| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sean_Derry |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 06:11:21
I hope I'm posting this in the right forum. Here's my problem. Last year, I played in what was arguably one of the best campaigns I've ever been in. The plot was inventive, our mix of PCs was a good/fun one and I looked forward to gaming every week.
The problem- Our GM. Or, I should clarify, I have a problem, non-game related, with the GM. He treated a very dear (female) friend of mine worse than dirt, harassed this friend, etc. to the point that she was having hysterics and I was just about ready to haul off and hit him one IRL if he gave me the excuse. He didn't. He made a point of never saying anything about her in front of me, always keeping it to weird things like staring at her from across the room. I noticed this, it bugged me, but what was I going to do- go over and tell him to keep his eyes on his table? So for three months I let the situation stand as it was, I'd sympathise with my friend, let her talk to me, whatever she needed. But I'd still go to the game every week. Towards the end, it was getting more than a little awkward. Occasionally I'd forget myself and my character would get a little more sarcastic than usual about various parts of the game.
Next part of the problem- Despite all this, the game ended on a TBC'ed note, _and_ for some stupid reason, I want back in. But then, I think of my friend and how upset she was and I'm not so sure I want back in after all. Btw, she'll be out of the area for the next three months of game play. Advice, anyone? I haven't talked to the GM about his bad behaviour, I've glared at him and I'm almost certain he knows how angry I am with him, but I don't know what to do! This is the only game going anywhere nearby and I don't want to have to strike out on my own. I'd also feel bad about not giving some of my fellow players fair warning about what a psycho this GM can be out of game...
Advice? Please? |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 18:41:31
I'm not a pschologist, nor an FBI profiler, but I can tell you with some certainty that that individual is dangerous. I have a Social Science degree, and my major was pschology (I was going for Special Education). I'm no expert, but I did take two semesters of Abnormal Psychology.
There is something called escalation of behaviour, and your DM appears to have all the classic symptoms. In the RW he is a loner and a bit of an outcast, and his social skills leave him in a position of inferiority. He has found D&D as an outlet - by being the DM he is in CONTROL. He feels important, and therefore PREFERS the fantasy world to the reality. In HIS world, he truly believes your friend and he were going out. That was because she went out on a single date with him. You must remember, that whatever level a relationship is at in the RW, he will imagine it at the NEXT level.
Your friend is VERY lucky that he has become interested in another - the next step for him would have been to break into her place and steal a few personal items. Don't laugh - this happened too my sister. The guy started off a peeping Tom and wound up thinking my sister was his ex-girlfriend or something (he would make phone calls to her after getting our number, and after speaking to her he imagined that they had a relationship). When he was caught (we put a trace on out phone), it turned out to be a guy on the next block, and they found my sister's underwear in his room (he had been stealing a pair off the line almost once a week for a year).
You might think that is funny, but it's not. The courts decided the guy 'had problems' and let him go with a few months probabtion. A few years later we read about him in the paper - he had ATTACKED a girl. If a girl ever agrees to date that DM she is in a LOT of trouble - he will most likely pretend that they are engaged, and become violent when she withdraws. He is the classic case of a social reject living in a fantasy world, and using his 'power' (DMing) as a means to get what he wants. This is EXACTLY the kind of D&D player the press has a field day with, and it could only end badly.
Distance yourself from this guy, and start your own group. Do not try to enlist players from HIS group, because he will then identify you as a threat to his personal universe. If he finds out your running a group filled with the girls he considered 'his' you could have all sorts of problems - from tire slashings to something more serious.
As this guy gets older, his fantasies will replace reality more and more, and he WILL do something bad. I only hope that he is caught before someone is hurt. And BTW, Orders of Protection are useles, take it from me. They just tend to infuriate the recipient.
Good Luck with your campaign, and have fun. Don't let the RW drama ruin your enjoyment of an excellent game |
| Wenin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 15:29:33
First, you only have one side of the story, and I'd advise to not jump to conclusions.
Nevertheless, I also agree, you should start your own gaming group. Hopefully salvage the spark of a gamer that is within Mandy, and pull in Brian and Tanya. Add a couple more, and you should have a fun group it would seem, as I find gaming is more enjoyable among friends.
I only offer a word of warning to not turn your new group into a bitch session about the old DM. It will do no good to add that poison to your game.
If Mandy feels threatened, then I'd also suggest that you discuss this with the old GM. If it continues, and is of the level that should involve the police, then definately do so. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 01:54:38
quote:
Originally posted by Sean_Derry
Does this clarify anything at all?
It does.
It sounds like this GM is passive-aggressive and stalkerish towards women in general. You can't make him change (period), but your female friend should avoid him entirely. And since you don't seem to like him either...well, why hang out with someone like that? As said before, who needs it? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 01:49:16
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
First off - he said there was no other game available, so that means giving up D&D, at least for now.
That can't be worse than the situation as described. Why play a game if it's not fun? Again, your mileage may vary. |
| Delzounblood |
Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 22:17:37
My first reaction would be .... NO I have been in trouble for doing that to people before too many times.
so I would say as echoed by others, Set up your own group and lose this idiot GM!!
You and the young lady in question do not need that issue in your gaming or real life.
I'm sure you can find other players to join your breakaway group.
But remember do not do anything rash, it can backfire on you.
BUT if he continues to be a pest then report him to the campus or police!
Do not let him ruin your RPG or your life.
Delz |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 17:14:19
Well, I would have to say - yes you have!! And I can only support that for after your clarifying post - I think the DM is being a total jurk (sp?)!!! - NO mean NO and harrasingand blackmailing people to make them change their mind is stupid and respectless!
Therefore, you should stick to your friend and start your own gaming session. Might turn out to be great fun and better playing with someone you don't like and you have no fun gaming with anyway. Right?!
There you go.......... |
| Sean_Derry |
Posted - 13 Aug 2007 : 08:39:23
First, my computer's been acting up, so I haven't had a chance to reply to this earlier...
For further clarification or confusion of the situation, I shall provide more details. First important detail- our gaming group is at a small university where gaming (video/RPG/LARP/tabletop) is frowned upon to say the least. The GM's a non-traditional student, he's three or four years older than most students.
Timeline
Almost two years ago, I started playing with this GM. I was introduced to this group by an acquaintance of mine, Brian,- not a close friend. Brian and his girlfriend Tonya had been playing for about three months. Then, apparently the GM was making Tonya feel at least a little uncomfortable (pestering her about her relationship with Brian, insinuating that he was interested in her and not getting the hint when she asked nicely for him to stop talking at her) and for this reason, both she and Brian left. However, they didn't tell me why they left until later, they just _left_.
So, I played for about three months before I talked my friend, Mandy, in to coming. She was enthusiastic about it, and she's a kind person. Outside of our gaming group, the GM's a bit socially awkward but when Mandy makes friends, she doesn't just acknowledge them in one place/setting. So if she saw him around, she'd wave or say hi. GM asked her to formal, she said yes. GM proceeded to tell everyone except Mandy that they were going out. Mandy thought they were just friends.
I got a study-abroad opportunity and left for three months. When I left, I had the understanding (from Mandy) that she and the GM were just friends. The GM hadn't said anything to me about his relationship with Mandy, but my friend Steve later told me that the GM was telling anyone who would listen about how he and Mandy were going out.
So, I got back to find Mandy and the GM at odds. Mandy swore she'd never get involved in another RPG on campus- and she didn't. So she's just had to put up with the GM 'passively stalking' (her words, not mine) her around campus. She felt hurt and deceived by him, because she had told him up front that she just wanted to be friends and now he was trying to brow-beat her into something more. If a persuasive argument wouldn't work, he hoped that staring at her, spreading rumours about her, and otherwise making her uncomfortable would.
Because I'd already committed to playing that semester (and because, I will admit, I need a gaming fix of some variety), I was walking a tightrope between playing the game and staying good friends with Mandy. Somehow I made it through the semester- but the game wasn't as much fun as it had been in the past.
Then another player in the game emailed me recently and asked if I'd be returning for this semester. I haven't emailed back yet. I really don't feel I should after the shabby way the GM has treated first Tonya, then Mandy. I suspect the GM is now trying to win the attentions of our newest, boyfriendless female player, Kathy.
The other players in the game are good guys, but they really don't seem to see a problem with all of this- neither Mandy nor Tonya were particularly good friends of any of them.
Does this clarify anything at all? I think I'm yea close to just setting up a game by myself- as much as I don't feel confident as a GM and wouldn't enjoy GMing nearly as much as playing...
Am I getting too concerned about what's going on with other people here? I can't help it, I consider Mandy a friend and I value her friendship more than I do playing... I think. Have I answered my own question?
Advice? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Aug 2007 : 07:30:07
First off - he said there was no other game available, so that means giving up D&D, at least for now. Now onto the advice part -
I don't think we're getting the full story here. It seems as though she isn't playing (she hates the DM, right?). If that is so, why is she in the room? Are you bringing her around? That would be very strange, considering the circumstances. If she's YOUR girlfriend and is acompanying you, then I would say you deserve a night apart. If the setting is a store then why is she there at the same time as the game? Is there another game going on that she IS involved with? Are one or both of them employees of the store? Is she related to the person who owns the home the game is being played in?
We need to know why she MUST be present with a person she dislikes. Also, it sounds as though the two have 'bad blood' (or are they blood?). Something isn't making sense to me here. The only thing I can say to you given what little info we have is that you should speak to him about it. Being on unfriendly terms with your DM seems to me an unplayable situation (unless he IS that GOOD, and can keep his personal feelings out of the game, which is next to impossible, I would think).
All of that being said, I have been 'aware' of at least three different campaigns where DMs used their 'power' to coerce females into 'doing stuff'. The first instance was just my bro-in-laws group. They were all just kids so it was understandable. His buddies couldn't figure out why all of their girlfriends always got pegasus's to ride at first level....
The second instance was a group I played in. The DM was a good friend of mine who happened to be about 10 years older then most of the group. He was thirty, and always dated the 18 year old players... not neccessarily a bad thing.
The third instance I read about in the paper, and it took place at a local comic shop. The middle-aged guy was running games at night for teens at his store... lets just say it ended in an arrest.
I don't know if any of those situations sound familiar, but if its like the first one then its fairly harmless (accept to other's egos), if it like the second one then it is mildly 'gross', but not so much so that you can't talk to him about it.
If it's like the third one, tell someone IMMEDIATELY! The idea of someone using his IG power to control another person's body is disgusting. I sure hope this isn't anything like that. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 Aug 2007 : 01:22:34
quote:
Originally posted by Sean_Derry
I hope I'm posting this in the right forum. Here's my problem. Last year, I played in what was arguably one of the best campaigns I've ever been in. The plot was inventive, our mix of PCs was a good/fun one and I looked forward to gaming every week.
The problem- Our GM. Or, I should clarify, I have a problem, non-game related, with the GM. He treated a very dear (female) friend of mine worse than dirt, harassed this friend, etc. to the point that she was having hysterics and I was just about ready to haul off and hit him one IRL if he gave me the excuse. He didn't. He made a point of never saying anything about her in front of me, always keeping it to weird things like staring at her from across the room. I noticed this, it bugged me, but what was I going to do- go over and tell him to keep his eyes on his table? So for three months I let the situation stand as it was, I'd sympathise with my friend, let her talk to me, whatever she needed. But I'd still go to the game every week. Towards the end, it was getting more than a little awkward. Occasionally I'd forget myself and my character would get a little more sarcastic than usual about various parts of the game.
Next part of the problem- Despite all this, the game ended on a TBC'ed note, _and_ for some stupid reason, I want back in. But then, I think of my friend and how upset she was and I'm not so sure I want back in after all. Btw, she'll be out of the area for the next three months of game play. Advice, anyone? I haven't talked to the GM about his bad behaviour, I've glared at him and I'm almost certain he knows how angry I am with him, but I don't know what to do! This is the only game going anywhere nearby and I don't want to have to strike out on my own. I'd also feel bad about not giving some of my fellow players fair warning about what a psycho this GM can be out of game...
Advice? Please?
If you're so upset with him, why do you keep going back to play? Find another group, one with less "bad blood".
By the way, if *I* was that female friend, I would have left the table immediately if I was treated like you described, and not have gone back for another two weeks. In fact, I honestly do think you should have politely made your feelings known to that GM--in private if not in front of the other gamers. There's nothing wrong with asserting yourself and NOT letting people walk all over you or your friends.
As for getting the other players involved...eh, I say use your discretion with that one, on a person-by-person basis. It's not what I'd be inclined to do, but depending on who these players are it might be a good idea. But I think if the DM is the type to dismiss your concerns off-hand without pressure from the other players (and he most likely will, since by your description he's acting weird on purpose), the situation is likely to be unsalvagable anyway and you should probably just move on. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 21:46:16
Well, I agree with not involving players that aren't part of the issue -- but I think the other players should be asked, first, if they have observed this behavior and are bothered by it. If they don't care, don't pull them in. But it they are bugged, too, and just haven't said anything, by all means, get them involved. It is much easier to dismiss the concerns of one person, as opposed to the identical concerns of many people. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 21:40:59
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
From the information you provided, it doesn't seem apparent that there is a connection between the others of your group and your female friend. It also seemed that she didn't play the game either, it seems she happens to be a mutual friend (or use to be) of the GM and yours. If this is true, then I wouldn't bring your group into the situation. Bringing them into the situation may sour things beyond repair with the GM, and may ruin the game for those that remain after you've left.
I agree with the others that you should communicate to your GM, but this isn't about the game really. It is about the friendship you have with a friend, who happens to be your GM. Get both sides of the story and go from there.
Since we don't know what transpired between them, for all we know you might be able to get things worked out between your two friends.
That is exactly how I understood the situation to be. So I totally agree with what wenin said - if the other players are not involved in the conflict, don't get them involved now. It would just complicate matters, really.
Again, best of luck. Ergdusch |
| Wenin |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 19:17:55
From the information you provided, it doesn't seem apparent that there is a connection between the others of your group and your female friend. It also seemed that she didn't play the game either, it seems she happens to be a mutual friend (or use to be) of the GM and yours. If this is true, then I wouldn't bring your group into the situation. Bringing them into the situation may sour things beyond repair with the GM, and may ruin the game for those that remain after you've left.
I agree with the others that you should communicate to your GM, but this isn't about the game really. It is about the friendship you have with a friend, who happens to be your GM. Get both sides of the story and go from there.
Since we don't know what transpired between them, for all we know you might be able to get things worked out between your two friends.
|
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 14:40:10
After reading your thread Sean_Derry, I felt there were more to the problem then what was shared.
I must agree with the Master of Mischief, but go further; gather all the players and ask them if they have some problems with your GM and talk to them, Maybe ask them what they think that the problem is (there are always to sides of a story).
Thereafter gather and talk it out, gaming should be a good experience fore all players and game masters and trust me it doesn’t help punching him in the head.
We have played fore 20 years now our grope and it feels that we have gone through every problem, - Playing with girls, playing with players that touches other dices and bring unluck upon them, etch…
You have to talk about the problems in the group; it doesn’t help to get irritated, use you’re diplomacy skills.
Happy gaming
Vic
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 12:33:04
You've got to talk to the DM about it... But I'd talk to the other players, first. If the other players are as bugged by what's going on, having everyone say something to the DM (or one person representing everyone) would go further towards making the DM see the error of his ways.
Do we know why he's got the problem with her? Is she a former or current love interest of anyone in the group? Did the DM once have a thing for her and get shot down?
Oh, and if he's doing this during the game, it is affecting her enjoyment of the game and yours, too. That very much makes it game related. |
| Drakul |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 11:49:19
Sounds like conflicts of interest. Personally, if I was in a group where a male GM or DM treated another of the opposite sex for no reason at all, I would cut my losses and move on. I would also continue to console the female friend and find a better group. Its obvious that the GM can't do his job efficiently. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 10:04:10
Well, tis is not nessiccarily game related I'd say, but more a social personal problem. However, I will give you an advice. So take it or leave it, as you like:
First you have to talk with people! Communication is the key to any relationship (Ihave said that before, I believe.........  ).
Now, you can either talk to your friend about her feelings if you play with that "punk" again and get her opinion on that. Or you could have a talk out with your GM about your feelings towards his behavior. Probably you should do both. Now, afterwards you have to weigh and balance out the different points of arguementations and set your priority according to the opinions you have heard freither side.
Now, thats how I would handle it.
Good luck and I hope all works out well for you.
Ergdusch |
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