| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 05 Jan 2008 : 23:28:24
So this Christmas I got a load of Green Ronin books. A few of them I got more as reference for various time periods than specifically anything I thought I'd use, but surprisingly, some ideas sprang up from the Testament and Trojan War books.
Back in 2nd edition, "Southern Magic" was a grouping of arcane spells that spellcasters outside of the Old Empires didn't know how to cast, and "Read Southern Magic" was a great coup that was developed by the Halruaans, since they could use "southern" spells with it.
Anyway, after looking at a few of the arcane spellcasting classes from the Green Ronin books, I thought about putting a different spin on things. The idea of "Southern Magic" and spellcasters not being able to use spells from the Old Empires is out there, but its largely a misunderstanding.
Khery-heb (the arcane casters for the Eyptians in the GR books), had to have a divine patron, and they could prepare spells from one of their patron's domains as arcane spells, and some spells of theirs were considered "sacred" and never to be used by those outside of the tradition. I'd use this for the Mulhorandi.
Magi of the Starry Host (the arcane casters for the Babylonians in the GR books), prepare spells just like wizards, except that they don't have a spellbook, but more or less learn their spells by meditating on various constellations, and have to be able to see the starts to prepare their spells. I'd use these for the Untheric mages.
Magicians (the arcane casters for the Greeks in the GR books) don't have a spellbook, but they have a wand and they still need to prepare spells by attuning the wand to what spells it will connect them to, and the wand essentially acts as their spellbook, as when they learn spells, they add it to the wand. I'd use these for the Chessentan wizards.
Now, conventional wizards as well as sorcerers would exist in each of these settings, since obviously travelers have come here and brought more traditional forms of the Art with them. However, since the "traditional" form of spellcasting is still very prevalent, many "northern" mages assume that the sacred books of the Mulhorandi or the "hidden" spells of the Untheric and Chessentan mages has something to do with inscrutable "southern magic."
Anyway, just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this concept, if you think it would work, or if it would have any problems or if it butts heads with anything in existing lore that hasn't popped into my mind yet.
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| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| freyar |
Posted - 07 Jan 2008 : 14:25:24
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
The FC series provided a good explanation with regards to fiends handing out "divine" spells, i.e. that it is not exactly the fiend lord who does that, but the Abyss and the Hells as such via the fiend lord. (Unless I got that one wrong.)
No, you're right. I just found that explanation from FC1 to be kind of cheesy, so I worked out something else. I also like the idea of the witch class for worshipers of deities with more free-form religions that don't support large orders of paladins (I could see Selune sending an eladrin to form a coven of good witches, for example). |
| Zanan |
Posted - 07 Jan 2008 : 10:09:49
I have no problems with new "sources" of arcane magic, as long as they work well enough along the lines of the system, like psionics, invocations, shadow magic (ToM) et al. Thus, go for it.
The FC series provided a good explanation with regards to fiends handing out "divine" spells, i.e. that it is not exactly the fiend lord who does that, but the Abyss and the Hells as such via the fiend lord. (Unless I got that one wrong.) |
| Daviot |
Posted - 07 Jan 2008 : 07:44:30
An interesting topic. I've apparently missed most of the 2nd Ed stuff on Southern Magic, and there's only a brief mention of it in 3rd (as the Southern Magician feat in Races of Faerūn).
As for alternate spellbooks, one of the players in my current campaign uses a book for his lesser-used spells, but painstakingly etched his favorite and fundamental spells in shorthand using Hamarfae script on the back, flat side of his longsword. By going around the edges, it looks like merely decorative etching to the untrained eye. |
| Stonwulfe |
Posted - 07 Jan 2008 : 03:46:58
Well, consider the Gaugothans. Gaugotha is a banished pit-fiend, an ex-demonprince. He is certainly not divine, though one could consider Velsharoon or Bane anything but divine. However, your point has merit. Therefore, I suggest the following:
a. Have your PCs pursue a few levels in cleric with the understanding that they may pray/petition for certain arcane spells (provided they suit the portfolio of the fiend in question, or are 'flavour' appropriate); corrosive spells, necromantic spells, etc. Endorse prestige classes and spells like acolyte of the skin, fiendform, true necromancer, etc.
b. Have your PCs pursue arcane levels, and grant them certain 'divine' favours in the form of a gift from their sponsor. A magic item of mediocre nature will do (a blood-weeping vampiric broadsword for a follower of Orcus, for example). Offer them XP rewards and access to Divine spells if they take (and roleplay well) arcane prestige classes like arcane devotee, elemental savant, mindbender (particularly useful if they worship a devil), or something even more obscene like occular adept or alienist.
The best way to really help them appreciate the experience is thoughtful - but limited - description. Play the H.P. Lovecraft role. Build suspense. Give them a sense of power but tell them only enough to instill fear and let their imagination do the rest. If you need inspiration, I'd recommend watching the following movies: I am Legend, Event Horizon, Brotherhood of the Wolf, and while I am loathe to suggest it Spawn. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 07 Jan 2008 : 03:42:56
That is kind of a cool way to deal with the "Do Demon Lords grant divine spells to worshipers" question. I'm not sure I'd adopted it, but its not an angle I had thought of before you mentioned it.
Another thing I thought was interesting was that in the Advanced Player's Manual from Green Ronin they have a feat called Expand Spell Choice, and it kind of reinforces that "nothings impossible, but some things are harder than others" when it comes to magic.
Basically it lets you add a spell to your spell list that isn't normally there, but the spell you add is limited. For example, if you want to add a spell to your spell list from a "different type," (i.e. a divine spell on an arcane list), you can only use the feat to learn a spell that is available to someone 1/3 your level, and if its from a class that has a different spellcasting ability used to determine their spellcasting, its reduced further, to one quarter.
So in most cases, a wizard trying to learn a cleric spell as arcane would do so at 1/4 his current level. So if a wizard wanted to learn Raise Dead, for example, he would have to be 36th(!) level before he could do so, and even then, the arcane form of the spell only works for someone that uses the feat to figure it out, not just for any apprentice that reads the spell from his spellbook.
Again, not sure I'd use this quite yet, but it does help to show that some divine effects can be accomplished with arcane magic, but only with a lot of effort, and those effects are much more efficiently done with divine magic. |
| freyar |
Posted - 07 Jan 2008 : 01:54:39
I like these ideas a lot. I mentioned this in another thread, but here's my own version of this. A while ago, when I read the Netbook of Witches, I got to thinking that arcane casters with a special tie to a deity or powerful outsider could explain cults. For example, demon cults usually are supposed to have "divine" spells, but what if they are really arcane spells taught to the cultists? That way, I don't have to have demons granting divine spells.  Since the spell list for the witch class has a lot of traditionally divine spells, it make some in game sense. Anyway, I'd love to know what others think and hear more ideas from your campaigns. |
| Stonwulfe |
Posted - 06 Jan 2008 : 00:11:59
It sounds like a plausible venture. In my own home game, one of two that I run, we are pretty wizard-heavy, with three PCs out of five having access to arcane magic. One is a spellsword, one a straight wizard, and the last a sorcerous rogue. Each has worked into their backstory the secrets of how they learned magic, whom they learned it from, and what form the recordings of the arcane take.
In the case of the spellsword, he has craft (weaponsmithing) and has created a round spellbook comprised of flat electrum discs engraved with arcane representations of the spells (not in the same form as a scroll). The discs stack neatly together and fit into a hidden circular compartment at the base of his spell-storing blade. In addition to another wizard needing to find his spellbook, he then needs to unravel the cypher he uses to conceal his secrets.
With the straight wizard (contemplating arcane devotee), he has created a set of "prayer beads" which he wears - and purports strengthen his spiritual ties to Ilmater. The truth of the prayer beads, which are about the size of a quarter-dollar, is that they have all been very finely inscribed with arcane marks. The wizard paints the marks onto the beads with a stylus made from a cut-down arrow shaft set with a single horse eyelash. As such, the detail is extremely fine, and the writing quite small. To add to to the fine detail, the arcane mark shows up only under detect magic (and can be mistaken as something other than a spellbook, given it's nature) or under the light of a candle which has been made from wax and a spellcaster's own blood.
As for the sorcerer, he has slowly been putting together spell research, deciding to try to intellectually grasp what he already intuitively feels. This spell research, however, is stored in much the same way as the Chinese used to keep records of law. He writes out his reseach one sentence at a time, in Giant-tongue, on thin laqeured strips of magically treated wood. They are not numbered, and he writes the details of more than one project on each strip. Therefore, it is nigh-impossible for someone else to copy or interpret his works because what you read depends entirely on what order you have the billets in, what side of them you're looking at (individually, and as a whole), whether or not you know which ones to turn over to find footnotes, and whether or not you understand the intended end-result. Clever. |
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