| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 29 Jul 2011 : 20:38:30
Which deity do you think you would worship if you were transported to the realms? (At any point in time, so including dead deities)
Selune seems like a deity i'd like the most.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Nai_Calus |
Posted - 17 Aug 2011 : 12:56:48
Corellon Larethian, of course. With the odd bits of prayer here and there to Erevan Ilesere in particular and the rest of the Seldarine. Except Shevarash. Rotten twirp. With perhaps the occasional blasphemous fondness for Vhaeraun. |
| DaniloThann |
Posted - 17 Aug 2011 : 03:50:00
Mask |
| Dennis |
Posted - 16 Aug 2011 : 11:27:00
Goes to say there are a lot of geeks here... |
| glitter |
Posted - 15 Aug 2011 : 15:50:34
So, until now (in case of multiple answer without a clear favorite, I took the name of the first god of the list)
7 votes: Oghma/Deneir
6 votes:Torm
3 votes:
Selune
Mystra
Sune
2 votes :
Lathander
Sharess
Nobanion
1 vote:
Lurue
Meilikki
Leira
Savras
Labelas
Eillistraee
Gond
Shar
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 17:08:15
Maybe we can get back to the original topic, now?  |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 14:18:12
Well, you're both free to look at it backwards if you want to, it's just a game after all, but that kinda ignores Ed's entire point about portfolios being "mortal shorthand."
A portfolio is merely a reflection of how mortals tend to worship, that they focus on certain deities as having particular areas of interest. That doesn't mean that portfolios in and of themselves grant power.
Gaining or stealing a new portfolio is, again, shorthand. It reflects a shift in worship, it doesn't tell people "you must all worship differently now".
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| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 10:18:52
MrHedgehog, you beat me to it. I was about to reply to Eltheron's last post, but your elucidation pretty much summarizes what I have in mind... |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 09 Aug 2011 : 05:57:04
I don't agree that you have to actively worship a deity for them to be empowered by the worship. Why would portfolios matter at all then? We know that Cyric does not want his worshipers to openly war because acts related to his portfolio empower him more. Another example is that Bane returns with "fear" as a portfolio, and is more powerful. If portfolios don't give you power, how would having another portfolio have made him more powerful? One of the differences between the levels of deities (Greater ----> demideity) is the importance of the portfolios they reside over, too, along with the numbers and intensity of worship. Deities obviously gain power from the possession of portfolios, not just active worship. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 23:19:11
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Try the quote below for a start. And read the lines I highlighted above.
Dedicated or not, an act or an event empowers a certain deity in a way. One can spread lies to cloak the truth, and he doesn't have to be a Sharran nor dedicate his actions to Shar for such deed to empower her. The deed speaks for itself.
Let's walk you through this, because I don't think you understood what Ed meant -or- what I meant.
First, Ed isn't saying that every deity gains power from every single act on Toril. He's saying that "in a way", all the gods share each and every portfolio and because of that they tend to "cancel each other out" unless an action is specifically related to (or devoted to) a particular god's worship. What Ed was trying to get across to you was more along the lines of "there's some overlap, because nothing in the mortal world ever fits into a single concept" like a portfolio.
Second, portfolios are not necessarily worship, they are "mortal shorthand" for a deity's interests and goals. That said, worship is and always has been the thing that "counts" for a deity's power, not necessarily portfolios. This is -especially- true following the Time of Troubles. Portfolios are mortal shorthand, they aren't "real" in the sense of being anything other than a relational concept.
Third, I said that the gods really aren't "living concepts" (which Ed didn't talk about, at least in that quote), because we know -demonstrably- that they are beings or "entities" with their own motivations, choices, and actions. Further, there have been gods that have died, and even if they didn't pass on their portfolio to another god the whole concept of that portfolio didn't die out.
Blowing out a candle in a room (darkness!), without whispering something to Shar, does not empower Shar. She draws power from the act of -worship-, even if it's a quick lip-service whisper.
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| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 23:03:30
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ed mentioned quite a lot of points that don't agree with yours, Eltheron. Since it was my question he answered, let me endeavor to find that reply for you... [scouring my e-files now...]
Nothing Ed said there contradicts what I said.
Try the quote below for a start. And read the lines I highlighted above.
Dedicated or not, an act or an event empowers a certain deity in a way. One can spread lies to cloak the truth, and he doesn't have to be a Sharran nor dedicate his actions to Shar for such deed to empower her. The deed speaks for itself.
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
I'd murder Cyric worshipers on sight.
Murdering to oppose the god of murder seems perversely counterproductive. Just as one cannot hope to destroy the god of destruction or win a war against the god of war, since every effort (indeed, every success) in such a conflict would only strengthen one's divine opponent.
Not necessarily. Growing crops doesn't empower Chauntea unless the plantings are dedicated to her. War doesn't empower Tempus unless it's carried out with his blessing (just ask woshippers of Targus, or Garagos). Similarly, I can't see that killing Cyric's priests would empower Cyric, it would just make his faithful look weak.
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| Eltheron |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 22:50:24
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ed mentioned quite a lot of points that don't agree with yours, Eltheron. Since it was my question he answered, let me endeavor to find that reply for you... [scouring my e-files now...]
Nothing Ed said there contradicts what I said.
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| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 22:34:52
Here it is. Highlight is mine.
quote:
Does Mystra in a way share the portfolios of Destruction and Chaos with Talos and Lloth? She supports both evil and goodly magic. When evil wizards fight the goodly ones, destruction and chaos usually ensue.
Ed's reply:
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 : 16:19:37
True, but EVERY god shares every portfolio in this particular "way" you refer to (gods fight each other, so that supports Tempus, and if one kills another, that supports one or all death deities, and so on).
When I first introduced the concept of divine portfolios into the D&D game (the idea was ages-old, but I'm afraid that using the word "portfolios" and putting it formally into D&D was my fault), it was a mortal shorthand to describe the MAJOR interest(s) and dominance over a particular field or element of life of a deity. In other words, Tempus is Lord of Battles, but many deities concern themselves with warfare in more minor ways...and to a particular mortal, on the ground in the middle of a particular fight, the involvement of, say, Chauntea in that fight (say, over a boundary between farms, or over shared use of a watering-hole or well) might seem a whole lot stronger and more present than that of Tempus.
So, yes, "in a way" Mystra DOES share the portfolios of Destruction and Chaos with Talos and Lolth/Lloth - - BUT almost every deity shares in almost every portfolio in this manner, and so for purposes of discussion such involvement "cancels out" and isn't usually mentioned by mortals (except in theological debates among sages and within temples). A portfolio is meant to describe, for mortals, the primary (or one of a few main) goal, interest, or aim of a deity. Mystra's portfolio, however expressed, is centered on magic, and its ever-wider use, NOT on Destruction and Chaos. As I said earlier in my reply to Saer Cormaeril, Mystra prefers peace and prosperity as conditions for encouraging/fostering more widespread and frequent magic use (and development of magic, which in turn will make it more useful in a daily sense and hence better used), not destruction or chaos. Destruction is often caused by magic use, and may in some cases be necessary as a step in settling disputes/creating future peace, but that doesn't make it a goal for Mystra or a portfolio she meaningfully shares in.
I hope this helps in clarifying away some confusion.
So saith Ed. Opining like fury in his brief available time ere plunging right back into the constant stream of waiting writing projects...
love to all,
THO
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| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 22:30:36
Ed mentioned quite a lot of points that don't agree with yours, Eltheron. Since it was my question he answered, let me endeavor to find that reply for you... [scouring my e-files now...] |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 21:56:41
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The only condition which invalidates that argument is that it hasn't been uniformly applied to all deities within the Pantheon. Chauntea is empowered only by plantings dedicated to her, ie: what amounts to be a type of religious ceremony or offering, and only in the Realms, and only by those who recognize her ... while conversely we are led to believe Mystra is (or was) the one true goddess of all magic in all planes and all worlds throughout the cosmos, a sort of omnimagical being who's power is sustained and served by any form or practice of magic which exists by any name. Both of these examples have equal divine rank, stature, and power - and many others could be provided - so why does this bias exist?
Not that any of these arguments are particularly relevant to this topic, of course.
The problem is two-fold: that there are multiple pantheons in the Realms, and that only the act of worship gives power to deities. What you're suggesting, drawing power from an event, natural or otherwise (not requiring worship), would require more of a pantheistic belief system... or perhaps that the gods are like "living concepts" and inherent in anything defined by their portfolios. In such a case, they would neither require nor need/encourage worship.
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 21:39:01
An important detail which invalidates that observation is that these belief-power restrictions haven't been uniformly applied to all Faerūnian deities.
Chauntea is empowered largely by plantings dedicated to her, ie: what amounts to essentially being a type of religious ceremony or offering, but only in the Realms, and only by those who recognize and venerate her. To add insult, there's the fact that other crops planted by other people who don't venerate Chauntea still manage to grow well enough to feed large populations ... suggesting that, really, Chauntea's functions aren't necessary nor critical - or at the least, that specifically worshipping her is not any sort of requirement in ensuring crops and plantings will grow.
Conversely, we are led to believe that Mystra is (or was) the one and only true goddess of all magic in all planes and in all worlds spanning the D&D cosmos. She's a sort of omnimagical being who's power is sustained and served by any form or practice of magic which exists, even if it's called by other names. Most significantly, her (repeated) death causes magical backlash which spans every place touched by magic in the universe.
Both of these examples have equal divine rank, stature, and power - and many others could be provided - so why does this bias exist? I certainly understand that we're talking about a fantasy genre, so yes of course we'd rather immerse ourselves in the workings of magic and wizards than in those of medieval crop farmers. Still, it is an inconsistency with significant theological implications.
Not that any of these arguments are particularly relevant to this topic, of course. Perhaps better debated in another thread. |
| Eltheron |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 19:39:11
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
I'd murder Cyric worshipers on sight.
Murdering to oppose the god of murder seems perversely counterproductive. Just as one cannot hope to destroy the god of destruction or win a war against the god of war, since every effort (indeed, every success) in such a conflict would only strengthen one's divine opponent.
Not necessarily. Growing crops doesn't empower Chauntea unless the plantings are dedicated to her. War doesn't empower Tempus unless it's carried out with his blessing (just ask woshippers of Targus, or Garagos). Similarly, I can't see that killing Cyric's priests would empower Cyric, it would just make his faithful look weak.
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| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 17:53:36
quote:
I'd murder Cyric worshipers on sight.
Murdering to oppose the god of murder seems perversely counterproductive. Just as one cannot hope to destroy the god of destruction or win a war against the god of war, since every effort (indeed, every success) in such a conflict would only strengthen one's divine opponent. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 17:26:55
Shar, Sune, and Labelas Enoreth. I love all 3! With a bit of Talos for fun.
I'd murder Cyric worshipers on sight. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 05:05:47
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Wherever you want, and assume you can keep your faith private.
Oh. Well in that case, Sharess and any of the higher end feasthalls.
If I were a faithful, (which I wouldn't be), I don't think I'd like the idea of keeping my faith private, unless it's for survival---say, a more famous, rival church eliminates all clergy of my church. But then again, why would I wander into that city when it could mean the death of me?! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 04:56:25
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Wherever you want, and assume you can keep your faith private.
Oh. Well in that case, Sharess and any of the higher end feasthalls.
Sharess's clergy aren't known for their feasting.  |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 08 Aug 2011 : 01:22:39
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Wherever you want, and assume you can keep your faith private.
Oh. Well in that case, Sharess and any of the higher end feasthalls. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 07 Aug 2011 : 18:39:40
Hmmm... Probably join everyone else in a nice, safe monastery/library in service of Oghma or similar. If this inter-dimentional relocation event also allows me to re-do my 'cheracter sheet', I might get a bit more adventurous... |
| Varl |
Posted - 07 Aug 2011 : 16:30:29
Lathander definitely. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 07 Aug 2011 : 15:21:40
Primary- Mystra. However close secondary's would be Azuth, Savras, Deneir, Oghma, and Tyr |
| Yoss |
Posted - 07 Aug 2011 : 13:46:18
As much as I would be against worshipping a god in the first place, and as much as I'd like to be some kind of kickass stealthy assassin or super strong Tempus-loving warrior, put me down as another for Deneir. I could get behind a geek god. In the end, nothing makes me happier than learning new things and knowing stuff. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 16:34:38
Wherever you want, and assume you can keep your faith private.
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| Seethyr |
Posted - 04 Aug 2011 : 03:08:13
I love the nobility in both Torm and Nobanion, but I like the thought of working alongside some good aligned wemics so I'd have to go with Nobanion out of the two.
I might even have considered trying to bring the Feathered Dragon, Qotal over into Faerun. |
| Quale |
Posted - 03 Aug 2011 : 10:40:27
I can't choose between Gond and Sune. It would be the Red Heresy. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 02 Aug 2011 : 10:26:32
Where in the realms do I appear and how likely are the locals to get stab-happy if my choice differs too radically from theirs? |
| Kno |
Posted - 02 Aug 2011 : 07:40:36
quote:
Originally posted by RedneckBadgerLord
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Which deity do you think you would worship if you were transported to the realms? (At any point in time, so including dead deities)
Selune seems like a deity i'd like the most.
Seeing as I'm working on becoming a licensed pastor, I'll stick with My Lord Jesus Christ. (After all, AO is an obvious reference to:
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. -Rev. 22:13
Try Nobanion |
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