| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| SeeDiGi |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 16:15:49
I remember reading it online somewhere (possibly a buried wizards article on their website that is hard to find) an article/short story about snow elves? Does anyone remember this and have the url link? |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Dec 2014 : 13:36:56
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Also, it seems that in the novels Malar Umberlee and Auril were allkready implied to be multispheric, as they were part of the Anti-Seldarine. It was suggested allready by you, and others Markustay, that the Deities of Fury are fallen/corrupted fey deities, so maybe Auril was the original supreme patron of Snow Elves, and Malar could be the god of the Rockseer Elves.
That was all part of the theory (by many of us, and first started back in the Elven Netbook project on the WotC boards) that some of these primal/fey powers were once the Yuir Totems. It works well, and the newer info about Auril actually shoe-horns nicely with it.
Not really seeing Malar and Rockseer. Maybe some other 'rocky' fey/primal power? Perhaps Ogrémoch? Not really seeing him connected to fey, but then again, we are talking about some 30,000+ years of intervening history.
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Now I read again about the Rockseer Elves, their ancestors fell out of grace for not taking side in a great war between Lolth and Corellon. So maybe they were bitter on Lolth, Corellon and all other kinds of elves, for losing their patron(Malar), and because of that ignored/were neutral during the Crown Wars?
Which is why I thought connecting the whole thing to the Crown Wars was absolutely perfect. Miyeritar was composed of two types of Sylvan Elves - Green and 'Dark' (also green, but from the south; with the 4e lore, all considered simply 'Elves' now). The Dark were cursed by Corellon and driven underground, but what of their allies? They received no such curse, but their homeland was 'blasted' by the Vyshaantar, so some may have fled below ground (and the High Moor is the PERFECT environment for them, with little of its own lore in that regard). Along with the map (which fits very well with FR), the lore syncs-up quite nicely.
In the novel Blackstaff we see that some may have become Sharn... but to be honest, I could never really quite make heads-or-tails out of that part of the book. It was a great read, but there was so much going on in the end there that I felt a bit lost. 
It would be quite easy for someone to take Night Below and re-work it for 5e FR, and even tie the Sharn to it all, using the 'magical chaos' of the Moor itself. There's an entire fascinating campaign waiting to happen in that region (there are several other sites on/in the moor, as well as traces of dwarven, gnome, scaleykind, and human civilizations). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 12 Dec 2014 : 00:47:21
actually, given Fenmarel Mestarine's history and Tarsellis' history... I half wonder if they aren't the same deity. Both are patrons of groups of outsider elves. Both had a fling with a dark goddess (Fenmarel's was with Lolth, and Tarsellis' was with Megwandir... which is an alias of Lolth). Both are for outcast groups of elves, etc.... Just he's probably called Tarsellis on Oerth and Fenmarel in the realms.
Also, this is from Dragon #236, stating that snow elves are likely in the realms in the Spine of the World and the High Ice region of Anauroch.
Tarsellis is the patron god of those known as snow elves, who mainly inhabit the Crystalmist mountains of
Oerth. (Rumor has it that snow elves also exist on the far reaches of the Spine of the World or even the High Ice portion of Anauroch in Faerūn, though this is unproven.) |
| Baltas |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 18:37:11
Ok, so maybe Malar's fey or elves never arrived on Toril, or went extinct. Although, alternately, all of the World Tree gods, including Rillifane are connected, so maybe they have a connection with the Great Hunter archetype entities, like Herne and Malar? The Great Hunter and orld Tree gods, definitely have a connection in reall world mythology. Maybe Malar was one of the gods/protectors/patrons of Lythari, but lost that function, when he was corrupted by Auril? And he originaly was subordinate to Rillifane?
Then again, those are just my crazy musings  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 17:48:42
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Well I paired Malar with the Rockseer elves, as they both were the odd ones out,. Among the Elf "oucasts":
- The Snow Elves have Auril
- Marel have Umberlee
- Drow of course, have Lolth and Vhaeraun
Not a very good reason, but still one.
Although now I think that Malar would fit better with Lythari, but there ae majo diffrences in characters between the god, and this kind of Elves. Maybe Malar stopped being the Lythari's patron so long ago, that the Lythari don't remember, asnd Malar doesn't care, and focused on evil lycanthropes...
The lythari favor Rillifane, and there is some (highly) circumstantial evidence that they were originally created by him. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 17:11:44
Well I paired Malar with the Rockseer elves, as they both were the odd ones out,. Among the Elf "oucasts":
- The Snow Elves have Auril
- Marel have Umberlee
- Drow of course, have Lolth and Vhaeraun
Not a very good reason, but still one.
Although now I think that Malar would fit better with Lythari, but there ae majo diffrences in characters between the god, and this kind of Elves. Maybe Malar stopped being the Lythari's patron so long ago, that the Lythari don't remember, asnd Malar doesn't care, and focused on evil lycanthropes... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 16:57:43
It's been a while since I read The Night Below, but from what I recall of it, I don't see anything to connect the Rockseer elves to Malar. I don't recall anything about their culture suggesting a connection to him, and I also don't see Malar being all that enthusiastic about the Underdark. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 16:36:51
Good idea Markustay, and I also though of, but wanted to capitalize the relationship between Tarsellis and Lolth. And import some stuff from The Dark Eye/Das Schwarze Auge to my Faerun
Rellavar Danuvien is another god of Snow Elves is said to be the Frost Sprite King, and Auril/Aurilandur is the Frost Sprite Queen, so maybe Rellavar was originaly Auril's consort?
Also, it seems that in the novels Malar Umberlee and Auril were allkready implied to be multispheric, as they were part of the Anti-Seldarine. It was suggested allready by you, and others Markustay, that the Deities of Fury are fallen/corrupted fey deities, so maybe Auril was the original supreme patron of Snow Elves, and Malar could be the god of the Rockseer Elves. This could be now the cause, of Rockseer Elves are outcasts, as their sole patron has completely fallen out of grace? Marels could be Sea Elves who worshipped Umberlee, since the very begining. It's possible she was maybe even Deep Sashelas' first wife, before Trishina.
[EDIT]
Now I read again about the Rockseer Elves, their ancestors fell out of grace for not taking side in a great war between Lolth and Corellon. So maybe they were bitter on Lolth, Corellon and all other kinds of elves, for losing their patron(Malar), and because of that ignored/were neutral during the Crown Wars? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 13:54:05
Considering that we now know Auril is the Queen of Air & Darkness (which I am not entirely happy with, but it is what it is), I would link them to her. In fact, IIRC, she is even mentioned in the Snow Elves article.
On the other hand, at the time that article was written, the assumption was made that snow elves were now semi-canonical in The Realms because she is mentioned, but the newer 4e lore actually changes that assumption: The QoA&D is multispheric, and therefor the mention of Auril doesn't necessarily mean 'in the Realms' anymore. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 10:50:24
On the Snow Elves, they have an interesing parallel with Ice Elves of The Dark Eye/Das Schwarze Auge. Tarsellis Meunniduin was seduced by Lolth, and somewhat fell under her infuence, but didn't really never fall, and now hates the spider goddess. Likewise, the Ice Elves are descended from High Elves who followed Pardona(something of a local analogue of Lolth), but abandoned her, when they started to see her true collors. This saved them from also becoming the loval version of the Drow/Dark Elves, called Black Elves/Night Elves. Although even today, the Ice Elves are noted to be the most closely related elf race to Black Elves/Night Elves.
Maybe one could have Ice Elves as a small faction of Dark Elves, that went north, and changed physicaly because of the enviroment(possibly related to the rare drow albinism???), with Tarsellis becoming their patron, as away of mutual attonement, and redemption, for both the god, and Snow Elves? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Dec 2014 : 15:06:26
I wrote the Snow Elf piece in the Elves of Faerūn.
Just sayin' 
I didn't bother to reference the Dragon article, since it didn't matter for the presentation method I choose (still leaving their existence in FR very ambiguous).
|
| Duneth Despana |
Posted - 08 Dec 2014 : 21:57:13
Tarsellis is the patron god of those
known as snow elves, who mainly
inhabit the Crystalmist mountains of
Oerth. (Rumor has it that snow elves
also exist on the far reaches of the Spine
of the World or even the High Ice portion
of Anauroch in Faerūn, though this
is unproven.)
From Dragon #236 |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 13:12:22
Agreed. I find that compilation impossible to use, since it's impossilbe to tell what's genuine obscure lore that they found somewhere, and what was created out of whole cloth. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 12:20:31
... if only he'd marked all "fan-fic" from the true lore. |
| Joran Nobleheart |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 22:53:08
I'm sure that he'd like to hear the thanks. And he has indeed done a wonderful job of organizing all the information together like he has.  |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 22:43:53
Good to know! I'll be sure to thank him for his work, should we cross scrolls. |
| Joran Nobleheart |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 19:36:25
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Someone on the Wizards of the Coast did a great heap of articles about elves in Faerun, called Lord KArsus, I think, The list seemed pretty comprehensive, so if snow elves are Realmsian, they're liable to be written up there. I'll go on a rummage and see what I can find...
EDIT: here we go, dunno how canonical it is, but there's plenty to play with: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19848934/Elves_of_Faern_Directory?num=10&pg=1
And the article itself on 'mythic snow elves': http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p54
Lord Karsus is also a member here, and he's known as Dagnirion. I think he seldom comes here anymore, though. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 18:19:19
There was also an old Dragon article on snow elves... "In the Frost and the Snow" appeared in Dragon 155. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 17:39:38
Someone on the Wizards of the Coast did a great heap of articles about elves in Faerun, called Lord KArsus, I think, The list seemed pretty comprehensive, so if snow elves are Realmsian, they're liable to be written up there. I'll go on a rummage and see what I can find...
EDIT: here we go, dunno how canonical it is, but there's plenty to play with: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19848934/Elves_of_Faern_Directory?num=10&pg=1
And the article itself on 'mythic snow elves': http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p54 |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 16:51:12
The only snow elves I can think of are found in the generic D&D Frostburn sourcebook, but they were never actually imported into the Realms. There's also Lamruil's far north kingdom, but that's composed of mainland subraces (mainly gold and silver). I don't think the Realms have snow elves. |
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