| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Shizknight |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 16:43:20
I was wonder why there isn't a spell of healing for wizards. I know that would severely hurt the purpose of a cleric. But in many Faerun novels I've read there is many instances of mages healing others. Were all of these just that they had a level of cleric? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Barastir |
Posted - 03 Aug 2021 : 17:38:59
I know about 2e and earlier books. The "Ghelkyn's wounding" spell, from the Volo's Guide to the North IIRC, allows a vampiric healing.
EDIT: editing |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Jul 2021 : 21:03:39
There are other possibilities.
Spells like wish, limited wish, and alter reality are able to duplicate the effects of any other spell with equal or lesser level. A single full wish can even heal an entire party. Although the rules (or "guidelines") for these spells rely largely on the DM's "discretion" and have been modified substantially in every major and minor game/rules edition.
Spells like polymorph, shapechange, and various transmutation magics are able to heal a significant amount of injury/damage.
Spells like regeneration, vampiric regeneration, and troll's blood are able to greatly accelerate normal healing rates.
Spells like (Simbul's) synosdodweomer are high-level, complex, expensive, and rare - and vastly inferior to low-level priestly healing magics. It seems obvious that these sorts of arcane healing spells wouldn't exist if arcane casters had simpler, cheaper, and better options. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 25 Jul 2021 : 19:11:38
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
What is the reference to spell turning being connected to the Positive Energy plane? I would like to see if there is anything else that can be gleaned from that.
What happens when a pair spell turnings run into each other (i.e. the caster and target are both under these effects). Among the other outcomes, this can dump the protected subject on Positive.
Thank you. I didn't remember that.
Also, the 6th level mantle spell allows a caster that is level 22 or higher to sacrifice a memorized or hung spell to heal themselves for 1d4 per spell level of the spell sacrificed. A 9th level spell would grant 9d4 points of healing. That isn't too bad in an emergency. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 25 Jul 2021 : 16:39:38
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
What is the reference to spell turning being connected to the Positive Energy plane? I would like to see if there is anything else that can be gleaned from that.
What happens when a pair spell turnings run into each other (i.e. the caster and target are both under these effects). Among the other outcomes, this can dump the protected subject on Positive.
Internal Conjuration Engine (from Mystara) is enchanted with spell turning, its purpose is scaling up magic: basically it pumps a potion through resonance chamber, and applies its effect to a whole flying ship. Usually it's potion of flying, but there are variants with extra intakes for other potions like blending, speed or fire resistance.
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Also, there is the "heal self" spell attributed to the phaerim.
The phaerimm already absorb incoming magic, however. They'd only need a special spell to do this more efficiently. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Jul 2021 : 15:40:42
The Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover had an arcane healing spell, but it was not an efficient one. A wizard could cast the 7th-level spell The Simbul's Synostodweomer, then immediately case another memorized spell (it had to be a memorized one), and the second spell would be converted to healing magic -- 2 hp per level of spell. And then the wizard could heal themselves or one person touched with that magic.
It's not a spell I can see being used oft. Sure, there are scenarios in which it could prove useful, but not many. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 25 Jul 2021 : 11:28:22
In the old "non-advanced" D&D there were healing spells available to wizards.
Also, in several of the realms novels, including at least two of the Elminster novels, there are wizard spells that heal. Also, El uses other means for healing magic like converting magic into healing power.
Also, there is the "heal self" spell attributed to the phaerim. I twisted it so that their spells were originally elvish, and they adjusted them for themselves (yes this is not canon). Original versions can still be found locked away in kiira.
The one that comes most clearly to mind from the novels is the spell of Karsus that heals among those that Elminster peruses in Temptation. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 24 Jul 2021 : 03:16:32
On page 1140 of the 2e Wizard's Spell Compendium Vol. 4, there is a list of the spells for the optional Healer Mage. It has Cure Light Wounds as 1st level. However, for a Healer Mage, it says this:
"Schools barred include alteration, conjuration, greater divination, illusion/phantasm, invocation/evocation, all spells of necromancy save those that have healing or curing effects, and all other specially schools. Universal spells are allowed." |
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 24 Jul 2021 : 01:32:36
Sages and other learned people, the answer is easily construed in the spells wish & limited wish from the 3.x era. Wish has this as part of its description duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 7th level or lower and duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.. Limited Wish has a similarly worded duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools, and duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 4th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools. Those spells may also have the ability to heal wounds, maladies, and afflictions but that is not the important takeaway. Instead, we can see how arcane casters can make and use the curative spells reserved for divine casters and why they would not be as popular in a mage's repertoire.
Between Wish & Limited Wish the constraining factor has remained the same, a 2-3 level difference in casting slots to achieve the same effects. Therefore, the arcane spell version of Cure Light Wounds would occupy the same slot as Fireball (3rd level) at best and Greater Invisibility (4th level) at worst. These spells would be poor choices for adventurers optimizing for dungeon crawls, but useful to have during down time within the protection of civilizations. The reasons we don't see these published is the same reason we don't see other spells that aid governance, ease adjudication, or otherwise make the work of accountants and bureaucrats better - BORING! |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 23 Jul 2021 : 14:44:11
What is the reference to spell turning being connected to the Positive Energy plane? I would like to see if there is anything else that can be gleaned from that. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 23 Jul 2021 : 14:12:16
Another one!
quote:
from Calimport, p.91
...
- Annulus Qysarus Major and Minor: Shoon IV's major ring alone acted as a ring of spell turning; the minor ring functioned singly as a ring of spell storing. But when worn together, the rings
combined these two powers with that of a ring of vampiric regeneration [sic]. This power absorbs spell energy and transfers into hit points for the wearer of both rings. Likewise, the wearer can
give up his own hit points to increase damage of spells stored in the minor ring. For example, a stored fireball and the sacrifice of 1d10 hp, each damage die adds +1 point of damage
(a 6d6 fireball would therefore gain a +6 bonus to damage). ...
Remember how spell turning has a strange connection with Positive energy plane?.. AFAIK, that was 2nd time it was used deliberately (the first was Internal Conjuration Engine). |
| Arivia |
Posted - 26 Nov 2016 : 21:08:00
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
I don't see a reference to planar domains on that prestige class page.
I am sorry, I gave you a wrong link. Here is a correct one:
http://www.realmshelps.net/deities/index.shtml
Especially Planar Domains part at the end.
Okay, my response still stands: Planar domains aren't from an FR source. Just ignore them. |
| Alexander Clark |
Posted - 26 Nov 2016 : 14:16:04
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
I don't see a reference to planar domains on that prestige class page.
I am sorry, I gave you a wrong link. Here is a correct one:
http://www.realmshelps.net/deities/index.shtml
Especially Planar Domains part at the end. |
| Gyor |
Posted - 24 Nov 2016 : 22:05:22
Southern Magician Feat allowed Arcane spell casters to cast Arcane spells as Divine Spells and Divine Spells Casters Divine Spells as Arcane Spells. Was crazy broken when the Archivist came out.
As for Bards, they're Arcane Spells fluff wise straddle the gap between Divine and Arcane. Fluff wise they're Arcane, but how the magic works is actually simular to how the Gods use magic.
And then their is the secret magical lore feature, where they can poach spells from any spellcasting class (uncertain if Psionic counts, but all divine and Arcane Classes do), fluff wise if taking spells from the Paladin or Cleric spell lists counts as divine magic or if, Bards find a way to dupilcate the magic spell with their normal arcane magic. Normally its whatever the type of magic the class usually casts, such as a Light Cleric casting divine magic fireballs, but the Bard and its fluff is different, its clear that Bards learn it from other classes and sources.
In 5e Unearthed Arcana has done a Wizard subclass who can take the spells of a clerics divine domain, including the life domain, which means Arcane healing spells.
Also their is the Favoured Soul who is a Divine Sorceror subclass for sorceror, but as I said I think its intended that spells count as Divine unlike other Sorcerors. |
| Arivia |
Posted - 24 Nov 2016 : 04:59:12
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander Clark
So most people here seem to agree that clerics need a deity to cast their spells. However a site that frequently gets linked on this forums states otherwise:
quote:
realmshelps.net
Though some of the domains below mention deities that can grant access to their followers a cleric need not select a specific deity to have access to a planar domain. A cleric who devotes himself to a specific alignment (LG, NG, CG, LN, CN, LE, NE, or CE) rather than a deity can select a planar domain in place of his two normal domain choices.
http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/realms/jordainvizier.shtml
So which source is right?
I don't see a reference to planar domains on that prestige class page. However, planar domains are from a non-FR 3e source (the Planar Handbook) and do not follow FR rules. Always follow the original text; websites can be wrong, even our vaunted halls here. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 24 Nov 2016 : 04:49:08
Yes, it seems like a less powerful version of her Synostodweomer. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 24 Nov 2016 : 04:39:44
There's also a 4e Ritual called Simbul's Conversion, 1st level.
Favored by ritual casters accustomed to long battles and constant warfare, Simbul’s Conversion allows an individual to convert powerful spells into healing reserves. The Simbul taught this ritual to many of her apprentices, and it has since become widely employed as an emergency resource.
After performing this ritual, you sacrifice any number of unused daily arcane powers and regain an equal number of healing surges. You cannot exceed your normal maximum number of healing surges per day. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 24 Nov 2016 : 04:36:02
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
4e had this as well Synostodweomer
In 3.5 you could also be a domain mage and ask the DM if you could grab the healing domain. There was also Arcane Devotion feat which allowed access to 1 domain if your Wisdom was high enough.
That spell is actually much older than 4e, and it was created by the Simbul: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Synostodweomer
Correct. Sorry I didn't mean to imply that it was just a 4e thing, more to show the notion of arcane healing applies across multiple editions. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 24 Nov 2016 : 02:02:49
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
4e had this as well Synostodweomer
In 3.5 you could also be a domain mage and ask the DM if you could grab the healing domain. There was also Arcane Devotion feat which allowed access to 1 domain if your Wisdom was high enough.
That spell is actually much older than 4e, and it was created by the Simbul: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Synostodweomer |
| Alexander Clark |
Posted - 24 Nov 2016 : 00:41:20
So most people here seem to agree that clerics need a deity to cast their spells. However a site that frequently gets linked on this forums states otherwise:
quote:
realmshelps.net
Though some of the domains below mention deities that can grant access to their followers a cleric need not select a specific deity to have access to a planar domain. A cleric who devotes himself to a specific alignment (LG, NG, CG, LN, CN, LE, NE, or CE) rather than a deity can select a planar domain in place of his two normal domain choices.
http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/realms/jordainvizier.shtml
So which source is right? |
| Diffan |
Posted - 23 Nov 2016 : 12:35:40
4e had this as well Synostodweomer
In 3.5 you could also be a domain mage and ask the DM if you could grab the healing domain. There was also Arcane Devotion feat which allowed access to 1 domain if your Wisdom was high enough.
|
| TBeholder |
Posted - 23 Nov 2016 : 11:52:31
quote:
Originally posted by Shizknight
But in many Faerun novels I've read there is many instances of mages healing others. Were all of these just that they had a level of cleric?
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
In the realms there are spells of an arcane nature which would allow for healing... but they are hard and complex compared to Divine healing spells. So just as a marathon running specialist doesn't compete in weightlifting, arcane caster don't usually develop healing spells.
There's another set of possibilities: alchemy.
According to Volo’s Guide to All Things Magical -
- Bluestone (ditroite): powdered + water + any magical radiance = minor healing potion (neutralize poison or cures 1d2 HP), or boost to existing healing potion (neutralize poison and cures 1d4 HP).
- Dioptase: stone + any enchanted liquid = minor healing potion (cure 1 HP).
- Emerald: gives extra charges and slow recharging if included in a healing item.
- Orblen: converts healing spells into revitalizing and slowly healing magical radiation (without being expended).
- Star Ruby: powdered + knock + wraithform = healing mist (elixir of health + regeneration + heal + limited restoration, works via inhalation on mammals only)
- Topaz: absorbs and releases (by dissolving) healing spells
- Ulvaen (amblygonite): closes and cures wounds by touch.
I'd assume that at least some of these effects can be exploitable without consumption in enchanted items.
Such as e.g. an item using bluestone and orblen (and something else) in a right sort of meld could work minor healing by feeding on some radiance spells - something like each round of being wrapped in faerie fire (or interacting with its continuous version) gives a saving throw vs. present poisons + cures 1d2 HP, and the wearer receives saving throw bonus (or ST reroll, or even negation for the wearer only with dispel check) vs. instant poison effects while active and vs. toxic radiances like green beam of prismatic spray even if inactive. |
| Aravine |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 17:23:37
quote:
Originally posted by freyar
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Dragons can cast healing spells correct? And sorcerers derive their powers from (among other things perhaps) draconic heritage correct? Shouldn't sorcerers therefore have access to healing spells?
It depends on the breed of dragon. Some dragons can cast cleric spells as sorcerers, but not all. In addition, I think that bit about sorcerers being descended from dragons is more fluff than crunch. Maybe there is a heritage feat that would let you add spells to the sorc/wizard spell list, though.
but there is that thing where sorcerers cast stuf in the Draconomicon(some of it) at +1 level |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 17:23:04
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Dragons can cast healing spells correct? And sorcerers derive their powers from (among other things perhaps) draconic heritage correct? Shouldn't sorcerers therefore have access to healing spells?
My guess is that the bloodline would have been so diluted by the time the character was born that they just had an inborn talent for general arcane spells, not draconic bloodline specific ones. Anyways, dragon blood is only one way to obtain sorcerous powers. Celestial blood and infernal blood are the other two ways. Check out the Draconic Heritage feats in Complete Arcane and the Celesital and Fiendish Heritage feats in Player's Handbook II. |
| freyar |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 17:21:10
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Dragons can cast healing spells correct? And sorcerers derive their powers from (among other things perhaps) draconic heritage correct? Shouldn't sorcerers therefore have access to healing spells?
It depends on the breed of dragon. Some dragons can cast cleric spells as sorcerers, but not all. In addition, I think that bit about sorcerers being descended from dragons is more fluff than crunch. Maybe there is a heritage feat that would let you add spells to the sorc/wizard spell list, though. |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 01:53:12
Dragons can cast healing spells correct? And sorcerers derive their powers from (among other things perhaps) draconic heritage correct? Shouldn't sorcerers therefore have access to healing spells? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 22:05:52
Damaran Blood Mages often heal with arcane magic according to a 2nd edition resource. The fact that this works easily into 3rd edition mechanics as well is just great. After all, Ilmater is worshipped in Damara heavily. Ilmater is one of the FEW gods with the healing domain, which is all cure spells. Arcane disciple feat allows you to cast spells from a domain of your god as arcane spells. Thus, wizards in Damara following Ilmater take the arcane disciple feat and can double as healers. The one problem with this is you need a decent wisdom, but then if you have some Damaran wizard-monks who learned at the monastery of the yellow rose... having a decent wisdom & dex instead of just a decent dex is appreciated since you can't wear armor. I also liked a build I did for the ex-red wizard, Myrddin Viligoth, who rode with the Twilight Riders at the behest of Gareth Dragonsbane... wizard/red wizard/paladin/arcane devotee/war weaver... having arcane disciple(healing) and war weaver levels was very interesting in an army commander.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
| Mirza |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 00:28:04
Well, spellfire can heal, but not every mage really has access to that... |
| Brynweir |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 00:04:38
Okay, so it's not true in FR.
I know that the gods play a huge role in everyday life and that you MUST have a patron diety for divine spells. I would still like to know, even if it is from Core, how they cast divine spells wihtout a patron diety.
(Sorry this is off topic.) |
| turox |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 23:47:03
From page 33 of the 3.5 PHB "Druids cast divine spells much the same way clerics do, though most get their spells from the power of nature rather than from deities." In the FRCS on page 8 "Every cleric chooses a patron deity." I am not sure where it says that druids, paladins, and rangers has to as I don't have the FRCS memorized yet. (Sage, Wooly?)  But I have read many times here and on the WotC forums that if you want to cast divine magic you must choose a patron deity.
Short answer (too late?) that statement is for the Core not the Realms. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 23:43:05
quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I really don't use magic often, so there is a lot I don't understand.
One question: on the divine bard it says "Like druids, paladins, and rangers, divine bards need not designate a specific deity as the source of their spells."
If these classes do not designate a diety how do they get their spells?
Hmm, is that from one of the core (that is, non-FR) supplements? Generic D&D allows characters to cast divine spells without a deity, but that is not the case in the FR setting, specifically. |
