| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| althen artren |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 23:57:33
I have seen many terms and items that I don't
recognize. I used to consider myself fairly
knowlidgable about D&D but now realize how
limited my knowledge was. Can somebody try
explain to me the terms: dabus, Touni, Ordials,
Ulgurshek orifice, immortals, and try and tie them
tinto some kind of psuedo theory. |
| 6 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 May 2012 : 20:06:30
Just remember that all of this is built off of the work started by Gary Gygax and his great wheel, and all the lore added to it by many others over the years (most especially Ed Greenwood), and a good working-knowledge of all the novels those folk read that inspired them (Roger Zelazny, Jack Vance, Tolkien, Robert Howard, Michael Moorcock, etc..)
It's not so much as as 'creating' material, but rather seeing "the big picture" those that came before also saw, and simply adding our own small pieces to it.
The nature of the universe is to remain a mystery - without the enigma, the experiment becomes pointless.
EDIT: And people like Shemmy and Gray Richardson (amongst others) have been doing this far longer then I, and I constantly bow to their superior knowledge in this area. Everyone does their part, and tries to build onto the amazing work of art that is the D&D cosmology. I don't have a theory - I have a seed of truth that grows in directions I never expected, but is never quite complete. The cosmology is a living thing, which grows and changes just like anything else. The more information we collect, the more we realize how little we truly know.
But isn't that the fun of it all? The journey?  |
| althen artren |
Posted - 26 May 2012 : 04:22:22
As I said above, I used to think myself as knowledgable about D&D, and know
consider myself at the "Saint" level of Markus homebrew organization of cosmology.
I have never had a comprehensive library of DD material, and now see how quasi-theories
from one person tie with a theory from another person, which fits together with a homebrew
from somebody else. I am just overwhelmed by it all. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 20:50:49
-Dabus are the Lady of Pain's "servants" that do things for her, such as service Sigil. They are basically yellow near-humans that float and do not really interact with others. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 17:35:23
'Ordials' is my term for the group of beings above deities, and I feel there are at least three 'tiers' within that group.
'Prime' Ordials (primordials) are the ones we are most familiar with, and the lowest tier - they are the cosmic 'caretakers' of the prime Material Plane. They are the equivalent to greater (Planer) Titans - the ones found in Olympus and elsewhere - and represent the natural forces of the world (elements & energies).
The tier directly above them - Intermediate Ordials - would be Overgods. Think of this group as the 'Overseers' (foreman) of the primordials originally... although that has changed quite a bit since the Age before Ages. Each is in-charge of a specific Sphere (which isn't always a crystal sphere - demi-planes can be included).
There is a tier above, that represent 'Cosmic Concepts' - I used to call these being Conceptuals, and they are the equivalent of Marvel Comics' cosmic beings.
Below the Ordials are the exarchs - the gofers that do all the day-to-day stuff in the universe (this includes angels, fiends, etc). This is the cosmic 'labor-pool'.
Deities are fairly new concept - they are ascended mortals (Immortals) - compared to the others; they did not arise until after the Age before ages, and are a byproduct of death itself (you cannot have the concept of immortality without it). Deities actually fall outside of the normal scheme of things, the way the universe was intended... or are they? They are the only beings that can act as a conduit for mortal faith and convert it into usable energy; any non-deity able to do so must make a deal with a deity to share some of its power, or absorb the essence of a mortal (and thus gain a connection to the mortal overmind which a deity taps-into).
'Gods' refers to anyone above exarch level... and occasionally include exarchs {demi-powers in particular). It's really just a mortal catch-all for extra-planer beings of great power.
This is primarily homebrew, from my own musings, just to get all the categories of beings into a simpler format. The term 'Immortals' comes from Mystara (OD&D) - a 'world without gods'... which simply means they have a deeper understanding of the multiverse and how it works (probably thanks to the Blackmoor civilization, but that's a whole 'nother cosmic ball of wax).
Ordials: I thought I was the very first to come up with that term - and thought myself rather clever  - but it turns out some folks have had the idea of an Ordial Plane, which while intriguing, is different then my own usage for the word. Of course, it's fairly easy to combine the two (Greater Ordials could dwell in the Ordial Plane). |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 01:11:09
Agreed, Immortals are basically pretty much the same thing as Gods, Primordials, whatever you (or they) prefer they be called - creatures of a divine order, higher than "mortals". In most D&D they require some sort of worshippers or followers to sustain their power, and in return they grant spellcasting and/or special powers to their faithful, priests, or champions. It would be difficult to rank Immortal-vs-God in terms of game rules because they usually exist in what amount to being entirely different games. It should be noted that "Immortals" are usually actually immortal, unkillable, ageless - but (just like gods) some might age or be slain or be little more than the current occupants/holders of a certain "office" or "station".
Dabus are a race native to Sigil. They are sentient but communicate only in rebuses (they project floating images or glyphs to make word-puzzle-statements). They float around instead of walking and (like everything else in Planescape) are basically bizarre. The entire race (with only one known exception) seem to all be unquestioningly loyal and obedient servants of The Lady ... they tirelessly maintain all the "civil engineering" aspects and operations in Sigil (always busy hammering razorvine, repairing or constructing, moving trash, digging, burying, moving, etc etc). Some sources speculate that the dabus are constructs (controlled by the Lady like avatars, or some sort of distributed/parallel intelligence) instead of a normal race. None have been known to ever leave Sigil. They have as much or as little personality as any other NPC and tend to be about as cooperative as necessary to move the story along, but no more, preferring instead to focus uninterrupted on their individual tasks. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 00:42:38
I'll throw out the Immortals bit:
Immortals are simply Gods in the World of Mystara.
In the "Basic" Dungeons and Dragons game, the setting was devoted to the world of Mystara, where places such as the Empire of Thyatis and the Empire of Alphatia existed alongside smaller nations such as the Dwarven Clans of Rockhome, the Grand Duchy of Karameikos, the Elves of Alfheim, the Halfling lands of the Five Shires and etc.
In this particular version of the game, you could advance your character to level 36 in one of the basic classes (such as Fighter, Cleric, Thief and Wizard); but Demi-Humans WERE a class (An Elf was from the Elf Class and so on!).
Once reaching level 36 you could begin a "Path" to Immortality. Once you achieved that goal, your character actually joined the Pantheon of Immortals and was considered an Immortal too. They were often careful not to use the word God...but the Immortals Boxed Set actually allowed you to play a God. It even had rules for an Immortal to create races and worlds I believe.
When the setting was brought into 2nd Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons via the "Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure" boxed set; they marginalized the Immortals and they were no longer available for play, and so the Immortals were then treated much more like Gods in other campaign settings. |
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