a +6 weapon seems pretty good for gods and demon lords. Thought I suppose the lore behind it makes sense, the greatest elven cratfsman in history devoting her life to make it over more than a century. But is this +8 bonus right? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 05 Sep 2019 : 02:37:58
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Not only +8, but also Save-vs-Death any N'Tel'Quessir it touches.
That is backwards. Its not any non elf it touches, its any non elf that touches it. Its like the blade rite tests from the Cormanthyr set. Only elves can wield it, is the idea. Anyone else who tries is dead. Just like moonblades... usually.
|
| LordofBones |
Posted - 03 Sep 2019 : 01:00:40
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I thought BABs stacked? A +8 sword is just like swinging a dwarf fighter 8 at a monster. What else do you use dwarves for?
:-)
Dwarves are good for three things:
1) Making alcohol
2) Making metal goodies, such as weapons and armor
3) Making surprisingly tasty nachos for parties and watching sporting events. It's widely believed that this is a side-effect of the Thunder Blessing. However, though dwarves can handle it with ease, do not under any circumstances try their "Surtur's Breath" salsa -- it can only be served in adamantium serving dishes and has been known to dissolve ferrous metals quicker than a swarm of rust monsters.
This Orc bookseller from Oblivion sympathizes with non-conformist dwarves:
"I am SICK of Orcs coming in here and giving me the business. 'Ooh. Bugak got a book store. Ooh. Bugak's a sissy scroll-scribbler!'" |
| Barastir |
Posted - 02 Sep 2019 : 19:17:16
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
(...)
Also, practically this means an embedded selu'kiira, with "uploaded" mind of a High Mage -
(...)
The sourcebook doesn't imply it. In fact, selu'kiira lore was introduced later, and I think the very concept was created afterwards.
As for later edition or products, some items of the book were later mentioned, like the sword Morvian and the moonblades, for example.
EDIT: But my question was more or less answered by Wooly. It probably was not rewritten or mentioned because of a lack of detail on Evermeet and Amlaruil in later editions. And that's what I wonder about. I know Amlaruil would not lend it to adventurers, but a novel or product could explore the sword's use on defense of the People (Evermeet's invasion, anyone?), or an occasional loss or stealing of the blade (imagine it on the hands of the Eldreth Veluuthra, for example). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Sep 2019 : 17:10:13
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Just remembering this post, about one of the three great treasures of Evermeet. I wonder why the sword and the other treasures - along with Amlaruil's chariot - haven't been mentioned in later products/editions...
Which products? Also, what for? It's not like the Queen will lend it to some adventurer on a rat-stomping quest. 
There is a heck of a lot of stuff that appears in one edition and never again... Especially with 2E stuff, since that volume of Realmslore hasn't been matched since. I'd go as far as saying that ALL the Realmslore we've gotten since 2E doesn't equal the amount received in 2E. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 02 Sep 2019 : 16:27:50
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Thinking a bit more about this blade's power, maybe the wielder could even participate in Rituals of Complement or Myriad.
Indeed, the point of this power seems to be having an extra caster for rituals.
Also, practically this means an embedded selu'kiira, with "uploaded" mind of a High Mage - i.e. even beyond basic security measures, unlike a wand (or ring of wishes) it's not servile, and may be far less agreeable than "common" sort of intelligent weapons. From the description of The Rulers' Blade of Cormanthyr:
quote:
Cormanthyr:
Core Power: Thanks to the two selu'kiira bonded to the ends of the quillons (black gems) and a single one on the
tang button of the pommel (a red gem), the wielder becomes Coronal and holds the power and knowledge of three
High Mages (in addition to any abilities of his own). This allows him to conduct Rituals of Solitude or Complement
entirely on his own, and all known rituals are at the Coronal's disposal through the knowledge of the selu'kiira.
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Just remembering this post, about one of the three great treasures of Evermeet. I wonder why the sword and the other treasures - along with Amlaruil's chariot - haven't been mentioned in later products/editions...
Which products? Also, what for? It's not like the Queen will lend it to some adventurer on a rat-stomping quest. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Sep 2019 : 15:05:15
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I thought BABs stacked? A +8 sword is just like swinging a dwarf fighter 8 at a monster. What else do you use dwarves for?
:-)
Dwarves are good for three things:
1) Making alcohol
2) Making metal goodies, such as weapons and armor
3) Making surprisingly tasty nachos for parties and watching sporting events. It's widely believed that this is a side-effect of the Thunder Blessing. However, though dwarves can handle it with ease, do not under any circumstances try their "Surtur's Breath" salsa -- it can only be served in adamantium serving dishes and has been known to dissolve ferrous metals quicker than a swarm of rust monsters. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 02 Sep 2019 : 12:36:50
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I thought BABs stacked? A +8 sword is just like swinging a dwarf fighter 8 at a monster. What else do you use dwarves for?
:-)
Somehow I couldn't find a picture of Thor hurling Rocket around in the big battle at the end of Infinity War |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 02 Sep 2019 : 11:51:42
I thought BABs stacked? A +8 sword is just like swinging a dwarf fighter 8 at a monster. What else do you use dwarves for?
:-) |
| Barastir |
Posted - 02 Sep 2019 : 11:45:15
Just remembering this post, about one of the three great treasures of Evermeet. I wonder why the sword and the other treasures - along with Amlaruil's chariot - haven't been mentioned in later products/editions... Maybe because they were too powerful? |
| Barastir |
Posted - 20 Nov 2012 : 14:36:44
Thinking a bit more about this blade's power, maybe the wielder could even participate in Rituals of Complement or Myriad. Of course, participating would involve having the cooperation of other High Mages... And I wonder if the benefit of casting High magic without ill effects would work only for the Queen (or the King, or the Royal House), or if it would extend to any true High Mage, combining the Selutaar and the sword's power. However, I think the limitation to the Royal House (or maybe both - High Mages of the royal bloodline) would be the best, since there is precedence in the Cormanthyr sourcebook. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 13:56:41
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
The assumption there would be that all elves (except the drow, who can't wield the weapon anyway) have goodness in their heart. I understand that rituals of solitude are basically the equivalent of variously leveled spells, but the one thing that the high mages (of current age) would always want to be careful of is not making something out of hubris that in a twist of magic could be made to work differently. Therefore, since rituals of solitude basically just do things that spells do, then why would they consider opening that doorway even a crack?
I don't know, but it seemed to be the idea of the game designers when they first developed the sword. And let's remember about the risk in casting High Magic - and in using other abilities of the sword, like the Vorpal function. After all, only the Queen of Evermeet, who is already a High Mage, can use the powers without risk. Besides, I was aware of the mistake on automatically associating elves and good alignment, but this is a misjudgement I see the elves comitting. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 11:54:50
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Since it's the ultimate elven weapon, I think it is plausible to think that the powers of the sword should also be adapted to the newer High magic Ritual rules. 
I don't... its a sword, so anyone... especially non-wizards... would be able to wield it. The Queen apparently can use it without having to worry about the high magic effects, even if her alignment is magically affected. Also, essentially any elf could wield the weapon no matter their alignment. This would give High Magic spells to whoever picked it up. To include High Magic Rituals as well would be insane on the part of the high mages to include in a weapon.
The High Magic side effects are a strong limitation, and remember that the sword can kill any non-elves that touch it (including dhaerow), and recall especially that the sword powers don't work for the N'Tel'Quessir and drow.
In the original text from Elves of Evermeet:
"Infused with the magic of the Seldarine, the
weapon's powers cannot be used by non-elves.
Any non-elf touching the weapon must successfully
save vs. death magic or be instantly slain.
This prohibition extends, not surprisingly,
to Drow, regardless of their alignment."
It is considered possibly the most powerful elven weapon in history, so I think yes, its powers would be true High Magic, even if they were limited to Rituals of Solitude only.
The assumption there would be that all elves (except the drow, who can't wield the weapon anyway) have goodness in their heart. I understand that rituals of solitude are basically the equivalent of variously leveled spells, but the one thing that the high mages (of current age) would always want to be careful of is not making something out of hubris that in a twist of magic could be made to work differently. Therefore, since rituals of solitude basically just do things that spells do, then why would they consider opening that doorway even a crack?
|
| Barastir |
Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 09:34:46
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Since it's the ultimate elven weapon, I think it is plausible to think that the powers of the sword should also be adapted to the newer High magic Ritual rules.
I don't... its a sword, so anyone... especially non-wizards... would be able to wield it. The Queen apparently can use it without having to worry about the high magic effects, even if her alignment is magically affected. Also, essentially any elf could wield the weapon no matter their alignment. This would give High Magic spells to whoever picked it up. To include High Magic Rituals as well would be insane on the part of the high mages to include in a weapon.
The High Magic side effects are a strong limitation, and remember that the sword can kill any non-elves that touch it (including dhaerow), and that the sword powers don't work for the N'Tel'Quessir and drow.
In the original text from Elves of Evermeet:
"Infused with the magic of the Seldarine, the
weapon's powers cannot be used by non-elves.
Any non-elf touching the weapon must successfully
save vs. death magic or be instantly slain.
This prohibition extends, not surprisingly,
to Drow, regardless of their alignment."
It is considered possibly the most powerful elven weapon in history, so I think yes, its powers would be true High Magic, even if they were limited to Rituals of Solitude only.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 15 Nov 2012 : 15:10:25
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
True, they did come out with newer High Magic rules later. However High Magic Rituals and High Magic Spells are two different things. The sword specifically says High Magic Spells, which are listed in Elves of Evermeet. (...)
Well, that's because that was the way High Magic worked back then... Since it's the ultimate elven weapon, I think it is plausible to think that the powers of the sword should also be adapted to the newer High magic Ritual rules.
I don't... its a sword, so anyone... especially non-wizards... would be able to wield it. The Queen apparently can use it without having to worry about the high magic effects, even if her alignment is magically affected. Also, essentially any elf could wield the weapon no matter their alignment. This would give High Magic spells to whoever picked it up. To include High Magic Rituals as well would be insane on the part of the high mages to include in a weapon. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 15 Nov 2012 : 02:44:45
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
True, they did come out with newer High Magic rules later. However High Magic Rituals and High Magic Spells are two different things. The sword specifically says High Magic Spells, which are listed in Elves of Evermeet. (...)
Well, that's because that was the way High Magic worked back then... Since it's the ultimate elven weapon, I think it is plausible to think that the powers of the sword should also be adapted to the newer High magic Ritual rules. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 20:24:40
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
2nd edition rules. High magic at that time wasn't the same thing as the 3rd edition equivalent. They were 1st-9th lvl spells that were "high magic" spells. 3rd edition made them epic spells.
Kind of... Actually, in Elves of Evermeet there were High Magic spells of 8th and 9th level. In Cormanthyr the game designers adjusted them so High magic was beyond the 9-level system, but they said there were some ordinary spells that simulated High Magic effects (and in fact the new High Magic Rituals expanded the more limited spell effects).
But maybe the blade only allowed "Rituals of Solitude", High Magic rituals that could be cast by one person only (although it is not specified in the sword powers' list). The point is that I was mixing the description of Tahlshara with the powers of the avatar of Corellon Larethian in Demihuman Deities. This avatar could cast alone High magic that would need a High Magi Circle.
PS: I thought that in 3.5e bonuses above +5 were only to add powers to a blade, but that the bonuses couldn't be improved beyond +5. Being so, a sword would be up to +5, but with additional powers that raised to a equivalent of up to +10. This limitation exists, or I got it wrong?
True, they did come out with newer High Magic rules later. However High Magic Rituals and High Magic Spells are two different things. The sword specifically says High Magic Spells, which are listed in Elves of Evermeet. Cormanthyr came out 4 years later and has restrictions on high mages that if they're going to be doing high magic rituals they can't have any spells memorized, etc.... so it specifically differentiates the two.
The way I'd take that to mean if it were ported over to 3rd edition would be that elven High Mages would have a special spell list in addition to their arcane list (kind of like how the Hathrans get specific spells). Of course, that didn't happen, but if I were to actually have someone that was going to use the prestige class, I'd probably work with them to convert some of the old spells. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 19:03:59
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Note also that the King Sword also accepted their son Lamruil when he forced her to step down during Kymil's attempted coup. As soon as it did, he truned around and had Kymil arrested- since weilding the sword was proof that he was king. And then he gave it back to her. So there are two accepted wielders of it at present.
It's because he didn't claim it (and the throne), although he was worthy. The sword accepted him, but Lamruil didn't take it. So, the sword remained with his mother the Queen, and I'm sure it would judge him again if he decided to draw it later (maybe something changes in the future). So, technically it remains with only one wielder.
And we should remember that Lamruil is Arilyn's blade heir, so if nothing happened to impede this, he would be able chose, in the future, between the King Sword and an adventurer's moonblade (in service to the People, of course).
I just haven't detailed it very much because this thread is about Tahlshara, not about the King Sword (that was never given an elven name, and I called Selu'Cor'Aryvel - the noble blade of the High King - in my Realms).
Actually, he did indeed claim both- for all of about five minutes. Since he was recognized by the sword AND all present (no one was going to argue with the blade, knowing the consequences of a failed attempt. Since he survived the claiming, he WAS king!) as the legitimate ruler, those in the room obeyed without question when he ordered Kymil arrested (which had been his gambit from the beginning, apparently). Amlaruil was technically "dead" (in Arvandor) at the time, and when he relinquished it, she returned to claim it again. So althoughthere is only one current wielder, there are two accepted wielders. |
| althen artren |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 16:36:47
Up to epic level play, +10 is the limit for PC made weapons to be.
Now if a DM has a good reason to exceed that for story purposes, so it goes.
|
| Barastir |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 15:42:54
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
2nd edition rules. High magic at that time wasn't the same thing as the 3rd edition equivalent. They were 1st-9th lvl spells that were "high magic" spells. 3rd edition made them epic spells.
Kind of... Actually, in Elves of Evermeet there were High Magic spells of 8th and 9th level. In Cormanthyr the game designers adjusted them so High magic was beyond the 9-level system, but they said there were some ordinary spells that simulated High Magic effects (and in fact the new High Magic Rituals expanded the more limited spell effects).
But maybe the blade only allowed "Rituals of Solitude", High Magic rituals that could be cast by one person only (although it is not specified in the sword powers' list). The point is that I was mixing the description of Tahlshara with the powers of the avatar of Corellon Larethian in Demihuman Deities. This avatar could cast alone High magic that would need a High Magi Circle.
PS: I thought that in 3.5e bonuses above +5 were only to add powers to a blade, but that the bonuses couldn't be improved beyond +5. Being so, a sword would be up to +5, but with additional powers that raised to a equivalent of up to +10. This limitation exists, or I got it wrong?
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 14:53:49
I think rather than focusing on the +8 bonus, it would be of interest to see what this sword would be when converted to 3.5 rules. Just as an experiment, I'm going to try and break down the weapon.
+8 enhancement bonus (recommendation, replace this with say a +3 enhancement bonus and the skillful feature from complete arcane, not as powerful, but makes the weapon usable by any class no matter their BAB/profs) - equivalence +5 bonus
+10 unclassified AC bonus that doesn't stack with armor/etc.... (recommendation, replace this with the defending feature) - equivalence +1 bonus
vorpal - keep this the same in effect, but make note of the earlier hindrance. Enacting this effect in 2nd edition required a roll on the high magic table (which drained attributes, aged the person, etc...). This should possibly be considered an activatable power that can only be activated on a natural 20 rather than the standard +5.
sunburst - treat as the 3rd edition spell
teleport without error - treat as the 3rd edition spell
turnshadow-
teleport dead -
spelltrap - I don't think this was ever converted to 3E?? I used to love this spell. Could be replaced with spell turning. Note that using it also caused the high magic effects as mentioned for vorpal
cast any high magic spell - replace this with say "greater anyspell" and lose the need for this to create a high magic effect
spellstrike - I absolutely forget what this ability did in second edition. Was it like magebane or was it like spell storing?
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 13:36:56
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Casting any high magic part is absurd, does that include the Killing Storm, the tsunami that destroyed Jhaamdath, Dracorage Mythal and the Sundering?
2nd edition rules. High magic at that time wasn't the same thing as the 3rd edition equivalent. They were 1st-9th lvl spells that were "high magic" spells. 3rd edition made them epic spells. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 09:49:33
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Note also that the King Sword also accepted their son Lamruil when he forced her to step down during Kymil's attempted coup. As soon as it did, he truned around and had Kymil arrested- since weilding the sword was proof that he was king. And then he gave it back to her. So there are two accepted wielders of it at present.
It's because he didn't claim it (and the throne), although he was worthy. The sword accepted him, but Lamruil didn't take it. So, the sword remained with his mother the Queen, and I'm sure it would judge him again if he decided to draw it later (maybe something changes in the future). So, technically it remains with only one wielder.
And we should remember that Lamruil is Arilyn's blade heir, so if nothing happened to impede this, he would be able chose, in the future, between the King Sword and an adventurer's moonblade (in service to the People, of course).
I just haven't detailed it very much because this thread is about Tahlshara, not about the King Sword (that was never given an elven name, and I called Selu'Cor'Kerym - the sword of the High King - in my Realms). |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 02:06:02
LOL!!!! I thought I was the only one who remembered that weapon! You pulled that from the Encyclopedia Magica? Nice. I always wanted to pull that one on my players, just never quite found the right opportunity..... It should be mentioned, however, that it was part of a contest done by Dragon Magazine and came with a warning to NEVER let a player get their hands on it! |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 01:47:59
quote:
The Sword of Babette Maelstrom XP Value: 1,000,000 GP Value: 10,000,000 "Babette's formidable weapon is a long sword +5, +10 vs. regenerating creatures, and +15 vs. dragons. Once a year, the sword can: -Cause an explosion, 200-foot radius, 200d100 (200-20,000) points of damage. -Create a sphere of force, as per the wall of force spell; and dispel magic at the 45th level." Info from the AD&D Encycolpedia Magica, vol. 4
'nuff said... |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 00:48:53
Note also that the King Sword also accepted their son Lamruil when he forced her to step down during Kymil's attempted coup. As soon as it did, he truned around and had Kymil arrested- since weilding the sword was proof that he was king. And then he gave it back to her. So there are two accepted wielders of it at present. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 16:00:08
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
(the story of Zaor and Amlaruil, and of the moonblades, is detailed in Evermeet: Island of the Elves.
Yep, one of my favorite FR Stories |
| Barastir |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 15:21:49
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
I thought it was a moonblade? The moonblade in fact. A sword that gains powers from every additional user, but becomes more dangerous every time. Moonblades were Used to judge which family would rule based on which line kept their moonblades the longest.
Maybe I am wrong, but i always thought that sword was the reason Amlauruil's line was the ruling line.
No that was Zaors sword. She was queen because she married him and she staid queen because she was the choosen of the seldarine I guess.
In fact, Zaor's moonblade - the king sword - accepted Amlaruil just before they got married, and stayed with her after the king's death (the story of Zaor and Amlaruil, and of the moonblades, is detailed in Evermeet: Island of the Elves. Unfortunately, Tahlshara is not mentioned in this great novel, but only in the Elves of Evermeet 2e sourcebook). |
| Razz |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 15:19:27
Be aware that true epic rules didn't come about until 3e. If they were to restat the gods equipment, I am sure they'll all be insanely powerful epic magic items. The problem is that artifacts weren't scaled high enough to counter what epic magic items can do. |
| _Jarlaxle_ |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 15:17:40
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
I thought it was a moonblade? The moonblade in fact. A sword that gains powers from every additional user, but becomes more dangerous every time. Moonblades were Used to judge which family would rule based on which line kept their moonblades the longest.
Maybe I am wrong, but i always thought that sword was the reason Amlauruil's line was the ruling line.
No that was Zaors sword. She was queen because she married him and she staid queen because she was the choosen of the seldarine I guess. |
| Barastir |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 15:14:40
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
I thought it was a moonblade? The moonblade in fact. A sword that gains powers from every additional user, but becomes more dangerous every time. Moonblades were Used to judge which family would rule based on which line kept their moonblades the longest.
Maybe I am wrong, but i always thought that sword was the reason Amlauruil's line was the ruling line.
No, there are two different swords: the king sword, that was Zaor's moonblade, and Tahlshara. All the moonblades were enchanted in a distant past to choose the royal lineage of Evermeet, forged by different craftsmen and enchanted in a High Magic ritual by the sage Ethlando. Tahlshara was forged and enchanted by the elven armorer Kythaela Durothil, and is considered her life's work.
Even if the moonblades grew in power with every new user, it in fact made it very difficult for new owners to master all the powers of a blade that survived for many generations, accordingly to Mrs. Cunningham. Tahlshara, on the other hand, have a set of well-defined powers, including the casting of any High Magic Ritual (even those that normally would demand a High Magi circle). As someone said in other thread, maybe moonblades would be minor artifacts, while Tahlshara would be a major artifact, the greatest elven weapon ever. |
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