| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dennis |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 19:36:25
i have been a fan of netheril ever since reading the nethril trilogy...and it's good that a "portion" of that empire still survives. it would have been ridiculous to totally wipe out the most powerful empire in faerun. anyway, after the shadovar's major role in the twilight war trilogy, what's next? i read somewhere that the shadovar, after learning that zhentil keep connived with the phaerimm to destroy them, totally eliminated zhentil keep. is there a novel where this happens? also, will the shadovar be playing a major role in paul kemp's cycle of the night trilogy?
i hope someone can enlighten me...greetings to all from the philippines!!!
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 May 2010 : 00:10:59
Warning, a little SPOILER BELOW:
Richard briefly mentions Netherese in his recent book, The Captive Flame...Some events even occur in Shadowfell, which is, to some extent, a Shadovar realm (it's their goddess's domain, so it must be theirs too by relation)...I wonder if the Shadovar (or their agents) will play a role (however wee) in the next two books?...
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| The Sage |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 07:06:49
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And the Shades destroyed Zhentil Keep, which expresses a little bit more than a casual disinterest.
Speaking of, I wonder what happened to Manshoon when the Shadovar attacked? Did he flee or die (and live again, through his seemingly endless supply of clones) like the realms' ultimate "cockroach"?
Only the Manshoon clone, as Orbakh the Night King, remains in the 4e Realms. The clone with Halaster was destroyed during the Spellplague, and the third remaining clone was killed during the Netherese assault on Zhentil Keep. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:57:06
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And the Shades destroyed Zhentil Keep, which expresses a little bit more than a casual disinterest.
Speaking of, I wonder what happened to Manshoon when the Shadovar attacked? Did he flee or die (and live again, through his seemingly endless supply of clones) like the realms' ultimate "cockroach"? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:31:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And the Shades destroyed Zhentil Keep, which expresses a little bit more than a casual disinterest.
And I suspect the Zhentarim infiltration of the Bedine resistance tribes is partly geared toward them also forging some kind of "revenge" against the Shadovar. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:26:37
And the Shades destroyed Zhentil Keep, which expresses a little bit more than a casual disinterest. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:28:46
I see. Thanks, Sage. That clarifies things.  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:22:23
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Another thing in the same article in wikia caught my attention:
"The returned masters of Anauroch, the ancient Netherese wizards of Thultanthar, warped and twisted by their long exile in the Demiplane of Shadow, are determined to not be denied what they consider their birth-right, longing to restore the barren wasteland that is now Anauroch to the once fertile land that was the Empire of Magic. The Shadovar have a regimented society, ruled by The Most High and his Princes of Shade, all working in unison, toughened by centuries of hardship in the Shadow, to accomplish their common goal. So far they have all but ignored the Bedine and Zhentarim, considering them beneath their notice."
The last part sounds contradictory to the nature of the Shadovar, who are selfish and megalomaniac. How could they deign to ignore the very presence of their enemies in their own land? Is the said article part of canon, or a conglomeration of writings from a mixture of non-FR and legit FR writers?
Again, from the source I noted above:-
quote:
Decades ago, the Netherese subjugated the nomads of Anauroch and many of the savage humanoid tribes inhabiting the desert.
Sounds to me like the Bedine are largely now under the thumb of the Shadovar. And the FRCG maintains that trend, with reference to Bedine resistance groups and such, working against Netherese interests. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:16:37
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
Yes! Please do! And I'll keep working on my sarrukh plots! 
Which reminds me... I still owe you a PM! 
quote:
Now, back to the Shadovar... what do we know about the state of Anauroch in 4E? The 4E FRCG says only that Netheril has been "partially restored" from the desert... and it's unclear from the map which part that is... and I won't comment on the map itself here. Yes, I finally bought the FRCG; there are things about it that I wanted to tinker with, and I found a used copy in excellent shape. So... is Anauroch in the Year of the Ageless One all arid semi-desert, or partially desert, partially verdant, or something in between? I'm looking at restoring Netheril in my Realms as well, but probably not by that name. 
Anauroch has yet to receive much attention in the DDI articles. I recall a few mentions in Brian's "Sharn" article, but they were mostly references to the past desertification of the region.
Is the article on Anauroch in wikia wholly true? It says there: "1479 DR: The end of Anauroch is complete and only occasional dustbowls remain as a reminder of the once great desert." So technically there is NO MORE Anauroch? For how could you call "occasional dustbowls" a desert?
Hmmm. From the "Year of the Ageless One" source on the Wizards website:-
quote:
The reborn Empire of Netheril now lies in the basin that once held the desert Anauroch. The new Netheril claims all of the lands that ancient Netheril once occupied, and seeks to dominate Faerûn just as ancient Netheril did twenty centuries ago. Much of Anauroch’s vast basin is still desolate wasteland, but the lords of Netheril have spent decades weaving mighty spells to summon water to the parched lands and fill the empty skies with rain. Slowly but surely, grassland grows over the dunes, and young forests cover the stony barrens.
[Source:- http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drfe/20080111a] |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 03:33:37
Another thing in the same article in wikia caught my attention:
"The returned masters of Anauroch, the ancient Netherese wizards of Thultanthar, warped and twisted by their long exile in the Demiplane of Shadow, are determined to not be denied what they consider their birth-right, longing to restore the barren wasteland that is now Anauroch to the once fertile land that was the Empire of Magic. The Shadovar have a regimented society, ruled by The Most High and his Princes of Shade, all working in unison, toughened by centuries of hardship in the Shadow, to accomplish their common goal. So far they have all but ignored the Bedine and Zhentarim, considering them beneath their notice."
The last part sounds contradictory to the nature of the Shadovar, who are selfish and megalomaniac. How could they deign to ignore the very presence of their enemies in their own land? Is the said article part of canon, or a conglomeration of writings from a mixture of non-FR and legit FR writers?
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| Dennis |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 03:25:51
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
Yes! Please do! And I'll keep working on my sarrukh plots!
Which reminds me... I still owe you a PM!
quote:
Now, back to the Shadovar... what do we know about the state of Anauroch in 4E? The 4E FRCG says only that Netheril has been "partially restored" from the desert... and it's unclear from the map which part that is... and I won't comment on the map itself here. Yes, I finally bought the FRCG; there are things about it that I wanted to tinker with, and I found a used copy in excellent shape. So... is Anauroch in the Year of the Ageless One all arid semi-desert, or partially desert, partially verdant, or something in between? I'm looking at restoring Netheril in my Realms as well, but probably not by that name.
Anauroch has yet to receive much attention in the DDI articles. I recall a few mentions in Brian's "Sharn" article, but they were mostly references to the past desertification of the region.
Is the article on Anauroch in wikia wholly true? It says there: "1479 DR: The end of Anauroch is complete and only occasional dustbowls remain as a reminder of the once great desert." So technically there is NO MORE Anauroch? For how could you call "occasional dustbowls" a desert? |
| Elfinblade |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 01:20:25
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
I would be very interested in this. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 01:06:10
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
Yes! Please do! And I'll keep working on my sarrukh plots!
Which reminds me... I still owe you a PM!
quote:
Now, back to the Shadovar... what do we know about the state of Anauroch in 4E? The 4E FRCG says only that Netheril has been "partially restored" from the desert... and it's unclear from the map which part that is... and I won't comment on the map itself here. Yes, I finally bought the FRCG; there are things about it that I wanted to tinker with, and I found a used copy in excellent shape. So... is Anauroch in the Year of the Ageless One all arid semi-desert, or partially desert, partially verdant, or something in between? I'm looking at restoring Netheril in my Realms as well, but probably not by that name.
Anauroch has yet to receive much attention in the DDI articles. I recall a few mentions in Brian's "Sharn" article, but they were mostly references to the past desertification of the region. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 00:27:23
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
Yes! Please do! And I'll keep working on my sarrukh plots!
On a side note: which early maps caused the addition of the sarrukh changing the direction of the Narrow Sea and inundating the phaerimm? I know that in an earlier map, the sea ran north-south, and in a later map, it ran east-west, thanks to a cartographical error, and this was explained by a great magical cataclysm in the sarrukh-phaerimm conflict... but I don't recall *which* maps those were. Obviously, they must both have been published, or the cataclysm wouldn't have been necessary. The only pre-Anauroch maps I'm aware of are the ones in the GHotR (p 32 and pp 44-45, both of which show the east-west Narrow Sea) and the 2E Arcane Age: Netheril boxed set (which I don't have access to atm), but they don't go back early enough.
Now, back to the Shadovar... what do we know about the state of Anauroch in 4E? The 4E FRCG says only that Netheril has been "partially restored" from the desert... and it's unclear from the map which part that is... and I won't comment on the map itself here. Yes, I finally bought the FRCG; there are things about it that I wanted to tinker with, and I found a used copy in excellent shape. So... is Anauroch in the Year of the Ageless One all arid semi-desert, or partially desert, partially verdant, or something in between? I'm looking at restoring Netheril in my Realms as well, but probably not by that name. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 12:04:41
Now that I am reading Cloak of Shadows, I am interested in the Shadow Masters. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:56:55
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion. |
| Elfinblade |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:56:29
And Halaster, and the return of Bane, and etc etc  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:52:54
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
It is indeed possible. But WotC already has shown a willingness to ignore previous potential plot developments like this one, so I'm really not hopeful. And I for one was tired of the Shades by the end of 3E -- but they and Shar became even more prominent in 4E.
Kinda like how Wizards has ignored the Manshoon Wars hook at the start of 3E.
And the Harper Schism. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:27:42
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
It is indeed possible. But WotC already has shown a willingness to ignore previous potential plot developments like this one, so I'm really not hopeful. And I for one was tired of the Shades by the end of 3E -- but they and Shar became even more prominent in 4E.
Kinda like how Wizards has ignored the Manshoon Wars hook at the start of 3E. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:10:30
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
It is indeed possible. But WotC already has shown a willingness to ignore previous potential plot developments like this one, so I'm really not hopeful. And I for one was tired of the Shades by the end of 3E -- but they and Shar became even more prominent in 4E. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:19:13
quote:
Originally posted by Elfinblade
I don't even use the Shadovar in my own campaigns 
Must be one of those tired-of-the-Shadovar people. |
| Elfinblade |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:16:48
I don't even use the Shadovar in my own campaigns |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 09:53:39
And oh please, no more 4E RSE. Have we had enough RSE? Selunnara can still have a grand return without resorting to a RSE! |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 07:27:44
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
You know whats sad, is that this is a hook WotC will probably never use.
Then again it could be a good thing now that I think about it. 
Well, the possibility of Sel�nnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
It is a great idea for a hook, and yet another great idea that WotC just tossed aside. Edition changes are bad on great ideas from earlier editions. 
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
I am tired of the Shades myself.
Now when Paul writes about them it's kool.
Maybe Selunnara will get the Novel treatment.
Maybe a 4E RSE with them in it.
Or they could be holding it in reserve for 5E.
I agree that Paul really makes them quite interesting.
But I hope WotC is not holding Selunnara in reserve for 5E. God, that's years from now...I hope they'll use them in 4E. And if they do, I would expect the Selunnara to make a GRAND RETURN, grander than the Shadovar's in the Archwizards Trilogy.
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| Brimstone |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 07:18:26
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
You know whats sad, is that this is a hook WotC will probably never use.
Then again it could be a good thing now that I think about it.
Well, the possibility of Sel�nnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
It is a great idea for a hook, and yet another great idea that WotC just tossed aside. Edition changes are bad on great ideas from earlier editions.
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
I am tired of the Shades myself.
Now when Paul writes about them it's kool.
Maybe Selunnara will get the Novel treatment.
Maybe a 4E RSE with them in it.
Or they could be holding it in reserve for 5E. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 05:57:07
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
You know whats sad, is that this is a hook WotC will probably never use.
Then again it could be a good thing now that I think about it.
Well, the possibility of Sel�nnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
It is a great idea for a hook, and yet another great idea that WotC just tossed aside. Edition changes are bad on great ideas from earlier editions.
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
|
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 04:20:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Hi Sage!
Should Selunnara decide to come out from their seclusion for whatever important purpose, do you think Shade will see them as a potential threat? I don't know how much powerful Selunnara had turned out to be, but do they stand a chance against Shade, notwithstanding that Rivalen is now a demigod?
Shade would indeed see Sel�nnara as a threat. Not only as a military/political threat, but also as a moral one -- because Sel�nnara has as much claim to the legacy of Netheril as Shade does. It'd be difficult for one group to claim their actions are justified since they're the true heirs of Netheril, when another group with an equally strong claim acts in direct opposition to them.
It was the Shadovar who literally brought Netheril back from the ashes...It was through their effort and ruthless machination that heralded the rebirth of new Netheril...Had Selunnara been eager to claim the Netheril legacy, they should have acted first, not now that Shadovar seemed to have set almost all things "right" for the empire. But then again, you do have a point. They are both Neths, and have the same right to the empire. Who knows, Selunnara had also planned and arranged for Netheril's rebirth but were just engaged in more pressing matters (at which point Shade returned from the Plane of Shadow)that when they thought the time was right to do it, the Shadovar had already accomplished it.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 15:57:18
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Or would they use the usual 'Jedi Mind Trick': It's always been this way. What you read in LEoF isn't real.
They've been using that particular trick since 3E. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 07:43:51
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, the possibility of Selûnnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
Well, it's always a possibility. After all, the FRCG was meant only as an introduction to the 4e Realms. With future DDI articles meant to expand and explore upon what wasn't included.
While I suspect Wooly's reading of the situation might have a grain of greater truth to it, I also believe that it's still possible for mention of future developments on or about Selûnnara to pop up at some point.
That would be nice.
Considering that Aasimar's are now Deva's that might cause some Lore quandries.
Or would they use the usual 'Jedi Mind Trick': It's always been this way. What you read in LEoF isn't real.
You can move along now... |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 03:58:30
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
The Shades beat ZK down in 1383. According to BRJ.
Shade and Selunarra meeting probably would lead to them throwing down.
Where does this material come from? It's not in GHoTR...
It's from his 'unofficial' timeline last year. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 01:27:28
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, the possibility of Selûnnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
Well, it's always a possibility. After all, the FRCG was meant only as an introduction to the 4e Realms. With future DDI articles meant to expand and explore upon what wasn't included.
While I suspect Wooly's reading of the situation might have a grain of greater truth to it, I also believe that it's still possible for mention of future developments on or about Selûnnara to pop up at some point.
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