| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Arik Witchson |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 15:35:36
When we went from 2nd edition to 3rd edition, i was close to ruin for some characters, and to keep to group goin i made up the Blade Bard inspired by the one from 2nd edt. Bard's handbook, since i noticed none that are even close in resemblence as prestige class
Do anyone know a prestige class that resembles Blade Bard?
And heard some oppinions that its too powerful, which i more think is related to its a "homebrew", what u guys think?
Blade Bard as Prestige class is in the following link
http://www.123hjemmeside.dk/Drakul/3654150 |
| 26 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Grandmaster Kane |
Posted - 20 Jan 2007 : 00:20:12
Nothing is to powerful
unless you are a avatar |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 11 Jan 2007 : 08:43:47
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
I did see the blade prestige class you posted (Candlekeep Site Update), and I just want you to say Great job.
Arik Witchson did see the prestige class and said: Wauuu.. he really did it, its goooood!
Thanks for the credit. Bt half goes to Akin for I would not have even started the project without his first shot on the PrC. 
But thanks again! |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 11 Jan 2007 : 02:47:10
I did see the blade prestige class you posted (Candlekeep Site Update), and I just want you to say Great job.
Arik Witchson did see the prestige class and said: Wauuu.. he really did it, its goooood!
|
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 13 Dec 2006 : 20:37:08
Just a bit of information - Arik Witchson is occupied by a dominant female, he will be back,to continue this thread - i hope so. |
| Zimme |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 09:58:06
Hmm good question, off the top of my head(being without my books, at work now). how about awareness as a substitude plus a small positive modifier to spot checks(indicating hightend sensibilities), sounds perfectly plausible to me, but then again so does blind-fighting now that you explained your reasoning.  |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 09:44:19
Hi there, fellow Zimme! No matter what your entrance is like, you are always well come to tune in on this discussion!
I included Blind-Fight to somehow 'mirror' the insight a Blade must have to his weapons and surroundings in order to actually be able of such outstanding movements.
You seem to disagree - any ideas of a better feat as prerequisite or would you leave it by only 'dodge' and 'expertice'? |
| Zimme |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 08:45:48
A fell wind blows in on this discussion, a cloaked Mask-fanatic clad in pitch black enters in the best vampire-style, cloak up to his nose!
It's just I he he  This blade-bard PrC sounds good, But Blind-fighting/Blind-sight? why?
where is the prereqicite(sorry bad spelling) for a blade-bard to have those feats? |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 14:00:18
Were is Arik Witchson, he made this prestige class, and we havent heard from him... i´l send him a mail.
When i read in the Complete Bard Handbook (2nd. Ed. sourcebook.)under "clas" blade, i see him as an Jugler / Preformer (assassin), not as an typical bard with music instruments. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 17:20:12
Alright, now I got your meaning. Well, that of course would be a differnet approach indeed. One could very well do that. However, as i said earlier, my main focus was on the unique fighting style a Blade had in the 2nd. Ed. sourcebook. To include all the special abilities and balance it out I was forced to cut down his magical abilities, IMO. Further in the creation of this PrC I used the discription in the Complete Bard's Handbook where the Blade is listed as an assasin/spy/weapon master type of character as a guideline. Therefore I decided to leave him focused on fighting and gave him spell progression like the assasin, which I considered reasonable balance-wise. It is a typical roguish character none the less.
But of course, "There are always so many ways to Silverymoon..." as the realmsian saying goes.  |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 16:38:02
(+1 existing level - Spells per day). = a caster level each level
If you give this prestige clas a caster level each level and powers each level, it woud seems wrong and unbalanced. but if you remove some of the powers and give it 7-8 caster level on the 10 level long prestige clas, it woud oppen up for difrent classes to take it. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 14:10:19
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
So here is the updated version that I came up with. Please excuse the minor troubles with the tables shown below. the conversion from a word document to this forum has mixed changed the looks a bit.
Hit Die: d6
REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a Blade a character must fulfil all the following criteria.
Base Attack: +5
Skills: Balance 4 ranks, Concentration 2 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Jump 2 ranks, Perform (Weapons display, Dancing or Juggling) 5 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks.
Feats: Blind-Fight, Dodge, Expertise.
Yes i follow, and yes youre right. But it dempends how you see the prestige class. Is the Blade Bard a prestige class for a fighter, Rouge ore a Bard. And if we say that he is going to start at this prestige class at (10)level, then its werey important to see at the spell progresion.
If you want to open this prestige cals up, fore all classes then i think its a goog idear to put (+1 existing level - Spells per day), exept 2 ore 3 levels.
I know it seems wrong and unbalanced with a +1 existing level every level(Spells per day).
When I reworked this PrC I thought it to be appropiate to be a PrC open to all classes, not for Bards exclusively, yes. However, and please excuse me for asking, but could you repeat what you mean with (+1 existing level - Spells per day). Thanks. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 13:41:10
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
So here is the updated version that I came up with. Please excuse the minor troubles with the tables shown below. the conversion from a word document to this forum has mixed changed the looks a bit.
Hit Die: d6
REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a Blade a character must fulfil all the following criteria.
Base Attack: +5
Skills: Balance 4 ranks, Concentration 2 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Jump 2 ranks, Perform (Weapons display, Dancing or Juggling) 5 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks.
Feats: Blind-Fight, Dodge, Expertise.
Yes i follow, and yes youre right. But it dempends how you see the prestige class. Is the Blade Bard a prestige class for a fighter, Rouge ore a Bard. And if we say that he is going to start at this prestige class at (10)level, then its werey important to see at the spell progresion.
If you want to open this prestige cals up, fore all classes then i think its a goog idear to put (+1 existing level - Spells per day), exept 2 ore 3 levels.
I know it seems wrong and unbalanced with a +1 existing level every level(Spells per day).
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 12:22:34
Well, I was thinking about the focus of the class - it is not necissarily in spells but rather fighting style - and therefore he gains Ambidexterity and Two weapon fighting (like the ranger). On top he has some extraordinary ablitity/feat almost every level. To give him the bonus of +1 to the class level would be unbalancing.
Moreover, you don't have to be a spellcaster in order to become a Blade. For Example a simple fighter or rogue can become Blade as easily as a Bard. But what is a fighter to do if he has no spellcasting class to advance in??? You can follow............ |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 10:55:48
I was just thinking what is youre reason fore giving him a new spell progresion ? I was maby thinking of giving him +1 existing level every level(Spells per day), exept 2 ore 3 levels. hmm this was just a thought. Let me here youre opinion about this Arik Witchson ? what do you think of the work Ergdusch made ?
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 09:53:03
Thanks for the credit, Vic. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 11:48:02
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
First : Whey is this prestige class overpowered ?
You get +1 existing level every level(Spells per day), and powers every level. I cant find another prestige class that gives blindsight, and +1 existing level, and if i compare the 10 level bard and the powers with the 10 level powers gaind with the Blade Bard as prestige class, it seems wrong and unbalanced ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm ).
That was also my thinking as you can see above.
As to the blind-sight feat - I agree, I know of no other class that gets such a feat. Darkvision would have been ok. However that is not really a typical feature for such a class. I chose to come uo with something new: the Trick Throw/Improved Trick Throw thing.
I like what you have done, and agrea with you concerning Darkvision.
The Trick Throw/Improved Trick Throw thing is good. 
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 15:51:49
To give you a little idea what is rolled together into this PrC:
- spell progression of an assassin
- defencive spin is guided by the barbarian's rage
- offensive spin is similar to the monks stun attack
- Weapon proficiency is that of a ranger
- Weapon display ability is similar to Bardic music
- Save and attack progression is that of a thief as is the uncanny dodge ability |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 15:44:55
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
First : Whey is this prestige class overpowered ?
You get +1 existing level every level(Spells per day), and powers every level. I cant find another prestige class that gives blindsight, and +1 existing level, and if i compare the 10 level bard and the powers with the 10 level powers gaind with the Blade Bard as prestige class, it seems wrong and unbalanced ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm ).
That was also my thinking as you can see above.
As to the blind-sight feat - I agree, I know of no other class that gets such a feat. Darkvision would have been ok. However that is not really a typical feature for such a class. I chose to come uo with something new: the Trick Throw/Improved Trick Throw thing. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 15:41:18
So here is the updated version that I came up with. Please excuse the minor troubles with the tables shown below. the conversion from a word document to this forum has mixed changed the looks a bit.
Hit Die: d6
REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a Blade a character must fulfil all the following criteria.
Base Attack: +5
Skills: Balance 4 ranks, Concentration 2 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Jump 2 ranks, Perform (Weapons display, Dancing or Juggling) 5 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks.
Feats: Blind-Fight, Dodge, Expertise.
CLASS SKILLS
The Blade’s class skills (and the key ability for each) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Pick Pockets (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha, exclusive skill). See Chapter 4: Skills in the PHB for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier
CLASS FEATURES
All the following (table 1.1) are class features of the Blade.
TABLE 1.1: THE BLADE
Lvl BA Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Weapon Display, Trick Throw
2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Defensive Spin 1/day, Offensive Spin
3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 -
4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Improved Trick Throw
5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Defensive Spin 2/day
6th +4 +2 +5 +2 Uncanny Dodge (Dex bonus to AC)
7th +5 +2 +5 +2 -
8th +6 +2 +6 +2 Defensive Spin 3/day, Bull’s Eye
9th +6 +3 +6 +2 Uncanny Dodge (can’t be flanked)
10th +7 +3 +7 +3 Deadly Dance
Weapon and Armor proficiency: A Blade’s training focuses on the mastery of bladed weapons. Thus, all Blades are proficient with all simple and martial bladed melee weapons as well as the crossbow (hand or light), dart and shuriken. However, all Blade abilities listed in Table 1.1: The Blade and described hereafter only work with bladed melee or ranged weapons, not with any other weapon (e.g. mace, morningstar or crossbow). Further, Blades are proficient with light armor and medium armor but not with shields.
When wearing light armor or no armor, a Blade can fight with two weapons as if she had the feats Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting. She loses her special bonus when fighting in medium or heavy armor, or when using a double-headed weapon (such as a double sword).
Spells: Beginning at 1st level, a Blade gains the ability to cast a number of arcane spells. To cast a spell, a Blade must have a Charisma score of at least 10 + the spell’s level, so a Blade with a Charisma of 10 or lower cannot cast these spells. Blade bonus spells are based on Charisma, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the Blade’s Charisma modifier. The Blade casts spells from the bard’s spell list and prepares and casts spells just as a bard does.
Upon reaching 6th level, at every even-numbered level after that (8th and 10th), a Blade can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level Blade spell the Blade can cast. A Blade may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for that level.
TABLE 1.2: BLADE SPELLS PER DAY
1st 2nd 3rd 4th
0 - - -
1 - - -
1 0 - -
1 1 - -
1 1 0 -
1 1 1 -
2 1 1 0
2 1 1 1
2 2 1 1
2 2 2 1
TABLE 1.3: BLADE SPELLS KNOWN
1st 2nd 3rd 4th
2* - - -
3 - - -
3 2* - -
4 3 - -
4 3 2* -
4 4 3 -
4 4 3 2*
4 4 4 3
4 4 4 3
4 4 4 4
* Provided the Blade has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level.
Weapons Display: At 1st level the Blade can use this ability once per day per level to produce magical effects on those around her. By whirling a weapon about, a Blade can affect the morale and courage of others. Depending on the ranks she has in the Perform skill (the minimum ranks required to use that ability are indicated in brackets), she can inspire courage (6), fascinate a creature (6) or inspire greatness (15). These supernatural abilities work exactly like the bard’s bardic music abilities (for details see PHB, page 28). However, for this ability to have any effect, the Blade must whirl a non-missile bladed melee weapon about her body. The observer must be close enough to the Blade to see the display (e.g., a darkness spell negates the effect). The display has no effect upon those already engaged in close combat, as they are too busy to pay attention to the show. Also, Weapons Display works only on those of Low (5) or better Intelligence, who can either use weapons or have seen them used. (It is impossible to impress green slime by twirling a dagger in your fingers.) Likewise, a highly intelligent creature that has never seen a weapon used will also be unintimidated by the Blade's display.
The display must occur for a full round without interruption. During this time, any successful attack upon the Blade, or failed saving throw by the Blade, disrupts the display.
Weapons Display may be used only once per encounter; the display lasts for as long as one round per level of the Blade. This ability requires a lot of room; it cannot be done in a narrow corridor. Specifically, the Blade must be able to stand with her arms extended while holding out the weapon and be able to move her arms in all directions without contacting any obstructions.
Trick Throw: Also at 1st level, the Blade gets the Trick Throw ability. This extraordinary ability enables a Blade to perform called shots, granting her a + 1 bonus on ranged attack and damage rolls with bladed ranged weapons against opponents within 30 ft. (as per Point Black Shot feat).
Defensive Spin: At 2nd level the Blade gets the ability to perform a defensive spin. This is a specialized form of parrying in which the Blade whirls her weapon to create a deadly shell about her body. A Blade may not attack during any round in which she is performing a defensive spin. During this manoeuvre the Blade's AC is increased by a +5 (as per the Expertise Feat) plus one-half the Blade's level (rounded down). The bonus to Armor Class is a dodge bonus.
In addition, any creature that makes a melee attack on the Blade must roll a successful Reflex saving throw (DC 10 + one-half the Blade’s level + Dexterity modifier) or suffer damage equal to half the Blade's level (rounded down). The damage is limited to the weapon's maximum damage, including any bonuses of the weapon. If the Blade performs the defensive spin using 2 weapons the damage of only one weapon applies (determined randomly). Any possible strength bonuses do not apply.
A defensive spin may be used only once per combat and it lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s Constitution modifier. If the Blade is injured or fails a saving throw while performing the defensive spin she must make a Perform check (DC 10 + damage dealt) or her concentration was disrupted, ending the manoeuvre.
The Blade can use this ability more times a day at 5th and 8th level, as noted above on Table 1.1: The Blade.
Offensive Spin: At 2nd level the Blade gets the ability to perform an offensive spin. An offensive spin is a much more threatening manoeuvre. The Blade creates a fearsome looking display of skill directed at a specific opponent. The spin must last for one entire round prior to the initial attack, during which the Blade does not attack, nor does she receive any Armor Class adjustment as she would for a defensive spin or Expertise feat as those are both explicitly defensive attack routines. (However, bonuses from Twin Sword Style feat or Dodge feat may still apply.) On the next round, the Blade makes a standard attack at her highest attack bonus, declaring that she is using the offensive spin before making the attack roll (thus, a missed roll ruins the attempt). If she hits, the victim is forced to roll a Will saving throw (DC 10 + one-half the Blade’s level + Charisma modifier) in addition to receiving normal damage. If the saving throw fails, the opponent will try to stay at least ten feet from the Blade (going off to attack other members of the Blade's party or fleeing in terror if the Blade is the only available opponent).
The Blade can use this ability once per round but no more than once per level per day. Offensive spins may be attempted only once on a particular creature. Furthermore, the Blade cannot have been damaged by that creature prior to the offensive spin attack (a creature won't fear someone it has already injured). This is a difficult condition to fulfill, as the creature gets a free round to attack while the Blade does the first round of the offensive spin. Offensive spins function only against creatures of Low (5) or better Intelligence. If the Blade's spin is disrupted (either voluntarily or by a successful attack), the Blade may attack freely but the effects of the offensive spin is ruined, the attempt still counting against the Blade’s daily limit.
Improved Trick Throw: Because Blades throw weapons blindfolded, a Blade of 5th level or above extends the Blind-Fight feat to include hurled weapons and missile weapons to a maximum range of 30 feet. Further he may fire bladed ranged weapons into melee without the usual -4 penalty (as per Precise Shot feat).
Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 6th level, a Blade the extraordinary ability to react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to even be aware of it. At 6th level and above, she retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (She still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.) If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below).
At 9th level, a Blade can no longer be flanked, since she can react to opponents on opposite sides of her as easily as she can react to a single attacker. This defence denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the Blade. The exception to this defence is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the Blade can flank her (and thus sneak attack her).
If the Blade has another class that grants the uncanny dodge ability, add together all class levels of the classes that grant the ability and determine the character’s uncanny dodge ability on that basis.
Bull’s Eye: At 8th level, if the Blade has a Dexterity score of at least 19, she has mastered the art of throwing knifes and daggers to such a degree that she may ignore less than total cover/concealment on ranged attacks with bladed ranged weapons within 30 ft. (as per Improved Precise Shot feat).
Deadly Dance: At 10th level, when the Blade reaches her peak of perfection, she will be able to execute a macabre dance in symbioses with her weapon once per day. The dance mostly be comprises of sombre graceful artistic moves, pirouettes and some acrobatic finesses, and the Blade will make her weapon spin around her and vice versa, making her weapon disappear and reappear from unlikely locations. This dance differs from Blade to Blade. However the effects are roughly the same. With this performance the Blade may produce any of her magical effects as per the Weapons Display ability. Moreover, as a standard action the Blade is able to perform the deadly dance, during which she is able to make impromptu sneak attacks dealing +1d6 points of damage. (If a Blade gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.) Alternatively, a fascinated creature can also be impromptu sneaked. Only basic move actions are allowed during the deadly dance. This ability does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
However, the deadly dance is difficult and exhausting: first it requires a Dexterity based perform check DC 20 to start dancing and second it requires additional checks with a +2 incensement to the DC for each additional round after the first to maintain the dance. The deadly dance requires a weapon the Blade is proficient in to perform and may last for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s Constitution modifier. At the end of the dance, the Blade is fatigued (-2 to Strength, -2 to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for the duration of that encounter.
Special Conversion Notes:
This Prestige Class was worked out with the help and consultation of the 2nd Ed. Accessory Complete Bard’s Handbook as well as the sourcebooks Players Handbook 3.5, Dungeon Master Guide 3.0, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Sword and Fist 3.0. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 12:10:55
First : Whey is this prestige class overpowered ?
You get +1 existing level every level(Spells per day), and powers every level. I cant find another prestige class that gives blindsight, and +1 existing level, and if i compare the 10 level bard and the powers with the 10 level powers gaind with the Blade Bard as prestige class, it seems wrong and unbalanced ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm ).
Weapon Display
Defensive Spin
Improved Two-weapon
Offensive Spin
Throw Blades Deflect Arrows
Blindsight
Lightning Blades
Perfect Spin
The Deadly Dance
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 10:45:33
I edited the Blade prestige class from the draft presented here, as I too considered it to be too powerful compared to other PrC presented in the sourceboks. I will have to do some miner little thinks and than try to post it here.
Critics are of course welcome, but please be so considerate and add some value to your comment in order to actually be able to come up with a discussion that might lead to an improvement of the work.
Thanks, Ergdusch |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 17 Nov 2006 : 09:24:02
quote:
Originally posted by Arik Witchson
When we went from 2nd edition to 3rd edition, i was close to ruin for some characters, and to keep to group goin i made up the Blade Bard inspired by the one from 2nd edt. Bard's handbook, since i noticed none that are even close in resemblence as prestige class
Do anyone know a prestige class that resembles Blade Bard?
And heard some oppinions that its too powerful, which i more think is related to its a "homebrew", what u guys think?
Blade Bard as Prestige class is in the following link
http://www.123hjemmeside.dk/Drakul/3654150
Hi Arik!
I always liked the Blade in 2nd Ed. so seeing that is great. |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 22:29:48
Yes i did se youre link to my home site, and yes i think it´s too powerful!
Good work Arik Witchson, but its too powerful, maby you shoud try to make
Superman´s prestige class. |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 21:37:01
And you might start with the swashbuckler class instead of the bard. |
| Sian |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 19:33:45
Dervish (complete Warrior ... dancing chainsaw with Scimatars preferred) ... maybe with a level of Exemplar (complete Adventurer) |
| Delzounblood |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 16:22:19
I would like to see that too, I enjoyed my own Blade char from 2e.
Ahhhh the days.
Oh and please no one say what about the Blade singer That is so totally different.
Delz
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