| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 11 May 2010 : 14:13:37
Wizbro just sacked Any Collins.....whats the thinking with that one do you think?????? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 25 May 2010 : 17:11:32
I think here both editions are selling quite well. I know many gamers who run 4E and few who still run older editions, but my knowledge is somewhat limited on the large spectrum of this area. |
| Tyranthraxus |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 09:43:50
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yes and no... It means gamers are getting the game they want, regardless of what the official version is. So that's a win. It's a lose for WotC, though, in that every one of those 3.x sales is one they're not making money on, and in particular, it's a sale that isn't 4E.
That is correct.. And here in Greece the stores are selling the 3.x books in Half-price and less ...
The game store I usually go to still sells the 3.x stuff for full price. When 4e came out I hoped they would sell 3.x books for half their price, like they did with 2e books. |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 09:31:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yes and no... It means gamers are getting the game they want, regardless of what the official version is. So that's a win. It's a lose for WotC, though, in that every one of those 3.x sales is one they're not making money on, and in particular, it's a sale that isn't 4E.
That is correct.. And here in Greece the stores are selling the 3.x books in Half-price and less ... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 00:41:21
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One of the gaming stores in this area is run by a guy named Kent. Kent told me that 4E stuff was moving quite well at his store -- but he also told me that people were buying up every bit of 3E material they could get their hands on, and that he was doing a good amount of business by selling used 3E stuff.
Thats an example of Everybody winning!
Yes and no... It means gamers are getting the game they want, regardless of what the official version is. So that's a win. It's a lose for WotC, though, in that every one of those 3.x sales is one they're not making money on, and in particular, it's a sale that isn't 4E. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 23:12:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One of the gaming stores in this area is run by a guy named Kent. Kent told me that 4E stuff was moving quite well at his store -- but he also told me that people were buying up every bit of 3E material they could get their hands on, and that he was doing a good amount of business by selling used 3E stuff.
Thats an example of Everybody winning! |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 18:58:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One of the gaming stores in this area is run by a guy named Kent. Kent told me that 4E stuff was moving quite well at his store -- but he also told me that people were buying up every bit of 3E material they could get their hands on, and that he was doing a good amount of business by selling used 3E stuff.
Here in Greece I asked the president( whom i know personally) of KAISSA GAMES stores which are the only official distributors of Wizards products and he told me that the sale numbers of 4th edition are not going well.. He told me that a lot of the old RPGers shows interest in the FANTASY FLIGHT BOARD GAMES PRODUCTS (DESCENT, CONAN e.t.c) And that wizards,with their moves, has booted their dedicated fans out ....Also i see that also wizards are going to publish board games (look here http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/214420000 and here http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/207790000 ) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 15:43:10
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
However, from what I see in Chicago, the books are not selling well at the local game shops and Borders and Barnes and Nobles have significantly shrunk the area in the store where they sell the books and maintain fewer copies.
I personally dislike 4E, and I am quite happy to think it's not doing all that well. However, as many folks here will note, I'm also one who wants hard facts and counsels having all the information before making a decision.
This is why I am compelled to point out that anecdotal evidence is often not all that accurate. For every report of 4E not moving at gaming stores, there's another one that says they can't keep it on the shelves.
One of the gaming stores in this area is run by a guy named Kent. Kent told me that 4E stuff was moving quite well at his store -- but he also told me that people were buying up every bit of 3E material they could get their hands on, and that he was doing a good amount of business by selling used 3E stuff. |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 15:38:22
sources for which bits Matt? |
| Matt James |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 14:57:51
Sources? |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 10:02:34
It might also be that people are getting DDI subscriptions, so they don't need the rulebooks.
Interesting find... |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 09:21:32
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
It seems to me that 4th edition does not go well for Hasbro...
Does anyone knows how exactly goes the sales of 4th edition core staff???I read that they said that in the 2 others editions they were published a lot of books ,but on 4th edition they have already published, since 07/2008, 35 books....
I wait for the day where they will sale Forgotten realms rights to another gaming company ...
We've not seen any sales figures for 4E, and I don't think we're going to.
I'll admit I've not paid too much attention to 4E, but I don't think they've published 35 books -- unless you include novels and comics.
Read what i have found about the sales of 4th edition :
Ingram Sales Numbers of D&D 4th Edition Books
Real Numbers Analysis and the Book Industry
As I was reviewing the lawsuit information it states that they have sold hundreds of thousand of "Core Books"
If you go to Wizards website and look at their product list almost every "Core" book is included with the exception of Forgotten Realms. I'm thinking they are pulling a fast one on the definition of Core Books not just to mean the 3 Core Books. I've have been trying to find hard sales figures and until now have been unsuccessful. Doing a google search I found out about the Ingram Inventory Automated Checker.
Ingram is a book supplier (one of the largest) that you can obtian sales numbers through. They have an automated system (615) 213-6803 and all you have to do is type in a ISBN number and it will give you the sales numbers for the books they have distributed for Last year and the current year. You can check my numbers if you like. I also didn't check every book but most of them.
I have read on other websites that if you multiply by a factor of 6 these numbers somewhat represent US sales. I don't know if that is true. There are some pay for service firms that will provide hard numbers as well. I don't feel the need to pay for those services.
However, from what I see in Chicago, the books are not selling well at the local game shops and Borders and Barnes and Nobles have significantly shrunk the area in the store where they sell the books and maintain fewer copies.
BTW: Even though the PHB2 is suppoed to be sold out I have found it for sale in dozens of stores with mutliple copies still for sale. In any case these are some REAL hard numbers of sale and I would say they are a bit dissapointing.
Taken as of 4/9/2009
In any case from the system:
The 4th Edition Core Gift Set
YTD: 123 2008: 2,200
The 4th Edition Players Hand Book
YTD: 197 2008: 5,785
The 4th Edition Deluxe Players Handbook
YTD: 1 2008: 25
Totalled: 8,331 copies of the Players Handbook have sold.
If we multiply that by 6 (See Above) that gives us a sales level of 49,986 units.
The Players Handbook II:
YTD: 1,440 2008: N/A
With the Multiplier factor we get: 8,640 units
To be on the best seller list I have also read that you can get on with sales at a minimum level of 5,000 weekly units. The fact that PHB2 is higher rated than the PHB on the New York times bestseller list means nothing. It is all based on how the competeting books are doing. I believe the print run for PHB2 is lower than PHB1.
If you look at the rest of the numbers you will see that their accessory products don't sell that well.
Take it for what it's worth but they are real numbers at least.
4th Edition Core Rulebook Gift Set
YTD: 123 2008: 2,200
Adventurer's Vault
YTD: 116 2008: 1,127
An Adventurer's Guide to Eberron: 0786948558
YTD: 8 2008: 88
D&D Dungeon Tiles VI: Fane of the Forgotten Gods 0786948000
YTD: 52 2008: 252
Draconomicon I:
YTD: 68 2008: 132
DU1 Halls of the Giant Kings Dungeon Tile 0786948736
YTD: 0 2008: 256
DU2 Streets of Shadow Dungeon Tiles 0786949791
YTD: 255 2008: 244
Dungeon Delve 0786951397
YTD: 362 2008: 0
Dungeon Master's Guide 0786948809
YTD: 82 2008: 1,440
Dungeon Master's Screen 0786949279
YTD: 180 2008: 485
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
YTD: 61 2008: 603
Forgotten Realms Player's Guide 0786949295
YTD: 151 2008: 1,666
H1 Keep on the Shadowfell 0786948507
YTD: 120 2008: 828
H2 Thunderspire Labrynth 0786948728
YTD: 11 2008: 326
H3 Pyramid of Shadows 078694935X
YTD: 36 2008: 238
Manual of the Planes
YTD: 309 2008: 519
Monster Manual 0786948523
YTD: 124 2008: 2,237
Open Grave 0786950692
YTD: 124 2008: 2237
P1 King of the Trollhaunt Warrens 0786949287
YTD: 15 2008: 137
P2 Demon Queen's Enclave 0786949775
YTD: 47 2008: 47
P3 Assault on Nightwyrm Fortress 0786950005
YTD: 18 2008: 0
Players Handbook
YTD: 197 2008: 5,785
Wizards Presnts: Worlds and Monsters 0786948027
YTD: 7 2008: 523
Players Handbook 2
YTD: 1,440 2008: N/A
Deluxe Players Handbook 0786950439
YTD: 1 2008: 25
Deluxe DM's Guide 0786950447
YTD: 0 2008: 19
Deluxe Monster Manual 0786950455
YTD: 1 2008: 14
3.5 Players Handbook: 0786928867
YTD: 0 2008: 426
The automated site also supplies expected demand number for the week and sales last week. This is the best you are going to do for Free. It only goes back to 2008. |
| Gambit |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 04:05:25
6E Return of the Attack Matrix  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 03:56:18
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
So 6E would be the Return of the Prestige Class?
Return of the Kit |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 03:38:12
So 6E would be the Return of the Prestige Class? |
| Gambit |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 00:52:02
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Probably gearing up for 5E...
5E: Revenge of the THAC0
or
Dungeons and Dragons Episode 5: The THAC0 Strikes Back |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 23:23:52
Probably gearing up for 5E... |
| Galuf the Dwarf |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 21:13:04
Good to hear Richard Baker's still on board, but yes, firing Andy Collins was a big mistake, IMHO.
I would wonder if the recession of the U.S. and world economy has something to deal with a number of firings and all. Seems like so much is being cut back these days. I'll be lucky if I find a career I love & can make money from after Wal-Mart. 
Then again, as far as WotC "stiffing fans", I have a feeling that could just as well happen, just like you've seen with World of Warcraft subscriptions going into stiff decline. Sadly, all good things must come to an end. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 19:48:56
I hate to say I told you so...
but ya know.
Money is money... |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 19:44:47
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Okay, let me get this straight. They have open positions to fill on the R&D group AND they just laid-off those with years of experience that would be perfect for R&D?
Yep, that's corporate logic.
"Hey, if we fire these four people, we can hire 4 more at half-price and it benefits the bottom line!"
"What about the product quality?"
"Huh? I don't understand what this has to do with that."
My feelings exactly. But they keep getting new players who love their new game with an old name. I just wonder what will happen when they stiff the generation that they are currently catering to with yet another new edition. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 16:41:46
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
This is interesting, Chris Perkins has blogged about the new D&D RD teams on the wizards forums. The D&D RPG group currently has 13 employees some of them old (Richard Baker) and some new (Cal Moore). Plus the team has some open positions to fill which they will announce in the near future.
Okay, let me get this straight. They have open positions to fill on the R&D group AND they just laid-off those with years of experience that would be perfect for R&D?
Yep, that's corporate logic.
"Hey, if we fire these four people, we can hire 4 more at half-price and it benefits the bottom line!"
"What about the product quality?"
"Huh? I don't understand what this has to do with that." |
| Bakra |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 14:05:56
This is interesting, Chris Perkins has blogged about the new D&D RD teams on the wizards forums. The D&D RPG group currently has 13 employees some of them old (Richard Baker) and some new (Cal Moore). Plus the team has some open positions to fill which they will announce in the near future. |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 22:05:05
quote:Originally posted by Darkmeer
Heck the 4e FRCG that I had considered purchasing has the first 50 pages BLANK when I went to purchase it. Yes, BLANK, no text, no maps, not pretty pictures, nothing. I took it to the counter, said they had a bad book, showed them why, and left the book for another purchase.
/d
This fact shows how amateurs are the publisher's of 4th edition...
Wooly look here to see all the published books ONLY for accessories of the core d&d (without FRCS, dark sun e.t.c and without novels):
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Catalog.aspx?page=0&category=accessories&subcategory=dnd |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 05:53:28
quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Heck the 4e FRCG that I had considered purchasing has the first 50 pages BLANK when I went to purchase it. Yes, BLANK, no text, no maps, not pretty pictures, nothing.
Urgh
*rolls will save* 17
Phew!  |
| Darkmeer |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 03:14:20
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My bad, I didn't realized they'd put out so much stuff in such a small amount of time. I guess the lessons of 2E and 3E, about flooding the market, still haven't been learned.
::tangent::
Mind you I don't follow the line as closely, but part of what White Wolf did initially with their New World of Darkness line was to not flood the market like they had been doing.
::/tangent::
I don't really notice how many books are out, I notice the people complaining about errata in the printed materials (which probably disappears in the DDI), so I've little reason to look at it. Heck the 4e FRCG that I had considered purchasing has the first 50 pages BLANK when I went to purchase it. Yes, BLANK, no text, no maps, not pretty pictures, nothing. I took it to the counter, said they had a bad book, showed them why, and left the book for another purchase.
/d |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 03:06:36
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My bad, I didn't realized they'd put out so much stuff in such a small amount of time. I guess the lessons of 2E and 3E, about flooding the market, still haven't been learned.
Thats one of the reasons I quit buying all of the books.
I can just look at the DDI Rules Compendium and it's all there.
PHB3 was added to it at least 2 months before the book was released.
I do plan on getting the Dark Sun stuff in August. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 00:46:20
My bad, I didn't realized they'd put out so much stuff in such a small amount of time. I guess the lessons of 2E and 3E, about flooding the market, still haven't been learned. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 22:23:23
I probably missed a few also... |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 22:21:34
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
WotC has published alot of books for 4E.
PHB 1,2,3
DMG 1,2
MM 1,2, with 3 on the way.
Martial Power, Arcane Power, Primal Power, Divine Power.
Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead.
Dungeon Delve.
Draconomicon 1,2
The 3 Manual of the Planes.
The 2 Adventure's Vaults
The Underdark Book.
Revenge of the Giants Adventure.
12 H1 to E3 adventures.
The 3 Realms books and adventure.
The 3 Eberron Books and adventure.
Thats quite a bit...
Most of the crunch you get with a DDI Subscription, via Character Builder, and Monster Builder on DDI.
So you have people not buying the Books and just spendind $70 a year for everything via DDI.
That'd be 41 by my count. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 22:12:40
WotC has published alot of books for 4E.
PHB 1,2,3
DMG 1,2
MM 1,2, with 3 on the way.
Martial Power, Arcane Power, Primal Power, Divine Power.
Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead.
Dungeon Delve.
Draconomicon 1,2
The 3 Manual of the Planes.
The 2 Adventure's Vaults
The Underdark Book.
Revenge of the Giants Adventure.
12 H1 to E3 adventures.
The 3 Realms books and adventure.
The 3 Eberron Books and adventure.
Thats quite a bit...
Most of the crunch you get with a DDI Subscription, via Character Builder, and Monster Builder on DDI.
So you have people not buying the Books and just spendind $70 a year for everything via DDI. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 20:51:04
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
It seems to me that 4th edition does not go well for Hasbro...
Does anyone knows how exactly goes the sales of 4th edition core staff???I read that they said that in the 2 others editions they were published a lot of books ,but on 4th edition they have already published, since 07/2008, 35 books....
I wait for the day where they will sale Forgotten realms rights to another gaming company ...
We've not seen any sales figures for 4E, and I don't think we're going to.
I'll admit I've not paid too much attention to 4E, but I don't think they've published 35 books -- unless you include novels and comics. |
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