| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Baragon Geddarm |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 15:43:08
So, I've been thinking (Which normally sets off alarms as it's not always a good thing), which direction would you have (Or have you already) taken the Realms instead of where 4e went?
I'm curious because I'm beginning to waiver. Now I'm not a hardcore fan of the new 4e Realms. However, I do think I am open minded to change and decided to try and give it the benefit of the doubt. While not wowed initially (There were some aspects I liked), I hoped future suppliments (Now discovering there may not be save for DDI) might help to aleviate this feeling I began to have about it. A feeling that began to compund the more I began to take in other opinions regarding the new Realms.
Though do note, I do not hate 4e in general. In fact, every one of my players (including the hardcore all editions D&D hater enjoys it and is currently using it for an IK campaign [And no, he's not an MMO player]). Also, while I would like to think I have a vast knowledge base of FR material, I don't have the brainpower to commit alot to memory. So if some of the things I think might work go against hardcore canon, let me know. Open minded and all ^_^
So now, my curiosity is piquing and I've begun to question how I might have done things differently.
1. A jump of 10-20 years would have been a bit better to allow for changes to happen.
2. To explain the system changes in 4e (namely magic), rather than off Mystra (A task that seem to come with the job yet Ao keeps forgetting to put on the job description when he hires a new goddess), why not somehow have Shar and Cyric somehow imprison her (Realizing killing her would have some detrimental effects) which ends up having a weakening effect on the weave (Since she's not dead, just 'missing'). Spellcasters are forced to rely on foci to better channel the weave due to it's weakening and barriers between dimensions like the Feywild (And maybe even Aebir without having to yank it into the realms (If you're a fan of the Dragonborn that is)) begin to weaken (explain the changes to Moon Elves and Sun elves.)
3. Keep the pantheon. I admit, while a trimmed pantheon is a bit cleaner, I'm a big fan of my three 2e FR gods books. Sure, some changes could occur. some gods re-invent themselves. But there's nothing wrong with they way it is IMO.
4. If the Spellplague is something you like (Or Sellplague as I heard someone mention it as. Kinda funny), why not have something happen to the zones (some if not all) of wild magic. Have them somehow change into pockets of the plague without making the plague to be some kind of magic hungry swarm of loucusts roaming the countryside.
There could be more ideas as time goes on. But I'm curious how others are changing things in their own way (And what folks think if my few minor changes). |
| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 00:52:08
The campaign I started over ten years ago had already moved past the "current" non-spellplague year with the following changes:
Tethyamar was refounded and has actually claimed a great deal of the Desertsmouth Mts and Daggerdale.
Cormanthor has become an Empire again (I used something similar to the Eladrin theme from the Feywild, but the Elves were just that: elves who immigrated en masse to the Realms). It is ruled by an Elf named Caelcormac who used Realm Magic to actually "Polymorph" many thousands of Dalesmen into Elves as well...not to mention some hapless Zhents. That caused a few things that don't need to be included here...
The Border Forest was also reinhabited by elves...of the Wild and Wood variety...and they actually are beholden to the Fey Queen.
There is a Kingdom of Orcs...but in Thar where the Grey Orcs have a history of such things alongside the ogres...they are ruled by Orcish Werewolves; which makes them really nasty but also chaotic.
Ironically, Sembia in my game fell to chaos and lost western cities to Cormyr...the rest is beholden to either Elven or Shade masters and conflict is ongoing there.
Speaking of Shade, it mainly lost in my campaign. I didn't see that the single City of Shade had the military might to refound Netheril. The city actually decided to move south to Halruaa where it caused much tension among its cousins in that nation. Many Shades remained in the Moonsea/Heartlands area however.
Shar is GONE in my campaign. Her portfolio was subsumed by an upstart godling who as a Demi-God was "Lord of Abberations and Alien Things" and so his thinking was unknown to "Normal" Gods (that was his Portfolio power). His manipulations pitted Shar against Mystra and resulted in betrayal which allowed Mystra to subsume the Shadow Weave and heal her own weave...leaving only one god of magic in my Forgotten Realms (and no unintended wild or dead magic areas). This godling, The Darkflame, with Mystra's aid replaced Shar...enough on that (the rest is in a secret still in my home game).
Cormyr is much like in the "New Realms" but also rules Westgate and Darkhold...with much settlement in the Goblin Marches/Stoneland. It is currently ruled by Tanalasta (sp?) as Queen Monarch and a character from the party as King Consort (though the guy doesn't play any longer...and I personally don't like him any longer...his character was fitting for the role). Cormyr in my game is verging on an Imperial Power now...but from need and not outright desire. "Better to offer our protection than allow innocents to die in darkness..." were the words used by Queen Tanalasta.
Chessenta is actually united into the Kingdom of Akanax. I always say the men of Akanax as MY version of the Spartans...so they have finally subdued Chessenta and now wage war against Mulhorand in the ruins of Unther....but in my game Mulhorand is becoming severely weakened and under pressure from a strong Semphar that found itself ruled by a large number of joined Semphar/Tuigan families. The union of Semphar and the Tuigan is essentially like the time of Tamerlane to me for my Realms.
Thay has conquered Thesk in my game...I never understood with their expansionist desires what would keep a magical power like Thay from taking this relatively weak land.
Thay is at odds against a powerful "Impiltur League" consisting of Impiltur (now containing the Vast too), the Witch Kingdom of Aglorand (still ruled by the Simbul...but with many Sister Witches acting on her order) and of course the Rashemar.
I also brought about the Kingdom of Balduran (Baldur's Gate) which is ruled by King Eltan's son (the Flaming Fist took over in my game and...)
These are the major geo-political things...and of course that Shar is gone.
As for other Pantheon related things:
Added The Darkflame...who took over both Shar and Cyric (did bring back Bane who got most of Cyric's portfolio, with The Darkflame taking Madness and giving Illusions to Mystra). The Darkflame essentially has it bad for Mystra and, while evil, is not an enemy of Mystra really...but hates Lathander with a passion.
No A-Gods (of Hell or the Sun) in my game...although the Darkflame did impersonate a deity of the Sun in Chessenta and set the City of Akanax on the path he wanted it to go.
Gargauth is gone...replaced EARLY on in our game by the position of The Darkflame (who was early on an outer-planar deal maker). Gargauth was actually defeated several times by the mortal that would become the Darkflame; but of course never killed. Shar aided him in this task...thus the later treason on his part by helping Mystra defeat Shar.
Lolth is a Greater God in my game...but related to her is the loss of Tlindhet (sp?) and what few clerics she had in Dambrath...that nation is now dominated by Fiend Worshiping (demons and devils) and in a state of perpetual civil war.
The Dwarven and Orcish Pantheons are in open war at the moment...but the Elven Pantheon is not aiding. The war was started by Moradin for yet to be known reasons...it is currently waged only in the Planes however...
wow...that's all I can remember off the top of my head...
I intend to play in the New Realms...but only because that will be the Forgotten Realms of my children.
Now, I REALLY need to get back to working on my 1st Edition AD&D game set in Melvaunt before what few players I have behead me and leave the game!
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| Jakk |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 00:46:04
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'd allow that the Spellplague happened and Mystra died, because that alone is a pretty nifty way to change everything players know about magic, and reset quite a few other aspects of the world.
The Spellplague would be a one-day effect, with some 'aftershocks' for a few weeks, and then GONE.
And what's your take on its effects on Halruaa? Not to mention Thay... why didn't Thay get nuked off the map like Halruaa did in canon 4E? They've probably explained that unconvincingly somewhere... 
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And absolutely NO ridiculous Abeir - thats going to go down in RPG history as the worst idea eva!!!
And it serves NO purpose... <sigh>
Actually, it serves an important purpose, from the point of view of the people in charge of design decisions: It completely bollixes up Ed's plans for Anchorome and Katashaka, which would have negated blowing up Faerun. Why create when you can destroy?
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That makes 1386 DR one of the most interesting years in Torillian history, and one hell of a hoot to play in. 
Definitely. Sounds very intriguing. I'm making the Red Wizards a bigger threat in my campaign too, particularly now with Szass Tam in sole control.  |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 23:10:17
the spell plague never happend
eilistraee never died
lathander does become amuanator
sehanine and selune are 2 different dieties
yondalla and chauntea are separate dieities.
and the mulohandi pantheon is gone
more to come later |
| Markustay |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 23:05:07
I'd allow that the Spellplague happened and Mystra died, because that alone is a pretty nifty way to change everything players know about magic, and reset quite a few other aspects of the world.
The Spellplague would be a one-day effect, with some 'aftershocks' for a few weeks, and then GONE. And absolutely NO ridiculous Abeir - thats going to go down in RPG history as the worst idea eva!!!
And it serves NO purpose... <sigh>
That makes 1386 DR one of the most interesting years in Torillian history, and one hell of a hoot to play in. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 00:40:09
quote:
Originally posted by Baragon Geddarm
So, I've been thinking (Which normally sets off alarms as it's not always a good thing), which direction would you have (Or have you already) taken the Realms instead of where 4e went?
<chop>
First of all, thinking always sets off alarms in a corporate setting. Thinking is how you get noticed. If there's a vacancy in management, thinking will get you sacked (because otherwise, they'd have to promote you, and they really don't want thinkers there). If there's no vacancy, you're safe, as long as you don't talk about thinking. 
Second, it doesn't surprise me to hear that you have a general D&D hater who likes 4E. Most of the hardcore D&D players since 1E I've talked to say they can't stand 4E. 4E is "D&D for people who don't like D&D". I like the game system; it's just not the right one for D&D, so stop calling the game that. 
Third, your points and what I did in my campaign:
1. That's the kind of time jump I'm using, by accident; we already had an ongoing campaign set around 1390DR, so this explains some of the following points... but I wouldn't touch the $ellplague with anything short of a sphere of annihilation.
2. I like your take on it. In my revision, Shar and Cyric try to kill Mystra, but Azuth, Savras, and Velsharoon don't just stand around dumbstruck; the three of them attack Cyric while Shar and Mystra square off. Mystra sends a call out to her Chosen, and while magic is going haywire during the struggle between Mystra and Shar, the Chosen infuse their silver fire into the Shadow Weave, absorbing it into the Weave and weakening Shar enough to allow Mystra to prevail, punting Shar and Cyric back to their home realms. No $ellplague, just a milder version of the magical chaos seen during the Time of Troubles. Since I'm not using 4E, I didn't need to explain a change in the magic system. Much easier.
For the new races (not really an issue, since I'm not using 4E, but I like the dragonborn), I have had the dragonborn originate from Anchorome, the original land across the Trackless Sea from Waterdeep. Around this time, the dragonborn move south and overrun Maztica, sending the colonists from Amn fleeing back across the Trackless Sea. I've done other things to Amn, Tethyr, and Calimshan too, but I've talked about those elsewhere. Search the board for the words "Amn Tethyr Calimshan" in posts by me if you're interested.
3. If you're keeping the pantheon, there's no reason to mess with the planar structure at all. Keep the planes as they are in 3E. The only pantheon changes I kept were the demise of the Mulhorandi and Untheric pantheons, explained by a lot of deicide in the South, the details of which I have placed under NDA for the moment. The new Imaskari realm conquers Mulhorand and Unther in short order due to their dead or weakened deities, the last of whom are slain in this invasion.
4. Already solved; there is no $ellplague. (Not my term; coined by another of the regulars here, but I like it, esp. with the $)
I won't comment on my thoughts regarding the 4E core changes, because I see that as being off-topic here, and I've commented on that at length in the Core Rules section.
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| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 15:59:55
Let's see...
The first thing is that after my group finishes the Anauroch adventure, I'm sending them off to prevent the Spellplague from happening by exploiting Shar's weakness (mentioned in all the adventures plus Paul S. Kemp's trilogy). After that, the world is wide open. Probably figure someway to 'ground' the city of Shade, either by having it no longer be floating and the shades lose a lot of their top players, or by returning Selunnara to balance it out. I like the shades as villains on the whole, but they are waaaaay more powerful than I'd want in the Realms. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 15:52:27
Well, just about everything that happened on the timeline after 1375 DR "never happened" in my Realms unless it was very minor (ie. Fox-at-Twilight crawls out of Negarath--nothing earthshattering, so I keep it). However, I've deleted many "major events" from before that date as well, or toned them down.
I like the 4E rules, but I'd rather just use them in a different setting, I think. |
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