| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| swifty |
Posted - 02 Apr 2009 : 13:49:58
i think i remember reading a similar topic over ras forum a couple of years ago but im bringing it up here because its something that really pees me off.namely how many years does it take drizzt to sleep with cattie brie from when wulfgar dies.they must spend the best part of 10 years eyeing each other up before anything happens.i we supposed to believe that a stunning young woman is going to spend the best part of a decade celibate.its not like they cant mention sex.eds books are full of it.for me it was just ridicoulous.
Mod edit: Subject changed to something that more accurately reflects the scroll's content.  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 14 Apr 2009 : 11:50:36
quote:
Originally posted by SeeDiGi
His age that's something else. Me personally I think that it's a little weird to date anyone who isn't your age or a year older/younger, but my town does have a lot of people so maybe that why.
Well there's more than enough people around me also, but I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject. In my opinion its weird to let anything like that get in the way of feelings. If both are adults and both are into the idea, its the most natural thing in the world. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 14 Apr 2009 : 08:24:00
quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
Well considering that Drizzt is only 150 or so which is roughly a quarter of his life span that would put what roughly @ 25-30 in human years? And Cattie-brie is closer to 40 now (3.5e) i would have to say that it is her being the cougar here.
Minor quibble: by my personal calculations, Drizzt was probably born in 1298 DR, and The Pirate King ended in early 1377 DR. That would make him roughly 79 years old.
Cat appears to have been born in late summer of 1334 DR, which would make her 42 years old in TPK. There have been conflicting age clues for her which would indicate slightly younger ages for her, but the earliest and greatest number of consistent age clues support this age. At any rate, yeah, she's the cougar here.
quote:
Originally posted by SeeDiGi
I think the Drizzt/Cattie Brie romance is creepy. Maybe not mentally but hes a lot older physically than she is. And he kind of was like an older brother or cousin to her for a long time.
By my calculations, Drizzt came to Icewind Dale and met young Cat in late 1345 DR (Sojourn). In The Halfling's Gem, late 1356 DR, Cat hints to Drizzt that there might have been a relationship between the two if he had just paid closer attention before Wulfgar worked his mojo. So Drizzt only had the "big brother" vibe in Cat's eyes for less than 11 years. There's been chemistry between them for much longer than that, since then.
We don't really even know when Cat first started digging on the bescimitared one. But it's reasonable to speculate that she could've started thinking of him differently sometime during her early teen years (1347 onward), just before Wulfgar ever came along (late 1350 DR, in The Crystal Shard). He met her when she was aged 11 in 1345 DR, so Drizzt might've had the big bro vibe for only a couple of years in her eyes, for all we know.
It would've been creepy for them back when she was young. But it ain't creepy now... |
| SeeDiGi |
Posted - 13 Apr 2009 : 23:10:38
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by SeeDiGi
I think the Drizzt/Cattie Brie romance is creepy. Maybe not mentally but hes a lot older physically than she is. And he kind of was like an older brother or cousin to her for a long time.
Why? Its not that difficult to have a relationship with age difference. Neither to get intimate with friends. I should know. The question of future mortality would probably be a bigger worry.
----
His age that's something else. Me personally I think that it's a little weird to date anyone who isn't your age or a year older/younger, but my town does have a lot of people so maybe that why. Drizzt always seemed like her uncle more than a friend. That is the weird part. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 21:13:23
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Why? Its not that difficult to have a relationship with age difference. Neither to get intimate with friends.
Seconded, on both counts. I don't think either issue is "a big deal" at all. |
| swifty |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 09:49:13
i just hope to god cb dosent make it to 4e.that would be such a cop out on the part of wotc.4e should be like a year zero for drizzt.new friends new enemies etc. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 09:31:05
quote:
Originally posted by SeeDiGi
I think the Drizzt/Cattie Brie romance is creepy. Maybe not mentally but hes a lot older physically than she is. And he kind of was like an older brother or cousin to her for a long time.
Why? Its not that difficult to have a relationship with age difference. Neither to get intimate with friends. I should know. The question of future mortality would probably be a bigger worry.
Then again, I don't follow the Drizzt series, so I have little to go on when it comes to this particular case. |
| Drizztsmanchild |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 05:11:22
Well considering that Drizzt is only 150 or so which is roughly a quarter of his life span that would put what roughly @ 25-30 in human years? And Cattie-brie is closer to 40 now (3.5e) i would have to say that it is her being the cougar here. |
| SeeDiGi |
Posted - 11 Apr 2009 : 04:12:35
I think the Drizzt/Cattie Brie romance is creepy. Maybe not mentally but hes a lot older physically than she is. And he kind of was like an older brother or cousin to her for a long time. |
| swifty |
Posted - 10 Apr 2009 : 22:32:48
man im so naive. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 02:55:51
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
arnt male drow given lessons in fellacio.alustriel was probably well up for it.quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Do we really need to explore that topic?
Well, given that the thread topic is the long time it takes for two characters to become physically intimate, I'd say that any prior intimacies of one of them could very well be relevant.
Unless it is explicitly against the Code of Conduct to explore that, but I noticed no sign of that.
It does, however, occur to me that poor swifty appears to have fallen into a trap laid by our long ago Latin brethren. Unless drow Matron Mothers have a particular reason for prefering male sexual activity be confined to homosexual oral intercourse, it is highly unlikely that drow males are trained in fellatio.
There's a handy dandy guide to the intricacies of Roman grammar of the sexual here:
http://books.google.is/books?id=1ZPC3TqBZEQC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=fellator irrumator&source=bl&ots=dtO5RZHmnp&sig=lyBqcyRw-kNMcWN6m3-Yoj4NgNw&hl=en&ei=rVTdSZGoOqKRjAea7emrDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2
The word swifty is looking for is 'cunnilungus'. And I'm not sure that training in it is universal among drow males, though I'm certain knowledge of it is fairly widespread.
Not that such training or lack thereof would, in my opinion, be all that important to Alustriel. Her sexual activity appears to be more of a bonding ritual and sharing of emotions than it is about the mechanics of it. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 00:19:00
Do we really need to explore that topic? |
| swifty |
Posted - 08 Apr 2009 : 23:09:03
arnt male drow given lessons in fellacio.alustriel was probably well up for it. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Apr 2009 : 19:19:59
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
On the other hand, based on the personality and history of Alustriel, one could say that it is likely that she at least made an attempt in that direction.
I don't doubt that she's done that, but Drizzt has mentioned more than once that they are just friends, and I see no reason not to believe him. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Apr 2009 : 16:23:26
If Drizzt turned her down, then he must be a closet-priestess.  |
| Icelander |
Posted - 06 Apr 2009 : 16:18:35
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Drizzt is better off having one-night-stands (I'm sure many ladies are Drow-curious), or going-in for booty-calls (like he does with Alustriel). Because of what and who he is, he really shouldn't be trying to form long-term attachments.
There's no real evidence that Drizzt's relationship with Alustriel is any way sexual.
Not evidence, as such, no.
On the other hand, based on the personality and history of Alustriel, one could say that it is likely that she at least made an attempt in that direction.
If Alustriel has any kind of relationship with someone, it is likely to be a sexual one. She's just that kind of Queen. 
Not to mention that Cattie-Brie seemed pretty convinced that her relationship with Drizzt wasn't purely platonic.
But it's still left up to the reader. I like to think Drizzt turned her down. Others will differ. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Apr 2009 : 15:48:38
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Drizzt is better off having one-night-stands (I'm sure many ladies are Drow-curious), or going-in for booty-calls (like he does with Alustriel). Because of what and who he is, he really shouldn't be trying to form long-term attachments.
There's no real evidence that Drizzt's relationship with Alustriel is any way sexual. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 05 Apr 2009 : 17:56:04
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
[quote]Originally posted by swifty
Drizzt was probably quite happy to keep polishing his scimitars during those ten years.
Polishing his scimitar... 
Seriously... by the time he finally decides to give her the time of day, she is pushing forty... nearly past the age of child-bearing (although the Realms seems to be more like our current world in that regard, then our world during it's medieval period).
I personally think bringing Wulfgar back was a HUGE mistake - it ruined the whole group dynamic for me. It also is VERY bad form to bring back dead characters, because it lessens what they do (why even worry about them in a fight?)
Think about it from Wulgar's point of view - he suffers in hell, and then comes back to find his girl sleeping with his best friend? No wonder he became an alchohalic! And Drizzt has so many enemies he's like a super-hero in that regard (well... in MANY regards...); he CAN'T get involved seriously with anyone because he then puts them at risk. Then again, Cattie was already close to him, so she was already in that high-risk category.
Drizzt is better off having one-night-stands (I'm sure many ladies are Drow-curious), or going-in for booty-calls (like he does with Alustriel). Because of what and who he is, he really shouldn't be trying to form long-term attachments. |
| swifty |
Posted - 05 Apr 2009 : 13:42:17
i wont be able to watch a high school movie now with out thinking of wulfgar when i see the token brain dead jock. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 04 Apr 2009 : 15:21:04
I'm inclined to agree. He's almost managed to single handedly rejuvenate my interest in the early Drizzt novels.
Almost. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Apr 2009 : 14:25:31
Good analysis, Icelander. |
| swifty |
Posted - 04 Apr 2009 : 11:36:38
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
(Drizzt met Cat in Sojourn when she was 11.)
I also recall a scene in The Halfling's Gem where Cat pulled Drizzt aside and told him that he had people who loved him, if he'd just let them in. She then remarks that it's too bad he let opportunities pass him by. There was obviously some chemistry there, on her part, for him. But Wulfgar was the one who actually showed interest for her, so he's the one that got her, at first. She settled for muscle-boy, though she probably would've preferred emo-boy, instead. Drizzt spent years playing catch-up.
muscle boy for emo boy.great line. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 04 Apr 2009 : 08:30:22
(Drizzt met Cat in Sojourn when she was 11.)
I also recall a scene in The Halfling's Gem where Cat pulled Drizzt aside and told him that he had people who loved him, if he'd just let them in. She then remarks that it's too bad he let opportunities pass him by. There was obviously some chemistry there, on her part, for him. But Wulfgar was the one who actually showed interest for her, so he's the one that got her, at first. She settled for muscle-boy, though she probably would've preferred emo-boy, instead. Drizzt spent years playing catch-up. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 19:54:04
Now, this question is really two-fold.
Of course, we all know the real reason for why it took all these years. It's because unresolved romantic tension (see http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlekmxl4p7e1yni) sells and authors are naturally reluctant to abandon such a comfortable source of drama and angst. After all, there was no guarantee readers would continue to like the series after the resolution of the major subplot.
But if we're looking for a more Realmsian/kayfabe/SoD-enabling explanation, we have to forget that there is an author and writers and that poor Bob would like to pay the rent and maybe afford some luxuries.
In that case, our explanation becomes a combination of several things. One, Drizzt and Catti-Brie were very comfortable as friends and understandably feared that they'd be less well equipped to handle anything more. Cattie-Brie had already experienced one failed love-affair that grew from friendship and she had to ask herself whether it would turn out any differently this time.
And let's not forget the inexperience of the people involved. Cattie-Brie had the one, failed relationship and Drizzt has none at all. Think back, people. How confident were you of your own ability to manage an adult relationship before you had any positive experiences in that area?
Remember also that sexual appetites, much like many other appetites, do not grow in a vacuum. A focus on something else, like, say, violence and adventure, can easily mean that sexual desire is markedly less than in other functioning adults with more typical interests. Drizzt lived as a monk, without much in the way of human contact, for pretty much a whole human lifetime. It's entirely plausible that his emotions for Cattie-Brie, while clearly romantic, were by no means as urgently physical as those of a man who had a more regular sex-life.
The same argument applies to Cattie-Brie, given that she spent most of her life in a dwarven mine. She was not starved for attention or affection, but there must have been few opportunities for a sexual awakening.
Upon consumating their relationship, of course, this neglected facet of their natures is given room to grow and expand. There's no reason to assume that just because they started out with their sex drives lower in priority than most of us are used to, it would be that way forever.
There is also the aspect of Drizzt's unhealthy prior life among the drow. Males are chattels among the drow and no matter how different he was, it is a bit unrealistic to assume that he would overcome decades of indoctrination without any teething troubles. Drizzt doesn't know how to express love or desire to a woman because not only has he never done it, he had never seen it done before coming to the surface. Males expressing sexual desire to a female were showing subservience and hoping for favours. As such, Drizzt may subconsciously shy away from such displays, even though in his case they would be genuine and not calculated attempts to rise in drow hierarchy. |
| bishopssix |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 18:52:28
Maybe I'm just a prude then. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 17:59:30
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by bishopssix
No one else thinks it's messed up to take your friends girl after he's dead.....?
Not at all, I have no problem with that. And if there are two people involved one can hardly say that one of them takes the other.
Agreed, totally. No one knew Wulfgar was eventually going to come back, and besides, feelings are dynamic. After Wulfgar died, Cattie-brie realized she had feelings for Drizzt--so, they became a couple. *shrug* I don't see a problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Seriously, I think the main reasons have been said, he first met her when she was a little girl, she's his friend's adopted daughter and the widow of his other friend, who happens to be a big northern barbarian type.
I wouldn't say Cattie-brie was Wulfgar's widow. They were planning to be married, but that never happened, and they didn't ever consider each other a "married couple" (unlike Cattie-brie and Drizzt, who do call each other husband and wife, even if they aren't actually married yet).
quote:
Drizzt could also be asexual and have little interest in underblanket capers.
Eh, we now have proof that that is not the case. He has slept with Cattie-brie in the more recent novels, and he seems to enjoy it. |
| Aureus |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 17:19:42
Or perhaps he's got quite a problem with sex because the first woman wanting to bed with him was his big sister who had done all the work raising him as his fostermother, now that's creepy!  (Her wanting to bed with him was due to her inability to distinguish between love and lust, an inability due to the drow way of life. Poor girl, I pity her , what she actually was trying to say was:"I love you" because I don't think that incest isn't an big issue among drow) |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 16:50:54
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
how many years does it take drizzt to sleep with cattie brie from when wulfgar dies.they must spend the best part of 10 years eyeing each other up before anything happens.
Drizzt was probably quite happy to keep polishing his scimitars during those ten years.
Seriously, I think the main reasons have been said, he first met her when she was a little girl, she's his friend's adopted daughter and the widow of his other friend, who happens to be a big northern barbarian type.
Drizzt could also be asexual and have little interest in underblanket capers. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 15:41:55
quote:
Originally posted by bishopssix
No one else thinks it's messed up to take your friends girl after he's dead.....?
Not at all, I have no problem with that. And if there are two people involved one can hardly say that one of them takes the other. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 11:32:55
quote:
Originally posted by bishopssix
No one else thinks it's messed up to take your friends girl after he's dead.....?
I guess it depends on many factors. Its easier if you know your friend would want his girl to be happy once he is gone (of course, in RL, he wouldn't come back, whereas in the Realms, death can be reversed...but still...) I think in their situation, sailing on a ship for a decade or whatever ammount of time, it might have been acceptable after a solid 5 years. |
| bishopssix |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 07:31:35
No one else thinks it's messed up to take your friends girl after he's dead.....?
|
