| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Strahd Von Zarovich |
Posted - 07 Jun 2003 : 00:47:43
Does anyone know if there is a compiled document containing a list of drow names, places and so forth with pronunciation.
It would make reading the Drow tales better if I knew how the names were meant to sound.
For example
is BAENRE (BAY-EN-RAY) or (BANE-ER) or (BANE-RAY)
Strahd Von Zarovich |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Zireael |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 15:34:52
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Submitted for your collective education- Baenre is actually (according to the "By Any Other Name: the Drow" name generator article in Dragon # 267, I believe it was) pronounced BANE-REH: "eh" like in pesto) and the article has a pronunciation guide, if memory serves. It also translates the meanings of both prefix and suffix name parts. There was also one in the 3.5 Drow of the Underdark book, with some of the same name parts, but with different meanings, and a small section on drow language. E is pronounced EE if there is an A or I before or after (as in Eilistraee, pronounced EEListrayEE) and EH if it is alone. I've done quite a bit of study into drow linguistics for some of my own tales, and for anyone interested in a full treatment, the drow translator on www.eilistraee.com has a complete dictionary/translator, with a pronunciation guied and grammar aid as well. One can soon be speaking fluent drow, with proper pronunciation with this little handy tool! (I occasionally curse at annoying customers in appropriately "colorful" drowish phrases, though always under my breath, of course....)
There is a pronunciation guide at www.eilistraee.com? I never noticed. Point me, please... as for the rest, I've been using the Chosen of Eilistraee dictionary for a long time. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 21:05:05
Submitted for your collective education- Baenre is actually (according to the "By Any Other Name: the Drow" name generator article in Dragon # 267, I believe it was) pronounced BANE-REH: "eh" like in pesto) and the article has a pronunciation guide, if memory serves. It also translates the meanings of both prefix and suffix name parts. There was also one in the 3.5 Drow of the Underdark book, with some of the same name parts, but with different meanings, and a small section on drow language. E is pronounced EE if there is an A or I before or after (as in Eilistraee, pronounced EEListrayEE) and EH if it is alone. I've done quite a bit of study into drow linguistics for some of my own tales, and for anyone interested in a full treatment, the drow translator on www.eilistraee.com has a complete dictionary/translator, with a pronunciation guied and grammar aid as well. One can soon be speaking fluent drow, with proper pronunciation with this little handy tool! (I occasionally curse at annoying customers in appropriately "colorful" drowish phrases, though always under my breath, of course....) |
| Aulduron |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 19:08:30
Half the time my mind says Ay-oth, the other half it skips the A and says it Oth. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 19:00:25
quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
Aoth is the latest name I've been wondering how to pronounce.
-I'd say it 'Ay-oth'. |
| Aulduron |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 18:48:09
At least Jordan has a pronunciation guide at the back of each book.
Aoth is the latest name I've been wondering how to pronounce. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 12:26:25
Ed, whereas Baenre is Bob's name; and I wouldn't extend its pronunciation to drow in general. I think that's all there is to it.
Which Baldur's Gate names do you have in mind? |
| Zireael |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 10:26:02
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Normally I would have pronounced it - BAY-EN-RAY, although the proper pronunciation stated by Faraer, as 'bah-EN-reh' definitely matches more to how I actually thought it would be pronounced.
Besides on the post from the link Faraer supplied, Elaine Cunningham also basically stated that "All vowels short, accent on second syllable".
Makes sense to me  .
May all your learning be free and unfettered
Love the post. Took me a while to google it.
On topic (I apologize for resurrecting such an old topic) - does anyone know how to pronounce names from Baldur's Gate series?
Speaking of <ae>, why in drow it is (apparently) pronounced /aheh/, while in all other FR materials it's pronounced /ey/, as in /feyrun/...
Who came up with the FR pronunciation of <ae> as /ey/? |
| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 22:17:34
Faraer:
quote:
It's definitely Elaine. The as and es are all separate short vowels, so 'bah-EN-reh'.
Actually, it's nothing to me one way or the other. If I meet someone on the 'net claiming to be such-and-such famous person, I'll take them at their word. If they're telling the truth, it's the polite thing to do (obviously, I guess  ). If they're not telling the truth, it doesn't really affect me in any way. I'm never going to meet them. So, I don't know why I said "or someone claiming to be her". I violated my own credo (ouch). |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 16:04:15
Oh well. I still like bane-REE, and I've been using that one for years. However, if I were the author, I'd want people to pronounce it the 'right' way, so I guess I could switch. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 13:35:22
Normally I would have pronounced it - BAY-EN-RAY, although the proper pronunciation stated by Faraer, as 'bah-EN-reh' definitely matches more to how I actually thought it would be pronounced.
Besides on the post from the link Faraer supplied, Elaine Cunningham also basically stated that "All vowels short, accent on second syllable".
Makes sense to me .
May all your learning be free and unfettered
|
| eilinel |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 12:53:23
just to say that if u take a dictionary and look for celtic, u will find this word comes from French and not Gaelic. Francs used to name Gaelic people celtics. Thats it. Don't say that gaelic comes from French, not at all. And since francs spoke a mix between their own langage, which comes from asia after 5 centuries of travel, and latin.
So Scottish use to say keltic people, yes, because they named them the kelters, which meant wearer of kilts, that Francs changed as Celts... or if u are more interested, just ask me.
and i say ba-en-ré in French even if its probably not the right way , is it like bah-en-reh for u or what?
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| Faraer |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 01:35:43
It's definitely Elaine. The as and es are all separate short vowels, so 'bah-EN-reh'. |
| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 22:27:37
All I can say is it works for me. Elaine Cunningham (or someone claiming to be her) wrote that Salvatore says bah-ENN-ray (which is not what I thought either). |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 22:21:02
That link won't load. |
| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 22:18:43
Strahd, go to the link in Faraer's post. |
| Strahd Von Zarovich |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 22:15:13
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Celtic can be pronounced EITHER way. No one really says one way or the other. Go to Ireland, go to Scotland, and Celtic is often pronounced seltic. I pronounce it with a K. At one time I beleived the myth that it was pronounced with a K, but after travelling to the actual C(K)eltic isles, I discovered no one really cares, and most scots pronounce it with an S.
Sorry about this one guys, but I am from the UK AND have Celtic blood, so I want to just point out something.
If you are in Scotland and you are talking about Celtic, then that is pronounced Sel-tik. This is a place name. If you are talking about Celts or the Celtic culture then that is pronounced KEL-TIC, or the KELTS.
Anyway this seems to be getting slightly off topic, thanks for the input on Drow pronunciation, however we don't seem to come to an agreement on how Salvatores created names should sound. So I guess we will leave it for you all to say it how you like.
Thanks again to all!
Strahd Von Zarovich |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 21:52:19
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Thanks, Mournblade, that was almost exactly the thing I was trying to convey earlier.
And Brynweir, I think that it's important to pronounce things the way they're 'supposed' to be pronounced. I cringe everytime I hear people say "Seltic" instead of Keltic. 'Celtic' is supposed to have a k-sound. 
Sorry on this one Bookwyrm... Celtic can be pronounced EITHER way. No one really says one way or the other. Go to Ireland, go to Scotland, and Celtic is often pronounced seltic. I pronounce it with a K. At one time I beleived the myth that it was pronounced with a K, but after travelling to the actual C(K)eltic isles, I discovered no one really cares, and most scots pronounce it with an S.
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| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 21:22:04
No, I wouldn't change the spelling of a novel set in Ireland, because those are real places. "Seanchan", "Baenre" and "Drizzt" are made up names. The authors could spell them any way they wanted. If they want "Drizzt" to be pronounced DRIST, then they shouldn't spell it D-R-I-Z-Z-T.
Maybe they don't really care how people pronounce the words, maybe they do.
Bookwyrm:
Who accused you of being provincial? I didn't. My saying that I'm not provincial was not meant to imply that I think you are. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 21:00:53
Bran, I also pronounce things in a European (mostly Latinized) manner. Why are people assuming I'm a hardcore, America-first person?  I'll have you know that I am the son of a Naval officer, and as such I've had plenty of experience with non-American cultures. I have not lived my entire life inside the borders of the United States. |
| Hymn |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 20:54:52
Just a question, isn't the drow language in FR based on Sachernas? (not 100% sure on the spelling) |
| Faraer |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 20:45:22
It smells to me of ideas and words and art being processed to make them immediately accessible to everyone, like Miramax remakes of east Asian films, novelizations of films of books, crackpot spelling-regularization schemes. You wouldn't change the spelling in a novel set in Ireland. And if a writer wants to transplant it for some reason to another context, it may be for the appeal of the written word as much as the sound. |
| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 18:20:18
Faraer:
Why would spelling "Seanchan" S-H-A-W-N-C-H-A-N make Jordan look illiterate? Do the parents of Americans named Shawn or Shaun look illitirate?
That link seems to put to rest the notion that "Baenre" is pronounced "BANE-ray". |
| Faraer |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 18:05:39
Pronunciation of Baenre revealed on wizards.com boards:
http://boards.wizards.com/rpg/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=170;t=001944
I don't think Seanchan is a good name except in an Irish context, but respelling it would just make the author seem illiterate. 'Sean' is a conventional English-language name anyway.
One reason mispronouncing names is bad is that it changes the balance and rhythm of sentences.
English 'Celt' is more from the Latin and Greek than the intermediary French. (But for some reason, the Scottish football team is pronounced with a soft c.) |
| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 18:02:30
eilinel:
quote:
well, if u see where celtic comes from, u'd understand why u pronounce seltic, it just comes from French and in French if u have an e or an i afer a c u pronouce it s.
This comes from the Francs who couldn't pronounce corectly latin ad changed it in a mix with their own langage.
It's pronounced "SEL-tik" by many Americans because that pronunciation rule holds true in English, not because it holds true in French.
The Celtic/Gaelic people of Brittany speak Breton, a Gaelic language no more related to French than Swedish is.
Bookwyrm:
If pronunciation is very important, then it's important to spell made-up words in such a way as to maximize the likliehood that the word will be pronounced the way you intend. Hence, if you want "Baenre" to be pronounced BANE-ray by American English speakers (and I will stress again that I'm not implying the world begins and ends with American English speakers), then spelling it "Baenre" is not a very good way to spell it. I say BUY-en-ray because I (sort of) speak French, and a smattering of other European languages, so I tend to pronounce made up words in a more or less "European" way. |
| eilinel |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 15:29:00
well, if u see where celtic comes from, u'd understand why u pronounce seltic, it just comes from French and in French if u have an e or an i afer a c u pronouce it s.
This comes from the Francs who couldn't pronounce corectly latin ad changed it in a mix with their own langage.
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| Zacas |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 06:38:52
hrm.. I often tended to switch Baenre to be Bane-ree or Bane-ray... i dunno why... but then i used to pronounce drow using 'ow' like getting hurt... instead of Drow like throw as i think the BG games ended up using... or i have this backwards as i say both now... hehe...
It's all kinda like my last name... though i won't say it here... but it's a germanic/luxembourgean last name... has 3 vowels in a row... and often cofuses the heck out of people... in school i would ahve to say my last name before the teacher could to try and prevent them from feeling stupid for pronouncing it wrong... of which... i think maybe 5 teachers in the 15 years (includes the past 3 college years) of school actually got it right on the first try... |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 06:12:50
No, I was agreeing with Mournblade that pronounciation is very important, and a well-crafted name -- in both sight and sound -- sets the whole mood for any part of a story that that name is involved in.
To quote the Internet humorist and cartoonist Howard Tayler (a man I always can count on for a laugh) and his "Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates":
Rule #16: "Your name is in the mouths of others. Be sure it has teeth." |
| branmakmuffin |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 05:43:29
You seem to argue against the point you you praise Mournblade for, Bookwyrm. You apparently agree with "Who cares how someone pronounces it?" Now, maybe that's not one of the points you agree with him on, in which case my point is, well, pointless, but it's not clear.
Then in response to Brynweir, you say pronunciation is very important. If pronuncation is very important, then the spelling should be such as to be most likely to lead to that pronunciation. This holds even if you're not agreeing with Mournblade on that other point.
Mournblade, Viking names are pronunced according to different rules from American English. Now that's of no matter to someone whose language is not American English, but that's my native language and I assume it's yours as well.
"Drizzt" being hard and "Drisst" being soft is your perception. Maybe it's also the opinion of most, but it's still a matter of opinion. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 04:39:45
Thanks, Mournblade, that was almost exactly the thing I was trying to convey earlier.
And Brynweir, I think that it's important to pronounce things the way they're 'supposed' to be pronounced. I cringe everytime I hear people say "Seltic" instead of Keltic. 'Celtic' is supposed to have a k-sound. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 00:56:10
I ran into this problem with some of the Elric novels.
ELRIC OF MELNIBONE. (The last E has one of those accent marks over it). Is it MEL-na-Bon-ey or MEL na bon ay. I started with the first and have since heard others call it by the second and I changed years ago. I LOVE those alternate spellings. I love the ae, och (pronounced ohk). SOMETIMES the author spells a name to get a certain feel. For instance, if you had a viking character and you wanted to pronounce it HROK er, you could spell it Harokker, Hrokker, or Hrokkr. Sometimes names just look better with certain spellings.
The Viking name Hrimgnar pronounced RIM gin AR looks much better as Hrimgnar than Rimginar. Siegfried, hasa different feel than Sigfreed.
I think the way a name is spelled is EXTREMELY important. WHo cares if someone pronounces it wrong. A book is a book not a movie or a radio show. Appearance of the words are important.
I personally Love the spelling baenre. And what of Drizzt. Drizzit does not have the same flare, or even Drisst. Drizzt is HARD. Drisst is soft. A different image comes to mind. BANERAY looks sci-fi. Baenre looks archaic. It is very important for the mood.
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