| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 18 Mar 2009 : 06:11:40
Where is its 'center'? I know that the Eternal Order is HQ'd in Ireabor, but what about the Church itself? I had thought Waterdeep, mostly due to the Necropoli there, feeling that the Kelemvorites would be intrigued by that sort of thing, but (to be honest) it was mostly b/c I couldn't think of anywhere better. I think the Bloodstone lands make a fair choice, what with all the undead-ness there, not to mention that with a war every 6.3 minutes, there's alot of interring to be done.
Any thoughts on titles for differing hierarchies of the Church? I'm usually pretty good at coming up with these sorts of things, but for Special K(I call him 'special K', he calls me 'Foolish Mortal'), I just can't do it. Everything I try sounds like either a preist of Myrkul (High Cryptmaster) or some sort of menses-obsessed maniac (Guardian of the Cycle) .
One final query: In the current year (1374) how many devoted (as in having Cleric, Pal, Ranger, or FS levels) worshippers would he have, after only 15 years of divinity? Not a specific number, obviously, but is it a big faith?
OK, that's 3 questions in one thread: I'll wait until these are answered to ask the other stuff.
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| 24 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 Mar 2009 : 09:43:56
Noble Knight.Com. Thats where I got my copies of Faith and Avatars, and Powers and Pantheons. Had the third book already. Got it from the local Half-Priced Book Store. 
Thanks Sage, I really like that place. 
BRIMSTONE |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 23 Mar 2009 : 03:46:48
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
You and me both. Jergal is such an intriguing God. Seems like 4ed has quite the lack of 'em.
That's what you get for playing $e... 
I would only be able to assume as much. Cuz I don't. I just read the handbooks so I can keep my writing current. |
| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 23 Mar 2009 : 03:41:08
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
You and me both. Jergal is such an intriguing God. Seems like 4ed has quite the lack of 'em.
That's what you get for playing $e... |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 16:29:42
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Ghost King: Thanks for the flag... IMO, the 'portfolios' section of the Jergal entry is off a bit. Jergal concerns itself with keeping an orderly roll of the deaths of all sentient beings, their cause of death and place of interment. The portfolios you mention were (again, IMO) more his role while Myrkul was Death; now it is just Kelemvor's scribe and advisor.
Which is not to say that the clergy of Jergal wouldn't inter a corpse, but rather that Kel's people would bury it, and Jergal's would do the paperwork.
For the record, I have a huge man-crush on Jergal. Or is that a bug/otherwordly/cthulu-esqe-beast from the outer dark crush? I dunno.
You and me both. Jergal is such an intriguing God. Seems like 4ed has quite the lack of 'em. |
| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 14:00:56
Ghost King: Thanks for the flag... IMO, the 'portfolios' section of the Jergal entry is off a bit. Jergal concerns itself with keeping an orderly roll of the deaths of all sentient beings, their cause of death and place of interment. The portfolios you mention were (again, IMO) more his role while Myrkul was Death; now it is just Kelemvor's scribe and advisor.
Which is not to say that the clergy of Jergal wouldn't inter a corpse, but rather that Kel's people would bury it, and Jergal's would do the paperwork.
For the record, I have a huge man-crush on Jergal. Or is that a bug/otherwordly/cthulu-esqe-beast from the outer dark crush? I dunno. |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 06:34:51
Then I say let's let Jergal and Cyric throw down. Let's let them have it out and let Jergal suck up that whackjob's portfolio and bring Mask back to life.
Let's get it on!
Oh...ahem. Let's go back to topic. |
| Ghost King |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 06:16:14
Yup as an exarch. Still buddy buddy in the Fugue Plane. Creepin' it up the only way he knows how. |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 06:10:45
I loved me some Jergal. Is he still around in 4e?
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| Ghost King |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 06:05:44
I know that this may be redundant, but I figured it would be something worth pointing out. I don't have the older editions books on specific deities, but from the Faiths and Pantheons Jergal has the portfolio proper burial and guardian of tombs. Perhaps a joint effort is used by these churches (maybe in secret) to giving those people there teaching in proper burials for this cathedral being made if you go through with that idea.
Just a thought I had when I saw you bring that up.
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| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 05:20:25
I've actually been really impressed with my PCs in this regard, Mark: the Cleric/Doomguide has focused on giving decent burials to all in accordance with their faith in life(even monsters, when possible) whereas the Paladin of Kel in the party focuses on 1)killing undead, 2)protecting the cleric and 3)killing more undead. Also, killing undead. She has a sunblade, a great many smites, and is very good (as I may have made clear) at the killing undead aspect of her devotions. I can't put anything with the undead template in front of them and expect it to live for a full round. Which would have been OK, had I not just run them through CotSQ, where everything is undead. She only needed the rest of the party to guard her while she rested to regain smites. It was horrific.
When I accused her of being a mindless tank, she gave me a well-ordered dissertation on why she kills undead, and how it is compassion driving her, rather than hatred- she doesn't see it as killing, she sees it as healing- and she finds divine ecstacy in the act, which she role-plays. So, of course the rest of the party (the non-K worshippers)see her taking delight in all the rotting carnage, are convinced that she's a sociopath, and avoid anything that might anger her in the least.
Back on topic, thanks for the insight, Mark- it sounds right to me. So I'd guess that would lead to a ratio of say 90/10 of 'mortician' to 'adventurer'. Does that sound about right? Actually, this gives me an awesome idea: the PC cleric in question is under orders to build the first cathedral to Kelemvor. I think it's going to be a school for funereal rites... I'm envisioning the Sandman story in the inn about the undertakers from Necropolis. Good stuff Mark, and thanks (yet) again.
EDIT: Arion, I've thought about doing some kind of psychopomp feat or substitution levels for worshippers of K, along the lines of what you were thinking (i.e. shepherding the sould to the Fugue) |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 05:19:59
Too true, Markustay. I can imagine a cleric of the faith almost entirely focused on studying funerary rites. In fact, I could see a prestige class coming from that aspect, one that would even allow the cleric to commune with devas, demons and the like in order to speed a soul along.
This thread reminds me that I once had a PC in one of my games ask me if she could take Profession: Undertaker. The skill ended up being INSANELY useful, as it gave her intimate knowledge of anatomy, preserving organs and biological chemicals (I granted her synergy bonuses from Heal, etc). Ahh, memories. Creepy, creepy memories. :D
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| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 03:01:01
I always imagined that Kelemvor would be one of the few gods that would have a temple in every sizable settlement, and perhaps several in places like Waterdeep.
You see, Kelemvor's Temples are Funeral Parlors - the town Undertaker is also a cleric of Kelemvor. He would also - as part of his dicipline - learn the Funery rites of every other major religion, just in case there is no priest of the deceased's faith at hand (in order to conduct the proper ceremony - a priest of Kelemvor would be the ONLY Faerūnian priests who performs rituals to other gods on a regular basis).
Ergo, most of his clergy would be morticians, which in a fantasy setting also have the responosibility of making sure the dead STAY DEAD. This would be the sedentary NPCs priest. PC priests of Kelemvor would be the ones who actively seek-out those that deny death (Undead), and bring them their final rest. |
| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 01:43:44
Thanks loads, Wooly: I will take you at your word about the quality of the three 2E books and pick the up ASAP. Again, many thanks, all. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 01:37:18
From page 86 of Faiths & Avatars:
quote:
The only major center of Kelemvorite worship thus far is the Tower of Skulls in Ormath, an abbey built as a ziggurat whose walls are carved with a stone facing in the shape of staring human skulls. Its spiral ways are roamed by mysterious guardian creatures that resemble will o' wisps.
You could pull DM fiat, though, and drop a newer one anywhere you need it to be -- the book is a bit out of date.
About titles, from page 85:
quote:
Specialty priests of Kelemvor are known as doomguides. The church has not been in existence long enough to develop even an informal consensus about the usage of titles.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 01:25:59
The problem with the "Where is the main faith based" question is that a lot of FR deities don't have a main area/base. They are spread out and some of the temples don't even follow what the other temples do...... So, I think, for me, it would be hard to give you a straight answer because its rare that one temple/nation/etc is considered to be THE area for the clergy. |
| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 00:59:24
Thanks, Wooly: I did indeed misread your initial post: I guess I'll have to scour Amazon and Ebay for those tomes: As I've (after reading Power of Faerun) already decided that I need Heroes of Battle, maybe I can get a break on shipping for the lot of them.
Having just come back to gaming after a 6 year hiatus, there are alot of books I'll be needing to replace: I'm very much wishing I had managed to get back all the 2E books I 'loaned' out to pals over the years and never saw again.
Back on topic: Wooly, can you (or anyone else) answer the 'where is the faith based' aspect of the question? I'm assuming it's Ireabor, but it'd be nice to know for sure and what the status of the church is in that city.
Thanks to all for help. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 19:50:37
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Thanks Wooly- I have F+P, but wanted to see what other DMs were using. And Arion, I think I will be using most of your titles. I'll post a list of the hierarchy I'm using in a bit.
I assume, by "F+P", you mean Faiths & Pantheons. That's not the book I'm referring to. Faiths & Avatars was part of a trilogy of deity books released in 2E. Those books are far more informative than the single 3E deity book.
Any deific question I have, I reach for Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities, whichever is appropriate. Faiths & Pantheons is good, but it simply can't compare to the earlier books. |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 18:57:00
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Thanks Wooly- I have F+P, but wanted to see what other DMs were using. And Arion, I think I will be using most of your titles. I'll post a list of the hierarchy I'm using in a bit.
Sounds great! And I truly love F&P - it's my favorite source book, always has a place at the table. But sometimes it's better to consider the sources as a skeleton, like a play script, and flesh the animal out on your own. |
| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 18:11:03
Thanks Wooly- I have F+P, but wanted to see what other DMs were using. And Arion, I think I will be using most of your titles. I'll post a list of the hierarchy I'm using in a bit. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 06:26:52
His entry in Faiths & Avatars answers a lot of the questions here... |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 06:09:30
How about the clergy referring to Kelemvor as "our Lord of merciful slumber"? I mean usually one wouldn't want emphasize something that brings to mind hordes of zombies... |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 04:46:37
Just outta curiousity, lemme know if you use any of the names. I like knowing something I thought up works its way into campaigns far far away. |
| Knight of the Gate |
Posted - 18 Mar 2009 : 18:32:42
Thanks for the input Arion. Agreement on most points: I can't see the church 'wasting' scrying trying to find death, not when it's all around you. I think that they'd be just as likely to pick a direction and walk.
I do like the rest though. I'm not sure why K's church eludes me so much. I'm generally pretty good at the world-building aspect of DMing, but not with this. Thanks again.
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| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 18 Mar 2009 : 06:26:41
My favorite tenet of Kelemvor is the concept that death is natural, and that they are to "let none die a natural death without a priest of Kelemvor at their side". It's incredibly ambitious and more than a little ego-centric. :)
I think that an order ENTIRELY committed to seeking out those near a natural death via scrying or simply searching the Realms in order to comfort them and school their families in the Paths Beyond would be likely. I would imagine a healthy little competition in the church between them and the more undead-hunting type of Kelemvorite (Kelemvorian?).
And in this DM's world, the church is indeed large, as a huge number of followers flocked to the church after the Time of Troubles. Faerun was eager for a God of Death that, unlike his forebearers, was capable of organizing the Land of the Dead and ensuring loved ones a better rest.
As for heirarchy names: Restbringer, Cowled Repose, Grand Scythe, Mercy, Grand Mercy, High Mercy, High Bereaver, Mercylord (as in 'LORD HAVE MERCY!' :D) |
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