| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Last Guardian |
Posted - 22 Oct 2010 : 04:30:31
Hello fellow seekers of lore,
For the life of me I remember seeing somewhere some of the names of the old kings of Mithril Hall. I'm looking for the 1st King in particular. Anyone remember his name and the years he ruled during? Thanks! |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BEAST |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 00:17:04
Bump: Added note about Mithral Hall forefather to my post with the list. |
| Acolyte Thirteen |
Posted - 28 Oct 2010 : 19:30:03
I agree with Knight at the Gate. I see no reason to ret-con Garumn's legacy. If we ever find out more, *then* it will be a ret-con! |
| BEAST |
Posted - 28 Oct 2010 : 18:45:02
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Or it could be that the gorge had a different, less memorable name, and that Garumn fell to his death in it (or held off an incursion at it, or ordered that it finally be fully assayed, etc.) causing it to be renamed by historians in his honor.
Aye, it could have been renamed in his honor more recently.
But Streams of Silver says that King Garumn fell during battle with duergar in the western entrance hall, which is on the opposite side of Mithral Hall from Garumn's Gorge, which is on the eastern side. |
| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 27 Oct 2010 : 22:49:50
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
[SNIP
Since the 6th Battlehammer king, Garumn, was apparently the namesake of the large chasm on the eastern side of Mithral Hall known as "Garumn's Gorge", then it is possible that the structure called "Tunult's Cavern", mentioned as a battlefield in Siege of Darkness, was also named for a former Battlehammer king. If so, then this would mean that one of the unknown kings could have been named King Tunult Battlehammer.
One possible problem with the notion that Garumn's Gorge was named after the sixth king, is that it seems implausible that the chasm would go unnamed for the centuries that transpired before Garumn (#6) assumed the throne, because it was a major structure right at the primary entrance to Mithral Hall, and would therefore have to have been mastered early in the clan's history. Therefore, it is possible that Garumn's Gorge could have been named after a prior King Garumn, before #6. If that is the case, then we might have the name of yet another of the unknown Battlehammer kings. (We have established precedent for this, since we already know that there were at least two "Bruenor" Battlehammers.)
SNIP
Or it could be that the gorge had a different, less memorable name, and that Garumn fell to his death in it (or held off an incursion at it, or ordered that it finally be fully assayed, etc.) causing it to be renamed by historians in his honor. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 27 Oct 2010 : 21:11:04
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
Ganadalug, don't you mean? By all accounts, Garumn had been partying hard with Moradin for quite some years before all this occurred.
Ah, yes. Had too much Garumn on the brain! I will fix it.
And you're very welcome, TLG. This was fun! |
| Sandro |
Posted - 27 Oct 2010 : 08:34:41
quote:
And apparently during this adventure, King Garumn worked up the energy to take one last journey to Silverymoon and serve as a formal signatory to the Articles of Confederation of the League of the Silver Marches. (Lore citing Bruenor as signatory must surely be mistaken, as Bruenor could not have been in Silverymoon when he was off adventuring up and down the Sword Coast in search of his son.)
But alas, this journey would appear to have been King Garumn's last. Shortly after the Companions recovered Wulfgar and the warhammer at the end of Sea of Swords, news arrives that King Garumn has passed. Perhaps the travel to Silverymoon, and maybe back to the Hall, was too much for the old dwarf?
Ganadalug, don't you mean? By all accounts, Garumn had been partying hard with Moradin for quite some years before all this occurred. |
| The Last Guardian |
Posted - 26 Oct 2010 : 16:47:49
Thanks Beast, that is all extremely useful lore! |
| BEAST |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 21:21:47
(spoiler from the newest novel Gauntlgrym:)
There is mention of a forefather of Mithral Hall who wore the foaming mug standard back during the time when dwarves lived in Gauntlgrym, and here, Gauntlgrym is said to be much older than Mithral Hall. This would seem to indicate that Gandalug later took the standard of a pre-existing dwarf clan to serve as that of his own new familial group: Clan Battlehammer.
(/spoiler)
1) Gandalug Battlehammer founded Clan Battlehammer and Mithral Hall, about 2000 years before The Legacy. At age 400, he abdicated the throne and left on a final personal quest for adventure, only to be captured by a young Princess Yvonnel Baenre and held for 2000 years.
(Hall of Heroes originally reported that a Bunko Battlehammer was the one who led the clan to found Mithral Hall, but this is probably, well, bunk.)
2) Bruenor Battlehammer. Gandalug's third son Bruenor (not the one we're familiar with) became king when Gandalug abdicated the throne (The Legacy). It is this Bruenor whose personal battle armor became the official royal armor of all future Battlehammer kings (Streams of Silver).
3) NA
4) NA
5) NA
Perhaps Hall of Heroes' mistaken reference to Bunko Battlehammer was merely a case of confusion over a real Bunko's position in the sequence of Battlehammer kings. Maybe he was third or fourth, rather than first? He might've been mistaken as the founder because of some other important accomplishments that gave him notoriety during life, and then a later scribe made the leap to him also having been the founder. If so, this could help fill in the missing names. (I know that that would be a significant scribal error, and it requires a long stretch of our imaginations, but it's still possible.)
Since the 6th Battlehammer king, Garumn, was apparently the namesake of the large chasm on the eastern side of Mithral Hall known as "Garumn's Gorge", then it is possible that the structure called "Tunult's Cavern", mentioned as a battlefield in Siege of Darkness, was also named for a former Battlehammer king. If so, then this would mean that one of the unknown kings could have been named King Tunult Battlehammer.
One possible problem with the notion that Garumn's Gorge was named after the sixth king, is that it seems implausible that the chasm would go unnamed for the centuries that transpired before Garumn (#6) assumed the throne, because it was a major structure right at the primary entrance to Mithral Hall, and would therefore have to have been mastered early in the clan's history. Therefore, it is possible that Garumn's Gorge could have been named after a prior King Garumn, before #6. If that is the case, then we might have the name of yet another of the unknown Battlehammer kings. (We have established precedent for this, since we already know that there were at least two "Bruenor" Battlehammers.)
So, perhaps, the missing names in the sequence are:
- 3) [Garumn Battlehammer? Namesake of Garumn's Gorge.]
- 4) [Bunko Battlehammer? Mistakenly cited as the founder of the clan and the Hall.]
- 5) [Tunult Battlehammer? Namesake of the network of caves known as Tunult's Cavern.]
6) Garumn Battlehammer served as king during the time of the short story "The First Notch", and also when Shimmergloom the shadow dragon and his minions invaded the Hall (Streams of Silver).
7) Bangor Battlehammer. Since Bruenor's father Bangor Battlehammer was memorialized in one of seven busts in the Hall of Kings in Mithral Hall (Streams of Silver), then this would seem to indicate that Bangor likewise served as king, at least for some short period of time. Given the history of Shimmergloom's conquest of the Hall, it would seem that Bangor's reign was very short, indeed. As Bruenor would later find the corpse of Garumn still wearing the royal battle armor of the clan inside the entrance hall of the Hall, while Bangor was only wearing his personal armor, this would seem to show that Garumn died first, and then Bangor effectively became king during battle shortly thereafter, only to die before he could don the royal armor, himself.
My guess is that King Garumn initially sent Prince Bangor and refugees away from the Hall to Settlestone when the dragon struck, with instructions to await updates. When no news came from the Hall, as King Garumn had apparently already fallen, I am guessing that Prince Bangor took a contingent of dwarves back to the Hall to find out what happened, but they never returned. They probably died in battle, too. The remaining elders among the Battlehammer refugees at Settlestone then surmised that young Prince Bruenor had then become king, and they whisked everyone away for safety, eventually arriving in Icewind Dale.
But this begs the question: If Bangor served as king for such a short term, then how did the Battlehammer dwarves already have a bust of him set up in the Hall of Kings before the eviction of the clan, which Bruenor found upon return in Stream of Silver? Wouldn't that mean that Bangor was already serving as king before the eviction? And if so, then why was Garumn's corpse still wearing the royal armor when Bruenor returned to the Hall?
Might Garumn have been preparing to step down, and might the building of a bust of Bangor have been ordered, before Shimmergloom attacked, and might the royal armor not have been fitted for Bangor yet? Are royal busts usually contracted for in this way: before a person actually assumes the throne?
One possible solution could be that, despite what the books say, there were actually only six busts in the Hall of Kings during Bruenor's childhood, and when Bruenor returned to the Hall--including King Garumn's, while Bangor was still only the prince. Perhaps Bangor did briefly serve as King of Mithral Hall after Shimmergloom's arrival, but there would not have actually been opportunity to erect a statue in his honor during the disaster. His bust would have to wait until centuries later, when his son Bruenor assumed the throne, and a bust was being carved in his honor, as well. Maybe the Battlehammer dwarves prepared two busts at the same time: one for fallen Bangor, as seventh king; and another for Bruenor, as eighth.
8) Bruenor Battlehammer. Good ol' Bruenor Battlehammer!
9) Gandalug Battlehammer. Having been returned to the Material Plane by Matron Yvonnel Baenre in Siege of Darkness, Bruenor later abdicated the throne, and Gandalug once again served as King of Mithral Hall, with Bruenor returning to Icewind Dale (Passage to Dawn).
Lorebooks report that "King Bruenor" represented Mithral Hall at diplomatic meetings that gave rise to the League of the Silver Marches, but if this is so, it must've only been in the capacity of emissary of the Hall, rather than as king, as Gandalug was still on the throne. This would make some sense, as King Gandalug was quite old, and probably already suffering from poor health, which would make frequent travel and long meetings difficult, and would therefore make the use of some sort of emissary in Gandalug's place a wise move; but exactly why Bruenor was chosen, who would have to come all the way from Icewind Dale, rather than dwarves then-presently living in the Hall, such as Generals Dagna Waybeard or Banak Brawnanvil, is unclear.
The lorebooks' references to Bruenor as "King Bruenor" might be the result of it actually having been Bruenor who attended most of the meetings, but then some scribe failed to realize that Bruenor was only serving as emissary; someone might not have ever gotten the memo that Gandalug had assumed the throne at all; or, the title "King" might also be used generously as an honorific for former kings in the Realms, similarly to how the title "Mr. President" is still used for former presidents of the United States in the Real Realms.
At any rate, it would appear that Bruenor served in this ambassadorial capacity, regularly traveling from Icewind Dale all the way to Silverymoon to participate in the important political discussions, until the novel Sea of Swords, at which time Bruenor was needed along the Sword Coast to assist in relocating the warhammer Aegis-fang and his wayward son Wulfgar.
And apparently during this adventure, King Gandalug worked up the energy to take a journey to Silverymoon and serve as a formal signatory to the Articles of Confederation of the League of the Silver Marches. (Lore citing Bruenor as signatory must surely be mistaken, as Bruenor could not have been in Silverymoon when he was off adventuring up and down the Sword Coast in search of his son.)
But alas, this journey would appear to have been King Gandalug's last. Shortly after the Companions recovered Wulfgar and the warhammer at the end of Sea of Swords, news arrives that King Gandalug has passed. Perhaps the travel to Silverymoon, and maybe back to the Hall, was too much for the old dwarf?
10) Bruenor Battlehammer. Bruenor then becomes tenth king, gathers the clan members in Icewind Dale, and leads a caravan in a roundabout manner back to Mithral Hall (The Thousand Orcs).
(spoilers from Gauntlgrym:)
11) Banak Brawnanvil Battlehammer. In preparation for a personal quest for Gauntlgrym, Bruenor abdicates his throne by faking his death, and his cousin War Commander General Banak Brawnanvil then assumes the position of king and the clan surname.
12) Connerad Brawnanvil Battlehammer. As Banak was fairly old, himself, when he became king, it was not long before his son eventually assumed the throne.
(/spoiler)
EDIT: Corrected references to "Garumn" in section 9, changing them to "Gandalug", since that's who the section was all about.
Also added speculation about the unknown kings.
Fixed various typos.
EDIT, 14-NOV: Added blurb about Mithral Hall forefather. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 22 Oct 2010 : 16:16:55
quote:
Originally posted by The Last Guardian
Thanks alot! I remember that name, though I didn't think he was the first king, just one of the earlier kings. I'm running a few small sessions set in past, some thirty years before the fall of nethril using 4th ed rules. I couldn't find any references to the founding of mithril hall so i'm placing it sometime years after. The players are going to encounter Gandalug before he becomes first king.
I write abit of sci-fi and the last guardian is the name of the main character in my stories. I play warcraft but have yet to read any of the novels. Still trying to catch up to my pile of FR novels that i have yet to read. =)
Jeff Grubb (who wrote The Last Guardian) is a great author. I recommend you read his books. He also wrote FR novels, Cormyr being the most popular, I guess. But what I consider his masterpiece is set in Magic: The Gathering – The Ice Age series. |
| The Last Guardian |
Posted - 22 Oct 2010 : 15:20:15
Thanks alot! I remember that name, though I didn't think he was the first king, just one of the earlier kings. I'm running a few small sessions set in past, some thirty years before the fall of nethril using 4th ed rules. I couldn't find any references to the founding of mithril hall so i'm placing it sometime years after. The players are going to encounter Gandalug before he becomes first king.
I write abit of sci-fi and the last guardian is the name of the main character in my stories. I play warcraft but have yet to read any of the novels. Still trying to catch up to my pile of FR novels that i have yet to read. =) |
| Zireael |
Posted - 22 Oct 2010 : 08:23:22
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Gandalug - the founder of Mithral Hall. He was captured by the Matron of House Baenre, and released during the Time of Troubles. Bruenor abdicated his reign to allow his ancestor to become King again.
<snip>
And then they swapped places again (was it in Thousand Orcs?) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 22 Oct 2010 : 04:43:34
Gandalug - the founder of Mithral Hall. He was captured by the Matron of House Baenre, and released during the Time of Troubles. Bruenor abdicated his reign to allow his ancestor to become King again.
Aside: Did you get your name from Jeff Grubb's Warcraft novel?
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