| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Brother Ezra |
Posted - 27 Jun 2004 : 23:44:05
Welcome to a new series of scrolls here at Candlekeep. This scroll will be a discussion about "classic" adventures from the 1st edition D&D and AD&D games, modules that many of us here at the Keep played when we were first discovering Dungeons and Dragons.
The purpose behind these scrolls is twofold. First, to share your experiences and reminiscences about playing the adventure. What were your favorite elements? Which ones caused you to fear for your character's life, and which ones made you laugh so hard your sides hurt?
Secondly, and more importantly, please discuss your ideas for how to fit these adventures into the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Where in the world would you place the adventure? How would you modify it to give it a distinctly 'Realms' feeling? What well known Realms organization or villains would you place into the adventure that would fit the theme of the module? How would the plot of the adventure fit into an overarching Realms plotline?
The purpose of this scroll is not to convert any first edition adventure into third edition terms; that has been done elsewhere and does not fit well with the purpose of Candlekeep. Therefore, please keep your ideas pertaining to how to make these adventures part of the Realms. Hopefully, some DM's out there will dust off their copy of the adventure that's been sitting on their shelf or in their basement for the past 15 years and give the old geezer another try. |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lysander |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 18:29:33
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Elton
I have Return to the Keep on the Borderlands, and I can see this used for Deadsnows. As first level adventures go, it can be dangerous for 4th even 6th levs.
I haven't done it yet, but would be interesting to run "Keep..." and "Return to the Keep..." in the same campaign; not back to back, but structure the campaign in a way that they'd have to come back through it - unless the players go way out into left field. |
| Sir Elton |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 14:15:12
I have Return to the Keep on the Borderlands, and I can see this used for Deadsnows. As first level adventures go, it can be dangerous for 4th even 6th levs.
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| Beowulf |
Posted - 25 Jul 2004 : 16:57:28
quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
Secondly, and more importantly, please discuss your ideas for how to fit these adventures into the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Where in the world would you place the adventure? How would you modify it to give it a distinctly 'Realms' feeling? What well known Realms organization or villains would you place into the adventure that would fit the theme of the module? How would the plot of the adventure fit into an overarching Realms plotline?
While I didn't develope the history of the Keep too much, I placed it about two or three days (old map) southeast of Hap ... still within both the forest and the hills.
If I recall correctly (I can no longer find my notes) it was hastily erected by the forces of Lashan during his short reign, but was abandoned soon after his fall due to a lack of interest and frequent troubles with orcii.
In the late 1360's the son of a merchant from Feather Falls (I think Fengle was his last name) decided he wanted to clear the old trail from the Falls to Hap, and reopen the Keep as a rest stop for weary travellers. Naturally, orcii proved to be a continued problem around Fengle's Hold, or the Freehold as he called it.
I more or less repopulated the caves with just the orcii and their allies, along with an old elfin burial section. The Cave of the Unknown has recently become the lost lair of the green wyrm known of old as Green Magic. The horde was disocvered long ago by the orcii of the area, but the horde was protected by a spell Green Magic inherited from Venominhandar called "Horde Wraith". It requires the sacrifice of two to five creatures whose negative essence thence becomes attached to the horde. Likewise the negative essence of anyone slain by the wraiths is added to the horde. So, an absolutely huge number of orcii were slain by the wraiths, and thus the horde is now guarded by a huge number of wraiths.
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| Derulbaskul |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 08:32:17
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert(snip)There was a time before prestige classes? But, but... How ever did they play?  (snip)
Ahhh, you young'ns with your faulty memories.
2E did not have prestige classes; 1E had TWO prestige classes.
The first was the bard. You had to take several levels in fighter, thief and magic-user (now that was a gay name) before you could start taking levels in bard. The bard was even in the PHB.
The second prestige class was unveiled in Unearthed Arcana: the hierophant. To "qualify" you had to be a 15th level druid.
Actually, there may be one or two others but these are the two I recall.
Back on topic, Keep on the Borderlands is well suited, IMO, to the Silver Marches placed in the foothills of either the Rauvin or Nether Mountains.
I would probably replace the cult of chaos with a cult dedicated to Baphomet and have the minotaur in the labyrinth a renegade from the Labyrinth (and then tie it into the Path of Shadows from the Perilous Gateways series from the WotC website). Actually, a baphotaur might be a better bet for a monster.
I would also probably limit the humanoid races to goblins, bugbears and orcs so as to tie in with the nearby tribes.
Another encounter option would be to include a young (not the age category, of course) Morueme blue dragon (plus his hobgoblin retinue) who has recently been "kicked out of home" (the Silver Marches book mentions something along these lines).
Actually, I just remembered that I did this last year although the party didn't finish exploring the site because they wanted to go and make magic items (actually, the dominant PLAYER wanted to make magic items; everyone else was furious but too scared to confront him about his decision as I found out weeks later). |
| Talwyn |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 02:05:43
[/quote]
Whippersnappers! 
How did we walk? Up hill - both ways - in snow up to yer .... and classes! Well, unless you were lucky to be a thief - yes thief, not some silly "but I'm not stealing anything" as yer doin' it rogue - a thief that could become a thief-acrobat or an assassin (and not "prestige" classes neither!), you were what you were. Unless you were a paladin. Then, you didn't know if you were of the Warrior class group with Fighters and Rangers, or if you were a Cavalier. Now, where was I? Walking? Why would I... ah yes. Walking. Up hill. Both ways, in blistering heat. What? Snow you say? Snow you say I said? What, did you roll high when you should have done low? I know what I said - up hill, both ways, in blistering heat, in the snow. And we had a +1 sword if we were lucky!
(channeling Monty Python's Flying 1St Edition Campaign)
Lysander
[/quote]
+1 Sword? Hah! you were lucky sheer bloody luxury!
We had to make do with a blunt spoon on our adventures and pay the DM permission to play in his world. And always the monsters would cut us up into little pieces and jump up and down on the bits singing Halleujah.
You try and tell the young people today about playing in 1st Ed and they won't believe you...
Ahh 3.5 ed: Prestige classes, humans multi-classing, tougher monsters
D&D is certainly a different game today.
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| Lysander |
Posted - 29 Jun 2004 : 17:48:09
quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by labcoatmunkey124
Waaait. What are these scenarios in books, or what? I'm a complete newbie, plus this was probaly before my day. (15)
B2: Keep on the Borderlands is an old module written by someone named Gary Gygax (Anyone ever heard of him? His name sounds familiar). The module is from the days of D&D before FR was a published world. For a look at the cover for the module, turn your gaze here.
It most likely is before your day as the module is quite old. If I recall correctly, there weren't even Prestige Classes back in those days. How gauche.
There was a time before prestige classes? But, but... How ever did they play?
I also understand that characters didn't have feats back then either! How did they walk?! (hurls a +2 bad pun)
Whippersnappers!
How did we walk? Up hill - both ways - in snow up to yer .... and classes! Well, unless you were lucky to be a thief - yes thief, not some silly "but I'm not stealing anything" as yer doin' it rogue - a thief that could become a thief-acrobat or an assassin (and not "prestige" classes neither!), you were what you were. Unless you were a paladin. Then, you didn't know if you were of the Warrior class group with Fighters and Rangers, or if you were a Cavalier. Now, where was I? Walking? Why would I... ah yes. Walking. Up hill. Both ways, in blistering heat. What? Snow you say? Snow you say I said? What, did you roll high when you should have done low? I know what I said - up hill, both ways, in blistering heat, in the snow. And we had a +1 sword if we were lucky!
(channeling Monty Python's Flying 1St Edition Campaign)
Lysander |
| Brother Ezra |
Posted - 29 Jun 2004 : 15:52:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by labcoatmunkey124
Waaait. What are these scenarios in books, or what? I'm a complete newbie, plus this was probaly before my day. (15)
B2: Keep on the Borderlands is an old module written by someone named Gary Gygax (Anyone ever heard of him? His name sounds familiar). The module is from the days of D&D before FR was a published world. For a look at the cover for the module, turn your gaze here.
It most likely is before your day as the module is quite old. If I recall correctly, there weren't even Prestige Classes back in those days. How gauche.
There was a time before prestige classes? But, but... How ever did they play?
I also understand that characters didn't have feats back then either! How did they walk?! (hurls a +2 bad pun) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Jun 2004 : 06:26:58
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by labcoatmunkey124
Waaait. What are these scenarios in books, or what? I'm a complete newbie, plus this was probaly before my day. (15)
B2: Keep on the Borderlands is an old module written by someone named Gary Gygax (Anyone ever heard of him? His name sounds familiar). The module is from the days of D&D before FR was a published world. For a look at the cover for the module, turn your gaze here.
It most likely is before your day as the module is quite old. If I recall correctly, there weren't even Prestige Classes back in those days. How gauche.
There was a time before prestige classes? But, but... How ever did they play? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 29 Jun 2004 : 05:36:46
quote:
Originally posted by labcoatmunkey124
Waaait. What are these scenarios in books, or what? I'm a complete newbie, plus this was probaly before my day. (15)
B2: Keep on the Borderlands is an old module written by someone named Gary Gygax (Anyone ever heard of him? His name sounds familiar). The module is from the days of D&D before FR was a published world. For a look at the cover for the module, turn your gaze here.
It most likely is before your day as the module is quite old. If I recall correctly, there weren't even Prestige Classes back in those days. How gauche. |
| labcoatmunkey124 |
Posted - 29 Jun 2004 : 05:20:21
Waaait. What are these scenarios in books, or what? I'm a complete newbie, plus this was probaly before my day. (15) |
| Lysander |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 15:30:47
quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
Favorite memory from the module: "'Bree-Yark' means 'we surrender' in goblin."
I know our DM changed things when he ran the module (mainly because myself and another player owned both "Keep..." and "Return to the Keep... "; it was a gentleman's agreement that noone read modules that others were going to use in their campaigns - I still haven't read the module fully yet!). One of the changes was having "Bree Yark!" something along the lines of "Surrender, fools!" in Orc (my character spoke Orc by that time, and the DM gave us that translation). Needless to say, the party took up that as a battle cry, even going as far to use that as the party name. Now, I certainly hope he DID change that - it would be rather embarassing for a party as successful as ours actually be called the "We Surrender" company! |
| Mystery_Man |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 15:03:28
Until I ran this module, it never dawned on my players that monsters didn't wait for you to come to them. |
| Brother Ezra |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 14:09:33
Although the first adventure I ever played was B1: In Search of the Unknown, B2 was my maiden voyage as a DM. I got the boxed set for Christmas at the tender age of 13, and ran Keep on the Borderlands with my father and sister as players.
Being a novice, I quickly got confused, and didn't recognize that there were two distinct encounter areas; the keep and the caves. Thus, my PC's at one point were wandering into the hobgoblin armory, and upon entering the next room, found themselves at the bank! Disorienting, to say the least. My sister got bored quickly, but dad was a trooper and hung in as long as he could.
I remember that the owlbear and the ogre were deadly encounters for most groups, and the minotaur always killed at least two or three people.
Favorite memory from the module: "'Bree-Yark' means 'we surrender' in goblin."
Favorite ecology gaffe: All those carnivorous humanoids living in close proximity, with only moderate conflict between the tribes.
Mr. Orc: "We're out of sugar"
Mrs. Orc: "Go next door and ask Mrs. Bugbear for a cup."
I've never tried to run this adventure in the Realms, but the generic and slightly vague description of the keep makes it suitable for placement in any area where civilization gives way to untamed wilderness. The Stonelands and Goblin Marches, on the borders of Cormyr have already been mentioned. I can also see this module set in the Damaran duchy of Soravia, The Great Dale, east of the Sword Coast, or in the Shaar, south of Chessenta. I always envisioned the "cult of evil chaos" to be a cult of Orcus, but could easily be Cyric, Malar, Talos, or any other demon lord. As an added twist, have the creatures loosely organized by the Zhentarim or Red Wizards to create a tie to future adventures. |
| Mystery_Man |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 13:48:42
Well heck, I can't find my notes but I ran it withouth the keep using the town of Thunderstone as a base for the players to make raids into the Hullack Forest. I used the converted (some of it anyway) version on Enworld and modified it to suit my game.
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| Lysander |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 02:22:09
quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
give the old geezer another try.
Who you callin an "old geezer?"
In the Vilhon area, (don't have the maps in front of me) either in the mountain range west of Turmish (Orsraun?), or across the Reach on the Chondath/Chessenta border? I don't know if the latter would work as "smoothly" without making it overly political.
Lysander
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| Brother Ezra |
Posted - 27 Jun 2004 : 23:51:59
Dungeon Module B2: Keep on the Borderlands was included with the boxed D&D basic set, somewhere around 1980 or 1981. Written by Gary Gygax, it detailed a keep on the far fringes of civilization, and a complex of caves, "The Caves of Chaos", wherein a large variety of humanoids and evil-doers resided. It combined a classic dungeon-crawl with some wilderness adventure (the spider's lair, the mad hermit, etc.) and also provided the player characters a base of operations nearby the adventure locale; a place where they could store money, receive healing, rest, recuperate, and be given missions by the keep's castellan.
Share your experiences with Keep on the Borderlands with us. Tell us what you remember about the adventure, what you found enjoyable, or unenjoyable. Also, think about how this adventure could be placed in the Forgotten Realms; a remote outpost nestled in an untamed area teeming with goblinoids, orcs and other miscellaneous baddies could be set in a wide variety of areas in the Realms. Tell us where you would place it, and how you would modify or alter the adventure to give it a distinctly 'Realms' feel. |
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