| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Raith |
Posted - 20 Aug 2009 : 15:43:19
Hi there all! I was wondering if anybody knew which real-world accents would best be attached to which areas in the Realms. So far I know that Thay is Russian, and I think Sembia is...French? (Help me out especially on this one, it's something thats been driving me nuts)
Anybody know this one? I know its a tall order. Thanks a lot! |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Marquant Volker |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 13:22:26
I agree witgh swifty, in my mind Waterdeep has many similarities to London, while i always thought that Cormyr could have a Germanic accent |
| swifty |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 12:33:29
would waterdeep have a native accent.with it being a melting pot of so many different cultures and even races it reminds me of new york or london.ive always thought of a native tough from dock ward would sound like working class east london during the time of jack the ripper.and the nobles of castle ward would sound like upper class english nobels or blue blooded americans. |
| Aquanova |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 02:08:22
quote:
Originally posted by Raith
Hi there all! I was wondering if anybody knew which real-world accents would best be attached to which areas in the Realms. So far I know that Thay is Russian, and I think Sembia is...French? (Help me out especially on this one, it's something thats been driving me nuts)
Anybody know this one? I know its a tall order. Thanks a lot!
Whoa whoa whoa, Rashemi is Russian; I always thought Thay{an} was Akkadian, or Latin. Did I miss something? |
| Zanan |
Posted - 29 Aug 2009 : 14:50:40
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Now I remember why I did better in the literature-focusing parts of my studies. Poetry is peanuts compared to linguistics and language developments.
Quite the opposite ... once you get the hang o'it (Then again, I would agree re linguistics.) |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 29 Aug 2009 : 12:31:26
I have no problem with the development of different languages within the Realms, but I do have problems with the earthly influences pasted into the Realms. I figured it was Spellbound that first brought up the links, but was curious whether there were hints in earlier products. The idea was so idiotic it turned me of the whole area. The Russ ideas was no better. I would have thought that by that time they would have lessened the whole Real-World influence thing.
I would separate the linguistics more along the lines of Eastern Germanic (Goths, Vandals and Burgundians (I think)) and the Western Germanic. The eastern family survived to the late early 18th century in Crimea. But even these borders are a bit problematic, especially when the age is concerned as groups migrated from the same area. The north/south border would be newer in my opinion, as there are great lie. Even in the early Viking age Norse and Saxon were mutually understandable although with some emerging differences.
One encounters some of the same problems with the P-Celtic and Q-Celtic border in the British Isles. In many ways linguistics are still struggling with some of the borders set up during the Romantic age, especially when it concerns hypothetical proto-versions of languages.
Now I remember why I did better in the literature-focusing parts of my studies. Poetry is peanuts compared to linguistics and language developments.
|
| Zanan |
Posted - 29 Aug 2009 : 10:49:38
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
But to bring it back to the Realms. Where did the idea that the people of Rashemen where Slavonic come from? Its not in the Grey box and it is not in the Dreams of the Red Wizards book.
Mostly names. Have a look into the Spellbound - Box or Elaine's books, Unapproachable East, the monsters that hang about there. Fjodor, huts on one leg, rusalka monsters etc..
I would assume that speaking about real world language issues and developement will not cause the admins to intervene, as it may give a broader perspective about languages in the Realms may "work".
Speaking of which, English, German (and all accents and dialects thereof), and Dutch all come from the Western branch of Germanic, whereas Norwegian, Danish and Swedish developed from the Northern branch. To the Southern branch belonged - amongst others - Goth/ic, though that more or less died out ages ago. What differentiates English from German are the sound shift and tons of loans from Norman-French and early medieval Danish/Norwegian. The more to the North you come in Germany, the more "English" (pronunciation-/word-wise) it gets, and it is no real wonder that Northern Germans (speaking Platt or Low German) have not that much difficulty to understand the Dutch.
On another sidenote, the more to the North you come in Britain, the less the sound change becomes apparent (compared to German, for example). That's because the northern realms of Britain were mainly settled by the Angles, whereas the southern counties belonged to the (West-)Saxons. Anglish was the prominent language of Britain when the Danes started to occupy large parts of central England (their language easily mixed with the then even closer, similar tongues) and Anglish declined somewhat in status. The English (i.e. Saxon) kings of the south (e.g. Wessex - "Western Saxony", as opposed to Essex - "East Saxony") started to push the Danes out of Britain and once that was done, Western Saxon became the dominant every-day language of England, essentially the base of most Englishes that we speak today.
The Northern part (i.e. Southern Scotland and Northern England (Northumbria, Cumbria, Westmorland, Cumberland et al)) remained in "Anglish" hands though and from that developed "Scots", which is not "British (i.e. West Saxon) English with a Scottish Accent", but essentially a language of its own. It features Scots Gaelic, Norwegian and Danish loans and its own Northern British (sort of Anglish) pronunciation. Since Anglish and Saxon were very close to begin with, Scots and English were/are too. "Scottish English" developed from an amalgamation of Scots and English and pushed back Scots as an everyday language over the centuries. A look at Wikipedia or google'ing Scots or e.g. Ulster Scots will give you further clues.
This all above shows you how quickly a single language can change or develop, start creating accents et al. And now remember that the Realms' history stretches far longer than the 500 years I draw your attention upon above. And they not only have regional languages, but those of races too.
NB: If you want a sample of Scots, have a look into John Barbour - The Bruce, written in the 14th century. Which will also tell you that William Wallace and Robert the Bruce were not exactly the Gaelic speaking Highlanders of Braveheart, fighting for their freedom, but to a large extend Scots-speaking Lowlanders who held and fought for possessions their predominantly Anglish (and to an extend British Celtic) forefathers claimed centuries earlier. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Aug 2009 : 00:21:16
quote:
Originally posted by Bluenose
quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I have been wondering how would the non humans accents would sound like. For instance, what of Drow, Sun Elves, gold dwarves, duergar, etc.
Drow have clearly got to have an Australian accent.
They come from a land down under, where men are cowed and women thunder.
Giant poisonous spiders everywhere.
You've even got an equivalent to Steve Irwin in Drizzt, everyone else thinks Australians are like that while the Australians/Drow would rather forget him.
And to quote a New Zealander, all Australians are spider-worshippers governed by religious she-zealots.
Hey, at least we're not from Osse.  |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 20:47:03
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Apparently, Danes, Swedes and Norwegians can all understand one another (although I don't know for sure.)
To a degree. But the dialects (especially in Sweden and Norway) are so varied that it can be a problem of understanding each other within each country.
The Norwegian situation is one with two (in addition to the various Sami languages) written languages no one really speaks and numerous dialects that are spoken, but not written.
I was thinking of you when I wrote that. Nynorsk and Bokmal aren't they?
Yup, that's it. I am starting to get bad memories from the university here. Language is a favourite topic for political arguments in Norway, at times bordering on the ridiculous.
There is an old satiric newspaper illustration of an old Russian looking at a barricade with fighting Norwegian rebels. The text under says(more or less): Russian:"How is the revolution going here in this country?" Rebel: "Revolution? We are just now trying to decide how to spell it" |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 19:34:18
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Apparently, Danes, Swedes and Norwegians can all understand one another (although I don't know for sure.)
To a degree. But the dialects (especially in Sweden and Norway) are so varied that it can be a problem of understanding each other within each country.
The Norwegian situation is one with two (in addition to the various Sami languages) written languages no one really speaks and numerous dialects that are spoken, but not written.
I was thinking of you when I wrote that. Nynorsk and Bokmal aren't they?
I don't think we're going too far off-topic talking about real-world examples - so long as we're doing so with the intention of trying to understand how things might work in the Realms. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 19:33:49
quote:
Originally posted by Bluenose
Drow have clearly got to have an Australian accent.
They come from a land down under, where men are cowed and women thunder.
Giant poisonous spiders everywhere.
You've even got an equivalent to Steve Irwin in Drizzt, everyone else thinks Australians are like that while the Australians/Drow would rather forget him.
And to quote a New Zealander, all Australians are spider-worshippers governed by religious she-zealots.
 |
| Bluenose |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 19:29:45
quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I have been wondering how would the non humans accents would sound like. For instance, what of Drow, Sun Elves, gold dwarves, duergar, etc.
Drow have clearly got to have an Australian accent.
They come from a land down under, where men are cowed and women thunder.
Giant poisonous spiders everywhere.
You've even got an equivalent to Steve Irwin in Drizzt, everyone else thinks Australians are like that while the Australians/Drow would rather forget him.
And to quote a New Zealander, all Australians are spider-worshippers governed by religious she-zealots. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 15:33:04
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Apparently, Danes, Swedes and Norwegians can all understand one another (although I don't know for sure.)
To a degree. But the dialects (especially in Sweden and Norway) are so varied that it can be a problem of understanding each other within each country.
The Norwegian situation is one with two (in addition to the various Sami languages) written languages no one really speaks and numerous dialects that are spoken, but not written.
Ok, sorry for going of-topic.
But to bring it back to the Realms. Where did the idea that the people of Rashemen where Slavonic come from? Its not in the Grey box and it is not in the Dreams of the Red Wizards book. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 12:42:01
Some languages may be related and have a large degree of intelligibility. I think it was Mark Twain who said a language was just a dialect with an army. In Europe, you see dialect continuums, for example Dutch moving through to Bayerisch. Platte Deutsch shares a lot with Dutch (which has its own accents such as Brabants, Limburgs, Gronings). I overheard someone speaking Danish last weekend and I could just about make out what she was saying. From a historical point of view, the Viking invasions of England left little real trace in Danelaw but had a big effect in the Celtic countries. One reason for this was the similarity between Anglo-Saxon and Norse. Apparently, Danes, Swedes and Norwegians can all understand one another (although I don't know for sure.)
If you travel south from Paris, you'll encounter (or did) Occitan, Catalan then Spanish. The languages have enough to make them sound different but certainly written down they all look to have had a shared ancestor. Swifty mentioned Geordie, which is nigh on unintelligible to most English speakers, yet over the border the speakers of Scots understand them fairly well.
So to return to the Realms, it could well be that what we see as separate languages could have reasonable degrees of intelligibility. I'd have to look at the books, of course, (and I'm sure these has already been debated and I'll proven wrong).
|
| Zanan |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 12:16:39
I would expect a wild variety of accents and dialects within the various human and racial languages of the Realms. Rashemen and the Bloodstone Lands seems to have a Slavic touch, the Moonshae's a Welsh one etc.. Obviously, one should be clear about this here: we are talking about the accent of Common of those people, right? Not the languages themselves. As in deviations from "High Common", like deviations from RP/BBC English, High German et al?!
I for one regard Common as the Lingua Franca of the Realms and people who speak Aglarondan (e.g. Russian) may have no idea what a Rashemi (e.g. Czech) is babbling about, or a Shaaran (e.g. Mongolian) speaker. Likewise with a sun elf who is trying to talk to a wild elf or a drow. Different languages them all, so one has to spend points and time (sic!) learning them. |
| swifty |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 11:15:02
the worst case of an accent being used in the realms was in pools of darkness.one of banes minions says "you gotta get tough with these bums".certain accents work well within the realms but i haave a problem with a member of the nine hells sounding like joe pesci. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 00:51:29
Okay, I think we're kind of getting off-topic here. Let's return to the discussion of Realms Accents.
|
| swifty |
Posted - 27 Aug 2009 : 23:24:53
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
im from liverpool.no chance we will get it up here.
I'm from the Peak district originally.
You're right, Scouse is an accent that won't get shifted, which is a good thing! 
i think geordies safe as well. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 27 Aug 2009 : 16:09:47
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
im from liverpool.no chance we will get it up here.
I'm from the Peak district originally.
You're right, Scouse is an accent that won't get shifted, which is a good thing! |
| swifty |
Posted - 26 Aug 2009 : 22:57:24
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
being from england where there is a different accent every 20 miles
Although, Estuary English seems to be spreading its horrible sounds everywhere nowadays. I'm from England originally, I live in Germany now where the accents are as varied.
im from liverpool.no chance we will get it up here. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 26 Aug 2009 : 14:27:36
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
And sorry for further off-topicness, who is Leo X?
Pope Leo X would be my best guess, but I could be wrong.
Ah. I read Leo "eks" rather than Leo the Tenth. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 25 Aug 2009 : 16:38:43
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
being from england where there is a different accent every 20 miles
Although, Estuary English seems to be spreading its horrible sounds everywhere nowadays. I'm from England originally, I live in Germany now where the accents are as varied. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 25 Aug 2009 : 16:36:40
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
And sorry for further off-topicness, who is Leo X?
One of the Medici popes. Notable for being a patron of the arts, a thrower of lavish feasts and fond of dwarves as a source of entertainment. For some reason Martin Luther took exception to him. |
| swifty |
Posted - 24 Aug 2009 : 23:22:34
being from england where there is a different accent every 20 miles its not hard for me to picture different characters talkin different.it does seem though that every author gives a sailor a west country english accent.think of the capn from the simpsons.aaarrggghhh. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 24 Aug 2009 : 17:16:26
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
And sorry for further off-topicness, who is Leo X?
Pope Leo X would be my best guess, but I could be wrong. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 24 Aug 2009 : 11:58:31
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
(And if I were to DM a dwarf he'd speak with a german accent - at least if he was there for comic effect).
And when wouldn't a dwarf be there for comic effect?  After all, they were funny enough for Leo X.
Probably at the same time someone speaking Swedish with a German accent isn't there for comic effect - which would be my brother's wedding...
And sorry for further off-topicness, who is Leo X? |
| Raith |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 19:54:10
Thanks Azurous, this link is a big help! |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 13:12:41
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
(And if I were to DM a dwarf he'd speak with a german accent - at least if he was there for comic effect).
And when wouldn't a dwarf be there for comic effect? After all, they were funny enough for Leo X. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 13:09:21
quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
I have been wondering how would the non humans accents would sound like. For instance, what of Drow, Sun Elves, gold dwarves, duergar, etc.
They would probably have the same wide variety of accent that humans have. There is no reason to think that drow from the northern Underdark would sound like those from the south. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 11:42:38
Other than dwarves speaking "scottish" I haven't detected any pattern as to real-world accents being used for various parts of the realms - the halfling henchman in Neverwinter Nights who's from Calimport speaks with a "Movie-cockney"though.
(And if I were to DM a dwarf he'd speak with a german accent - at least if he was there for comic effect). |
| Auzoros |
Posted - 22 Aug 2009 : 07:51:36
This scroll has a few good ideas...
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4873&SearchTerms=real,world,similarities
I hope this helps. |
