| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 11 May 2011 : 09:57:12
I know this has been done before on other threads and links but I just wanted to start one here simply because... well just because i guess. The first time i heard about hp i could not care less because they used magic with wands only, and dnd was so much better. The amount of choice and selection....drool....
Anyway, if say 20th level Necromancer (3.5e or 3e) with Evocation and Abjuration were forbidden, vs Voldemort what spells could be used to battle, he who must not be named?
Your comments are greatly appreciated
Aumvor the Undying FTW! |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 14 Oct 2011 : 05:47:04
For me it would be a spell turning. And when Voldy goes for Ak it rebounds and he has to spend months to return back to true life, unless of course something unfortunate happens to Harry!
"It is time for more experiments" |
| WizardsHerb |
Posted - 11 Oct 2011 : 03:36:08
It's not Slowga, is it?
So a HP Wizard has a defensive spell to counter an offensive opening, and an offensive opening that can be countered with any sort of common preparation such as Still Spell, or Freedom of Movement tacked onto something shiny.
Empowered Spell Mantle followed by utilizing a heavy wooden object such as a staff or heavy tome and a still useable BAB... |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 23:59:43
Likely with a protega or a paralizing spell (forgot what it's called- the one Hermione used on Neville). |
| WizardsHerb |
Posted - 08 Oct 2011 : 00:20:53
Duel at twenty paces? Draw spell when the dramatic music starts?
I'd cast Silence, were I the D&D Wizard. Would the "average one" depend on their specialization? I remember reading fluff about one duel involving a wizard opening with successive fireballs to throw off another who expected a different speciality, or a necromancer opening with instant death spells (and a summon creature spell after discovering the defensive wards).
How would a HP Wizard likely or favourably open? |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 23:01:59
We can't really know that since we've never seen any of them. AFAIK, Voldy and his followers were basically the only evil game in town. Everyone else seemed to be staying out of the fight and minding their own business. There may wellbe other evil wizards in HP, but we never hear about them. either they were not powerful enough to do it, found it too squicky to try, or were not as "evil" as the voldy gang. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 22:53:31
Perhaps. But Voldermort and his Death Eaters aren't the only "evil" wizards in HP-verse. Some from other countries would have gladly created horcruxes to attain immortality. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 22:36:23
Dennis, one could just as easily argue that the number of wizards WILLING to make them is fewer. I doubt many wizards in the HP-verse want to go through the necessarry rituals or whatever to split up their souls- and most would have no reason to. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 02:34:27
Both phylactery and horcrux are also difficult to destroy.
Their main difference, I suppose, is that the wizards who know how to make horcruxes are relatively fewer than those who know how to fashion phylacteries. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 22:07:33
The creation of a phylactery involves evil described in only the vaguest (and most carefully non-offensive) generic terms. It's exactly as evil as the DM/author defines.
While the creation of an horcrux specifically involves acts of supreme evil, "secrets of the darkest art", an act of murder/sacrifice, and a tormented ripping asunder of the soul prior to binding/infusing part of it within the object. Some narrative complexities might arise from exploring which parts of the soul are stored within and without the horcrux, and how they might influence or interact with each other or their world.
It's difficult to ascertain which evil is worse; many storytellers recognize that a vicious monster howling in the woods or a few sickeningly wet shadowy thumps in an alleyway left to fester and scuttle about in one's imagination can be far worse than anything they might attempt to explicitly describe. Then again, many storytellers focus heavily on describing monsters and violence, these are specialized genres unto themselves. 4E D&D seems, to me, to target an audience with a generally lower minimum age limit (and much more simplified understanding of "evil") than Rowling's HP novels/movies, a very deliberate shift away from the sophisticated darker tones painted by some of the 3E and 2E offerings.
It should be noted that while users of horcruces (called horcruxes by Rowling) might be a bit pasty and unwholesome they are not actually undead, at least not in the same distinct terms as liches in D&D. Otherwise, phylacteries and horcruces are fairly interchangeable and essentially serve the same purpose; the wiki pages describing them actually cite each other as examples. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 21:17:34
quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
I'll echo the lack of accio working on a phylactery, because, really, what's the technical different between a horcux and a phylactery?
Both carry the soul/essence of the wizards who created them, and their destruction means the complete destruction of their creators. By "complete," I mean beyond any possibilities of returning back to life, or rather "unlife." |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 17:49:17
Clearly Wooly and Alystra do not frequent the same bookstores. I'll admit I'm used to Barnes and Noble and Borders, where there are typically 2-3 book displays of the series, of which Rowling's HP universe books are included.
I'll echo the lack of accio working on a phylactery, because, really, what's the technical different between a horcux and a phylactery? |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 00:53:17
Really? Wow. Every time I've gone into a Books-A-Million or Borders(RIP) or Hastings, they're usually right there on an end-cap featured right along with the novels. And on the main shelves, too. Must be more popular here. I almost bought the critter one once, just to use in my campaigns. And on the topic at hand, I'd like to note that that disintigration spell that is "forbidden" in HP is known to quite a few wizards. Apparating is taught to every student wizard, not to mention there's the death-spell that they aren't supposed to use, but are still taught. And if that many Death-Eaters could cast those uber-fireballs, (sorry, I still say that's what they were, and not some measley magic-missle stuff) then it's obviously commonly taught as well. Making chocloate frogs animated is no mean feat, either- and they do all of this ALL THE TIME! AT WILL! Seems like thay'd give most D&D wizards a run for the money any day of the week. And I agree with the theory about the wands resonating to a wizard's energy. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 16:12:26
Yes. I forgot. Hermione and Harry tried it to summon the Horcruxes and failed. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 15:53:55
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Could an HP archmage fighting a D&D lich simply utter "Accio [Insert name]'s phylactery!"? The fight would be over, right then and there, wouldn't it?!
It didn't work on the horcruxes, so Accio can be beat. And it would be a foolish lich indeed who didn't protect his phylactery. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 11:31:52
Could an HP archmage fighting a D&D lich simply utter "Accio [Insert name]'s phylactery!"? The fight would be over, right then and there, wouldn't it?! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 14:31:41
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm planning on buying the books, now, I just didn't know they existed, and I've never seen them before. I may have me friend that lives in O-town take a look for them...
There's a bookstore which is just a stone's throw away from where I'm staying and it still has many stacks of Beedle; and I'd like to buy one or two for you. But you're on the other side of the planet.
True. I'm just going to hit the Amazon later this week, I think. There are, as always, other things on my wishlist, as well.
I appreciate the thought, though. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 13:41:24
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm planning on buying the books, now, I just didn't know they existed, and I've never seen them before. I may have me friend that lives in O-town take a look for them...
There's a bookstore which is just a stone's throw away from where I'm staying and it still has many stacks of Beedle; and I'd like to buy one or two for you. But you're on the other side of the planet. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 16:55:46
I'm planning on buying the books, now, I just didn't know they existed, and I've never seen them before. I may have me friend that lives in O-town take a look for them... |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 14:55:58
Like Wooly, I've never seen any of these books, and I'm no stranger to bookstores. I have The Tales of Beedle the Bard, and I thought that was all this setting had to offer appart from HP books. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 25 Sep 2011 : 20:07:49
There are hundreds of them in our local bookstores. I understand why it's not as popular as the novels. It simply lacks the central focus that has made the novels quite sensational---and that's Harry Potter himself. Though I wouldn't call it entirely unpopular, at least in the Philippines, because it hit the No. 1 spot in the Top Ten Bestsellers of National Bookstore, Fully Booked, and Powerbooks for three weeks since its release. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Sep 2011 : 15:54:33
I was in the bookstore yesterday, and specifically went looking for those non-novel Harry Potter books. Not a single one. And this is the same store where I had to park a block away, hours before the release of book 6, just to be able to get in. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 25 Sep 2011 : 08:38:56
I'll expecto my patronum on your face. Ahahahaha!!! |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Sep 2011 : 05:37:00
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Actually, Since all of those books are usually sold righ next to the main novels in bookstores, I'd say a fair number of HP fans know of their existance. If not, they're freaking BLIND.
I'm a Harry Potter fan, I read a lot, and I go to the bookstore frequently. I didn't even know those other books existed until they were mentioned in this thread, and I thought the Beedle book had been a limited-release only.
Correct. The Tales of Beedle the Bard was produced in a limited edition only.
If our local bookstores are any indiction, the said anthology might not be that famous [due to lack to promotion, perhaps] because there are still a great number of copies of them which are on sale. Unlike the novels, whose prices have never gone down. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Sep 2011 : 03:32:04
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Actually, Since all of those books are usually sold righ next to the main novels in bookstores, I'd say a fair number of HP fans know of their existance. If not, they're freaking BLIND.
Every time I've seen Harry Potter books in a bookstore, it's been the novels, and that's it. I've not even seen the Beedle book in stores.
And I got the first 5 books from a bookstore, after they'd been out for a while, too. I also happened to (quite by accident!) wind up in the bookstore a few hours before the midnight release of book 6. No non-novel Harry Potter books were in sight.
I also have friends and family who are Harry Potter fans. None of them have any HP books outside of the novels.
I'm a Harry Potter fan, I read a lot, and I go to the bookstore frequently. I didn't even know those other books existed until they were mentioned in this thread, and I thought the Beedle book had been a limited-release only. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 23 Sep 2011 : 01:59:56
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
And the giant lady from Goblet of Fire wasn't British, either.
Madame Maxime. An interesting character in a weird way. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 23 Sep 2011 : 01:41:21
Actually, Since all of those books are usually sold righ next to the main novels in bookstores, I'd say a fair number of HP fans know of their existance. If not, they're freaking BLIND. Aside- I've read Beedle the Bard, and don't recall off-hand any references to wizards from other countries, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. That darn Norweigian dragon wasn't born in England!! And then there's Norbert... come to think of it, all the dragons from the HP series were from other countries, so obviously, there were wizards there to capture them. And the giant lady from Goblet of Fire wasn't British, either. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Sep 2011 : 22:26:50
quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
Oh, we're starting a fire. I brought some kindling.
Voldemort was nearly defeated by Dumbledore, so I think it's fair to say he would have difficuly with an archmage from either genre.
As for aparating ... it's not really fair to say that because wizards learn it their senior year of high school that it translates to them knowing 5th level spells. Knowing avra kedavra isn't the same as knowing power word kill, either, really. Very few wizards in HP can fly and most of those learned it from Voldemort.
Yeah, I think we can agree that Romanian, Egyptian, and [where are we saying Durmstang was] help counter the Euro-bias.
It doesn't quite make sense to outlaw the quidditch book and the magical creatures books, or Beedle the Bard's tales either. They have ISBN numbers ... they are real books. That would like limiting the Realms to one seven novel series, as well.
We know the time turners are at least somewhat difficult to make. They were all kept by the ministry of magic AND they were all destroyed during the battle of the department of ministries.
That all being said ... Larloch, Aumvor, Iolaum, Elminster ... any of these can likely kill Voldemort. I imagine Elminster would send a group of aventurers to hunt down the horcruxes and then face Voldemort, himself. Which ... was basically Dumbledore's plan, too.
Never trust old white-bearded wizards...
Romania is still Europe. And we didn't see anything of Egypt in the series, it was just mentioned in passing.
As for "outlawing" the books -- the vast majority of Harry Potter fans have never heard of those non-novel books. For most HP fans, the canon consists only of the books and the movie adaptations. Including the non-novels in the argument is much like referring to FR lore found only in the Forgotten Sands of Anauroch comics -- yes, they exist and have ISBN numbers, but they aren't referred to in other FR material and most FR fans don't know they exist.
When the very existence of lore is unknown to most, it's not fair to expect people to be familiar with it. |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 22 Sep 2011 : 21:59:12
Oh, we're starting a fire. I brought some kindling.
Voldemort was nearly defeated by Dumbledore, so I think it's fair to say he would have difficuly with an archmage from either genre.
As for aparating ... it's not really fair to say that because wizards learn it their senior year of high school that it translates to them knowing 5th level spells. Knowing avra kedavra isn't the same as knowing power word kill, either, really. Very few wizards in HP can fly and most of those learned it from Voldemort.
Yeah, I think we can agree that Romanian, Egyptian, and [where are we saying Durmstang was] help counter the Euro-bias.
It doesn't quite make sense to outlaw the quidditch book and the magical creatures books, or Beedle the Bard's tales either. They have ISBN numbers ... they are real books. That would like limiting the Realms to one seven novel series, as well.
We know the time turners are at least somewhat difficult to make. They were all kept by the ministry of magic AND they were all destroyed during the battle of the department of ministries.
That all being said ... Larloch, Aumvor, Iolaum, Elminster ... any of these can likely kill Voldemort. I imagine Elminster would send a group of aventurers to hunt down the horcruxes and then face Voldemort, himself. Which ... was basically Dumbledore's plan, too.
Never trust old white-bearded wizards... |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 21:19:10
Voldemort would be crushed by ANY Realmsian Archmage |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 19:58:27
Being familiar with both settings, I firmly believe that dnd wizards are more versatile and do not depend on wands or staves to cast (and no, Voldemort's wandless casting does not count, as it seems to be a unique trait amongst all HP wizards), so they are superior than HP wizards IMO. Then again, to be fair, the only wizards we encounter in the books are either students and teachers/uber-mages. Not many regular-everyday-normal wizards, besides a parent or two.
As for non-UK HP wizards, while it is hinted that several other countries have wizarding schools, it is certainly not more than a hint in any of the 7 novels.
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