| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 30 Mar 2011 : 21:13:07
Dorian Gray is a (non-D&D) fictional character from The Picture of Dorian Gray, best known these days as the "complicated" immortal character from The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
In short, Dorian Gray is a man with a magical portrait of himself. His appearance remains unchanging, young, attractive, and healthy while that of his portrait shows all his age, decay, abuse, and injury. Told as a classic Faustian horror tale wherein Dorian Gray gains eternal youth at the price of his humanity and his soul.
"The Portrait of Marquis Stezen D'Polarno", which keeps one of the darklords of Ravenloft alive and vital, is based on this.
I recall an adventure which had such a painting (protected with a prismatic sphere), it was even possible for the PCs to capture the special paints and make such a painting of their own. Does anyone know where this was published?
Nolzur's marvelous pigments are well known magic items. Does anyone have any especially creative suggestions for using these?
Do any other paints, paintings, and similar magical items exist in canon? My line of questioning is based on a magical artist, a sort of bard who works in paint and illustration instead of songs and tales. Do classes of this sort already exist? |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 01:24:59
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Golarion novel Winter Witch, by our own Elaine Cunningham, may provide you with some nifty ideas. 
Indeed. And I can't say too much now, but fellow Candlekeep scribes should expect something musically related to this popping up in these halls soon.  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 01:24:45
Almost all of which can be done by illusionists; they cannot employ the tricks of the bard in their work. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 01:03:29
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Magical paintings might seem unimpressive to us yet in the Realms offer the equivalents of television, video games, holodecks, and libraries.
All of which can be done by illusionists. I remember in Dangerous Games Sysquemalyn staged a "play," replete with loud sound, real-like actors, and resplendent setting, [to entertain her betters] using nothing but the magic of illusion. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 20:04:33
DM: You encounter an origami tarrasque, entirely fashioned from the finest dragonsilk paper.
Players: Fire! Wind! Water! Unfold! Crush! Scribble! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 19:53:57
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
The fact that the Grey Portrait is an artifect hints to me that the art of pingeromancy is long lost in the Realms.
Land of the Rising Sun, a sourcebook for the C&S RPG, introduced three new artificer classes to the game: the Painter, the Origami-master, and the weaver. Painters were also adapt at writing 'spell scrolls' (the oriental mystical type) using Calligraphy (similar to a western/Nordic Runemaster).
You can see why I still constantly plunder a game system that is more then 30 years old. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 19:43:30
In D&D - Magical statues (ranging from figurines to golems) are pretty standard fare. Magical songs and tales have branched off entire industries. Magical dancing is often used in deadly fighting styles. Magical writing functions as a reliable wizard-proximity indicator. So why would magical paintings, drawings, etchings, sketchings, weavings, and murals only be an amusing but unimportant little subset of magic?
See how much of our technological magic is poured into the creation (the abundant unrelenting saturation) of pictures and moving pictures, depictions of anything we can imagine, often in ways that appear absolutely indistinguishable from reality (lol, or even better than reality). Imagine what a magical society in the Realms must do for entertainment. Surely there must be persons dedicated to mastering the secrets of painted magic; a focus which might overlap with illusionists and bards yet remains distinct.
And imagine the practical applications ... an animated signboard in front of your pub or shoppe? An interactive painting of a beautific angel to greet visitors standing in the entry foyer of a noble's mansion? A painting of an unamusing mime locked within an invisible frame (to be hung in jailhouses)? An illustrated google map of a city? A painting which (upon recognizing a certain viewer) delivers a secret message? A network of last-supper paintings which allow people to "teleconferance" while keeping their identities anonymous? A painted zoo which allows the public to safely view all manner of exotic (and imaginary) creatures? Magical paintings might seem unimpressive to us yet in the Realms offer the equivalents of television, video games, holodecks, and libraries. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 18:36:24
The Golarion novel Winter Witch, by our own Elaine Cunningham, may provide you with some nifty ideas. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 16:07:56
*chuckles*
This subject is so out there and funny, but it could definately be terrifying aswell!
I remember I played an adventure in a roleplay NWN module that was based on the premise that a certain painting collection had become 'haunted'. Upon investigation the whole party got sucked INTO a painting and had to fight it's way out. The painting held a sorcerous figure that was trapped in a dark mystical cavern filled to the brim with poisonous spiders. I didn't last long with my (too curious) dagger tossing rogue, so I don't know how that story was supposed to end. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 15:39:11
There's one wizard in Fairy Tail who paints anything on his huge belly, and that something would immediately come to life. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 14:28:25
Those are some excellent ideas, Bladewind ... I am sort of asking specifically about a sort of painter as dedicated and talented to his art as a bard is to music and performance; a sort of visual progeny. Mastery of illusion, chromatics, prismatics, enchantments, dreams and nightmares might all be studied ... the craft might involve details that in some ways parallel our CGI and special effects. Duplicating and embellishing (or changing/disarming) magical runes, glyphs, sigils, and the like might be easy. Your suggestions for progressive development are excellent, I'm thinking of burning up some sort of PrC.
I like the notion of inadvertent spellcasting by merely viewing paintings. You might release all sorts of things from real and imagined hells. You might be trapped within Dali's or Dante's (or Volo's) surreal nightmares. You might be taken to the Far Realms or even transported through time. Why put a guard in your vault when you could paint an interactive army?
Could a sentient magical painting view other paintings? I'm imagining a Manshoon "paint clone" stealthily moving from frame to frame while invoking painted magics and command words. An art gallery might be horribly dangerous to unprotected visitors, a "private collection" might be a deathtrap. Vampiric paintings which prey upon (and level drain) unwary art critics?
Uh, "pingeromancer" is perhaps not the best name, it would actually be quite laughable to many Spanish speakers. I would instead suggest something like "chromamancer", "photomancer", or "animator" ... the ancient Greeks actually held artists and performers in very low regard, almost with contempt; painters were banausos ("little mechanics" or "little technicians"); in Latin they were a subset of armaturas ... the visual arts were never considered as important as the fine or liberal arts, even lowly sculptors and musicians were slightly more tolerable than painters, example. Ironically, many of the classical (and modern) artists we revere today lived with hard poverty and dubious social standing; even celebrated artists like Da Vinci and Michelangelo were forced to accept some rather terrible commissions.
There is a lot of truth to the proverb about paintings having little value until their painter dies. How valuable then is a painting which prolongues the painter's life? |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 11:19:03
The fact that the Grey Portrait is an artifect hints to me that the art of pingeromancy is long lost in the Realms. Perhaps its bardic art was deliberately shunned in the dawn of the Age of Humanity, because of debased artists getting whole neighboorhoods in trouble by unwittingly giving life to the nightmarisch creatures in their painting. Perhaps paintings can form gateways to the Plane of Dreams when drawn by a practised bard (or ones whose imaginations have been 'tainted' by the Plane of Dreams).
If the art of pingeromancy would be rediscovered I'd rule True Creation would only be possible at extreme levels and to paint artist with extreme skill. First permanent glamours and figments would be woven into a canvas, later on sound and movement would be mastered. When medium expertise is attained a bard practising pingeromancy would be able to make certain aspects of his painting partially real; just like an illusionist is able to infuse his figments with shadow essence an pingeromancer will do the same with the stuff of dreams. So disbelieving a pingeromancers effects would be quite devastating to their effectiveness (just like critics can ruin a painters carreer).
Imagine the horrors that would run rampant when pingeromancy didn't require so much skill, and that some abstract styled artists could create a monster from just scribbled lines and dots of paint...
Or orc children painting instilled with vigorous battlelust, coming charging for your head with duo-dimensional swords! |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 10:37:00
quote:
Markustay
There was character in Sanctuary/Thieves World series of novels that could "paint people's souls" (Lalo the Limner) ...
Although the character himself is frequently referenced, I only recall reading one tale with those details in (the earliest) Thieves' World books, IMO perhaps the best story of the lot. I recall thinking then that the tale itself seemed somehow familiar, like some sort of Aesop drawn from half-forgotten folklore and mythology; though my (20?) years of (haphazard and sporadic) searching still hasn't found any antecedants, so I suspect it was an entirely original creation. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 07:32:28
I found a wizards article which describes the Gray portrait (as an evil artifact  ), as well as (lesser and greater) living landscapes and tapestries of travel.
I suppose any magical mirror or scrying device could instead be presented as a magical painting. Sketchings of life trapping, portrait of opposition, etc. I'm also seeing the opportunity to invent all sorts of wonderful items like charcoal shades, Doria's deadly daub, easel of excellence, crayons of creation, etc. Think of the possibilities in naming colours: drow blue, lich black, fireball red, Elminster grey* ...
* To prevent confusion: "gray" is a color, "grey" is a colour. Same thing, different English, Greenwood is a Demicanadian who might go either way on this issue.
The debate of drow skin colour remains unresolved, but I'll maintain that "drow blue" is still the name of a colour.
Cartoons are awesome (and amusing) sources of inspiration for uses of Nolzur's marvelous pigments ... painted holes and doorways and tunnels, heeheehee. Though I find Spongebob usually gets a bit too demented to be useful, lol.
I like the interactive paintings from Harry Potter, at least as seen in the first handful of movies. (I haven't watched them all, nor read most of the books, sorry. ) Incidentally, how would these things work (in rough D&D terms)? How smart are they?
My barrage of questions - Can these magical pigments be used to permanently change personal appearance (like permanent cosmetics and tattoos)? Can they change your race? Can they paint healthy flesh over wounds? Can they wound a man from a distance? Can a brilliant artist-inventor (like DaRoni or Elfscher) paint complex engines, submarines, flying machines, and strange dimensional manipulations which might actually work? Can an alchemist paint a shelf full of neatly labelled potions? Can you paint a spell scroll or lost artifact (like a mythallar) into existence, or even something entirely new like a magical stargate? Can an adventurer paint a magical treasure map? Can a skilled artist paint something to become invisible? Can a magical painting depict a magical painting? (Yes, of course all of these things could be painted; what I'm asking is whether they'd duplicate/create magical items and properties ...)
Can a painting be sentient? How about a self-portrait, that is, a painting of a painter painting himself? Uncontrolled dopplepainters and artspawn (art golems? sketch monsters? paintghosts?) seem like an interesting plot idea ... a classic tale about flawed ego, id, and imago running rampant, perhaps even an artfully adapted retelling of The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde ... or The Modern Prometheus ... or Batman ...
I'm interested in knowing what other DMs have (dis)allowed with such items. I basically treat them as a sort of "minor wish" magic or as a programmed illusion, basically able to duplicate almost any spell up to about 5th level. The (very interesting) Myrjala/Mystra painting described above could basically be a painted commune spell. |
| Eldacar |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 03:59:40
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Do any other paints, paintings, and similar magical items exist in canon? My line of questioning is based on a magical artist, a sort of bard who works in paint and illustration instead of songs and tales. Do classes of this sort already exist?
In addition to the Grey Portrait in Champions of Ruin, there was also a painting of Myrjala/Mystra found at Windsong Tower in Myth Drannor. As I recall, it was painted by Elminster, and could be used as the magical equivalent of (more or less) a video-phone to talk to Mystra. The Shadovar destroyed it when they stole the Nether Scrolls (in the form of the Quess'Ar'Teranthvar) from Windsong Tower in the Cormyr-Shadowdale-Anauroch adventure path. |
| Brynweir |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 03:47:57
In Goodkind's Sword of Truth there was an artist who drew things on the walls of a cave and the things he drew happened. I think something like this has been used several places.
Also, I had a character with a painted map of the world, only it wasn't really a map. With the right phrase, one could touch the map and be teleported to that location.
For some reason I can't get the Looneytunes cartoons our of my head. Roadrunner or Bugs Bunny. How the coyote would paint a tunnel on the wall, and Roadrunner would make it through then Coyote would hit the wall or a train would come out and crush him.... Bugs did the same to Daffy and Fudd.
And sorry Arik, I am terrible on lore. I wish I knew. I do so love creative use of bards. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 03:44:43
One of my Adventure Hooks (in Volume VII of the Compendium) focused on a magical tapestry... Not quite the same thing, but it's an idea I liked. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 03:32:23
There was character in Sanctuary/Thieves World series of novels that could "paint people's souls" (Lalo the Limner), and later his talents expanded (but I can't remember specifics, because I read them many, MANY years ago). *Just read some online info, and he was able to bring his paintings to life with his breath.
Just last weak I was watching an episode of Fringe about a woman who could not die (and she was trying REAL hard). Her name was Dana Gray.
And since you had nerve-enough to use a Spongebob reference, I might as well bring-up Harold and the Purple Crayon. |
| Brynweir |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 03:18:28
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Pigments of Longevity from the green Encyclopedia Magica are used to paint the portraits I believe you are talking about. Several other magical paintings are detailed in the first book (the brown one) under Art. I remember reading a book where one of the main characters had a magical quill, and "drew things to life," but maybe twas an anime I saw, it'll come to me sooner or later. An intriguing idea, I don't remember any classes or kits as far back as 2e, but I'll look for ya.
Spongebob Squarepants had an episode like that with a magic pencil and an evil doodle |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 02:47:18
I recall a magical painting/mural of some sort in Dragonlance perhaps? Hmmm...really don't feel like pulling out those books; but the High Clerist's tower maybe? It was a tower, so it could have been LOTS of places in Dragonlance! 
Maybe someone with better memory or at hand resources could tell you more.
I did have a fellow player make a Scrying Device that was essentially an entire Wall Mural...it only showed "still pictures" however that refreshed at certain intervals...hope that isn't what I'm remembering. |
| Galuf the Dwarf |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 02:16:43
None that I'm aware of.  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 30 Mar 2011 : 22:38:23
Another piece of lore hidden within the dreaded Encyclopedia Magica tomes.
Ah, I should clarify. I'm thinking of creating/using such a painter-bard sort as an NPC. A whole school of them, in fact. I was wondering if any classes, PrCs, feats, etc relating to this (from any lore edition, preferably pre-4E) already exists. |
| Galuf the Dwarf |
Posted - 30 Mar 2011 : 22:33:51
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Do any other paints, paintings, and similar magical items exist in canon? My line of questioning is based on a magical artist, a sort of bard who works in paint and illustration instead of songs and tales. Do classes of this sort already exist?
There is the Grey Portrait from Champions of Ruin. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 30 Mar 2011 : 22:29:37
Pigments of Longevity from the green Encyclopedia Magica are used to paint the portraits I believe you are talking about. Several other magical paintings are detailed in the first book (the brown one) under Art. I remember reading a book where one of the main characters had a magical quill, and "drew things to life," but maybe twas an anime I saw, it'll come to me sooner or later. An intriguing idea, I don't remember any classes or kits as far back as 2e, but I'll look for ya. |
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