| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 27 Oct 2010 : 19:08:46
Anyone have a idea how I can make an NPC that specialized in making elven treehomes with 3.5 rules? I can't seem to find the 2nd edition woodshape spell in the spell list of the PHB, and warpwood seems to ruin the woods structure and strength. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 01 Nov 2010 : 00:53:56
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've seen a couple of really cool Treemen Ancients conversions, wherein they allowed Wood Elves to create small 'battle platforms' in their branches. It was a really neat idea, and I can see that in times of war. I couldn't find a pic of one unfortunately - I used to see a lot of great, inspiring stuff over at Coolminiornot.
Hmmm. WH's Treemen are usually spirits of Athel Loren who have entwined their essences with ancient trees of great life and power in the land. Perhaps the el-yads allowed to form these "battle platforms" are of the same spirit-family as the Treemen as well -- forging a more definitive and intimate connection between the Treemen and the el-yads. I think this fits the elven mindset more than the prospect of just allowing "any old" elf to dwell among the Treeman's branches.
Alternatively, maybe the Treemen are the ultimate expression of the most ancient el-yads -- as I've been saying above. The spirit-link between the el-yad and his/her chosen oak or other tree-type vessel eventually allows them to meld in order to create one entity. However, those descendants of the ancient el-yad-turned-Treeman, still maintain the spiritual essence of the family, and thus find the Treeman more welcoming when it comes to times of war. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 18:54:25
I was thinking more along the line of the tree being 'shaped' so as to have a treehouse, or just a platform (like what some hunters use) high-up in its branches - not so much within the trunk itself.
And this has gotten me thinking about something else - a high-level (Greater Dragonmarked) woodshaper could conceivably use his abilities to 'heal' a tree, including a treant - that would be kinda neat. 
I'm picturing a 'great war' being waged by the elves, and Woodshaper-medics on-hand to help their fallen Treelord allies.
EDIT:Would you believe while looking for a pic of a really cool mini I saw (of Elves fighting from the boughs of an Treeman/Ent), I got an insanely bad virus?
tryiing to fix the damn thing now... this sux.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 17:11:41
Yeah, the lesser dragonmarks had less abilities. You had to improve your dragonmark to get more abilities out of it. Same thing I'm suggesting.
And I'm not suggesting an actual marking of any kind -- just the mechanics behind it, though there could be external manifestations of the power. I think the mechanics could be easily adapted to woodshaping, and it nicely accomplishes the goal of having low-level people who could do nifty things with wood, but not much else.
I'm not a Warhammer Fantasy person, though I have a passing interest in WH40K (Space Wolves!).
Riding on a treant is one thing... I thought you were proposing magically hollowing one out to live inside it. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 16:41:38
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, you put some limits on it. Elven blood being a major one... And limit it to wood.
And just a feat would only give limited woodshaping abilities -- maybe a small opening, or smoothing out a small area. It's when they invest more in it -- either via more feats for improved versions of the ability, or thru a recasting of the Dragonmark Heir PrC -- that they gain the ability to shape entire rooms or encourage rapid wood growth. And it's only with the increased investment that they gain the bonuses to make it artistic, rather than simply functional.
Then I think we are really saying the same thing but approaching it from different angles.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, you still have the issue of PCs being able to do it... But how many are going to want to? That's also part of the reason I propose doing it as a limited PrC like the Dragonmark Heir -- it's not going to unbalance anything, even if a PC takes it, but still allows anyone (who meets the requirements) to master it without requiring decades of adventuring.
My problem wasn't with with PCs be able to do it, it was with them mastering it with a single feat (although I think I may have misunderstood).
I am not overly familiar with the Dragonmarks - I read about them when Eberron first came out (I have the Campaign and players guides), but I don't really remember the intricacieas of how they work. If I am understanding you correctly, a person has to 'put more into it' after they get the basic one (I vaguely remember something about 'levels' of Dragonmarks). So if it is a feat one needs to burn in order to get 'better marks', and thereby use more advanced Woodshaping techniques, then I really do believe we were saying almost exactly the same thing.
Your Dragonmark concept seems to be a blend of my feat-tree and Sage's 'bloodlines'. I really need to look at those rules again. Would you require an actual dragonmark, or would the veins take the place of that? (Becoming more pronounced with each level of 'mark'.)
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Honestly, while I can see scenarios where a PC would want this PrC, they are few and far between. Most PCs would likely go for something like a druid, instead, and get some of the same abilities along with stuff usefull for adventuring.
I LOVE the idea of this being an Elven racial feat (or bloodline, or Dragonmark Heir - its all the same). I wouldn't mind at all having an Elven player who could create a wooden mallet, or repair a wooden bowl, with a few minutes of singing and concentration - I think that would be VERY flavorful.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, and I'd rule that it couldn't be used on sentient plants. Would an elf really want to try living in a treant?
IIRC, you play Warhammer as well, right? (I remember you saying you played WM, but not sure about WH.)
I've seen a couple of really cool Treemen Ancients conversions, wherein they allowed Wood Elves to create small 'battle platforms' in their branches. It was a really neat idea, and I can see that in times of war. I couldn't find a pic of one unfortunately - I used to see a lot of great, inspiring stuff over at Coolminiornot.
And besides, didn't Merry and Pippin do exactly that? Temporarily of course, but that's what gave me the idea for that treeman quote.  |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 15:25:17
I stumbled upon some other bit that could fit in this puzzle. The Complete Rangers Handbook has a kit called the GreenWood Ranger or Limbant that invokes the gods to turn them gradually over the levels into a human hybrid-treant that can grow extra limbs and get nourishment from the sun and earth. These rangers quest for awhile in human form and after reaching level 4 they cover themselves with leaves and branches, buried in the earth, and emerge as a half-plant barkskinned humanoid.
A female version of the Limbant could very well be an elf hybrid-dryad that we are looking for. On of the first abilities a Limbant laerns is the ability to speak to plants at will; an essential basis for woodshaping through song is to speak in plant terms. Another ability is the capability to absorb water through roots on their feet and to regenerate fairly quickly in a immobile catatonic state of "rooting". At higer levels they can "limb" another dextrous appendage, functionaing as an extra arm great for manual crafting of any kind.
A descendant of an ancient elven Limbant could have inhereted the speaking to plant magic ability and could have established a caste of woodshapers with her powers ever since. Her skills in song, blending easthetic shapes into woodcraft added to the currently common tradition of woodgrafting. This magical symbiosis of a plantlike appendage and a woodshaper goes very far, as the shaper nourishes his arm-plant and without carefull monitoing both can get terrible diseases. As a benefit the woodshaper has a regenerating extra limb, that he himself can nurture and adjust its power and manual dexterity over the proces of a few days. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 15:16:24
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Hmm, I need to go search for an ecology article on dryads... because I don't believe a dryad can concieve a child. Not sure on that though.
There wasn't an "Ecology" article for the dryad, as I recall. Though Ed presented the hamadryad in a "Creature Catalog" in DRAGON #101. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 14:52:34
The dryad bloodline idea is very cool, especially the visual cues of a strand of green locks or leafy hair, or chlorofyl light shining from their blood through their veins when actively woodsinging. I have some problems making it work though.
Cormanthyr describes a high magic ritual, Fhoar Akh Tell'Quess, that allowed elder elf females to transform into dryads at the ends of their lives. It's the same ritual that prepares an elf for baelnorn transformation. Its clear that many dryads have relatives among the elves, but the presence of the Fhaoar Ahk Tell Quess ritual could be seen as evidence that dryads would be unable to actually produce a bloodline among elves, as they gave up their chance of getting elven offspring when assuming the wood-based dryad form.
Hmm, I need to go search for an ecology article on dryads... because I don't believe a dryad can concieve a child. Not sure on that though. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 05:44:48
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Honestly, while I can see scenarios where a PC would want this PrC, they are few and far between. Most PCs would likely go for something like a druid, instead, and get some of the same abilities along with stuff usefull for adventuring.
Agreed. I kinda see this as mostly background lore anyway. Especially given my more extreme example above about the el-yad eventually becoming a tree him/herself. You'd use it, mostly, to flesh out a part of an adventure, as an NPC or some-such.
quote:
Oh, and I'd rule that it couldn't be used on sentient plants. Would an elf really want to try living in a treant?
Actually, I'd make this more of a personal choice on the part of the el-yad woodshaper, rather than an actual ruling.
Some elves tend to display a deeper and more intuitive connection with their natural surroundings. It's not too much of a stretch to assume that both the treant and the el-yad would form a relationship similar to that of a dryad and an oak -- coming together for the mutual benefits granted by an almost symbiotic union between them. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 05:01:16
Oh, I don't know- it might be nice to have a home you can take everywhere with you- and use it to swat your enemies, too!!! Yes, I'm just that evil... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 04:47:32
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
My approach was also feat-based, but required a 'Feat Tree'. That allows for fairly low types to create small things like tools (Even a 1st level NPC gets at least two feats).
The magic of an elven High-mage was only required if you wanted to apply a Spellweb to the structure. Even smaller items (non-buildings) could be enchanted by a magic user with the feat without necessarily being a High mage. Only the mythal-like protections require high magic.
Wooly's method is simpler, but I think it gives too much for just one feat (which is why I do not player Eberron - I do not like high-powered games).
Basically the progression works out the same, with a person able to still have a 'normal' class, but I don't really care for the idea that PCs could do something (just by burning a single feat) that Elves have spent thousands of years perfecting. Its not just an ability; its also an art.
Plus, if it were that easy, then you'd get some slimey elves selling people Tree Homes on every corner.
I just thought of something... If you used this ability on an intelligent or mobile piece of Flora, could you create a Mobil-home? 
I think I just invented Elven trailor parks. 
Treant: "Dadburn halflings! I can't get them outta my branches! Who the hades taught them how to build a treehouse? Now I got to call pest control!"
Well, you put some limits on it. Elven blood being a major one... And limit it to wood.
And just a feat would only give limited woodshaping abilities -- maybe a small opening, or smoothing out a small area. It's when they invest more in it -- either via more feats for improved versions of the ability, or thru a recasting of the Dragonmark Heir PrC -- that they gain the ability to shape entire rooms or encourage rapid wood growth. And it's only with the increased investment that they gain the bonuses to make it artistic, rather than simply functional.
Yeah, you still have the issue of PCs being able to do it... But how many are going to want to? That's also part of the reason I propose doing it as a limited PrC like the Dragonmark Heir -- it's not going to unbalance anything, even if a PC takes it, but still allows anyone (who meets the requirements) to master it without requiring decades of adventuring.
Honestly, while I can see scenarios where a PC would want this PrC, they are few and far between. Most PCs would likely go for something like a druid, instead, and get some of the same abilities along with stuff usefull for adventuring.
Oh, and I'd rule that it couldn't be used on sentient plants. Would an elf really want to try living in a treant? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 03:34:56
My approach was also feat-based, but required a 'Feat Tree'. That allows for fairly low types to create small things like tools (Even a 1st level NPC gets at least two feats).
The magic of an elven High-mage was only required if you wanted to apply a Spellweb to the structure. Even smaller items (non-buildings) could be enchanted by a magic user with the feat without necessarily being a High mage. Only the mythal-like protections require high magic.
Wooly's method is simpler, but I think it gives too much for just one feat (which is why I do not player Eberron - I do not like high-powered games).
Basically the progression works out the same, with a person able to still have a 'normal' class, but I don't really care for the idea that PCs could do something (just by burning a single feat) that Elves have spent thousands of years perfecting. Its not just an ability; its also an art.
Plus, if it were that easy, then you'd get some slimey elves selling people Tree Homes on every corner.
I just thought of something... If you used this ability on an intelligent or mobile piece of Flora, could you create a Mobil-home?
I think I just invented Elven trailor parks.
Treant: "Dadburn halflings! I can't get them outta my branches! Who the hades taught them how to build a treehouse? Now I got to call pest control!" |
| The Sage |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 03:12:20
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Additionally, this means that our treeshapers (Woodsingers, if you will) don't have to train forever in just one class. Woodsinger #1 could be a warrior, Woodsinger #2 could be a priestess of Hanali Celanil, and Woodsinger #3 could be a simple baker.
So we have more Woodsingers and thus more capability of shaping wood, none of them have to be solely dedicated to it, and everything else remains fairly balanced.
In my mind, it's a simpler, lower-level approach.
I like the approach the low level approach that Wolly is proposing. It seems that it would work much better than my own approach in the smaller elven villages and for strongholds for the wandering green elves of the Border Forest.
I have none of the Ebberon material, so I'm not sure what a dragonmark is nor what Dragonmark Heir PrC involves. I'll have to see if any of my players have the necessary material. Is there an explaination of these terms somwhere online? And btw I'm not looking for a torrent with copyrighted material.
Really short version: In the Eber-whatsit setting, some people are born with these funky mystical birthmarks called dragonmarks. These dragonmarks give them specific magical powers. The Dragonmark Heir PrC is a 5-level PrC that allows them to get more in tune with their dragonmark, and thus get more abilities out of it.
The Eberron Campaign Setting discusses dragonmarks, and this PrC. It's a 3E book, so you can likely get it for a reasonable price either online or in your FLGS. I've twice bought it from eBay for much less than its cover price.
I'll note also, that the Dragonmarked tome elaborates on the details for the Dragonmarks system presented in the Eberrron Campaign Setting. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 02:49:56
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Additionally, this means that our treeshapers (Woodsingers, if you will) don't have to train forever in just one class. Woodsinger #1 could be a warrior, Woodsinger #2 could be a priestess of Hanali Celanil, and Woodsinger #3 could be a simple baker.
So we have more Woodsingers and thus more capability of shaping wood, none of them have to be solely dedicated to it, and everything else remains fairly balanced.
In my mind, it's a simpler, lower-level approach.
I like the approach the low level approach that Wolly is proposing. It seems that it would work much better than my own approach in the smaller elven villages and for strongholds for the wandering green elves of the Border Forest.
I have none of the Ebberon material, so I'm not sure what a dragonmark is nor what Dragonmark Heir PrC involves. I'll have to see if any of my players have the necessary material. Is there an explaination of these terms somwhere online? And btw I'm not looking for a torrent with copyrighted material.
Really short version: In the Eber-whatsit setting, some people are born with these funky mystical birthmarks called dragonmarks. These dragonmarks give them specific magical powers. The Dragonmark Heir PrC is a 5-level PrC that allows them to get more in tune with their dragonmark, and thus get more abilities out of it.
The Eberron Campaign Setting discusses dragonmarks, and this PrC. It's a 3E book, so you can likely get it for a reasonable price either online or in your FLGS. I've twice bought it from eBay for much less than its cover price. |
| Halidan |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 01:17:23
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Additionally, this means that our treeshapers (Woodsingers, if you will) don't have to train forever in just one class. Woodsinger #1 could be a warrior, Woodsinger #2 could be a priestess of Hanali Celanil, and Woodsinger #3 could be a simple baker.
So we have more Woodsingers and thus more capability of shaping wood, none of them have to be solely dedicated to it, and everything else remains fairly balanced.
In my mind, it's a simpler, lower-level approach.
I like the approach the low level approach that Wolly is proposing. It seems that it would work much better than my own approach in the smaller elven villages and for strongholds for the wandering green elves of the Border Forest.
I have none of the Ebberon material, so I'm not sure what a dragonmark is nor what Dragonmark Heir PrC involves. I'll have to see if any of my players have the necessary material. Is there an explaination of these terms somwhere online? And btw I'm not looking for a torrent with copyrighted material. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 31 Oct 2010 : 01:01:13
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Compromise:
The veins are VERY subtle, and are normally hard to discern with the naked eye (unless you have excellent Elven vision and know what to look for). However, when 'Shaping', the veins begin to glow; the more intense the shaping, the more the veins stand out.
Neat. The only tidbit I'd add, is that the more ancient the bloodline among the el-yad families, the less subtle the veins become. Perhaps to illustrate just how long and intimate the connection between the elves and dryads has become? I'm only focusing on this, because I eventually see some of the eldest el-yads actually reaching a point in their woodshaping evolution, that they literally become some of the very tree-like structures the elves reside in.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 18:51:58
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I like it, but it is a bit much, so how about a...
Compromise:
The veins are VERY subtle, and are normally hard to discern with the naked eye (unless you have excellent Elven vision and know what to look for). However, when 'Shaping', the veins begin to glow; the more intense the shaping, the more the veins stand out.
Caveat: Elves are able to obtain nutrition from sunlight (that's canon), and can even sustain themselves for short periods of time on just sunlight alone (in fact, they require it every so often, which is why Elves held in captivity never last very long).
All this branch of Elven learning does is allow The Woodshaper to access that part of their blood that holds a 'kinship' to plants (Chlorophyll?). Ergo, when they use this ability it stimulates that part of their blood and 'super-charge' it, which allows them to Shape and also causes the glow. They are basically just feeding magical energies into a recessive (yet hereditary) Fey gene.
At higher levels (Paragon & Epic) I can see giving them some of the abilites found in a couple of 2e's druid Kits (like having bark-like skin, etc), and at the Immortal tier (you haven't heard? Thats planned for 5e) the Woodshaper becomes a treant.
So you have:
1-10 = Woodshaper
11-20 = WoodWarden
21-30 = Forestal (from the Thomas Covenant novels)
31-40 = Treant
41+ (Ascension) = Elder Treelord (Ent, grandfather Tree, etc); character removed from play (if that hasn't happened already).
BTW, these are all really just 'rules of thumb' for DMs - I really don't think anyone would play a PC Woodshaper, and detailed rules for NPCs aren't necessary (so these are just guidelines).
See, this is why I've been advocating the dragonmark approach -- specifically, something based on the Dragonmark Heir PrC. It's only a 5 level PrC, so for even the most dedicated adventuring type, it's not a class that takes a lot of their time and XP.
My main point is that with so much treeshaping having happened, it makes more sense for it to have been done by many elves of lesser levels, instead of fewer elves of higher levels. A five-level PrC would be far more common than a 20+ level PrC.
Additionally, this means that our treeshapers (Woodsingers, if you will) don't have to train forever in just one class. Woodsinger #1 could be a warrior, Woodsinger #2 could be a priestess of Hanali Celanil, and Woodsinger #3 could be a simple baker.
So we have more Woodsingers and thus more capability of shaping wood, none of them have to be solely dedicated to it, and everything else remains fairly balanced.
In my mind, it's a simpler, lower-level approach. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 17:34:23
I like it, but it is a bit much, so how about a...
Compromise:
The veins are VERY subtle, and are normally hard to discern with the naked eye (unless you have excellent Elven vision and know what to look for). However, when 'Shaping', the veins begin to glow; the more intense the shaping, the more the veins stand out.
Caveat: Elves are able to obtain nutrition from sunlight (that's canon), and can even sustain themselves for short periods of time on just sunlight alone (in fact, they require it every so often, which is why Elves held in captivity never last very long).
All this branch of Elven learning does is allow The Woodshaper to access that part of their blood that holds a 'kinship' to plants (Chlorophyll?). Ergo, when they use this ability it stimulates that part of their blood and 'super-charge' it, which allows them to Shape and also causes the glow. They are basically just feeding magical energies into a recessive (yet hereditary) Fey gene.
At higher levels (Paragon & Epic) I can see giving them some of the abilites found in a couple of 2e's druid Kits (like having bark-like skin, etc), and at the Immortal tier (you haven't heard? Thats planned for 5e) the Woodshaper becomes a treant.
So you have:
1-10 = Woodshaper
11-20 = WoodWarden
21-30 = Forestal (from the Thomas Covenant novels, similar to a Wood Giant)
31-40 = Treant
41+ (Ascension) = Elder Treelord (Ent, grandfather Tree, etc); character removed from play (if that hasn't happened already).
BTW, these are all really just 'rules of thumb' for DMs - I really don't think anyone would play a PC Woodshaper, and detailed rules for NPCs aren't necessary (so these are just guidelines). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 17:20:38
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Don't know that I'd go that far, but it works.
I suppose a less-intense interpretation would see only the most ancient el-yads display these tree-veins. A consequence, perhaps, of centuries of woodshaping that has seen these el-yads almost become trees themselves.
That works better for me. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 16:47:22
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Don't know that I'd go that far, but it works.
I suppose a less-intense interpretation would see only the most ancient el-yads display these tree-veins. A consequence, perhaps, of centuries of woodshaping that has seen these el-yads almost become trees themselves. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 16:34:29
Don't know that I'd go that far, but it works. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 15:52:39
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Hmmm. Perhaps a more naturalist interpretation of EBERRON's Mark of Making? Though, instead of being granted the power to craft items from material/artificial goods, this "Mark of Woodshaping" [for lack of a better term at the moment], grants these elven/dryad offspring with the power to mend and shape natural materials, like wood, stone, etc.
Exactly! Though with the dryad heritage, I'd expect it to be more plant-oriented than anything else.
Well, I'd assume these elven/dryad hybrids would inherit some of the tree-sprite aspects of their ancestor dryads, which is why I stated "wood" specifically.
quote:
Though you could still go with some physical manifestation of the power -- maybe a single lock of green hair for those with a minor, untrained woodshaping power, going all the way up to all hair being a deep, deep green, for those most trained and talented (maybe even with a few leaves popping up here and there!).
I'd take it a step further, actually, and have these "el-yads" [elven-dryads] develop subtle tree-vein like physical attributes just beneath the skin as their command of the woodshaping ability, manifests. The complexity of the appearance of the veins could then potentially represent the overall level of power and speciality each el-yad has. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 15:32:57
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Hmmm. Perhaps a more naturalist interpretation of EBERRON's Mark of Making? Though, instead of being granted the power to craft items from material/artificial goods, this "Mark of Woodshaping" [for lack of a better term at the moment], grants these elven/dryad offspring with the power to mend and shape natural materials, like wood, stone, etc.
Exactly! Though with the dryad heritage, I'd expect it to be more plant-oriented than anything else.
And if it's not clear for anyone reading this: it's not an actual mark like the dragonmarks of Eber-whatsit. That's just a handy, existing mechanic that I think could be adapted. Though you could still go with some physical manifestation of the power -- maybe a single lock of green hair for those with a minor, untrained woodshaping power, going all the way up to all hair being a deep, deep green, for those most trained and talented (maybe even with a few leaves popping up here and there!). |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 07:03:57
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And we know that in Ed's Realms, some characters have innate talents -- small, inborn uses of a single bit of magic.
Why not combine the two? Maybe treeshaping is an innate talent, one that could run in families and that could be improved by training. Taking it this way, one could adapt Eber-whatsit's dragonmark system into something that would work for treeshaping.
This is actually similar to what I've been considering for this.
However, I've started tinkering with the possibility that the innate woodshaping bloodline was the result of an inherited trait from an ancient union between families of elves and dryads. Essentially, the aspect of the dryad that ties them to a specific type of tree has carried over into the bloodline of the elven/dryad descendants and, coupled with the inherent arcane talents of all elves, has endowed these offspring with an ability to "shape" the woods they have an affinity for, into the structures they desire.
I like that idea. And I don't see it as incompatible with my thoughts. This dryad heritage could be the source of the "dragonmark". Same idea, just a bit more background.
Hmmm. Perhaps a more naturalist interpretation of EBERRON's Mark of Making? Though, instead of being granted the power to craft items from material/artificial goods, this "Mark of Woodshaping" [for lack of a better term at the moment], grants these elven/dryad offspring with the power to mend and shape natural materials, like wood, stone, etc. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 05:18:16
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And we know that in Ed's Realms, some characters have innate talents -- small, inborn uses of a single bit of magic.
Why not combine the two? Maybe treeshaping is an innate talent, one that could run in families and that could be improved by training. Taking it this way, one could adapt Eber-whatsit's dragonmark system into something that would work for treeshaping.
This is actually similar to what I've been considering for this.
However, I've started tinkering with the possibility that the innate woodshaping bloodline was the result of an inherited trait from an ancient union between families of elves and dryads. Essentially, the aspect of the dryad that ties them to a specific type of tree has carried over into the bloodline of the elven/dryad descendants and, coupled with the inherent arcane talents of all elves, has endowed these offspring with an ability to "shape" the woods they have an affinity for, into the structures they desire.
I like that idea. And I don't see it as incompatible with my thoughts. This dryad heritage could be the source of the "dragonmark". Same idea, just a bit more background. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 03:21:24
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And we know that in Ed's Realms, some characters have innate talents -- small, inborn uses of a single bit of magic.
Why not combine the two? Maybe treeshaping is an innate talent, one that could run in families and that could be improved by training. Taking it this way, one could adapt Eber-whatsit's dragonmark system into something that would work for treeshaping.
This is actually similar to what I've been considering for this.
However, I've started tinkering with the possibility that the innate woodshaping bloodline was the result of an inherited trait from an ancient union between families of elves and dryads. Essentially, the aspect of the dryad that ties them to a specific type of tree has carried over into the bloodline of the elven/dryad descendants and, coupled with the inherent arcane talents of all elves, has endowed these offspring with an ability to "shape" the woods they have an affinity for, into the structures they desire. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 02:59:19
Actually, it doesn't even have to be evil deeds. It can be as simple as choosing a mate from the wrong House caste, or, in Dalamar's case, studying magic when you're not from the proper House to do so (this was BEFORE he went "evil". Also the reason for it...). Their rules for caste interactions were VERY strict, and the process Sage mentioned (and that I adapted for my Banishing of elves to become drow IMC) involves standing in a circle made of an enchanted chain for an entire night, in front of a mirror that shows the future outcome of one's current course, as well as what would happen if that course is changed. At the end of it, they are either wrapped tight in the chain("guilty"- and banished) or not ("innocent", and set free to do as they intended). This was all detailed in The Sylvan Veil supplement. Essentially, their idea of "going dark", is really just rebelling against the rigid structure of their society. Which is apperently far more lawful than the elves of other settings.
I altered the ceremony into something a bit more like a trial. One stands in front of a Tribunal in a zone of truth (VERY high level/DC!) while being judged for the alleged crimes. If found guilty of the charge(s), a circle of Seldarine high priests (one of each) casts the curse to change them into drow, they are pronounced N'Tel'Quess, and all lands, properties, ect but what they can physically carry are stripped, and they are escorted out of elven lands by armed guard (no magic allowed to them during the trip), with their crimes being announced to all along the way. Afterward, their names are stricken from all records and history as if they never lived, and they are killed on sight if they return. (The exile and expulsion of records part I took almost straight from the Krynn version.) No elf even speaks their names again.
Oh, MT- the only group I'd consider "mentally challenged" from DL is the Gully Dwarves! LOL!! |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 02:57:49
You know... I'm thinking that with the number of elven homes grown from trees, either the elves tossed around huge amounts of magic for just single-family homes.
So maybe High Magic and elaborate rituals are not the right method. The character Redlance in the Elfquest series had the magical ability to coax plants to grow in particular fashions, to the point of having a tree sprout a yard-long spear in mere seconds. And that was his only magical ability.
And we know that in Ed's Realms, some characters have innate talents -- small, inborn uses of a single bit of magic.
Why not combine the two? Maybe treeshaping is an innate talent, one that could run in families and that could be improved by training. Taking it this way, one could adapt Eber-whatsit's dragonmark system into something that would work for treeshaping.
That gives us plenty of elves able to shape plants and trees, built on an existing mechanical system. And it doesn't require the huge numbers or huge amount of magic. A few families of skilled shapers -- or a Shaper's Guild -- could craft a lot of treehomes, but wouldn't unbalance things by requiring a lot of high-level spellslingers. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 02:17:51
Sooooo...
"Going Dark" for just a wild weekend is out of the question, eh?
They must throw awfully boring bachelor parties. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 02:09:45
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The only thing I know for certain was that there were several different groups, and the wood elves were pretty damn stupid (from the Player's Guide, I got the idea that the other groups considered them 'mentally challenged').
I wouldn't say the Kagonesti are stupid. They're just generally stronger and bigger than their more civilised cousins [the Silvanesti and Qualinesti] and dislike the hustle and bustle of the big cities, preferring the quiet atmosphere of their forests. And I think that's reflected in their collective racial mindset. Thus, the more civilised races [like the arrogant Silvanesti] would tend to view them as "louts" or "under-educated brutes."
quote:
Other then that, and the fact that their 'dark Elves' aren't Drow, I know nearly nothing about DL's Elves.
Indeed. The "dark elves" of Krynn are simply Qualinesti or Silvanesti, etc. elves that have been cast out of elven society for evil deeds, or something similar. There's an entirely long and involved process for this however, and it's not a decision that's made lightly. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Oct 2010 : 01:52:23
Weird, because I never really bothered to look into Krynn in all that much detail, and most especially not the Elves. All I ever read (aside from the MM's) was the Minotaur book and the Player's guide (which was more like a story, just like the old FR Player's Guide). The only thing I know for certain was that there were several different groups, and the wood elves were pretty damn stupid (from the Player's Guide, I got the idea that the other groups considered them 'mentally challenged'). Other then that, and the fact that their 'dark Elves' aren't Drow, I know nearly nothing about DL's Elves.
Yet I almost recreated exactly that with my own concept of Woodshapers. I guess certain things about Elves are always 'a given'; they like trees better then people. |
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