| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 13:47:38
Good afternoon, sages!
Once again, I've been pondering matters of Faerun when I;ve got better things to be doing. This time it's been concerning the elimination of setting characters by the Spellplague and 100 years since the last edition, and how that might be worked around.
I've not read many Realms novels, so the number of characters I'm familiar with is limited. For those I do know of and might want to use in games, my methods have ranged from 'reincarnating' the character concept in a descendant to planar travel and last minute divine intervention (e.g. the seven sisters being preserved by Mystra's dying breath).
Anyone else come up with any novel ways of returning previous edition characters to the fold?
PS: call me a whinging bastard, but I'd rather not have to read 'reset to edition X' or 'burn the books!' too many times.  |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Dec 2009 : 16:06:21
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I didn't mean they should have made them optimized, I just don't think someone with four classes is as powerful as someone with one class for the purposes of determining a challenge.
I haven't read anything about the Seven Sisters for a long time, but I thought part of the point was like a...back up "in case I die" plan? Sooo confused. Am I misremembering?
The basic nature and purpose of the Chosen is set out in the sources that introduced the concept in print in 1995, the "Shadow of the Avatar" trilogy and The Seven Sisters. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Dec 2009 : 15:02:46
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I didn't mean they should have made them optimized, I just don't think someone with four classes is as powerful as someone with one class for the purposes of determining a challenge.
I haven't read anything about the Seven Sisters for a long time, but I thought part of the point was like a...back up "in case I die" plan? Sooo confused. Am I misremembering?
That is part of what the Chosen are for... It's not their entire purpose, but it is part of it. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 20 Dec 2009 : 09:51:58
Hedgehog: Yeah, there's no need for optimisation IMHO, I was just commenting on possible reasons for the spread of classes NPCs seem to have. They're far more interesting that way. I'm not aware of any such backup plan in cannon, though I have only read a very few Realms novels.
Urza: Firstly 'whanky' is the best Freudian typo I've ever seen. Secondly, the idea that Elminster is the new god of magic but either doesn't know it or is in denial is brilliant. Magic is already 'fixed' insofar as people can cast spells, etc, of vaguely the same power level as before with vaguely the same effort and risk, or do you meen fixing as in reinstating the weave and purging spellplague effects?
Hamfisted though their introduction may have been, I still reckon that the spellplague and it's various effects (plaguewraught lands, plaguechanged critters, earthmotes, etc) can be good, wholesome fun for friends and family. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 20 Dec 2009 : 09:33:47
I didn't mean they should have made them optimized, I just don't think someone with four classes is as powerful as someone with one class for the purposes of determining a challenge.
I haven't read anything about the Seven Sisters for a long time, but I thought part of the point was like a...back up "in case I die" plan? Sooo confused. Am I misremembering? |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 20 Dec 2009 : 02:35:18
Cleric Generic, that my theory about Elminster actually. I think he became the God of Magic and doesn't want it. Either magic has fixed itself or the caster of faerun have learned how to use it in it's still whanky state. Once he takes up his responsibility the plagued areas would go away. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 16:25:39
Exactly!
Mystra's already got her head blown off on two separate occasions prior to the spellplague, only to retur shortly thereafter (via a new mortal vessel, as I recall). You could even have the Seven Sisters and whatever other Chosen she's got wafting about collectively becoming the new Mystra; still remaining separate individuals, etc, but their collective power and shards of the old goddess constitute the new one. |
| froglegg |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 15:47:11
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Would Mystra's death remove the divine power she invested in her chosen necessarily? Perhaps that divine power will remain in them forever and they'll remain "Chosen" forever even though their deity is dead.
When Mystra 1.0 died, her essence still remained in her Chosen. Of course, the world didn't blow up then, either. 
Thats the sort ofthing I was thinking when I had the Chosen retain the last spark of Mystra's divinity. Basically, I've answered that question as yes, they do remain as Chosen after Mystras death because whats left of Mystra is within each of them. One could even use this as an excuse to beef up their power suite if so desired. 
Or to bring her back! 
John |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 11:43:03
Indeed, most of them are pretty uber to begin with, and the Chosen of Mystra doesn't exactly water them down. And yes, the hodge podge of classes alot of the NPC write ups featured I think was not optimised, rather more to resemble the career said NPC has lives up to that point. 'Realistically', most poeple that haven't lived a completely singular and obsessed life would have levels of this and that all over the place, I imagine. :)
But I'm getting OT... |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 07:09:15
The CR is higher because the Chosen of Mystra template raises it. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 06:28:41
They seemed pretty powerful already. Although I don't think someone with four classes is as powerful as the CR they give them... level 8 bard level 12 sorceror is not as powerful as a level 20 bard or level 20 sorceror is it??? |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 17 Dec 2009 : 09:54:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Would Mystra's death remove the divine power she invested in her chosen necessarily? Perhaps that divine power will remain in them forever and they'll remain "Chosen" forever even though their deity is dead.
When Mystra 1.0 died, her essence still remained in her Chosen. Of course, the world didn't blow up then, either.
Thats the sort ofthing I was thinking when I had the Chosen retain the last spark of Mystra's divinity. Basically, I've answered that question as yes, they do remain as Chosen after Mystras death because whats left of Mystra is within each of them. One could even use this as an excuse to beef up their power suite if so desired.
|
| Kyrene |
Posted - 17 Dec 2009 : 07:17:22
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Also, Artemis is a Shade now? A) that's awesome, B) how?
Unless they overruled this in 4e, in which case I would not know, he was not turned into a shade, he just absorbed a bit of a shade's essence through his dagger. And other than a slightly different skin tone, how this has effected him biologically/metaphysically is yet to be determined. As I said, they may have declared how this actually effected him in 4e, but since I have had nothing to do with the 4e Realms, I would not know if they did.
To elaborate a little (some spoilers, highlight to read):
In the short story "That Curious Sword" in the Realms of Shadow anthology, he killed a Shadovar messenger sent to retrieve Charon's Claw with his vampiric dagger, and absorbed some of the shade's life-force. Among other side-effects of this, he gained some shade characteristics. This occured between book I and II of The Sellswords, and in both The Promise of the Witch-King and Road of the Patriarch I can recall reading about his slightly darker skin and hints about his aging having slowed down a lot, and that perhaps he had even been rejuvenated to some extent. The ending of Road of the Patriarch gave me the impression that we would not be seeing Artemis again, as he departs for Calimport, cutting his ties with Jarlaxle. This could be the reason we have not seen anything about him in 4E Realms. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 23:51:10
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Would Mystra's death remove the divine power she invested in her chosen necessarily? Perhaps that divine power will remain in them forever and they'll remain "Chosen" forever even though their deity is dead.
When Mystra 1.0 died, her essence still remained in her Chosen. Of course, the world didn't blow up then, either. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 22:04:58
Wish or miracle spell granting immunity to aging. =P
An epic spell of some sort that hasn't been researched yet... or a True ressurection spell combined with a miracle spell if they died of old age. (Miracle maybe bypassing the...can't ressurect someone who died of old age bit...)
Would Mystra's death remove the divine power she invested in her chosen necessarily? Perhaps that divine power will remain in them forever and they'll remain "Chosen" forever even though their deity is dead. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 21:19:46
AFAIK he's not mentioned in either of the 4e setting books, let alone statted. It is possible that he's been written up somewhere on the DDI like Drizzt, but I probably would have heard of it if they had. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 20:41:22
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Also, Artemis is a Shade now? A) that's awesome, B) how?
Unless they overruled this in 4e, in which case I would not know, he was not turned into a shade, he just absorbed a bit of a shade's essence through his dagger. And other than a slightly different skin tone, how this has effected him biologically/metaphysically is yet to be determined. As I said, they may have declared how this actually effected him in 4e, but since I have had nothing to do with the 4e Realms, I would not know if they did. |
| Artemel |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 19:01:13
Also, for some less active fun... petrify someone. There is no note about time frame on Stone to Flesh, so... ~evil grin~ |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 08:50:00
hmmm, I'm diggin' the Spellplague itself being a source of longevity / immortality, actually. Good idea.
I don't have any specific examples of how it might be done because the party I'm DMing hasn't gotten far beyond the pee-hole-in-the-snow they started in. The nearest majot NPC they're liable to bump into is Lady Alustriel in Silverymoon who, along with the rest of the seven sisters (she's one of the sisters, right?) will have been preserved by Mystra's dying breath, probably disappearing into some sort of metaphysical cocoon as they absorb the last spark of her divinity.
Other less likely events include crossing paths with a somewhat matured Drizzt, and I rather like the idea of a greatly aged Wulfgar; still strong and tough, but aged beyond the normal human limits to endure.
Also, Artemis is a Shade now? A) that's awesome, B) how? |
| Thauramarth |
Posted - 16 Dec 2009 : 06:42:09
I cannot say that I personally have come up with that many ways to "carry NPCs over" to 4th, as I am not playing in 4th Ed, but there have been many instances in pre-Spellplague cannon, where
characters (like Elminster, Khelben, some of the Seven Sisters, and probably others) have been "gone" for some time, and were actually thought to be dead.
Elminster was stuck in stasis for a considerable time, I believe, just prior to The Temptation of Elminster). Same thing for Halaster.
The Seven Sisters and Khelben have adopted alternate identities in the past, and have even faked the deaths of some of their alternative identities. Hell, to most of the world, Khelben Arunsun "the Elder" is dead, and the Khelben of 1st-3rd Edition was his own grandson. Manshoon has been declared (or hoped, at least) dead too many times to count. He always cam back quickly, because he had a criminal network to run, but who's to say that he did not prefer to drop out of sight after the Spellplague?
Larloch has spent a good dozen of centuries without most people even being aware that he (still) existed. To a lesser extent, the Realms' iconic characters might be well known to players, readers, and DMs, but in the Realms, there's a good chance that the overwhelming majority of NPCs (the "common folk" if you want) have never heard of any of these worthies, so one of them might come and set up shop in their village and nobody would be any the wiser.
Admittedly, all of the above merely gets around the reported death of some of the 1st-3rd Ed NPCs, but those methods do not all work for long-lived NPCs. Human life-span NPCs is a different issue altogether.
Some of them might have had a stash of Potions of Longevity or Elixirs of Youth, but not all of them (that might be stretching it a little bit).
In other cases, stasis is a possibility, or (as you say) planar travel (time in the Planes can pass differently). A variant on this could be "stuck in a timewarp caused by the Spellplague" (same as stasis, really).
Another variant on stasis - in the Drizzt series, Gandalug Battlehammer has been imprisoned by magic for a couple of hundreds of years, and when his prison broke and he was released, he had not really aged a day since his was imprisoned.
Transformation is another option - Artemis Entreri became a shade. Some NPCs might be transformed. Transformation to undead status is an option for many of the baddies, and for some of the good guys. Also in this register - one or two might have been "cursed/blessed" with longevity or immortality as a result of the Spellplague, perhaps along the lines of the "Highlander" franchise - the Spellplague has caused a few (or many) PCs to become immortals in the Highlander style. In fact, even one of the PCs could become one of these immortals, and hell, they might even be out for each others' heads (with the ultimate prize at the end being... restoration of Mystra, perhaps, who spread her essence across many mortals, who will look to off each other, similar to clones, with each winner absorbing the essence stored in others, until, when the last two face off, there would be a new Deity of Magic).
Just a couple of thoughts there, then. And not one instance of "Burn 'em" or "Reset! Reset! Reset!" |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 15 Dec 2009 : 21:58:43
You can do what they did with Scotty and Kirk in Star Trek (to get them to meet/live in The Next Generation era).. temporal stasis. |
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