| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 29 May 2011 : 08:38:14
I don't think Ioulaum's Enclave is the very first floating city ever created in Fantasy. But as of the moment, it's the oldest [in terms of the time it first appeared in print] that I can recall... Others are...
The Sky Realm, from Moesta and Anderson's The Sky Realm: Book Three of The Crystal Doors Trilogy. It used to be a land-based city. Pollution and plague destroyed its neighbors. To save it from such cruel fate, a gigantic genie with considerable magical power scooped it with his bare hands and lifted to the sky. It's flight is now maintained by its wizards.
Arianus, from Weis and Hickman's The Death Gate Cycle. I'm still reading Dragon Wing [and enjoying it] so I can't yet shed some light on this [potentially] well-realized realm.
The city of Sky, from The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N. K. Jemisin. It's the new home [or prison] of the once powerful gods who lost an ancient war and became slaves.
Edolas, from the animated series Fairy Tail. It's an alternate world almost devoid of magic; home to a selfish king who abducts wizards from other worlds to steal their magical powers. Its strange architecture and rivers that float and run across the kingdom, defying logic, are reminiscent of Netheril.
The Snow City, from the animated series Yu Yu Hakusho (Ghostfighter/ Ghost Files). It is the birthplace of Hei (Vincent). As the name connotes, it always snows there; and its people have grown impervious to the cold.
And of course, the flying mountain slabs of the Na'vi in the blockbuster film Avatar.
All these were published and shown long after the empire of Netheril was seen in print... But I know I must have missed a lot... Do you know of any other floating cities/realms? Which of them was published first? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 27 Jul 2011 : 12:29:45
Not really a city, but an interesting floating entity nonetheless: Howl's Moving Castle, also the title of a young adult fantasy novel by a prolific author, Diana Wynne Jones. Hayao Miyazaki adapted it into film, which is available in gogoanime.com (though I haven't the time yet to watch it). The book was published in 1986. So it must be one of the many firsts to introduce a flying castle, or any entity for that matter. But of course, it is not the very first.
The Castle is as interesting as its master. The book is now on my To-Buy list. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 02:23:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
But still, I don't like the idea of putting cats (though they're winged, they are still small) on the apex of civilizations.
You obviously don't have any cats in the house. 
On the contrary. I have three. And I love them. But to think of them as my masters and me their pet is the most absurd thing I would never do (something some races in Fairy Tail do think). I like Happy, too. He's one of the Exceeds and is really amusing and cute. But to place his race above all civilizations is still silly.
I have a conjecture, though. Their queen (a god-like being, but is not yet shown) sent Exceed eggs to be born in Earthland where they should grow and lure the Dragon Slayers to Extalia, where they would be summarily executed. I think the Queen believes that the Dragon Slayers and their Dragon Masters have powers that rival her own, afraid they would challenge her and could win if they unite. So if human wizards can become powerful enough as to challenge the ruler of the "supposed to be" greater race (Exceeds), then they aren't as low-level as what most people/races think. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 16:23:09
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
But still, I don't like the idea of putting cats (though they're winged, they are still small) on the apex of civilizations.
You obviously don't have any cats in the house. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 08:11:55
Extalia. It's a kingdom (or queendom) featured in Fairy Tail, floating over Edolas. It is home to winged cats known as Exeeds, who are described as beings more powerful than humans. I still don't see how those creatures rise above humans. So far, the only thing that's shown as their edge over the humans is their ability to use magic of flight even amidst the magic-scarce world of Edolas. Obviously, there's more to be seen. But still, I don't like the idea of putting cats (though they're winged, they are still small) on the apex of civilizations. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 16 Jun 2011 : 18:14:52
-Crucial to the second story arc. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 16 Jun 2011 : 03:39:17
How much screen time did it get, LK? Just one episode? Or is it something crucial to the story that it appeared in several (not necessarily consecutive) episodes? |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 : 18:41:41
-Because I just finished it, the cartoon series Samurai 7 features a floating city. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 : 16:23:33
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
In the Realms, were the Netherese the very first to use flying ships? Or was that one of the cloud giants first feats as well?
I suppose that would depend on how much applicability you would assign to the amazing Da Vinci-esque "flying creations" of DaRoni's Workshop in Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue.
They tend to have a pre-flying ship-era "vibe" to them. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 : 13:08:16
In the Realms, were the Netherese the very first to use flying ships? Or was that one of the cloud giants first feats as well? |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 11 Jun 2011 : 05:45:34
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The rune magic I see in Norse mythology -- again, as I understand it -- is different in that the rune itself contains the magic, much like many of D&D's glyph or symbol spells.
-Right, right. This is why I never really "got" Rune Magic, why it's considered it's own branch of magic, instead of simply being those glyph/symbol magical spells. Much like saying calligraphy different from writing, I think.
-Personally, my favorite type of magic involving runes comes from the Suikoden series of video games, incidentally my favorite series of video games. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Jun 2011 : 01:34:53
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I find it too limited. (That's also the reason I find a fantasy setting utilizing only that kind of magic not so fascinating, like the Death Gate Cycle. But I just read the first book (yet), so my judgment might change...)
Well, the rune magic in the Death's Gate Cycle isn't the same as the rune magic often associated with Norse mythology (or giants, in D&D), at least as I understand it. Death Gate rune magic is about examining, selecting, and manipulating possibilities, and forcing a desired possibility to happen. The rune magic I see in Norse mythology -- again, as I understand it -- is different in that the rune itself contains the magic, much like many of D&D's glyph or symbol spells. The Norse/giant rune shapes a single, specific magical effect, while Sartan/Patryn rune magic invokes one specified possibility out of a selection of many of them.
And if you use the Internet's WayBack Machine [since the official DGC site is no longer active], you should be able to find the Rune Magic work-up Weis & Hickman wrote as a supplement to the "Death Gate Cycle" novels.
A lot of it is discussed in appendices to the novels, as well.
Aye.
As I recall, the material presented on the web, amounted to information that was either cut or didn't make it into the appendices.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jun 2011 : 01:28:31
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I find it too limited. (That's also the reason I find a fantasy setting utilizing only that kind of magic not so fascinating, like the Death Gate Cycle. But I just read the first book (yet), so my judgment might change...)
Well, the rune magic in the Death's Gate Cycle isn't the same as the rune magic often associated with Norse mythology (or giants, in D&D), at least as I understand it. Death Gate rune magic is about examining, selecting, and manipulating possibilities, and forcing a desired possibility to happen. The rune magic I see in Norse mythology -- again, as I understand it -- is different in that the rune itself contains the magic, much like many of D&D's glyph or symbol spells. The Norse/giant rune shapes a single, specific magical effect, while Sartan/Patryn rune magic invokes one specified possibility out of a selection of many of them.
And if you use the Internet's WayBack Machine [since the official DGC site is no longer active], you should be able to find the Rune Magic work-up Weis & Hickman wrote as a supplement to the "Death Gate Cycle" novels.
A lot of it is discussed in appendices to the novels, as well. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Jun 2011 : 01:20:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I find it too limited. (That's also the reason I find a fantasy setting utilizing only that kind of magic not so fascinating, like the Death Gate Cycle. But I just read the first book (yet), so my judgment might change...)
Well, the rune magic in the Death's Gate Cycle isn't the same as the rune magic often associated with Norse mythology (or giants, in D&D), at least as I understand it. Death Gate rune magic is about examining, selecting, and manipulating possibilities, and forcing a desired possibility to happen. The rune magic I see in Norse mythology -- again, as I understand it -- is different in that the rune itself contains the magic, much like many of D&D's glyph or symbol spells. The Norse/giant rune shapes a single, specific magical effect, while Sartan/Patryn rune magic invokes one specified possibility out of a selection of many of them.
And if you use the Internet's WayBack Machine [since the official DGC site is no longer active], you should be able to find the Rune Magic work-up Weis & Hickman wrote as a supplement to the "Death Gate Cycle" novels. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 22:17:37
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I find it too limited. (That's also the reason I find a fantasy setting utilizing only that kind of magic not so fascinating, like the Death Gate Cycle. But I just read the first book (yet), so my judgment might change...)
Well, the rune magic in the Death's Gate Cycle isn't the same as the rune magic often associated with Norse mythology (or giants, in D&D), at least as I understand it. Death Gate rune magic is about examining, selecting, and manipulating possibilities, and forcing a desired possibility to happen. The rune magic I see in Norse mythology -- again, as I understand it -- is different in that the rune itself contains the magic, much like many of D&D's glyph or symbol spells. The Norse/giant rune shapes a single, specific magical effect, while Sartan/Patryn rune magic invokes one specified possibility out of a selection of many of them. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 18:33:33
I find it too limited. (That's also the reason I find a fantasy setting utilizing only that kind of magic not so fascinating, like the Death Gate Cycle. But I just read the first book (yet), so my judgment might change...) |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 18:12:56
-Interesting parallels between that first city falling from the sky, and crashing into the Anauroch, and High Netheril.
-What is it about Rune Magic that you don't like? Personally, I don't really "get it", but I don't dislike it, either. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 05:05:26
So, their castles' flight is due to runed stone. I'm not a fan of rune magic myself. But I must say putting it to this use looks fascinating. Though it would have been more so if the cloud giants devised a means to seize control over their palaces' wanderings.
Here is an excerpt from Giantcraft, pp. 119-120:
quote:
Back in the days of Nicias, long before the cloud giants inhabited the aerie, they floated across Toril in an enormous cloud palace similar to those under the auspices of Abram and Marchas today. A smaller duplicate of the god#146;s own domain, Nicias won this first cloud palace in a wager with the great god Stronmaus. The entire palace ultimately plummeted to the ground (its ruins are said to litter the Great Desert of Anauroch), but not before cloud giant runecasters uncovered many of the secrets of its operation. Years later, runecasters working in the aerie discovered the last few secrets of the great rune that keeps the palace aloft.
The construction of a cloud palace is a tricky affair that requires the cooperation of no less than a dozen cloud giants working in tandem. Together, they use their levitation ability to capture the cloud and force it to obey their movements. Once it is completely under their control, the giants force the cloud to descend upon a runecaster waiting upon the ground. In the caster's hand is a small leather bag containing a pebble inscribed with the rune that supplies the special magic necessary to solidify the cloud's surface. After the cloud has obscured the caster for a full 10 hours, the giants force it upward again. If the caster prepared his rune properly, he should now be standing atop the cloud and everything should be ready for the construction of the palace to begin (an entirely separate affair no simpler than building such a palace on the ground). All of the participants find this entire procedure incredibly taxing. The sheer force of will necessary to move an even empty cloud is enormous. Once the cloud has been properly solidified, the caster must take the leather bag and conceal it within the cloud's mists.
Any tampering with the runed stone the bag contains might send the palace plummeting out of the sky. Note that the rune needed to power a cloud palace is by far the most complex that any of the Jotunbrud have ever uncovered its shaping time is well over a year. The inhabitants of a cloud palace have no control over its wanderings. It simply drifts on the winds along with the other clouds.
|
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 04:43:32
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
So they are that unimportant that not even a single novel bothers to give them a significant screen time?
-Never read that series, but don't mistake not given a significant amount of airtime with importance. According to Ed, there's plenty that we've never seen, locked behind NDAs or whatever, that's integral and important to the continued survival of plenty of important people and places in Faerūn, as well as the continent itself- the planet! the Crystal Sphere! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 04:37:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
This is the only thing of import that's mentioned about their society:
quote:
An Excerpt from Monster Manual 3.5, p. 121:
Cloud Giant Society
The majority of cloud giants dwell on cloud-shrouded mountain peaks, making their lairs in crude castles. They live in small groups but know the location of 1d8 other groups and come together with some of these other tribes for celebrations, battles, or trade. Good-aligned cloud giants trade with humanoid communities for food, wine, jewelry, and cloth. Some establish such good relations that they come to a communitys aid if it is endangered. Evil-aligned cloud giants raid communities to get what
they want.
Legends tell of rare cloud giants that build castles on magical cloud islands isolated even from other cloud giants. Cloud islands are reputed to be fantastic places with giant-sized gardens of fruit trees.
I'll check Giantcraft later...
There's a section on "Cloud Palaces" in Giantcraft -- pg. 119. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 03:53:54
This is the only thing of import that's mentioned about their society:
quote:
An Excerpt from Monster Manual 3.5, p. 121:
Cloud Giant Society
The majority of cloud giants dwell on cloud-shrouded mountain peaks, making their lairs in crude castles. They live in small groups but know the location of 1d8 other groups and come together with some of these other tribes for celebrations, battles, or trade. Good-aligned cloud giants trade with humanoid communities for food, wine, jewelry, and cloth. Some establish such good relations that they come to a communitys aid if it is endangered. Evil-aligned cloud giants raid communities to get what
they want.
Legends tell of rare cloud giants that build castles on magical cloud islands isolated even from other cloud giants. Cloud islands are reputed to be fantastic places with giant-sized gardens of fruit trees.
I'll check Giantcraft later... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 03:30:52
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
So they are that unimportant that not even a single novel bothers to give them a significant screen time?
Maybe there were mentioned. I just don't recall too much about them from the novels.
They are on my re-read list for the year though. And with the way my schedule works, I'll probably get to them sometime in 2013.
|
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 01:59:22
So they are that unimportant that not even a single novel bothers to give them a significant screen time? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 01:32:09
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Weren't they covered in the Twilight Giants trilogy?
Not that I can recall.
Though it has been a while since I've read those books. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 19:23:40
Weren't they covered in the Twilight Giants trilogy? |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 18:34:02
-No floating cities really have gotten the coverage that High Netheril has gotten, so I don't really know it it's fair. Cloud Giant cities, we know next to nothing about, but a city on a cloud, with buildings made of clouds, and whatever else, has a lot of potential in my book. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 13:41:51
You mean Ioulaum...His city was called Xinlenal, or simply, Ioulaum's Enclave. I'm not sure if his was the first, though. As noted by a scribe, the grey giants' flying cities were. Unfortunately, I'm not really in the mood to peruse old tomes right now, so I can't confirm that. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 12:24:23
I thought Netheril described the first arcanist levitating a mountaintop to make his mythallar-powered enclave. I cannot recall his name, but it was obviously be the first flying city. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 08:08:55
Of all the flying cities/nations/empires, which do you think has the coolest or the most interesting reason for their flight? Arianus's lands emit a kind of gas that is lighter than air. It would have been interesting if there was something (or someone) that "guided" each land/realm's flight ---and my vote would have gone to it. Instead, I pick Netheril. To cleave an entire mountain, then power it with magic-infused crystals so it could fly is sheer ingenuity. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 19:17:02
Well, y'know, they say any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic ... it's all the same stuff, when you step back from the genres, talismonger and treknobabble alike. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 16:58:19
It's all Science Fiction, no Fantasy. |
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