| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ifthir |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 02:09:33
Next up, subraces. I have here my current list, and I am hoping to know if any are wrong only! Thanks in advance to any help any can provide.
Dragon
--Amethyst
--Black
--Blue
--Bronze
--Copper
--Deep
(?)Drow-Dragon
--Emerald
--Fang
--Gold
--Green
--Mist
--Red
--Sapphire
--Shadow
--Silver
--Song
--Steel
--Topaz
--White
Dwarf
--Arctic
(?) Derro
--Duergar
--Gold
--Shield
(?) Urdunnir
Elf
(?)Aquatic
(?)Avariel
--Moon (Silver)
--Sun (Gold)
--Drow
--Star
--Wild
--Wood
Giant
--Frost
--Hill
(?)Maur
--Stone
--Storm
Goblinoid
--Goblin
--Hobgoblin
(?)Kobold
Gnome
--Deep
--Rock
Halfling
--Ghostwise
--Lightfoot
--Strongheart
Naga
(?)Spirit Naga
Orc
--Orog
Planetouched
--Aasimar
--Air Genasi
--Earth Genasi
--Fey'ri
--Fire Genasi
(?)Githyanki
(?)Githzerai
--Tanarukk
--Tiefling
--Water Genasi
Yuan-ti
--Abomination
--Halfblood
--Pureblood
--Tainted One |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 00:06:13
Sorry Ifthir. I should not have allowed this scroll to run so far off-topic.
Right, back to the topic now fellow scribes.  |
| Ifthir |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 00:01:56
*waves goodbye to the thread* |
| Nerfed2Hell |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 23:02:12
I know I've kept Leira secretly alive as part of the big lie... channelling just enough of her incoming worship toward Cyric to keep him unaware of the truth, and her followers expect everything is a lie anyhow.
Leira died? Lie.
Cyric took over her portfolio? Lie.
Leira is really alive and letting Cyric believe she's dead? Lie.
Rasberry jam is a tastey treat? Lie. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 22:53:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Yeah, they were Leira-worshipers, and Cyric took over her portfolio when he killed her (provided that wasn't all a big lie, of course - you never know with Leira).
Yup. So as long as he maintained the illusion and kept the spells flowing, all Leirans were worshipping him.
Heh. I could've sworn another scribe kinda already said something like that.   |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 19:10:35
Ah, Okay...
So they WERE still worshipping Leira - he was just pulling a fast one.
Still... this deal could have been struck way back then. Going by the 'Dark Prophesies' or whatever Shar's roll is called, she had a lot riding on Cyric's ascension, so it makes sense she approached him immediatly following his divinity.
I had always thought he and Mask shouldn't have been able to trick Leira so easily, and if Shar was also involved, it makes even more sense to me now. Shar literally "offerred him the moon", and then helped him blind-side Leira (Shar being the only god who had more power over 'veiled secrets' then Leira herself did).
See? You can make anything work, if you fiddle with it long enough.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 17:01:24
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Yeah, they were Leira-worshipers, and Cyric took over her portfolio when he killed her (provided that wasn't all a big lie, of course - you never know with Leira).
Yup. So as long as he maintained the illusion and kept the spells flowing, all Leirans were worshipping him. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 16:31:37
Yeah, they were Leira-worshipers, and Cyric took over her portfolio when he killed her (provided that wasn't all a big lie, of course - you never know with Leira). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 15:25:08
He did? 
I admit that I was just 'skimming' the source yesterday for other stuff, but I only see mention of Leira (and I'm holding it in my hands as I type).
I'll re-read the entire section of Selune again... I must have missed something. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 15:09:01
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Now, picturing the moon becoming the home of a band of Cyric-worshippers is pretty damn cool. It also makes some sense - I would imagine that Leira had some sort of deal with Selūne concerning the 'caretaking' of the moon, and Shar would have wanted to grab anything that Selūne could eventually turn into another power-base for herself.
Perhaps the moon was part of the deal - Shar gives Cyric the moon, in exchange for his help killing Mystra.
Considering how the moon was presented in 2e - as a resort of sorts - I can picture an entire 'Motel Hell' stoty-arc taking place there, with a little Norman Bates (Psycho) and Friday the 13th (the whole 'camp Crystal Lake' thing).
"Spelljammers chack-in... but the don't check out!" 
Maybe even use a little of the Dusk 'till Dawn angle, except instead of vampires (which could also be cool), the Cyric worshippers drug 'clients' and sell them to Illithids.
That... doesn't work for me. Cyric already had the worship of those on the moon -- why would he need to make a deal for it? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 14:46:18
Now, picturing the moon becoming the home of a band of Cyric-worshippers is pretty damn cool. It also makes some sense - I would imagine that Leira had some sort of deal with Selūne concerning the 'caretaking' of the moon, and Shar would have wanted to grab anything that Selūne could eventually turn into another power-base for herself.
Perhaps the moon was part of the deal - Shar gives Cyric the moon, in exchange for his help killing Mystra.
Considering how the moon was presented in 2e - as a resort of sorts - I can picture an entire 'Motel Hell' stoty-arc taking place there, with a little Norman Bates (Psycho) and Friday the 13th (the whole 'camp Crystal Lake' thing).
"Spelljammers check-in... but the don't check out!"
Maybe even use a little of the Dusk 'till Dawn angle, except instead of vampires (which could also be cool), the Cyric worshippers drug 'clients' and sell them to Illithids. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 12:33:39
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Brian also included a bit of it in his Realmslore article, when he mentioned the moon losing it's illusion.
If it wasn't for that bit, I'd have said that the illusion was another problematic factor. I'm still a little curious about who maintained the illusion after Leira's death -- and why. I've also long wondered why Selūne didn't have any presence there.
Before that tidbit from Brian, my own thoughts suggested that Leira's illusion simply wasn't what it used to be after her death. It may have decayed somewhat, since with Leira herself now gone, the worshippers had nothing to pray to in order to continue benefiting from Leira's "gift." Cyric taking on the illusion is an interesting prospect, perhaps even having him posing as Leira for a time. Though, I'd imagine he only did that because he felt he could eventually turn this sizable portion of Leiran-worshippers to him and increase his power beyond Toril itself.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 07:26:03
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Brian also included a bit of it in his Realmslore article, when he mentioned the moon losing it's illusion.
If it wasn't for that bit, I'd have said that the illusion was another problematic factor. I'm still a little curious about who maintained the illusion after Leira's death -- and why. I've also long wondered why Selūne didn't have any presence there. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 23:19:00
You mean, like why do the Shou use a gate to get to the Inner Sea, when they could just fly on over? 
That has always been my main complaint with SJ - its great unto itself, but it will wreak Havoc with a groundling campaign.
I like Beholder bartenders, though - I just HAD TO use THAT somewhere. 
Brian also included a bit of it in his Realmslore article, when he mentioned the moon losing it's illusion.
Edit: Concerning Nimbral...
Maybe that is why they don't bother with the rest of FR...
They are quite literally far more cosmopolitan.  |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 23:15:49
-Wooly now why did I think of Men in Black just now.
BRIMSTONE |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 23:15:34
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As much as I like Realmspace, just about every aspect of its entry on Toril is problematic, from a Realms-centric standpoint. Some things in that book have never been mentioned anywhere else in any Realms product, and at least one bit -- the description of Nimbral as a spaceport -- all but contradicts other lore.
It's slightly in-tune with the bits about Nimbral in Into the Void, though.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 23:10:50
As much as I like Realmspace, just about every aspect of its entry on Toril is problematic, from a Realms-centric standpoint. Some things in that book have never been mentioned anywhere else in any Realms product, and at least one bit -- the description of Nimbral as a spaceport -- all but contradicts other lore.
So for me, Realmspace is a great book for everything but Toril. For that, I still with Realms-only sources. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 19:07:42
I'm going through this source again (Realmspace), and I have to correct myself -
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We have those beady-eyed Halflings from Coliar(?), and also a race of 'Space Dragons' - IMMENSE versions of terrestrial ones, and Elminster is friends with an ancient Red one (who helps gaurd his 'space station').
I think there is also a race of very advanced Lizaedmen as well, but its been a LONG time since I went through that source.
The Lizarmen are from Coliar... the Halflings are actually from Anadia.
Also found some rather interesting tidbits about the Moonshaes I think Brian would be interested in.
Specifically, the stuff about Caer Windlaur; you just never know where good Realmslore is going to turn up.
Imagine... a guild of Assassins in the Moonshaes.... |
| Ifthir |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 14:55:39
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also - who do you think the 'Great Wheel' was originally built for?
The Great Cosmic Space Hamster! 
The biggest mother of them all.
kept the stupid bugger busy for aeons...
Gah, give us our thread back you plushy hamster lovers! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 14:41:12
Also - who do you think the 'Great Wheel' was originally built for?
The Great Cosmic Space Hamster!
The biggest mother of them all.
kept the stupid bugger busy for aeons... |
| ranger_of_the_unicorn_run |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 14:12:49
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Space dragons ... basard of the space hamster and dragons?
Even dragons can't get enough of that Giant Space Hamster lovin'.
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Some people call him the Space Hamster.
Some call him the Hamster of Love.
Some people call him Maurice,
'Cause he squeaks of the pompatus of love.
Are we wandering back into the territory LHO hinted at while we were talking about "dragon drip"? Now Wooly, remember to use protection. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 13:46:05
Of course Colossal Space Dragons love Giant Space Hamsters...
Everyone needs a food source. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 08:12:49
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Space dragons ... basard of the space hamster and dragons?
Even dragons can't get enough of that Giant Space Hamster lovin'.
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Some people call him the Space Hamster.
Some call him the Hamster of Love.
Some people call him Maurice,
'Cause he squeaks of the pompatus of love.
|
| Sian |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 06:23:56
Space dragons ... basard of the space hamster and dragons? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 22:55:05
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
...and also a race of 'Space Dragons' - IMMENSE versions of terrestrial ones, and Elminster is friends with an ancient Red one (who helps gaurd his 'space station').
Ah, I've got it! That's where the giant alien dragon overlords of Krynn's Five Age came from.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 16:02:54
I think the Dragonborn were experiments of the Dragons, although I may be getting confused, because 4e Dragonborn are not the same as 3e Dragonborn were.
I read the origins of the 4e Dragonborn, but I can't seem to recall the details, which is weird, because I usually have a pretty good memory, and that wasn't that long ago.
IIRC, the new 'Kewl' version were closer in origins to the Draconians, but once again, I may be mixing things up here.
As for the Kobolds, I have races of the Dragon, but just never bothered to read the section on Kobolds, so I'm not certain about their canon origins either.
Although thats core, so I'm not even sure if it would even be considered 'FR canon' - it depends if the lore is setting-specific, or multi-spheric (as the stuff on Bahamut should be).
I suppose I should go back and read that section now.. but I just never found the little buggers all that interesting.
Edit: And before I get admonishhed, I really should post something closer to the topic.
We also need to know if this is Toril-specific FR, or Realmspace in general - there is a difference. We have those beady-eyed Halflings from Coliar(?), and also a race of 'Space Dragons' - IMMENSE versions of terrestrial ones, and Elminster is friends with an ancient Red one (who helps gaurd his 'space station').
I think there is also a race of very advanced Lizaedmen as well, but its been a LONG time since I went through that source. |
| ErskineF |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 15:53:37
Perhaps that's how the dragonborn came about, interbreeding with kobolds. 'Dragonborn' just sounds a lot better than 'kobold-spawn'. ;)
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 15:33:11
The best IG explanation for the Kobolds is that they were Goblinoids originally (which in turn were a branch of Unseelie Fey, related to Brownies, at some point in the primordial past), that were experimented on by Dragons using infusions of their own blood. The Dragons managed to create a 'stable version' (Bakemono being an 'unstable' version) of minions using the Goblins as a base creature, and this creature would have looked like a small, feral Goblin at first, but through the years, the Dragon Blood in their heritage carried dominant genes, which have slowly become transcendent.
The 'reptile period' was an in-between stage during which time the Dragon genes were ascerting themselves in the Kobold DNA, and different tribes still exist at different stages, so one can find primitive groups that still look more Goblin-like, while at the same time finding advanced groups with clearly Draconic features.
At least, thats the best explanation I can come-up with, and since the Dragons are an 'Ancient Race', and it appears every Ancient Race experimented and created servitor races, it makes sense the Dragons did likewise with the Kobolds, but the Kobolds are only now fully coming into their own.
I hate when things get retconned, so I always try to find an explanation, even if some of them are rather flimsy.
Anyway, for anyone else interested in Kobolds, I had a link to an artist's Myspace Page with a cover for a D20 book he did (which I don't think ever got published) all about Kobolds. The picture featured several cool-looking Kobold character-types, but he has since taken the large pic off his MySpace Page (to put up new ones). You can still see a smaller version HERE, in his portfolio, but you'll have to scroll down a bit - its in the first column, 7th row down.
The larger pic was better, but at least you won't have to go to Myspace to see it, which is probably the worst site in the universe for viruses and Malware I have ever encountered.
Oh... and my apologies for slipping slightly off-topic with too much 'Koboldery'.
Also, I just realized that in 4e, Kobold's would be considered 'little cousins' of Dragonborn, who have obviously robbed a lot of their thunder now. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 02:56:28
Even though I am anti-Wikipedia, this has some good info on the origins of Kobolds.
*Edit: Gah, better to copy and paste. The whole link will not parse because of the parenthesis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)
Basically, the Race has evolved over the various editions of D&D and are less Reptilian and more Draconic with each iteration. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 18:04:09
And kobolds are reptilians |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 17:09:30
So are Urdunnir - they are sort of like (Earth) Elemental-blooded Dwarves.
Or a cross (kinda) between Galed Duhr and Dwarves. |
