| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jemcrystal |
Posted - 10 Jun 2008 : 19:56:04
Still looking for people to talk about the drow with. Any subject.
My pick is the disapointment in Pharaun's loss. I thought that finger was gonna mean resurrection. And I'm sick of demons. Why did drow loose their spotlight to cambions? If you're gonna destroy men as awesome as Pharaun, Ryld, and Jeggred why not put in replacements; new drow to love. You know, kid's kitten dies so you buy the kid a dog, not a fish. Demons don't take the place of a drow. An elf might.
If only Laurell K. Hamilton wrote about drow. Then the sex wouldn't all be lesbianism.
Thank God no one's killed Jarlaxle. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Stout Heart |
Posted - 13 Sep 2008 : 19:40:30
Elves and humans have always been the main focus with other races making guest appearances. Which is one of the reasons I love Troy Denning for righting the Twilight giant series. That's the very same reason I'm working so hard my self to become a better writer I want to read storys where the main characters are dwarves or gnomes even giants. I want to see the inner workings of there societies outside of the random inner workings of a little persons inn. Heck before realms of war I had never heard of a spriggin whens the last time a dryard broke one of your pc's thumbs for stepping on a twig. There are so many talented writers I just wish the would branch out racially. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 13 Sep 2008 : 09:51:58
Speaking of the drow, I noted that of the character names offered in the 4E's FRPG just 5 (males 4 / females 1) out of 40 have appeared in the FR before, while most come from the pick-your-name from prefixes & suffix section in the 3,5E "Core" Drow of the Underdark. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 13 Sep 2008 : 08:59:27
Well ... you have to consider though that real protagonist (i.e. people a story drives on) are not that numerous amongst drow either. The quantity of the Drizzt novels does not hide that there is just a couple of main protagonists in there, i.e. the scimitar-wielder and Jarlaxle. Liriel got a trilogy and a few appearances here and there, while the WotSQ series and the linked LP trilogy are somewhat of an excemption. Of course, they still outdistance most other races. You get some halfling / saurial stuff in the Alias trilogy (Azure Bonds etc.), a gnome (and a gnoll!) in Soldiers of Ice. Elves got covered more often recently, though as you have said, humans still take up some 80% of the protagonists of the FR novels. Which is, IMHO, a bit of a shame for a setting brimming with "fantastic" creatures. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 18:41:38
The was a nice gnome character in Temple Hill. He wasn't a protagonist, but he wasn't irrelevant, either. |
| GoCeraf |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 17:03:29
I know what you mean. There are characters of moderate import in some of the novels that I've read (Nanfoodle comes to mind), but never a main character like Belwar. Unfortunately, those are the only two I can think of off the top of my head, except maybe for a very minor character here and there. |
| Neil |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 16:51:50
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
Aside from, perhaps, humans, there are more drow protagonists than any other race, certainly more than gnomes or halflings.
Has there ever been a gnome protagonist, except for the deep gnome in the Dark Elf books? The poor gnomes are almost non-existant in the fiction. |
| Jimbobx |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 21:39:46
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobx
SPOILER
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
the end of the orc king made me angry. Bruenor Delzoun Battlehammer sign a peace treaty with ORCS! seriously?
Ah shoot. You could've spoilered that one. I was waiting for the paperback.
Sorry about that I wasn't thinking.
No worries. It happens.  |
| Stout Heart |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 15:05:57
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobx
SPOILER
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
the end of the orc king made me angry. Bruenor Delzoun Battlehammer sign a peace treaty with ORCS! seriously?
Ah shoot. You could've spoilered that one. I was waiting for the paperback.
Sorry about that I wasn't thinking. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 11:51:02
quote:
Originally posted by Vangelor
I find it hard to identify with sadism, slavery, demon-worship and kin-slaying. That said, the accursed traitor not-elves make good antagonists. Not avaialable as a PC race in my home campaign. Even Eilistraeeans are only present as NPC's, or the race loses its mystery. Yes, I am a player from the days when "Queen of the Demonweb Pits" was a new publication, and to surface races, the drow were a rumor too fearsome to believe. I prefer them that way.
I read the Salvatore story in Realms of the Elves, and wish I had not sold my Drizzt virginity so cheaply. I don't see what the fuss is about. I would rather read about elves.
The traitor-elves bit is, of course, elven propaganda done by the "winners". As LP III intimates, at the time the dark elves very just short of extinction (at the hands of the Vyshaan sun elves of Aryvandaar) and thus forced into demon-meddling, i.e. getting Lolth into the matter big time. Some neat bit of info.
It is not so much identify with them, but liking them as mean and cunning and intelligent antagonists.
Anyway, if you want to read about elves, there is lots out there, like The Last Mythal trilogy, parts of the Return of the Archwizards' trilogy, The Howling Delve, Darkvision, Stardeep, Evermeet, Bladesinger ... it's all out there.  |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 09:51:35
I find it hard to identify with sadism, slavery, demon-worship and kin-slaying. That said, the accursed traitor not-elves make good antagonists. Not avaialable as a PC race in my home campaign. Even Eilistraeeans are only present as NPC's, or the race loses its mystery. Yes, I am a player from the days when "Queen of the Demonweb Pits" was a new publication, and to surface races, the drow were a rumor too fearsome to believe. I prefer them that way.
I read the Salvatore story in Realms of the Elves, and wish I had not sold my Drizzt virginity so cheaply. I don't see what the fuss is about. I would rather read about elves.
|
| Jimbobx |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 07:29:30
SPOILER
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
the end of the orc king made me angry. Bruenor Delzoun Battlehammer sign a peace treaty with ORCS! seriously?
Ah shoot. You could've spoilered that one. I was waiting for the paperback. |
| GoCeraf |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 19:11:55
Right... so, ah...
Mingling =/= intellectual conversation
SPOILER ALERT::
Anyway, I've not read the Lady Penitent series (nor do I plan to), but do the new dark elves created by the Sshamath wizards' ritual look the same as the dark elves from back in the day?
All the best |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 18:16:06
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Who else in the history of the city brought more chaos than Zaknafein's son?
Don't know, but I'm sure they exist/existed. |
| Stout Heart |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 23:58:14
I'm hoping that Pharauns son will play more then just a minor role in the rest of the books seeing as how he hasn't spoken a single word yet. I'm extremely fond of Q'arlynd as well he doesn't have pharauns talent or ability but he's smart and shows promise. I enjoyed the LP trilogy from the first book to the last but the death of my most loved goddess was felt so deeply you would think I was one of her acolytes. As far as drizzt goes I will always have a soft spot for him the Dark elf trilogy taught me about forgotten realms but I'm bored with him. The best thing abut the two swords were the dwarves and the end of the orc king made me angry. Bruenor Delzoun Battlehammer sign a peace treaty with ORCS! seriously? I do like the direction he went in with Tos'un to be honest it was believable. |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 23:21:44
Spoiler.......?
There was a little bit of debate during the last few novels about who exactly was behind Drizzt's success. Most of Menzo that knows who he is thinks he's some sort of curse from the faerie gods or something, but a few intrepid clerics thought that Drizzt was actually blessed by Lloth. Who else in the history of the city brought more chaos than Zaknafein's son? I personally like this theory...because let's face it, if Lloth wanted him dead, squish. She probably enjoyed/enjoys all the upheaval caused by his rebellion, as she was clearly bored with the Baenres and all their doings. I don't think she supports Do'Urden and his friends, but I'm pretty sure she cackled with delight when Catti-brie sent that stalagtite a-flyin'. :D |
| Thalos_Milathriel |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 22:50:13
I agree. Pharaun was one of the better drow characters. Hopefully Alisza will use that finger to ressurect him post-Spellplague and maybe we'll have a new trilogy where the two of them try to escape Khanyr Vhok and protect their child from some sinister demoic plot.
Q'arlynd is also a recent favorite. I enjoyed reading about him.
Drizzt is great, but Salvatore should shake it up or something. Seems like I'm reading about a drow's "Golden Years". Need some danger... need a fall from grace. Is Drizz't becoming a deity soon? Seems to perfect to be mortal... Just my two cents.
Jarlaxle is my FAVORITE drow character. A blast to read about and you never know if he'll be a bastard or a good guy. He truly embodies the chaos of the drow.
Funny, but I'm halfway through rereading the War Of The Spider Queen series right now. I can never get enough drow novels, but I'm open to surface Elves, humans tieflings and whatever. I'm an insomniac, so I go through these books pretty quickly. MORE REALMS NOVELS, STAT! |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 16:23:42
I loved the War of the Spider Queen. Any time that the Realms become a more dangerous, chaotic place, good drama comes from the conflict. That's why I'm still open-minded about the Shattered Realms.
Pharaun was oh-so-much fun. He was what I would consider a paragon of the race and a pleasure to read. But I enjoyed the justice meeted out to those characters...worship of a demon is worship of a demon, and it has consequences.
And of course, just because the finger hasn't been used doesn't mean it never will be...
Drow are people. Race aside, they have personalities, desires, the whole gamut. I don't really see why so many folk get bent out of shape about their "over-population" in the storylines...especially when you consider how many other novels completely sidestep the dark elves altogether. The Realms (to paraphrase Egg-Shen) are a salad bar - you take what you want and leave the rest.  |
| Jemcrystal |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 15:55:13
"DrowFan1: "I like drow."
DrawFan2: "Hey, I do, too!"
I mean... that's not exactly enlightening, is it?"
Yes, it is.
It's called mingling. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 17:02:59
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
IMO, the Maztica trilogy were FR novels with a balanced view of drow. The Maztican drow get soundly defeated, while wonderfully portrayed as mysterious BBEGs and schemers of the first rank. I didn't consider the novels great literature but had no complaints about their portrayal of drow.
Matter of factly, the WotSQ series is pretty balanced too - IF one takes the level of the characters in question into consideration. "In the field" (Menzoberranzan), the drow suffered much like the duergar and the tanarukka. Neither of them are average "fighters" and thus posed a threat to the drow. If you go on and take CotSQ's backstory as an example too, you can easily see that there is a difference with your every-day drow in a city like Maerimydra and high-level folk like Quenthel, Gromph, Danifae or now Q'arlynd. |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 19:00:34
IMO, the Maztica trilogy were FR novels with a balanced view of drow. The Maztican drow get soundly defeated, while wonderfully portrayed as mysterious BBEGs and schemers of the first rank. I didn't consider the novels great literature but had no complaints about their portrayal of drow. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 18:52:07
Drow threads ALWAYS end badly - I got into a fight with a good friend over them.
Totally stupid, in hindsight. 
Anyhow, I had to go back and read what I wrote to figure out what you were agreeing to.
Mostly it was just some obseravations about the novels, and since I feel most of them shouldn't even exist (not just the Drizzt/Drow ones), I'm not really a good example of someone who is objective.  |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 02:55:12
quote:
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
I agree with Markustay. Several others had interresting things to say but I need more time to sort through. To many useless comments. I never asked to speak to people who hated / were-tired-of the drow. Perhaps I should have been more specific.
I know drow haters are out there. I did not start this thread for you. If you want a drow hating thread start a drow hating thread. Please, I would appreciate ONLY those who are interrested in drow to comment.
Thank you bunches!!! ^^
You may want to amend this to say "If you're a drow fan, speak up." Having an interest in something doesn't necessarily equate to a like of it. You're inviting comments from all the folks who either; 1. Are drow fans, like yourself. 2. Wish that drow were something else/better/different, and will give you a thesis explaining their hypothesis. or 3. Hate the drow and want to share why they do.
As Rin said this is a public forum, not a chatroom so you can't pick and choose. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 00:07:29
quote:
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
I agree with Markustay. Several others had interresting things to say but I need more time to sort through. To many useless comments. I never asked to speak to people who hated / were-tired-of the drow.
On this discussion board, everyone is permited to participate. That's just the way it goes on a "public" forum. |
| GoCeraf |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 23:22:29
quote:
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
I agree with Markustay. Several others had interresting things to say but I need more time to sort through. To many useless comments. I never asked to speak to people who hated / were-tired-of the drow. Perhaps I should have been more specific.
I know drow haters are out there. I did not start this thread for you. If you want a drow hating thread start a drow hating thread. Please, I would appreciate ONLY those who are interrested in drow to comment.
Thank you bunches!!! ^^
Um...
It's a discussion board!
DrowFan1: "I like drow."
DrawFan2: "Hey, I do, too!"
I mean... that's not exactly enlightening, is it? The drow have been some of the most popularly written-about characters in the setting for two decades (largely due to Mr. Salvatore), and yes, I'm including Drizzt novels in that. Do'Urden is frequently the victim of both fanboyism and hatred due to being 'too popular.'
Regardless, your feeling that there are not enough drow novels is, apologetically, a bit meaningless. Aside from, perhaps, humans, there are more drow protagonists than any other race, certainly more than gnomes or halflings.
That, and you don't own the boards, nor do you possess the power to ban people as you see fit. You can't just ask for only people who agree with you to contribute to the "discussion". If you develop a somewhat trivial topic, you should at least expect a little disagreement. That, and calling anyone "dumb," whether they're posters or not, does little to abate dissenters. |
| Jemcrystal |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 17:16:37
I agree with Markustay. Several others had interresting things to say but I need more time to sort through. To many useless comments. I never asked to speak to people who hated / were-tired-of the drow. Perhaps I should have been more specific.
I know drow haters are out there. I did not start this thread for you. If you want a drow hating thread start a drow hating thread. Please, I would appreciate ONLY those who are interrested in drow to comment.
Thank you bunches!!! ^^ |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 01:43:05
quote:
Originally posted by Trailstalker
Can someone explain what changes have been made? I'd even accept a PM, if discussing such is frowned upon in the open forum or if I'm hijacking this thread...
There are some threads to read about this in the forums that discuss WotC news, as well. |
| Aulduron |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 23:28:52
PM sent |
| Trailstalker |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 18:22:46
I much prefer Drow as they're supposed to be; sinister, plotting, evil little buggers whom - in their environment - are quite lethal.
However, from a game mechanics point of view, what has happened with them recently? I just came back from 6 months in Afghanistan, and it seems 4th Ed. has completely jacked things up. Can someone explain what changes have been made? I'd even accept a PM, if discussing such is frowned upon in the open forum or if I'm hijacking this thread... |
| Zanan |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 09:56:41
Keep in mind that not the characters write the novels ... |
| Aulduron |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 05:19:02
I think he was mostly trying to fit in, and be accepted, in order to find better opportunities on the surface, than he could below. However, Entreri spoiled that for him. |
