| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 18:05:30
Here’s the first installment of my Monday Musings series. Special thanks go out to Erik Scott de Bie for helping me clear up a couple of issues, and to Ed Greenwood for giving this piece and the project overall a hearty thumbs-up. For more information about the series and the ground rules, please check this thread.
Author’s note: Use of the collective "elves," "Fair Folk," and "People" (in capitalized form) in this text refer to the elven peoples as a whole prior to the Descent, and to both elves and eladrin after than event.
Please have fun with this information, and feel free to modify it as necessary to fit your own conception of the Realms. That is, after all, the point.
|
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 16 Nov 2008 : 08:37:59
-This is good stuff. 
BRIMSTONE  |
| Jakk |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 03:53:21
Speaking as a dedicated fan of the pre-Spellplague Realms, with about as much inertia as a galactic-core black hole, this is the first post-Spellplague lore I've read about *changes* (completely "new" things such as Returned Abeir, etc. aside) that actually makes coherent sense. I wish I had more time to comment, but I need to eat. Now. :) |
| Thalos_Milathriel |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 03:06:30
Nicely done. I look forward to more whenever you have time to post it.
Thanks. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 04:58:01
Heh, I'm doing my job and someone else's at work this week, as well as running a Pathfinder Society Event tomorrow, but once things calm down a bit this weekend, I'll certainly be sending you an e-mail. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 04:50:36
Fascinating stuff, KEJR--I wonder if you and I couldn't trade emails on the subject and play around with it?
Email me!
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Garen and Erik's comments about Corellon's heart and who stole what reminded me of some aspects of that train of thought . . .
Who, me? Was it the Lolth thing? 'Cuz that was totally a joke. (hail Lolth!)
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'd still like to see some of the lesser Seldarine gods addressed, but I realize that they might still be mentioned in some other capacity. Then again, I'm a fan of some of the extended Seldarine from the 2nd edition Dragon articles on the subject.
Well, I happen to be a big Erevan Ilesere fan, so given the opportunity . . . 
Cheers |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 04:04:42
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Not to spoil the lovely mood created by everyone's praise (which is, frankly, a tiny bit overwhelming), I'd like to pose a couple of questions of my own:
1) Given the existing lore (3E AND 4E), what might folks have done differently?
and
2) What questions do you have about the state of the Seldarine in 1479DR that weren't adequately addressed by the Musing?
I'd still like to see some of the lesser Seldarine gods addressed, but I realize that they might still be mentioned in some other capacity. Then again, I'm a fan of some of the extended Seldarine from the 2nd edition Dragon articles on the subject. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 04:02:26
I had, a while back, posited that Corellon might have been a powerful member of the Seelie court in ages long past, and that his rivalry with Grummsh actually dated back to Grummsh being a general of the Queen of Air and Darkness' in the Unseelie Court. Garen and Erik's comments about Corellon's heart and who stole what reminded me of some aspects of that train of thought . . .
My theory, back then, was that Corellon might have been a typical Seelie noble, not evil, maybe even kind of good, but not concerned about the mortal realms or the grand scheme of things, until he had a tryst with Morwel of the Eladrin Court, and she introduced him to the larger concerns of the fledgling mortal souls in the universe, and of the conflict between Good and Evil, and it changed his perspective.
(As an aside, Corellon gave birth to the elves when some of his Sidhe died in battle with Grummsh's minions, and his tears brought them back to life as elves . . . Grummsh had Shargass steal some of the souls of the dead and he used them to breathe life into the dead corpses of the Sidhe of the battlefield, and thus the orcs were born . . . but I digress)
Anyway, it keeps nagging at me that my theory about Morwel and Corellon and Corellon's transition from a Seelie noble to a god, and the exodus of his followers from the Seelie court has to be able to be wrapped into the current scheme of things, but I just can't find the right "bridge" to explain it and make it all fall into place.
|
| Askanipsion |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 01:17:07
I have the "official" description on who Angharradh really is in 4E as I asked both Rich Baker and Bruce Cordell. Here is what I said and Bruce's reply:
Askanipsion said...
Hiya Bruce
I recently asked a question to Rich Baker on the WOTC forums. He wasn't sure about the answer but suggested I ask you. So here is my question that I wondered if you could please help me with.
I was wondering if you could explain the 4E version of Angharradh. In older editions, she was formed when 3 goddesses merged. Now that 2 of the goddesses have been revealed to actually be Sune and Akadi, who is Angharradh??
Is she still 3 goddesses merged or a single minded entity? Could she be the moon-less aspect of Sehanine?
Thanks Bruce!
- Askanipsion
Bruce said...
To the extent Angharradh remains an active presence, she is a manifestation of these goddesses (Selune, Sune, and Akadi; primordial in Akadi's case) and their mutual adoration for Corellon and love of the elven people. She hasn't been seen much lately, however ;-).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
So what is Angharradh up to? Why hasn't she been seen much lately?? I was kinda hoping she was just Sehanine who shed her moon domain to Selune.
Oh well.....
|
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 00:30:08
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Just a quick comment. If you get to Finder and decide to remove him from play (Permanently), could you at least give him one great heroic moment so he can be remembered. Rich said he was going to be an Exarch of Tymora or Oghma, but this was before the final product. I would like him to live, but it doesn't seem likely.
Given that I consider the Wyvernspurs (in particular Giogi, Cat and Finder) to be proprietary characters of Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak, it's unlikely that I'll be covering Finder at all. I may mention Finder in passing, but I won't comment on his final fate just now, because I don't feel as though it's mine to determine.
quote:
Also I can see the Mulhordi Pantheon being transported to Abeir, so what effect would that have on them.
I'll be getting to the Mulhorandi pantheon next week, unless something else comes up in the interim. It will touch on their fates, both as divinities and as legendary figures in the Realms, not all of whom (so far as their former worshipers are concerned) are entirely gone... |
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 22:12:11
Just a quick comment. If you get to Finder and decide to remove him from play (Permanently), could you at least give him one great heroic moment so he can be remembered. Rich said he was going to be an Exarch of Tymora or Oghma, but this was before the final product. I would like him to live, but it doesn't seem likely.
Also I can see the Mulhordi Pantheon being transported to Abeir, so what effect would that have on them. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 21:58:56
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Not to spoil the lovely mood created by everyone's praise (which is, frankly, a tiny bit overwhelming), I'd like to pose a couple of questions of my own:
1) Given the existing lore (3E AND 4E), what might folks have done differently?
and
2) What questions do you have about the state of the Seldarine in 1479DR that weren't adequately addressed by the Musing?
1) nothing
2) None, I found your work more than adequate, time for more of your musings! |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 19:19:32
Not to spoil the lovely mood created by everyone's praise (which is, frankly, a tiny bit overwhelming), I'd like to pose a couple of questions of my own:
1) Given the existing lore (3E AND 4E), what might folks have done differently?
and
2) What questions do you have about the state of the Seldarine in 1479DR that weren't adequately addressed by the Musing? |
| Eremite |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 10:25:06
Magnificent!
This is truly an outstanding and inspired piece of work. Well done and thanks for sharing so selflessly. |
| scererar |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 03:24:25
This is excellent. Thanks for taking time to post. Keep it up |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 01:12:44
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Ahh, but Araunshee was Corellon's first consort. She didn't steal Corellon from from anyone; she betrayed Corellon and lost his affections, which thereafter turned to more loyal elven goddesses...
Grr. Those pointy-eared home-wreckers.
(All Hail Lolth!)
Ahem. Sorry.
Cheers |
| Rafe Hasbrouck |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 01:11:46
Thanks for the great read! Looking forward to the next installment. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 21:16:54
quote:
Originally posted by Vangelor
Then again, I also have my own notion of whom Araushnee stole Corellon's heart from, and it wasn't Hanali... 
Ahh, but Araunshee was Corellon's first consort. She didn't steal Corellon from from anyone; she betrayed Corellon and lost his affections, which thereafter turned to more loyal elven goddesses... |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 21:05:55
Nice adaptation for those moving on into 4e.
But in my campaign, I cannot imagine my green elves following Silvanus. If Rillifane were to withdraw from activity, their devotion would pass to Emmantiensien, the Treant-King, as they are far more engaged with the fey than with short-lived humans.
Then again, I also have my own notion of whom Araushnee stole Corellon's heart from, and it wasn't Hanali... |
| GRYPHON |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 18:33:25
Nice work... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 15:34:05
Well, at least now we have one possible explanation as to why the heck Angarradh still exists. |
| Wandering_mage |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 15:24:03
This is brilliant! I am e-mailing this link to my players. You have my thanks Garen. |
| Nerfed2Hell |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 15:21:05
Oh no, I get it... I was just stating that, while I don't like the changes brought on by the D&D 4e or the post-spellplague FR, I liked this bit of lore (one piece of it, anyhow) and how I can use to to improve my own 3e campaign. My comment wasn't about tearing down the new edition or how the whole of this lore as presented was written... and I wanted to take something --everything about 4e as a whole-- that I consider a negative and take something positive from it for my own campaign. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 15:12:36
quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
The only thing I like (no offense, 3e only fan here) about that lore is Hanali being discreetly replaced by Sune as it gives me an excuse to allow CG elven paladins in my campaign under the same exception provided for Sune.
Aside from that, Aerdrie will still be her own goddess and Sehanine won't have remained behind during the migration to Toril... so 2 out of the 3 goddesses needed to manifest Angharradh will still be quite elven and the third no one knows except as meta-game knowledge.
Nerfed2Hell, I understand your position and desire to keep with what came before. I should probably reiterate, however, that the whole purpose of these Musings is to take things that are official lore for the Fourth Edition Realms and bring them into line with what was already available in Third Edition (and previous).
In 4E (per FRCG), Hanali is an aspect of Sune, Aerdrie of Akadi, and Sehanine of Selûne. As such, those were the constraints under which I have to work. Angharradh is a goddess of her own, now, and this specific Musing is meant to interpret, from a Realms-consistent standpoint, how that came to pass.
Obviously, for most people sticking with 3E and the pre-1385 FR, this Realmslore is of limited utility. I am pleased that, as a 3E fan, you're still finding some use for this lore. I don't expect every Musing to have that effect, but if you got anything at all out of this piece--even if its just an excuse to allow a rules artifact to carry over--then I'm happy.
BC |
| Nerfed2Hell |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 15:04:19
The only thing I like (no offense, 3e only fan here) about that lore is Hanali being discreetly replaced by Sune as it gives me an excuse to allow CG elven paladins in my campaign under the same exception provided for Sune.
Aside from that, Aerdrie will still be her own goddess and Sehanine won't have remained behind during the migration to Toril... so 2 out of the 3 goddesses needed to manifest Angharradh will still be quite elven and the third no one knows except as meta-game knowledge. |
| Arioch |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 14:02:51
Simply great!  |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 13:15:08
Awesome work, Garen! That really helps me get a handle on Angharradh. Thanks! |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 13:03:25
Very good stuff, Garen. Like the Knight Errant, i like too much of Hanali and Sehanine texts. Wonderful scroll! |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 03:01:23
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Great work Garen! How long do we have to wait for more?
I am glad you like it.
The current plan is every week--every other week if I fall behind or other (ahem, paying) projects get in the way. I'm trying to keep them short in order to maintain this ambitious schedule and to keep the lore manageable; the deeper I delve, the more chance there is I'll do something that doesn't wind up working. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 02:45:09
I believe--if his original plan is to be upheld--we're on track to see Mulhorandi next Monday.
Cheers |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 02:13:33
Great work Garen! How long do we have to wait for more? |
