| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ergont |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 09:06:39
Hello everyone.
Sorry for my bad English - it isn't my native one, I'm Russian.
I have some questions about some geographical names of the Realms. Why? Because we with my friends are fond of FR setting and we want to popularize it among Russians. So we are translating FR books, maps and articles (not for money, of course. We are just altruists and funs).
You know, there are a lot of, mmm, compound names (don't know English analogue of this word, sorry) on Abeir-Toril map and in cores there are no helpful information why these places have such a names.
So...
Kryptgarden forest - what does it mean? There is the crypt in the garden in the forest or it is just a hidden garden in the forest? Why krypt?
Furthinghome - I tried to find some information about it. My first thought was it is farthinghome because it is a trade city so it is logical to suppose that they speak about farthing, money. The second thought was they mean the place where one can buy fur. But there are no fur animals. So what does it mean?
Delhalls - we have no any ideas except "hollow halls" or "hollow caverns". What does it mean?
Surcross - I'm confused because of "sur-".
Theymarsh - Who are, the nine hells, these "they"? People? Snakes or any other swamp things?
Ironhar - hmm, the first part is very simple but what is about "-har"? Is it some acronym?
Thank you for attention.
P.S. Sorry if I broke some rule about creating topics. I thought that General Forgotten Realms Chat is a right choice to ask such a questions.
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| 26 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 18:38:39
There are TWO Rimlosts.
No... seriously... I created some homebrew lore regarding this, which I believe Ed (Via THO) gave me a 'no-prize' for (in other words, my logic sounded like an exceptable theory regarding the duel lore - and placement! - of Rimlost).
There is lore in the Campaign Guide (IIRC), and then completely different lore in an online article - I can't remeber the specifics. I included both placements on my Larakond (Returned Abeir) Map, with a minor spelling change to distinguish them.
I can't remember how I connected the two, but it should be around here in some thread or other. I didn't create anything for the 'real' Rimlost, but I think I did explain the name in regards to the secondary settlement (in the far north of the continent) - something to do with it being originally called 'Grimroost', or some-such, and then being renamed (and re-purposed) by the same group that was associated with the other Rimlost. Mostly my own HB fix, mind you.
That's all I remember - you have to check the online (DDi) articles to find the specifics. |
| Ergont |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 13:32:13
Hello! This time I have a problem with Rimlost. Any ideas? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Sep 2011 : 21:42:42
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Although a fairly recent trend amongst certain ethnic groups is to take 2 or more names you like and create a new name from some of the syllables, (snip)
I actually did that for my wife, when she decided to try playing Lord of the Rings Online. She couldn't think of a name for her toon, so I pondered for a minute and then suggested one that combined the first and middle names for one of the baby names we'd picked out. I did that because I figured creating a name that way would make her feel more connected to the character. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Sep 2011 : 21:34:32
I concur - linguistics (both RW and how it applies to SF/fantasy settings) is one of my primary interests. I don't have any credentials to that effect, just a great love of words and their history.
One of my favorite things to do is try to establish links between unrelated events and locales because of the etymology (especially in FR).
But as I first stated, I agree with Thieran in that nearly all names have some meaning, even if the meaning has been lost in time.
Although a fairly recent trend amongst certain ethnic groups is to take 2 or more names you like and create a new name from some of the syllables, thus creating a bit of conundrum for future generations trying to determine the source. This shouldn't be the case in non-RW settings though, and most especially not in the case of a Tolkien-class world-builder like Ed.  |
| Thieran |
Posted - 22 Sep 2011 : 15:01:09
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Sometimes names are just names, without any real meaning even in their native language.
That's actually extremely rarely the case - usually, the meaning has simply faded from common (though not from academic) knowledge, and a few very rare cases where the etmyology of a name is unclear. In most cases in any language, though, the etymology of names is known, just not widely known. |
| Ergont |
Posted - 22 Sep 2011 : 08:05:21
I know.) That's why I'm not going to argue about "They" or "Immer".) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 22 Sep 2011 : 05:34:59
Sometimes names are just names, without any real meaning even in their native language. |
| Ergont |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 17:58:46
I know the rules of translation because I'm studing to translate. I know that my level of speech practise doesn't stand with such statement but I'm only student.)
But there is a desire to make such meaning names understandable to Russians, who can't speak English at all. You follow me? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 17:05:55
Was going to Chime-in on the Giant's Run, which appeared prominently on my favorite map (the one featuring Erlkazar), but Faraer got the right of it.
So all I can add is this - bear in mind that you are applying RW-English to names in FR, where English is not spoken. 'They' would not mean 'they' as it does here on Earth, so there is a major flaw in your reasoning.
Proper names are NOT translated - they would appear in their original language (which is why Los Angeles is Los Angeles in American, as opposed to 'The Angels'). |
| Ergont |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 15:23:44
Thank you! I didn't know that "They" is an old word. Marsh of They is appropriate variant. As for Immersea we've chosen the variant "Coastal Immer" because of the fact that the city is situated on the coast of Wyvern Sea.
I've seen Infested Hills on the 4th edition's Cormyrean map from the Dragon Magazine.)
Thanks a lot for mountains and spire.) You were very helpful.) |
| Faraer |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 11:54:27
The names Immersea or Theymarsh include a first element that's generally from an older Faerūnian language and doesn't have an obvious lexical meaning to folk of modern Faerūn, and a second element in Common or the local language that's represented as English. The first element remains the same in another Earth language or is just differently transliterated (the sound is represented with different letters); the second can be translated. But without knowing Russian, I don't know the ways it can combine the two elements. If you can't run them together as in English or German, generally you want to indicate an 'of' relationship -- Sea of Immer, Marsh of They (which is not the English pronoun 'they').
I don't know of any Infested Hills -- where are you seeing them?
The Giant's Run Mountains are named for an ancient flight of giants from dwarven armies. But the name also suggests 'mountains where giants travel, that they frequent'.
In 'Giantspire Mountains', 'spire' is a poetic word for 'mountain' that suggests tall, narrow peaks. There are multiple spires and giants live there. |
| Ergont |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 08:48:48
BTW...
Giant's Run - what is the meaning of run?
Giantspire Mountains - Spire is very high or there are giants living in the spire? |
| Ergont |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 08:38:34
Ayrik, I'm glad to be here.)
Thanks a lot, guys, for the Immer-words and Kryptgarden. It was very usefull.
I wouldn't be so sure about Surcross. There some other geographical names with "sur-" if my memory doesn't fail (Surthay, for example).
Is there any information about Infested Hills? Maybe some introduction to the history?
As for Theymarsh there is an opinion that "they" means living creatures. In this particular case I think that it is just living city in the marsh
quote:
Ironhar might be a shortened form of Ironharrow. A harrow is basically the English version of a Russian kurgan; perhaps this one is locked or covered in iron, or once had a much iron (or an iron golem) inside.
It's a very good version. I like it but I want some...mmm...proofs because there maybe of course name Har, yes?) So is there any information about this, hm, sight?)
quote:
I wouldn't read so much into the names in the Realms. Ed Greenwood is notorious for his creative and sometimes nonsensical naming of things, he also likes to "age" names with Ye Auld Englishe, or worse, with Auld Elfish/Dwarfish/etc. Most of the geography in the Realms is English based and will sound similar to names in England and Northern/Western Europe, at least the versions which are marketed here.
Yes, I'm agree with you. But we are trying to adapt the setting to Russians, trying to make it more understandable. Because there is much more pleasant to read or play if you see the Russian equivalent to names. As for me I don't care of it. But there are a lot of people who don't know English. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 00:00:44
Volo's Guide to the North p. 196:quote:
Under the leadership of a chieftain called Uruth, the orcs expanded their holdings steadily, building a realm they called Uruth Ukrypt (roughly, Home of Uruth). Its name is echoed today in the Kryptgarden Forest.
Immer is also a family name in Cormyr (see Volo's Guide to Cormyr p. 116); regardless of its roots, it's not a name-element that should be translated.
As for nonsensical naming from Ed, I bet not. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 20:19:30
There is VERY specific reason for the name Kryptgarden - I believe the full details were either in 1e The Savage Frontier or 2e The North (or both). It had something to do with the Orcs that lived there, IIRC. Something about Southkrypt, or something similar...
Sorry I can't tell you more at this time... I no longer own any FR sources. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 17:39:32
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
'Immer' could mean something like 'ever' (that's the case if you take the word into Dutch language).
Those infested hills lie somewhere in Cormyr? Could be they are infested with the usual culprits: vermin. This could mean mosquitoes, rats, bats, flies or other creepy crawlers of the icky kind.
Or it could be a corruption of some other word or name... Perhaps Immer is a corruption of Imrar, the name of a small fallen realm that was in this area in the distant past, or maybe the name of a long-forgotten notable figure who was prominent in or hailed from the area. Or Imrar could mean something in dwarven or elven or some other language, and that race/group's name for the area has been corrupted into Immer. (BTW, I made up the word Imrar and the other stuff, as an example)
The Infested Hills could have been named in a similar fashion, perhaps a corruption of Investen or Ifestel (another word I just made up). |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 16:24:13
Welcome to Candlekeep, Ergont.
Surcross, I think, could be based on the French word sur which generally means "on" or "above", ie: "on the cross" or "above the cross".
Theymarsh is likely a marsh, possibly named after fey (faerie) or Thay or some now-forgotten individual/family named They.
Ironhar might be a shortened form of Ironharrow. A harrow is basically the English version of a Russian kurgan; perhaps this one is locked or covered in iron, or once had a much iron (or an iron golem) inside.
I wouldn't read so much into the names in the Realms. Ed Greenwood is notorious for his creative and sometimes nonsensical naming of things, he also likes to "age" names with Ye Auld Englishe, or worse, with Auld Elfish/Dwarfish/etc. Most of the geography in the Realms is English based and will sound similar to names in England and Northern/Western Europe, at least the versions which are marketed here. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 15:47:15
'Immer' could mean something like 'ever' (that's the case if you take the word into Dutch language).
Those infested hills lie somewhere in Cormyr? Could be they are infested with the usual culprits: vermin. This could mean mosquitoes, rats, bats, flies or other creepy crawlers of the icky kind. |
| Ergont |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 06:15:53
Hello!
I have some problems with other list of names:
Immersea, Immer Trail - what does "immer" mean? Is it "inner"? Or what?
Halfhap - I can't understand an etymology of this word. What is it? The place like a tavern or inn?
Infested Hills - What are they infested by? Or is it just some swamp with hills?
Thank you. |
| Ergont |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 13:05:58
Probably) The month of chess) |
| Kno |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 09:32:24
For Ches is shakhmaty |
| Ergont |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 21:13:37
Thanks.) Hammer and Flamerule are seemed to me just very, hmm, Engligh variants. |
| MisterX |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 10:36:32
The months have two names, one in a foreign language (Chondathan?) one in our language/english. The latter are all talking names, if I remember correctly. |
| Ergont |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 09:55:48
Just remembered.
What could you tell me about names of months? Except Flamerule are there any other meaning titles? |
| Ergont |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 09:39:30
MysterX, thank you.
We have such thoughts too. But there is no certainty about it. Russian language doesn't allow us to play with words in such a way.)
As for Delhalls - maybe there are halls which were removed? |
| MisterX |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 09:28:33
Welcome to the keep and forums.
To Kryptgarden forest:
I think the "k" was used instead of a "c" to give the name a more old, strange fashion, maybe to simulate a sound-shift. Also, a forest could be interpreted as "garden of nature". There might be a crypt (like: grave) in the forest, or the forest might be strange and imperviously (to humans) and thus "cryptic" an a metaphorical sense.
To Delhalls:
"Del" sounds like "Dale" in my ears
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