| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 18:27:39
I did a map of this region awhile ago, but never posted it anywhere for some reason. Now that the Elfharrow excerpt is out and we find out this area is gone, I figure I'd at least give it a tributary send-off.
Lapaliiya and Tharsult
The only non-canon name on this one is the Oris Plains, taken from the Orishaar Elves who once dwelt in the region.
Purple text indicates a subterranean locale (in this case Drow), and Aquamarine (blue-green) denotes a Sea Kingdom (in this case, Sea Elves).
--- Enjoy, Mark |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 19:23:33
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
I like the idea!
Are you thinking of canon sources only? It seems that canon sources might reap a paltry etymological harvest.
I am thinking of only cannon sources. Although, they might reap a paltry etymological harvest it might still be fun to try.
I've been toying with the idea for a while. The idea is that the place-names of Faerūn should give an idea of the previous history of the area under consideration.
For example, the place-name Candlekeep suggests that it was named by either Damarans or Chondathans. My reasoning for this is that we are told from Races of Faerūn (Thanks The Sage  ) that Chondathan and Damaran are very close to Common. So it seems reasonable to think that Candlekeep was named by one of those two.
I make this assumption on the following grounds, when we say Common in the Realms we mean English. Of course, in the Realms Common might not mean English exactly. But my point is that we can take words that are clearly based on English and say that they are a direct translation/representation of Common.
I hope I've made myself clear. If not, I'll explain a little further. We know that Candlekeep is a compound word composed of Candle and Keep, and we assume that whatever the sounds used by Realms Common to represent these two terms the meanings are exact. Therefore, a direct translation.
Now using that assumption/knowledge we can say that Candlekeep was named by either the Damarans or the Chondathans, or a culture that used Common as its first language at the time of naming.
So either Candlekeep was first settled by one of these cultures, or any previous settlement was so completely destroyed that the new culture did not know of them. A good example, are place-names in England which are predominantly English. This suggests a complete removal of the previous Celto-British inhabitants. So again, we can speculate that either the founders/namers of Candlekeep found an apparently virgin location or completely annihilated or assimilated the previous occupiers. |
| Varl |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 18:13:18
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And yeah... tidal waves hitting the Shining South... how much does anyone want to bet that Luiren is mostly swamp now? 
Blasphemy! Man, I can't seem to go far enough to avoid a RSE or pseudo-RSE these days.  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 14:24:22
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Thanks for pointing me to Ed's compiled replies. Which I found easily enough care of your signature. Any year in particular, or shall I make my way through the indexes?
Heh. It's actually been a while since I've checked the replies myself. I'll have to get on that. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 14:12:45
I like the idea!
Are you thinking of canon sources only? It seems that canon sources might reap a paltry etymological harvest. Then again, I'm working without Dragon and Dungeon....
It would be an awesome resource, though! |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 12:58:26
Taxonomy? As in naming organisms?
Thanks for pointing me to Ed's compiled replies. Which I found easily enough care of your signature. Any year in particular, or shall I make my way through the indexes?
Thanks also for directing me towards Races of Faerūn, which provides some interesting lore on the history of the languages.
I'll try and hunt down the Tom Costa article.
However, I was asking about an etymological history of the Realms. I can illustrate this best with a real world example. The village Breedon on the Hill in Leicestershire has been inhabited since Roman Britain. You can determine this by looking at the various elements that make up its name.
"Bree" comes from 'briga,' which is British for Hill. See also Tolkien's use of this in Middle Earth "Don" comes from the Old English 'Dun,' which means Hill. Finally, we have the modern English term "on the Hill." So in essence, we have a place called 'Hill hill on the hill.' The reason for the tautology is that at different periods different people settled the area. So when the Anglo Saxons arrived, they knew that the place was called Bree but not the meaning of the name. So they called the place Bree Hill. (Source: Place-Names of Great Britain and Ireland - John Field)
So, my question is: has anyone done this for the Realms? You should be able to peel away the different name elements and get an idea of the various cultures that have inhabited an area. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 01:07:50
You do.
Indeed. Seek out a copy of the article entitled "Speaking in Tongues" by Tom Costa. 'Twas only published in DRAGON Annual #4. Note that it's a [very interesting] taxonomy, not an in-depth examination of any particular language.
Also, take a look through Ed's compiled replies, as he's covered this subject a few times. And the various 'regional' books, as well as Races of Faerūn, which provides some brief notes on many of the more popular human racial dialects.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 22:04:03
There is an article on Languages by Tom Costa in Dragon Annual #4, IIRC.
VERY informative, BTW. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 19:29:14
I love maps! And yours are a delight. Thank you.
This reminds me has anyone done an etymological history of the Realms? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 19:15:03
I had considered doing a 4e version (like I did with Chult) after seeing the official Elfharrow map...
But the thing is so lacking in detail, I realy have NOTHING to build off of. 
They didn't even bother to show the tribal areas of the groups mentioned in the article.  |
| Brunswick |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 11:57:29
They're great - thanks for sharing those. :) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 00:05:17
Nice, thanks for sharing.
I think what was done to the region for 4E is a travesty. |
| Snotlord |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 08:52:19
Very nice. I will probably stick with the 3.x era for future realms games, so I may yet learn to know Lapaliiya. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 01:40:32
Thank You.
I just realized the 'Raumark Citadel' made it onto the bottom there, which is also NOT canon. However, I had some very good reasons for it and it's placement, which are in the notes on the Halruaa Map. |
| Brynweir |
Posted - 27 Jul 2008 : 00:19:56
Fantastic work! Thanks for sharing. This happens to be one of my favorite regions. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 22:26:17
I have no idea - I have it on that map, but that one is 3e (until I can take a look at WotC's version hopefully on Monday, in which case I may do a 4e version as well).
The article doesn't make mention of Tharsult at all. It's hard to guess-timate either - although many of the southern nations appear to have been 'washed away' by Spellplague-induced Tsunamis, Calimshan appears to have GROWN further out into the Sea!
Perhaps sunken Ajhuutal has returned...
Anyhow, things aren't looking good for old Tharsult... but perhaps Ed's concept for a long-lost Kingdom of Lizardmen has once-again risen to the surface? After all, they probaly enjoyed all the humans getting washed-away. 
And yeah... tidal waves hitting the Shining South... how much does anyone want to bet that Luiren is mostly swamp now? |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 21:49:33
Well-done, MT!
And thanks for sharing from your cartographic trove!
I cannot open the map link or download the excerpt from mobile broadband, so I'll ask: did Tharsult survive?
Thanks again, MT! |
| Quale |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 20:24:01
so you included that aquatic elven kingdom, nice, I never see it mentioned |
