| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The DMs Revenge |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 02:03:24
Who are/were the Twisted Ones? Does anybody know? I know Tyranthraxus was linked to them, and two listed were Edranka and Torath.
Thanks. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 17 Jan 2015 : 13:33:55
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
In the adventure module Curse of the Azure Bonds Tyranthraxus is supposed to have been destroyed in the final encounter. He'd possessed an iron golem but a pair of magic gloves called the Gauntlets of Moander functioned to kill his spirit form when the golem was destroyed before he could escape through a Pool of Radiance again.
Hmmmmm........ I would say there could be another adventure out of this. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 17 Jan 2015 : 12:26:00
In the adventure module Curse of the Azure Bonds Tyranthraxus is supposed to have been destroyed in the final encounter. He'd possessed an iron golem but a pair of magic gloves called the Gauntlets of Moander functioned to kill his spirit form when the golem was destroyed before he could escape through a Pool of Radiance again. |
| Shadowsoul |
Posted - 17 Jan 2015 : 12:16:56
Was Tyranthraxus eventually destroyed? |
| Baltas |
Posted - 16 Jan 2015 : 09:33:40
quote:
Originally posted by Thangorn
I've written a pretty comprehensive background on Big T for my pathfinder POR campaign. Made tyranthraxus a disembodied Altraloth and described his relationship to the primordials discussed in some of the lore. I've mapped out exactly who torath and edranka were and what tyranthraxus' relationship to the POR and the dead three were. I just meant to fill a few holes but i've ended up writing 5k words and counting on this.. If its of interest to you PM me and i will get it to you, might spark some ideas at least.. I've worked up a bit of a timeline aswell..
Fun thing you mention Pathfinder. I crossed over Tyranthraxus to Golarion, and made him a projection of the bound Oinodaemon Anthraxus. He uses powers similar, or identical to the "Fiend of Possession" presrige class, to operate outside his bound form, and try to ultimately release himself. |
| Thangorn |
Posted - 15 Jan 2015 : 22:21:19
I've written a pretty comprehensive background on Big T for my pathfinder POR campaign. Made tyranthraxus a disembodied Altraloth and described his relationship to the primordials discussed in some of the lore. I've mapped out exactly who torath and edranka were and what tyranthraxus' relationship to the POR and the dead three were. I just meant to fill a few holes but i've ended up writing 5k words and counting on this.. If its of interest to you PM me and i will get it to you, might spark some ideas at least.. I've worked up a bit of a timeline aswell.. |
| Quale |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 20:15:00
In one of the adventures in Hellbound there's a yugoloth ''ghost'', created by a baernaloth I think. This is usually impossible to do with outsiders. Maybe something similar happened to Anthraxus, from before 'loths were known to purge themselves of chaotic and lawful taints. I like Gray's idea about loumaras, imagine a loumara made from a dead god who's spine is Khin-Oin. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 16:51:31
Thanks for the quick replies, Sage and Gray! I'd forgotten about FoE and Hellbound... again, I own both sources, but I need to rent a cube van and borrow a driver for a weekend moving trip sometime soon; not having my sources handy is an irritant that grows more annoying with every passing day.
Planescape... easily the single best product line for 2E... and Ravenloft and the Realms are probably #2 and #3, with Dark Sun coming in a close #4 and Birthright rounding out the top 5.  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 05:59:26
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Can anyone direct me to the best sources of canon lore on the yugoloths? I'm suspecting Planes of Conflict is #1... my copy of which is (along with all my other pre-3E material) still far too far away from me.
Gray's recommendation is THE BEST source on the yugoloths specifically, and the fiends in general. Others include, aside from the Planes of Conflict boxed set:-
- 2602 Monstrous Compendium Appendix
- 2613 Monstrous Compendium Appendix II
- 2635 Monstrous Compendium Appendix III
And, as well, the Hellbound: The Blood War accessory.
|
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 05:22:55
Faces of Evil: the Fiends pp.66-81. Most info about the 'loths in one place. There's other sources, but that's the best place to start. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 04:52:25
Can anyone direct me to the best sources of canon lore on the yugoloths? I'm suspecting Planes of Conflict is #1... my copy of which is (along with all my other pre-3E material) still far too far away from me. |
| Shemmy |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 02:16:37
quote:
Originally posted by JakkOn a related note: does anyone have any information regarding Mydianchlarus (Anthraxus' successor as Oinoloth)?
His name is a corruption of "chlamydia". And there's not much about him, other than he appears to have no unique form, which isn't typical for an Oinoloth. It really makes you ask just what did the Seige do to him. :) And if he doesn't on the surface seem different, you never know if it's a random Ultroloth looking at you in Khin-Oin, or the Lord of Oinos himself. Keeps the lesser 'loths in line certainly.
And while it's not in canon, I've always had the idea that the unique yugoloths are literally never whole and never alone. Each of them that acheives such a status harbors the presence of one of the baernaloths of The Demented like a lysogenic virus; a subtle presence in the blood that's always there, watching, making its presence known when it desires. They achieve power and recognition and in turn become puppets and hosts for beings far greater, whether they want it or not. And if true, it makes it an open question as to which baern occupied Anthraxus, and if one still does [though only two are named in canon, Daru ib Shamiq and Harishek Ap Thulkesh]. I wrote a story about that a few years ago, it's probably still online somewhere.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 01:50:10
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Weird...I came here because it said Markus made a post...but nothing. 
'Tis likely to have been an instance of Markus editing a previous post. He has "a way" of doing that.  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 01:47:31
Hmmm. The Siege Malicious is said to change whomever sits upon it. So if we follow my earlier theory further, I wonder what fate the Anthraxus/Tyranthraxus temporary merger would've endured? Maybe it was the long term exposure to the throne that ultimately forced Tyranthraxus to leave the safety of Anthraxus's bloodstream. Or perhaps the Siege Malicious [I've always assumed it's somewhat sentient, with a hint of intelligence left over from the god slain by the yugoloths to form Khin-Oin] was intrigued by what it sensed within Anthraxus, and changed them both -- providing Tyranthraxus with abilities he didn't have before.
Or, rather, maybe Tyranthraxus possessed the ability to access the memories of the host creature before his merger with Anthraxus, but was slowly driven mad as the overwhelming responsibility of the Siege Malicious impacted upon his mind. Thus, the throne provided Tyranthraxus with the capability later noted in the Realmslore, which allowed him to place the consciousness of any host body he invades, in a kind of temporaral stasis -- giving the Possessing Spirit full control of the host creature.
Why the Siege might have done this, is likely to remain hidden. Though I'll speculate further and suggest that perhaps the throne may have thought of turning Tyranthraxus to the ambitions of the yugoloths for a time. A powerful possessing spirit like Tyranthraxus could achieve a great deal for a race whose primary focus is the manipulation of just about everyone and everything throughout the multiverse. Or it could simply be just a matter of the Oinoloth and the Siege Malicious sensing something in Tyranthraxus that they thought could, perhaps, could assist the yugoloth race in their pursuit of the ultimate evolutionary form of pure evil. We know the yugoloths endure mostly because they wish to evolve to the next level of their evil state. Tyranthraxus might have held some secret that they were desperate to study/possess. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 01:09:51
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<snip>I just thought of something funny - I picture Ao being a HUGE Lava lamp, and all the gods are that amorphous stuff inside.
 Seriously, this is brilliant... as far as metaphors go, anyway; I don't think I'd want to take the image too literally (else I'd probably have the late Graham Chapman show up at my door saying "Stop that! It's getting silly!"), but we all know that literalism is dangerous where the gods are concerned anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
EDIT: And getting back on-topic more, I think 'taint' is the best way to go with creatures working for a fiend, whatever its origins, and perfectly fits the title 'Twisted Ones'. You can have the Gnolls/Flinds be an Island of Dr. Moreau type scenario then, if you want (although broken ones are the perfect fit for that).
You could also use Broken Ones as cast-offs, until Tyranthraxus got what he wanted - the feral, Gnoll-like warriors he was hoping for (in the same way that Uruk-Hai were 'perfected' orcs).
Lots of ways to spin that.
This is brilliant too... I think I'll finish up my thoughts on the origins and ascension of the Dark Three and Torm before I get too involved in yet another project, so if anyone else has any ideas and gets there before I do, by all means go for it... and please share!  |
| Jakk |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 01:03:58
quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Similar? 
Its an amalgam of Tyr + Anthraxus. That's a whole lot more telling then the 'Tirantikus' thing.
Suddenly occurs to me that it could be the amalgam of Tyrant and Anthraxus. So, the name change would have happened when he bowed before Bane, God of Tyranny.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Wow... that is bloody brilliant!
Yes, yes it is... and I really like the Sage's theory as to the origins of the possessing spirit as well... I may be adopting some combination of these two... this scroll is one of many examples of what I love about Candlekeep. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 18:18:19
Weird...I came here because it said Markus made a post...but nothing. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 16:45:24
I had the thought that Anthraxus has a true name which is not the one everyone knows him as...so having to use an assumed name, he chose Anthraxus simply because it was a disease...having no relation whatsoever between himself and the Possessing Spirit.
Meanwhile, the Tyrant Hraxus the Primordial escaped his imprisonment by shedding his flesh and becoming a Possessing Spirit.
EDIT: sorry...had another thought I forgot to put in there.
I began thinking of Hraxus when I thought of Haask and Hargut; just thought I would share where Tyrant Hraxus had his beginnings. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 16:37:38
Very cool idea sage - not your classic 'high fantasy trope', and FR could use some more 'gritty fantasy' stuff like that.
As for Gray's idea: What if 'Tyr' means 'warrior' in some Fiendish/extra-planer tongue? However, it could have a thrall-like connotation as well - a warrior/defender who is forced into service. Maybe even something akin to enslaved holy soldiers, like the Mamluks of Middle-Eastern culture. Ergo, Tyr-Anthraxus would literally mean 'Holy servant of Anthraxus'.
That would fit both the Tyranthraxus concept and the deity Tyr. |
| Bakra |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 12:55:17
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Whatever his origin, I think there's probably a fascinating tale to be told.
Heh. You know, it just occurred to me that Tyranthraxus is said to be able to maintain himself in magical liquid should no host bodies be present. I'm wondering, now, whether Tyranthraxus, perhaps with an earlier form of his name [say, Tirantikus] was purposely desperate in allowing himself to be inhaled by Anthraxus, whereupon Tirantikus found his form sustained within the blood [itself, a magical liquid] of the ultroloth for a time. Much like an anthrax bacterial infection, Tirantikus later discovered a new host body, removed himself from Anthraxus, and started calling himself Tyranthraxus -- a form of "spiritual bacteria" that could "lord over" his victims like a tyrant.
[Just more rambling, really, while waiting for a program to compile.]
I like this theory. I give it a hearty two thumbs up. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 03:15:05
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Whatever his origin, I think there's probably a fascinating tale to be told.
Heh. You know, it just occurred to me that Tyranthraxus is said to be able to maintain himself in magical liquid should no host bodies be present. I'm wondering, now, whether Tyranthraxus, perhaps with an earlier form of his name [say, Tirantikus] was purposely desperate in allowing himself to be inhaled by Anthraxus, whereupon Tirantikus found his form sustained within the blood [itself, a magical liquid] of the ultroloth for a time. Much like an anthrax bacterial infection, Tirantikus later discovered a new host body, removed himself from Anthraxus, and started calling himself Tyranthraxus -- a form of "spiritual bacteria" that could "lord over" his victims like a tyrant.
[Just more rambling, really, while waiting for a program to compile.] |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 02:19:49
I agree with the Shemster. I strongly discourage the association of Tyranthraxus with Anthraxus. Or Tyr for that matter. I have always thought that the name was evocative of "Tyrant," although whether that was intentional or not is debatable. Not sure if the word "Tyrant" would have any similar meaning in whatever language the name hails from.
If there is a connection, it might simply be that -ix, -ic, -us and -axus are common name endings in Yugoloth circles: Bubonix, Cholerix, Cerlic, Daru Ib Shamiq, Anthraxus, Diptherius, Mydianchlarus, Typhus etc. It could just be a passing similarity. Or even a common name. Maybe there are countless Yugoloths named "Anthraxus" or a similar variant, just as there are millions of Christophers, Johns, Jesuses, and Muhammeds in our world.
Or alternatively, Tyranthraxus might have been named after Anthraxus (in part) not sure if they select their own names or are given them by their masters. It could be he selected the name himself out of tribute or admiration for Anthraxus. Or then again, it could be a patronymic, it might mean "son of Anthraxus."
Lastly, it is possible that Anthraxus was his master at some point and that Anthraxus likes to name his underlings after himself in the way that the Judeo-Christian god (El) incorporated his name into that of many of the angels, such as "Gabriel" which means "Strength of God" and "Michael" which means "Like unto God" and so on. "Tyranthraxus" might therefore mean something like "Servant of Anthraxus," or "Bound to Anthraxus," or "Will of Anthraxus," or "Canker Sore of Anthraxus." Something that either signifies his subordination to Anthraxus, or something about his job as an agent of Anthraxus, or something nasty. Note that a lot of Yugoloths are named after diseaeses, and the "Tyr" part of his name might be some kind of disease like a pox or germ or growth, etc.
Anyway, I don't think there is any support in the lore for the idea that Tyranthraxus is Anthraxus or a Faerūnian avatar of Anthraxus. He seems to have been a possessor spirit for millennia.
I am still very partial to the idea that Tyranthraxus is actually a Yugoloth version of a Loumara (incorporeal race of possessor demons) if there is such a thing, he might have been created by Anthraxus to serve such a purpose. Or perhaps he even started out as converted Loumara who fell from the ranks of the Abyss and joined up with the 'Loths. Perhaps even joined up under, or at the behest of Anthraxus.
I think that could be an interesting story about how Anthraxus seduced a Loumara to join the Yugololoths, or maybe he was compelled or tricked in some fashion. Whatever his origin, I think there's probably a fascinating tale to be told. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 01:39:20
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
The mention of "Tyranthraxus" likely predates the fall of Anthraxus as Oinoloth however.
Perhaps. But it's fun to speculate, nonetheless. And the relationship of time between the planes and various game worlds hasn't always been so definitive, so it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility that an entity named "Tyranthraxus" appeared in Realmspace before the fall of Anthraxus.
But I suppose that's just my usual rambling. I'm a fan of temporal situations whereupon effect can somtimes precede cause.  [Probably due to my love of determining just "when" the Dawn Cataclysm occurred in the timeline.]
quote:
Also, it's probably up for debate if other beings with a vested interest in the former Oinoloth (ie The Demented) would allow him to be used as a puppet in such a diminished form by a deity.
Of other deities, that's probably true. But I doubt most other non-divine beings would really have much of a choice.
|
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 22:06:29
And all it costs you is more posts in my Pools of Darkness thread. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 21:58:04
Wow... that is bloody brilliant! |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 21:43:36
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Similar?
Its an amalgam of Tyr + Anthraxus. That's a whole lot more telling then the 'Tirantikus' thing.
Suddenly occurs to me that it could be the amalgam of Tyrant and Anthraxus. So, the name change would have happened when he bowed before Bane, God of Tyranny. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 21:12:44
Probably a love-child of Mydia and Anchlarus
But seriously, that's is another unique take on the name Jakk. The only problem I have is why Anthraxus wanted a child by Tyr (did it have something to do with the Realms?), and how 'it' was able to deceive him.
I just had a funny thought... I picture Tyr bleeding and near-death right after his hand got eaten by Kezif/Garm (in the lower planes, naturally), and a rather hideous but love-sick Anthraxus finding him and nursing him back to health. Talk about your grotesque Misery scenario. 
just found this rather interesting tidbit on Wikipedia about Tyr-quote:
In Lokasenna, Tyr is taunted with cuckoldry by Loki, maybe another hint that he had a consort or wife at one time.
Interesting... we know Norse gods have a thing for strange relationships (and I think Annam is really Odin, BTW), as many gods in myths do, so this now becomes somewhat plausible. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 20:26:18
This has been a fascinating discussion... so much so that I've copied and pasted most of it into Notepad. Yes, I use Notepad for all my CK transcriptions. It's faster than dealing with Word, and I don't need text formatting anyway.
However, another idea just occurred to me as I was going back through this... what if there is a connection between Tyranthraxus and Anthraxus... and that connection is Tyr... but the connection goes deeper than previously theorized?
Before Tyr came to the Realms, in his planar travels he encountered a bewitchingly beautiful goddess... or so he thought. This "goddess" was actually Anthraxus in another form, who conceives a child with Tyr and returns to the Gray Waste. Anthraxus' offspring is left nameless at birth, but when he is old enough, he is told the secret of his parentage, and he takes the name of Tyranthraxus. In the meantime, Tyr has discovered the truth of his dalliance, and this is why the church of Tyr is such a dedicated foe of the Flamed One. As far as the other details of Tyranthraxus' past, I think that's already been very well done by Markustay, Gray, Quale, and others before me in this scroll.
Really, if you think about Anthraxus' "true" (or most common) form, you can understand Tyr's revulsion and hatred for his progeny.
On a related note: does anyone have any information regarding Mydianchlarus (Anthraxus' successor as Oinoloth)? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 20:08:08
Similar?
Its an amalgam of Tyr + Anthraxus. That's a whole lot more telling then the 'Tirantikus' thing.
Anyhow, these are really little more then mental exercises to give DMs ideas - I doubt we will be seeing any canon about the distant past anymore.
And to show that I can argue both sides, we do indeed have precedents of similar-sounding names amongst the lower planes - Bhaal and Baal, Gog and Magog, Satan/Satanish/Shaitan, Mephisto/Mephistopheles, etc.....
That last one, coupled with 'Mephits' makes me think that the prefix 'Meph' perhaps means something in some infernal tongue, although what I couldn't even guess. |
| Shemmy |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 19:03:32
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I still like the Anthraxus-as-the-original-being scenario, however you spin it. FR is full of that sort of stuff - deities absorbing others, changing, and splitting apart, etc.. it just fits the setting.
I don't have any actual problem with that theory. I'd just expect that if the "Anthraxus-to-Tyranthraxus" concept were true, I would like to see some acknowledgement of his Oinoloth past.
Though, thinking about this further, it's entirely possible that Tyranthraxus might not remember his past. When Anthraxus fell from the position of Oinoloth, it was said that he scoured the lower planes looking to offer his services to various evil powers. Perhaps one of these deity's "took pity" on the fallen Ultroloth, and shaped [and by this I mean, from a physical presence to that of a disembodied entity] him into something that would ultimately suit the deity's own agenda. That could explain the addition of the "possessing spirit" aspect to his being, as well as some of his other strange abilities, as noted in the Villains' Lorebook.
The mention of "Tyranthraxus" likely predates the fall of Anthraxus as Oinoloth however. Also, it's probably up for debate if other beings with a vested interest in the former Oinoloth (ie The Demented) would allow him to be used as a puppet in such a diminished form by a deity.
But again, I would strongly argue for no connection between Anthraxus and Tyranthraxus beyond a similar name. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 17:25:06
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I still like the Anthraxus-as-the-original-being scenario, however you spin it. FR is full of that sort of stuff - deities absorbing others, changing, and splitting apart, etc.. it just fits the setting.
I don't have any actual problem with that theory. I'd just expect that if the "Anthraxus-to-Tyranthraxus" concept were true, I would like to see some acknowledgement of his Oinoloth past.
Though, thinking about this further, it's entirely possible that Tyranthraxus might not remember his past. When Anthraxus fell from the position of Oinoloth, it was said that he scoured the lower planes looking to offer his services to various evil powers. Perhaps one of these deity's "took pity" on the fallen Ultroloth, and shaped [and by this I mean, from a physical presence to that of a disembodied entity] him into something that would ultimately suit the deity's own agenda. That could explain the addition of the "possessing spirit" aspect to his being, as well as some of his other strange abilities, as noted in the Villains' Lorebook. |
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