| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 15 Oct 2009 : 03:17:21
I'm interested in people posting concepts they have for areas that were left mostly undeveloped. For example, Selunnara or whatever. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 17:15:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
The tie with the bedine is one of the worst choices they could have made in my opinion. Culturally and( to a degree)logically, the lands around Calimshan would be a better choice, if an area closer to the Heartlands was needed. It is a bit strange really, that they didn't tie Zakhara closer to the lands of the Shining South, there are great possibilities for intrigue and plots in the contact between the continents in this area- Especially with Kara-Tur so close by.
I dunno, I think it works. Both areas are basically culturally isolated from others, which helps keep a degree of uniqueness going on.
It works, but I think it is a bit of a missed opportunity, with all the similar areas (I would put parts of the Hordelands with Semphar for example in the same group)bearing cultural likenesses, more could have been made out of it. Especially with the Calishites and Amnites not all that far away. But again, its not all that important in the long run and, as you say, it works.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
P.S. Just out of curiosity Wooly, what do you think of the Al Quadim products when reading them now?
I'm enjoying them, though I think I'm enjoying reading the Planescape stuff more. I didn't have a lot of either before the fire, but in the process of replacing FR stuff, I managed to get all the sourcebooks, modules, and boxed sets for both Al-Qadim and Planescape. So now I'm reading thru it -- though both have been set aside for the moment, as I read the new Golarian stuff that recently arrived. 
Thanks. I still feel that the Al-Qadim line was among TSR's strongest with no bad product that I can think of. In many ways the setting was handled in the way I wished the Realms had been from the start.
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| Jorkens |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 17:06:34
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
Canonically, the Bedine are Zakharans transplanted by means of gates.
I know that, but I am curious as to which Realms source book first mentioned this. I feel I have seen it in some 2ed. book (and not Al Quadim), but I cant remmember which. I am still searching though. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 15:09:05
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
Canonically, the Bedine are Zakharans transplanted by means of gates. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 14:36:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno, I think it works. Both areas are basically culturally isolated from others, which helps keep a degree of uniqueness going on.
Tom Costa worked out a possible explanation for it here at Candlekeep a few years back. I'll search the archives for it. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 14:15:07
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
The tie with the bedine is one of the worst choices they could have made in my opinion. Culturally and( to a degree)logically, the lands around Calimshan would be a better choice, if an area closer to the Heartlands was needed. It is a bit strange really, that they didn't tie Zakhara closer to the lands of the Shining South, there are great possibilities for intrigue and plots in the contact between the continents in this area- Especially with Kara-Tur so close by.
I dunno, I think it works. Both areas are basically culturally isolated from others, which helps keep a degree of uniqueness going on.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
P.S. Just out of curiosity Wooly, what do you think of the Al Quadim products when reading them now?
I'm enjoying them, though I think I'm enjoying reading the Planescape stuff more. I didn't have a lot of either before the fire, but in the process of replacing FR stuff, I managed to get all the sourcebooks, modules, and boxed sets for both Al-Qadim and Planescape. So now I'm reading thru it -- though both have been set aside for the moment, as I read the new Golarian stuff that recently arrived. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 09:25:45
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
*snip*
I don't know if I think aasimar descended from Lillendi, Shards, or other chaotic outsiders should have their favoured class be PALADIN though. It seems as though Selunnaran aasimar should have an alternate favored class (or a choice of several...such as Cleric, bard, or sorceror. I'd lean towards Cleric...) What do other people think
Depends how liberal you want to be with alignment restrictions (or which edition you're using). Aside from that, I reckon sorceror might be a good one, seeing as they were a magically encline people prior to decamping to Gates of the Moon and getting it on with a bunch of magically enclined Outsiders. Dunno how Netherese a shift from magic of the book to magic of the blood is, but they have been out there for quite some time.
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| Jorkens |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 07:04:51
Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
The tie with the bedine is one of the worst choices they could have made in my opinion. Culturally and( to a degree)logically, the lands around Calimshan would be a better choice, if an area closer to the Heartlands was needed. It is a bit strange really, that they didn't tie Zakhara closer to the lands of the Shining South, there are great possibilities for intrigue and plots in the contact between the continents in this area- Especially with Kara-Tur so close by.
P.S. Just out of curiosity Wooly, what do you think of the Al Quadim products when reading them now? |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 04:02:44
I don't remember where but I read somewhere that the Bedine travelled through portals to Anauroch from Zakhara. 500,000 people being descended from people who came through a portal seems very far fetched to me though! I agree that it would make more sense for them to be locally grown. They worship Faerunian deities, for example, and so forth.
Also earlier someone said he thought the effects of being in the Gates of the Moon made the residents of Opus become Aasimar. But I got access to "Waterdeep" and an NDP is from Selunnara! A gryphon riding Paladin/Sorceror. It says explicitly in his description the Selunnarans became aasimar by interbreeding with native residents of the Gates of the Moon. He has silver streaked hair, etc.
I don't know if I think aasimar descended from Lillendi, Shards, or other chaotic outsiders should have their favoured class be PALADIN though. It seems as though Selunnaran aasimar should have an alternate favored class (or a choice of several...such as Cleric, bard, or sorceror. I'd lean towards Cleric...) What do other people think |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 16:26:59
Aye. Wooly has the right of it. I seem to recall something to that effect referenced in one of the Al-Qadim products [though, I can't remember which at the moment].
Also, I just remembered this little tidbit from the Lady Hooded One from back in August last year:-
quote:
If I recall correctly, Jeff Grubb went through Ed's ANAUROCH FR accessory and talked with Ed about which spells and Bedine elements could readily be used in the new "Arabian Adventures" setting (Al-Qadim), and (as Sage mentions) the link was then 'reverse-engineered' to loosely link Zakhara to Faerun (rather more adroitly than some of the other "chunks of real-world or Hollywood version thereof" elements were tied to Ed's root Realms).
love to all,
THO
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 15:57:00
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I skimmed through the 2ed. campaign book last night. Midani is mentioned there as the language of Zakhara (under languages of the Realms), but nothing that ties the Bediine with Zakhara.
It would probably be a better idea for the Bedine to be descendants of Shoon auxiliary from the south that were cut of from their army, mixed with descendants of Netheril, but that's just my opinion. That would have given a link to the "Middle-Eastern" cultures whilst still keeping it somewhat logical. The Zakharan background always seemed like a somewhat forced attempt to tie the two settings together.
I've been reading thru the Zakhara stuff, of late, alternating it with Planescape stuff. I seem to recall a line or two in there connecting the Bedine and Zakharan peoples, but it's not something they really expand on. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 07:15:07
I skimmed through the 2ed. campaign book last night. Midani is mentioned there as the language of Zakhara (under languages of the Realms), but nothing that ties the Bediine with Zakhara.
It would probably be a better idea for the Bedine to be descendants of Shoon auxiliary from the south that were cut of from their army, mixed with descendants of Netheril, but that's just my opinion. That would have given a link to the "Middle-Eastern" cultures whilst still keeping it somewhat logical. The Zakharan background always seemed like a somewhat forced attempt to tie the two settings together.
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| Quale |
Posted - 10 Nov 2009 : 21:42:59
I don't have the books right now. Languages of the Realms article from the Dragon Annual, think 1999, says that the language of the Bedine is Ulutiun (sp?). Almost sure that 3e FRCS or Races of Faerun introduced Midani.
Edit: 2e Campaign box only ties Zakharan influences with the Empires of the Sands, not Anauroch. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 10 Nov 2009 : 18:36:17
Yea, I think they were Denning's. A human desert-culture can work fine in the area, but tying it to closely with Bedouin culture was a mistake. warlike nomads that are the descendants of earlier human cultures I have no problem with. As were the Celts and (so-called) Norse culture in the Moonshae.
Did the first clear ties between the Bedine and Zakhara come with the 2ed. campaign box? |
| Quale |
Posted - 10 Nov 2009 : 17:41:35
Yea, Zakhara was released a year after Anauroch and Parched Sea. I think the Bedine were invented by Troy Denning, earlier sources like Savage Frontier just mention the nomad population. It's not which desert got that type of culture first, personally the Bedine are like putting Celts into Kara-Tur. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 10 Nov 2009 : 09:45:36
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
They belong elsewhere, in Zakhara, from where they came through a portal. Anauroch needed a more Realmsian culture, beside all other deserts on Toril, it gets redundant.
I am a bit rusty here. If I remmember correctly Zakhara was published a couple of years after the Bedine were introduced. Was there any mention of their background in the earliest sources. I have never read the first novel of the Harper series and its been a while since I read the Anauroch book (something to do tonight I think) so the Bedine are not exactly my speciality. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 07 Nov 2009 : 10:52:30
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
I'm also considering dumping Mr. Primordial in the radioactive crater that once was Halruaa, but I'm just as likely to resurrect it with the help of Selunarra, the Halruans had Netherese blood, after all
Maybe instead of a primodrial there could be some plaguechanged critter that controls the area and has to be killed in order to restore Halruaa. I imagine some gigantic bloated and disfigured monster lurking in the centre of what was once Halruaa. 
Yeah baby, now you're playin' my song!
What kinda big bad beasty can we use? A thumping great dracolich? A dragon ghost or wraith?
What about more humanoid and alive things?
Other undeveloped bits I'd love to see more of are all points north of the usual map, specifically Hartsvale.
EDIT: sorry, got a bit carried away and went OT. |
| Tyranthraxus |
Posted - 06 Nov 2009 : 21:04:50
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
I'm also considering dumping Mr. Primordial in the radioactive crater that once was Halruaa, but I'm just as likely to resurrect it with the help of Selunarra, the Halruans had Netherese blood, after all
Maybe instead of a primodrial there could be some plaguechanged critter that controls the area and has to be killed in order to restore Halruaa. I imagine some gigantic bloated and disfigured monster lurking in the centre of what was once Halruaa. |
| Cleric Generic |
Posted - 06 Nov 2009 : 18:30:50
Inspired by the awesome maps of Markustay, I've recently been thinking up stuff to do with Yaimmunahar (sp?), the Hordelands and stuff generally east of Thay.
Note, I'm pretty ignorant of whatever lore there is regarding the wodge of land between Faerun and Shou Lung, so hopefully I haven't inadvertently bulldozed anything.
What I'm doing is removing some of the 'Mongol Horde' vibe I get (rightly or wrongly) from the Tuigan Horde and associated tribes of the region and supplanting it with an intricate caste/bloodline/clan system, etc. I also have this idea in my head about a radically different system of religion to the Faeruninan pantheons and sub-pantheons; what I want to give them is a bunch of demigods encarnate of all shapes ond sizes, instead of a few all powerful 'proper' deities.
These cheeky chappies all do their thing west of the Kora Shan / Spiderhaunt corridor leading to the Quoya Desert (see the Markus Maps). That corridor, with it's wealth of volcanoes and mystery blank bits, along with Quoya, is probably going to turn into a Mordor-esque volcanic hellscape wherein an as yet undefined Primordial (yes, 4e, egads!) has crash landed following the destruction of the rest of wherever Returned Abeir came from. It is less than amused by it's current predicament (I'm also considering dumping Mr. Primordial in the radioactive crater that once was Halruaa, but I'm just as likely to resurrect it with the help of Selunarra, the Halruans had Netherese blood, after all)...
That's my vague ponderings, so far |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 23:45:30
Well, there were no native humans in the desert, at least not in any significant numbers. So the Bedine were obviously a convenient choice.
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| Quale |
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 17:38:01
They belong elsewhere, in Zakhara, from where they came through a portal. Anauroch needed a more Realmsian culture, beside all other deserts on Toril, it gets redundant. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 05:50:58
Um...I think Opus would consider the Bedine like the same people as them since they are all Netherese. Why do you hate them...? |
| Quale |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 15:52:44
well I meant while the city is still in the Selune's domain, the return would sure make things easier
I don't like the Bedine, probably they would accept the protection of Opus if offered facing extinction. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Oct 2009 : 21:58:10
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Such travels? If Selunnara returned to the Realms it would be in Bedine territory.
Not necessarily. Depending on the nature of their return, they could target their entry point. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 24 Oct 2009 : 20:05:15
Such travels? If Selunnara returned to the Realms it would be in Bedine territory. |
| Quale |
Posted - 24 Oct 2009 : 08:22:26
I think they're in Bestiary of the Realms vol.1 or 2. and kholiathras also in Elves of Evermeet. The aasimar population seems to originate from the influence/mutations of the plane, not from interbreeding that much. Just speculating, lillendi and eladrins, would be about 1 percent, tough they aren't the type to settle in. Bariaurs, several dozens of them, githzerai just a few scholarly types. Doubt there'd be many elves.
I don't think the Bedine/Gur would be capable of such travels, maybe a few great shamans in a thousand years. Planes of Chaos poorly describes the place, just Argentil and Mahogany, not much about the life there, from what I remember. Don't forget to use the Infinite Staircase btw. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 23 Oct 2009 : 02:27:27
Whether Selunnara being back or not is not should have happened isn't really what I'm interested in. I wanted to see how other people envisioned it if it did happen.
For my concept I thought it would be unbalanced to have a city full of celestials. So I thought they'd have been left behind in the return to the Prime material plane. But leaving a legacy of Aasimar and Half-Celestials.
Also I was unclear if the population was ENTIRELY Aasimar, or if just the majority. Is this an effect of being inthe Gates of the Moon or interbreeding with lillendi, devas, guardinals, eladrins, etc.? How many immigrants would have arrived in the city such as Githzerai, elves, bariaurs... Once they returned to the realms who might immigrate there? I was thinking Bedine and Gur (the Children of Selune who are like gypsies or whatever) would. What proportion of the population
Also from the description of the Gates of the Moon it didn't sound completely heavenly to me (In a Planescape book...I forget which one. Planes of Chaos, possibly?) More wild and bipolar seeming.
I imagined the society having been raised knowing they'd one day return to Faerun...like it was their destiny. Its Selune's decision, not their's, after all. A good society consisting largely of Aasimars would have a sense of responsibility, however, so I don't think people would have protested...
What are sinds, feelenstials, kholiathras ? When I google them it links back to this page! haha. |
| Quale |
Posted - 22 Oct 2009 : 20:29:31
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Why is no one posting anything related to the topic? ......
I wouldn't know where to start, most areas outside of the Heartlands (imo) are ''undeveloped''.
We played in Selunarra, I'm glad they didn't bring the city back to the Prime, that would be ''needless symmetry''. In our version the inhabitants of Opus were unconcerned about Toril, with a mindset alien to the affairs of Faerun. It's a place of art and freedom, no Selunite zealots dedicated to holy wars against the Sharrans, only a rare few have martyring tendencies to leave heaven, acting as planewalker agents and Indepts, But I changed the Gates of the Moon somewhat, Opus is incapable of flight and is on a gravitational-orbital path around Noctos (the cosmic moon, moved from the Beastlands, it is a ''white hole'' that delivers light to the multiverse).
Also the population wasn't just aasimars, but lillendi, shards, slivers, feelenstials, kholiathras, eladrins (old), asuras, bariaurs, sinds, lythari, firestars, flickers, asrai, moon dogs etc. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 06:11:53
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Well, Candlekeep Compendium (I have no link, but I'm sure someone can supply it) has TONS of such material.
In my own signature is a thread on Ixinos (located in the Vilhoun Reach near Turmish, etc) and there are lots of other threads devoted to this very topic.
I would dig around for you, but I'm notoriously lazy and something of a ne'er-do-well to boot.
As things come to me though, I'll be glad to post them here.
I'd also recommend a search of the WotC boards too. There's almost always threads popping up about what DMs may do with some of the more undeveloped/underutilised regions of Toril. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 06:05:26
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Well, Candlekeep Compendium (I have no link, but I'm sure someone can supply it) has TONS of such material.
Both Sage and I have the links in our sigs. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 05:26:32
Well, Candlekeep Compendium (I have no link, but I'm sure someone can supply it) has TONS of such material.
In my own signature is a thread on Ixinos (located in the Vilhoun Reach near Turmish, etc) and there are lots of other threads devoted to this very topic.
I would dig around for you, but I'm notoriously lazy and something of a ne'er-do-well to boot.
As things come to me though, I'll be glad to post them here. |
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