| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Barbarossa rotbart |
Posted - 08 Aug 2015 : 17:41:06
Hi,
I've got this weird character idea while reading "Revenge of the Iron Dwarf": a female Drow raised among Dwarves. But I need help, because there are several question that need to answered:
- What would be a fitting name for her?
- How did she come to the Dwarves?
- Where did she come from?
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| 27 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Thraskir Skimper |
Posted - 18 Jul 2018 : 21:15:01
Sounds like Humid Black. aka the Under dark version of Snow White. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Dec 2016 : 20:21:46
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I only read about halfway through the thread before becoming mildly annoyed...
ANY argument that a dwarf would not take in a drow infant and raise it (in FR) is null & void, thanks to the existence of Drizzt. If a dwarven KING would take-in a DANGEROUS ADULT MALE DROW, any dwarf would take-in an innocent infant (and even though females are technically 'more dangerous' among drow, to dwarves, females are something special and in need of protection in their culture).
Now, if this were Greyhawk - where drow are treated PROPERLY - then I would say 'no way'. A GH Dwarf would probably eat a drow baby, because they don't even think of them as anything remotely 'human'. Everything is 'B&W' in GH, no 'shades of grey' like we have in FR.
More on-topic:
I actually prefer the non-Eilistraee explanations. Perhaps a group of dwarves came upon a disenfranchised group of Drow (survivors from something? Refugees? Outcasts?), who immediately attck them (being Drow), and amongst the camp-goods they find a baby (the mother is already very dead). They have no way of knowing anything about the child or where it came from, only that it is innocent of any wrong-doing and should be protected.
And now I realize i just responded to an old thread. YECH 
I recommend cooking them with a plum sauce. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Dec 2016 : 07:55:33
On a related note, I had the only (AFAIK) dwarf wizard back in 2e.
You see, he was actually a human midget, who was sold to a traveling (disreputable) circus that had a troupe of dwarven acrobats. They also happened to be a gang of thieves. The child was raised by dwarves (there's my tie-in to the OP), so acted 'dwarfy', spoke a smattering of dwarvish (enough to get by and fool most humans), and also had beautiful, full beard. Then one day he was picking the pocket of an audience-member and got caught - a wizard. When he grabbed the boy's wrist, in panic the boy grabbed onto the item in the man's pocket - a magic wand - and set it off. After the smoke cleared, the mage was greatly intrigued by a 'magic using dwarf' and wanted to study him, and offered to not turn the troupe in the authorities, so long as they sold him for a fair price. He eventually learned it was just a small human, but by then he was already his apprentice... and that was my backstory.
I didn't think it sounded too 'hokey'. I tried to pass myself off as a priest, but the party soon realized my 'prayer book' was actually a spell book by the spells I was casting. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 21 Dec 2016 : 03:30:37
quote:
Originally posted by Barbarossa rotbart
Hi,
I've got this weird character idea while reading "Revenge of the Iron Dwarf": a female Drow raised among Dwarves.
A good advice would be: "if you aren't really sure, don't do this".
It's not that it can't be contrived in a non-stupid way, but it's inherently troublesome. "Bar raised by Foos" very rarely works even as an actual plot. As a background, it's far worse. It was a very tacky way to fail decades ago.
With a few exceptions, but by now even mild Angsty Half Elves overdone enough to roll eyes. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 Dec 2016 : 21:13:22
I only read about halfway through the thread before becoming mildly annoyed...
ANY argument that a dwarf would not take in a drow infant and raise it (in FR) is null & void, thanks to the existence of Drizzt. If a dwarven KING would take-in a DANGEROUS ADULT MALE DROW, any dwarf would take-in an innocent infant (and even though females are technically 'more dangerous' among drow, to dwarves, females are something special and in need of protection in their culture).
Now, if this were Greyhawk - where drow are treated PROPERLY - then I would say 'no way'. A GH Dwarf would probably eat a drow baby, because they don't even think of them as anything remotely 'human'. Everything is 'B&W' in GH, no 'shades of grey' like we have in FR.
More on-topic:
I actually prefer the non-Eilistraee explanations. Perhaps a group of dwarves came upon a disenfranchised group of Drow (survivors from something? Refugees? Outcasts?), who immediately attck them (being Drow), and amongst the camp-goods they find a baby (the mother is already very dead). They have no way of knowing anything about the child or where it came from, only that it is innocent of any wrong-doing and should be protected.
And now I realize i just responded to an old thread. YECH |
| SABERinBLUE |
Posted - 18 Dec 2016 : 20:03:11
Imagine a situation where there was one evil dwarf in a clan who was dealing with, say, a small settlement of renegade drow near to a dwarven city. The renegades aren't good drow, they're likely just cast offs from a few houses that fell, mixed with criminals and dregs with nowhere else to go. During several visits to the drow village, the dwarf was observed by a young drow girl making deals and selling secrets. After a particularly heated exchange one night, the dwarf storms off back to his clan with murder in his eyes. He passes the drow girl on his way out and kicks her aside, muttering something about "all you damned spider-kissers" getting what's coming to them, but no other drow sees or hears this. Knowing that the dwarf's sordid alliance with the village is one that is valued due to the benefits it earns them, the drow girl doubts that she can convince the self-serving adults that he means them harm. She follows him. She sees him throw himself at a wall a few times and make himself rumpled and unkempt before staggering back into the dwarven city, yelling about a drow encampment with stolen dwarven goods (that he himself had given them in trade). They rally round him and send a small battle group. She runs back to warn her village, but no one believes the word of a child, as she feared. She huddles in the safest space she can find to await the dwarves. They sack the village, killing all but her in her hiding place. She leaps out as they are about to find her, holding up a small pendant that she found accidentally dropped when he was bruising himself for his story, a worthless but sentimentally significant item that he would never have parted with and no one would have stolen from him. She holds it up and points at him. He tries to kill her, but says something irrefutably incriminating in the process. The other dwarves hold him back and haul him back to the city where he is tried and executed for collaborating with drow and causing the deaths of those dwarves killed in the raid. It is decided after much deliberation that it is only right to raise her as one of their own, since it was the lies of a dwarf that caused her home to be destroyed, and her actions that led to the apprehension of a dangerous traitor in their midst.
EDIT: Oh hell, I just saw the dates on this thread. Sorry about the necro. |
| Barbarossa rotbart |
Posted - 17 Nov 2015 : 12:55:12
quote:
Originally posted by Noobi-wan
... the dwarven goddess Mya a greater goddess of clan, family and wisdom, ...
I've never heard about a dwarven goddess with that name. |
| moonbeast |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 21:19:27
quote:
Originally posted by BenN
Considering how dwarves feel about offering mercy (or otherwise) to goblinoid offspring (e.g.: "Where's the babies' room?" in recent RAS novels), they probably feel similarly merciless to drow babies.
So any kind-hearted dwarf who took in a drow baby could probably expect to he ostracized from his/her clan......
I second this. Dwarven society is unlikely to show compassion to a member of an "enemy race". Dwarves see themselves as a warrior race. And a warrior race could only be a successful warrior race if they waged war mercilessly and without compassion towards hated enemies. If the Dwarf race was full of merciful and kind-hearted softies, then they would not be a warrior race at all. It might make more sense for an isolated human tribe to adopt the Drow youngling. After all, humans have intermingled and interbred with just about all other humanoid races.
Humans are the most "accepting" and tolerant of the races (although I realize there are many intolerant and xenophobic humans as well). |
| Barbarossa rotbart |
Posted - 07 Nov 2015 : 15:56:55
Thank you, these suggestions are very good. |
| Noobi-wan |
Posted - 22 Oct 2015 : 22:24:48
- What would be a fitting name for her?
- How did she come to the Dwarves?
- Where did she come from?
Let's start from the bottom
-where did she come from?
Perhaps as a baby, she was taken from her home in the underdark. Her mother or father, a follower of Eilistraee could not stand to see their baby raised in the cruel culture of Dark Elves as they were escaped with and took the baby to the surface to see if they could locate an Eilistraee community to raise his/her daughter.
-How did she come to the Dwarves?
The parent (mother or father) made it to the surface. Before finding any followers of Eilistree he/she comes across a dwarf or small group of dwarves hard pressed by some sort of creature (goblinkin, ogre, something) in the foothills. The parent, unable to let the them die due to their nature, attempts to assist the dwarf or dwarves. He/she comes in, saves the dwarf, but is killed in the process or at the end. The dwarf, stunned that a drow saved him, suspicious and grateful, buries the drow, but hears the nearby crying of the baby, and decides to raise it in gratitude rather than leave it to die.
-What would be a fitting name for her?
Is the dwarf that found her devoted to a certain god or goddess? Perhaps he named her Myaner after the dwarven goddess Mya a greater goddess of clan, family and wisdom, or some Dwarvish name for Dark Gift or Dark honor.
Anyway, some thoughts. Good luck, it sounds like it has some promise. |
| Cards77 |
Posted - 05 Sep 2015 : 16:50:49
I'll just reiterate that no self respecting dwarven clan would have ANYTHING to do with ANY drow. I think we can safely leave Drizzt out of this especially due to RAS questionable view of "reality" in the Realms especially as it pertains to inter-race relations.
However, I certainly see it possible that a dwarven clan would take in a drow infant if they had sufficient vetting (mother was a follower of Selune or Eliastree etc). Or had some other sufficient cause to believe the child to not be the spawn of evil.
Also I could totally see this working with a lonely hermit dwarf, not a clan. That would make a great backstory as well.
Additionally, I could see this working among rock gnomes or deep gnomes as they are generally much more compassionate and open minded. More apt to try and vet the child before casting it out etc. |
| Barbarossa rotbart |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 22:42:04
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Barbarossa rotbart
Well, a typical Drizzt clone is a CG male drow ranger wielding two scimitars in combat.
...and with a pet. Straightforward Drizzt-clones, yes, of course. But once a thing becomes became popular, the next stage is a blast wave of "creativity" - that is, randomly mixing it with everything else, whether a combination makes sense or not.
Or: Drizzt is the epicentre... but there's also fallout. 
A drow mage or rogue or cleric is nor Drizzt-clone. No, Drizzt-clones are those characters made by players without much creativity who simply copy a popular character instead of creating a unique character.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholderquote:
My character would be a LG female drow fighter in plate mail and wielding battleaxe and shield in combat.
Given that the elves are rather scrawny sort, classic dwarven getup doesn't make much sense for them.
Very funny ...
... as if there are no plate mail wearing elves.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholderquote:
The overlap is minimal because the only thing they have in common is being drow.
Even without "Chaotic" part, the concept still mostly fits right under Good rebels yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin.
Thus at first glance it's still there.
At the second - attempts to avoid the first pitfall are likely to either render the concept moot, or create an elephant in the room.
And again, you combine it with something that already carries a stigma of its own. This doesn't bode well.
No, there you are completely wrong, because she were raised among dwarves and thus do not know anything about drow society. To be a rebel you have to have lived in the society you rebel against. |
| BenN |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 16:25:51
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Never heard about these?
Well in fact, yes. Certain tropes never get old for a reason, no? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 16:23:18
quote:
Originally posted by Barbarossa rotbart
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
The problem is that the difference between "drow with an unusual background" and "the stereotypical Drizzt-clone" ... well... it's not that the distance is too small, it's that overlap is too great.
Well, a typical Drizzt clone is a CG male drow ranger wielding two scimitars in combat. My character would be a LG female drow fighter in plate mail and wielding battleaxe and shield in combat. The overlap is minimal because the only thing they have in common is being drow.
I've created a drow NPC for my own usage, and he has nothing in common with any published drow characters, other than the race.
Creating him as an NPC gives a lot more flexibility -- you can do things with an NPC that you can't do with a PC. I don't think I'd ever create a drow PC; there's just too much baggage for me to find the concept appealing. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 15:51:46
quote:
Originally posted by BenN
quote:
Lesbian Stripper Ninjas
I am interested, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Never heard about these? Search for the term sometime... or let me darken your worldview a little. 
See the last panel here? And this? Or this....
I never met one (thanks to all relevant entities), but in teh internetz stumbled upon disturbing amount of mentions. Mostly it looks like the SMSpeaking wowcraft and lineage crowd doesn't evaporate with morning mist, and when those players wander into tabletop, they end up doing what they're used to do.
Between the existence of plain drizzt-clones and surprise fanficgames, the idea doesn't even look strange, sadly.
And yes, this disease is known to be carried by the drow.
Hmm. I found that post just now, but it lists 3 expected variants of Drow PC - amusingly enough, exactly the same as mine (above).
quote:
Originally posted by Barbarossa rotbart
Well, a typical Drizzt clone is a CG male drow ranger wielding two scimitars in combat.
...and with a pet. Straightforward Drizzt-clones, yes, of course. But once a thing becomes became popular, the next stage is a blast wave of "creativity" - that is, randomly mixing it with everything else, whether a combination makes sense or not.
Or: Drizzt is the epicentre... but there's also fallout.
quote:
My character would be a LG female drow fighter in plate mail and wielding battleaxe and shield in combat.
Given that the elves are rather scrawny sort, classic dwarven getup doesn't make much sense for them.
quote:
The overlap is minimal because the only thing they have in common is being drow.
Even without "Chaotic" part, the concept still mostly fits right under Good rebels yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin.
Thus at first glance it's still there.
At the second - attempts to avoid the first pitfall are likely to either render the concept moot, or create an elephant in the room.
And again, you combine it with something that already carries a stigma of its own. This doesn't bode well.
|
| Barbarossa rotbart |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 14:04:38
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
The problem is that the difference between "drow with an unusual background" and "the stereotypical Drizzt-clone" ... well... it's not that the distance is too small, it's that overlap is too great.
Well, a typical Drizzt clone is a CG male drow ranger wielding two scimitars in combat. My character would be a LG female drow fighter in plate mail and wielding battleaxe and shield in combat. The overlap is minimal because the only thing they have in common is being drow.
|
| BenN |
Posted - 04 Sep 2015 : 00:36:32
quote:
Lesbian Stripper Ninjas
I am interested, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
|
| TBeholder |
Posted - 03 Sep 2015 : 21:01:39
quote:
Originally posted by Barbarossa rotbart
There is a huge difference between playing a goblin and a drow. Goblins were never intended to be PCs, while rules for making drow PCs existed since AD&D.
Where?
Goblins were in The Complete Book of Humanoids.
quote:
A drow with an unusual background is much more interesting than playing the stereotypical Drizzt-clone (I had one of these in an old AD&D campaign).
The problem is that the difference between "drow with an unusual background" and "the stereotypical Drizzt-clone" ... well... it's not that the distance is too small, it's that overlap is too great.
And the rest of the set is likewise overrun with Evil Edgelords (falling even lower than Drizzt clones), Lesbian Stripper Ninjas (come on) and Mercenary Murderhobos (at this point the "background" is superfluous).
Unfortunately, because yes, this can be done in many interesting ways. I'm not saying you couldn't. I'm not even saying my own eyes don't wander in that direction.
But you have to skip between all the minefields, slippery slopes and mountains of cardboard.
And even then, have an audience that believes in you enough to not run away at the first hint at "drow with an unusual background". Let alone any sort of Wild Child Raised By Pokemons.  |
| Barbarossa rotbart |
Posted - 03 Sep 2015 : 19:43:25
There is a huge difference between playing a goblin and a drow. Goblins were never intended to be PCs, while rules for making drow PCs existed since AD&D. A drow with an unusual background is much more interesting than playing the stereotypical Drizzt-clone (I had one of these in an old AD&D campaign). |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 02 Sep 2015 : 06:32:51
quote:
Originally posted by Barbarossa rotbart
I've got this weird character idea while reading "Revenge of the Iron Dwarf": a female Drow raised among Dwarves. But I need help, because there are several question that need to answered:
- What would be a fitting name for her?
- How did she come to the Dwarves?
- Where did she come from?
Let me be frank... I neither have extensive experience in this specific area, nor know how to put the obvious considerations delicately... I'm just going to translate two answers on a similar question (only with NG goblin grown up among the humans) from fido7.mo.d-d.ad-d back in 2000 - the first poster being known as a good Game Master (both LARP and abletop at that), and with second, it's one of very, very few cases where we agree on anything at all.
quote:
Andrey Lensky
And even more so I won't advise to come with this wonder to an unknown DM: a good master may permanently banish a novice willing to start with a goblin.
Have seen this myself so many times... ;-)
My advice for you: start with playing humans. And only them. Then you won't have "dumb dwarven fighters" and other things for which one gets chased off from decent modules.
quote:
Philigon the Kender
It's generally very widespread and thus now trite phenomenon: one wants to play a goblin who grew up among the humans; an orc who grew up among the elves; a slowpoke who grew up among the mudkips...
Most likely it's connected to the desire to provide one's character some or other freebie exceptionality. A freebie exceptionality is that for acquiring which the character didn't have to spend any effort. Exceptionality by birth or other circumstances beyond the control of the character (for example, an illegitimate son of a Count, or someone captured by foreign slavers in childhood)... As the practice shows, such players during the adventure still aim for maximum freebie-ness, that is getting the thickest cheese for the least effort. For this reason OOC increases, and elements of looneism and munchkinism appear.
[...]
All in all, I'd advise to play normal humans for a start. And let your character strive for originality and exceptionality with his (and yours) effort, not the fact of birth/descent.
See, it's not like that would be too hard to justify in-universe, or not an interesting concept (as a pure mental experiment), or something. It's not that this absolutely cannot be made into a good RP or story. I know that as Special Snowflake Syndrome goes, "Fateful Adoption" is only a notch or two below "Strange Bloodline", but still will freely admit myself that the latter is a tempting plot (in several different ways).
But when the concept starts like an exuberantly bad fanfic, the inevitable impression is that it's only going to roll downhill from here. Worse, this impression is entirely reasonable:
1) It's an observable correlation - such things are indeed typical for badfics, and much more likely to appear in those than anywhere else.
2) There are several underlying reasons why this trope mostly belongs to badfics.
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| Kentinal |
Posted - 01 Sep 2015 : 22:14:17
quote:
Originally posted by Barbarossa rotbart
I disagree, because if dwarves act towards drow in the same way as they do towards goblins, Bruenor would have killed Drizzt years ago.
Well Drizzt clearly a rare Drow. One could argue that Bruenor was a rare Dwarf. For me yes I believe Dwarfs would accept elves without the same hate as for goblins, even if the elf was Drow.
The Eilistraee explanation clearly can be one reason to accept a child. That back story however clearly, IMO, require that the Mother was one of the followers. Clearly the back story requires that the Dwarf clan permitted adoption of an Eleven child.
As to question about name of the child it depends very much on how the child is found or received. If the Mother was a friend of the clan it is possible that the child would be named for the Mother. It might be the same name. The name might be a Drow name the clan knew if the child was a foundling. Indeed the name might be Dwarfen that reflects a name for Elf or Drow that is not insult.
How she comes clearly are found, left and a slight possibility of agreement (This might be treaty agreement where a Dwarf child is left with the Drow, more complicated back story.))
There are many ways a child can be given or found to a clan. The basics ideas have been already offered.
Good luck. |
| Barbarossa rotbart |
Posted - 01 Sep 2015 : 21:47:58
I disagree, because if dwarves act towards drow in the same way as they do towards goblins, Bruenor would have killed Drizzt years ago. |
| BenN |
Posted - 01 Sep 2015 : 04:41:25
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Err Dwarfs have always been at war with goblins, they are racial enemies. Much like elves are against orcs.
Elves and Dwarfs in general have different cultures so do not socialize often however rarely war with each other. Sometimes they even act together against orcs or goblins.
That's true, but presumably dwarves differentiate between surface elves & drow. They may not like the former much, but I'd think that they have a visceral hatred for the latter. Think about what situations dwarves are most likely to encounter the two groups:
Surface elves:
Elves protecting a forest, dancing in a glade etc. Likely dwarven reaction: roll-eyes.
Dark elves:
Drow raiding party attacking dwarf clan mines from the Underdark, slaughtering all they can catch. Dwarven reaction: die, scum! |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 01 Sep 2015 : 03:52:30
quote:
Originally posted by BenN
Considering how dwarves feel about offering mercy (or otherwise) to goblinoid offspring (e.g.: "Where's the babies' room?" in recent RAS novels), they probably feel similarly merciless to drow babies.
So any kind-hearted dwarf who took in a drow baby could probably expect to he ostracized from his/her clan......
Err Dwarfs have always been at war with goblins, they are racial enemies. Much like elves are against orcs.
Elves and Dwarfs in general have different cultures so do not socialize often however rarely war with each other. Sometimes they even act together against orcs or goblins.
As to if a clan would accept that clearly depends on the clan and who took in the foundling, it might even be a matter of why. |
| BenN |
Posted - 01 Sep 2015 : 03:45:14
Considering how dwarves feel about offering mercy (or otherwise) to goblinoid offspring (e.g.: "Where's the babies' room?" in recent RAS novels), they probably feel similarly merciless to drow babies.
So any kind-hearted dwarf who took in a drow baby could probably expect to he ostracized from his/her clan...... |
| Cards77 |
Posted - 01 Sep 2015 : 01:17:09
Yeah I second the Elisatree angle. I don't really see it as realistic for any dwarven clan except for duergar to take in any drow, even an infant.
Have you considered perhaps the drow being raised among Svirfneblin? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Aug 2015 : 18:38:31
Likely the easiest approach would be to pick a dwarven community, first. Have some drow make an outpost near there. Someone wipes out that outpost -- maybe the dwarves, maybe someone else. The only survivor is a pregnant drow, and she's badly wounded enough that she dies shortly after giving birth. A group of dwarves had come along by this point, and found the newborn drow. Not wanting to leave a newborn to the wilds of the Underdark -- even if she was a drow -- the drow take her back to their community and raise her.
She would likely have a name that is either purely dwarven, or maybe a mix of dwarven and elvish/drow.
A similar spin would be that it was a drow caravan that's wiped out, but then it gets a little trickier explaining having a near-term pregnant drow along. At least with an outpost, a female drow could be there long enough to get pregnant. Or she could have been sent there in the earliest days of her pregnancy, and has been there since then.
Yet another alternative would be a drow follower of Eilistraee, fleeing from her Lolth-dominated homeland, and for whatever reason dying after being taken in by dwarves, leaving them to raise her daughter.
The outpost, in fact, could be a small community of Eilistraee worshippers, who had dwelt in peace with their dwarven neighbors. This could give the dwarves more reason to take in the newborn, after some third party wiped out the rest of the group. |
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