| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Diffan |
Posted - 27 May 2015 : 10:41:09
I've always been interested in playing a multiclass Paladin and Wizard, despite the huge disadvantages due to lack of any synergy. But as I ramp up for a possible 3.5 game I once again came across the Mystic Fire Knight paladin-substitution levels and the Sword of the Arcane Order feat, which just screams "make a wizard / paladin already!!" to me. So with some work I've devised a new Prestige Class that blends the two classes together, using the Sword of the Arcane Order as a building block. As far as balance goes, I think it's no more powerful than any of the other 'Theurge' classes that have come out and probably make the Paladin slightly better. As always, constructive criticism is always welcome.
KNIGHT-ERRANT OF MYSTRA
Requirements
Alignment: Lawful good
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, Spellcraft 6 ranks
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Feats: Sword of the Arcane Order (see Champions of Valor supplement)
Special: must possess the ability to smite evil
Spellcasting: Must be able to prepare and cast 1st level arcane and 1st level divine spells.
Deity: You must worship Mystra and are encouraged to be a part of the Mystic Fire Knights order
CLASS FEATURES
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: The knight-errant of Mystra’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int, all skills taken individually), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A knight-errant of Mystra gains no proficiency with any weapons or armor.
Smite Evil (Su): At 1st level a knight-errant of Mystra furthers their ability to smite evil-doers. In addition to gaining another use of the ability, levels of knight-errant stack with levels of Paladin to determine the damage their smite does. They gain an additional use of this feature at 4th and 8th level.
Mystra’s Devotion: The ability of your Sword of the Arcane Order feat is enhanced, allowing you to prepare paladin spells with Wizard spell slots. You are still restricted on what paladin spells you have access to regardless of what level wizard spells you have. From now on any spell you prepare with paladin slots are considered paladin spells for any related effects such as Battle Blessing. Additionally the DC for all your prepared spells (arcane and divine), any bonus spell slots, and the ability that determines your highest level spell known are now Charisma-based.
Spells per Day: Starting at 2nd level when a new knight-errant of Mystra level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.
Armored Mage: As knight-errants of Mystra train with spell and sword, they often face foes in melee combat. Because of this, they train rigorously, thus growing more comfortable wearing armor while casting spells. Starting at 2nd level you ignore arcane spell failure while wearing light and medium armor and using a shield. Arcane spell failure still applies if you don heavy armor.
Bonus Feat (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, a knight-errant of Mystra gains an additional feat. This feat can be a Meta-magic feat or a Divine feat. They still must meet the prerequisites before selecting it.
Channeling Smite (Su): At 5th level, when attempting to smite an enemy a knight-errant can spend a turn undead attempt to augment their attack with an area or touch spell. A spell cast this way a is part of their smiting attempt and not subject to counterspelling nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity. Any area spell cast this way only affects the target of the smite. You must use a number of turn undead attempts equal to 1 + the level of the spell cast.
Mystra’s Fury: Starting at 7th level you gain the Arcane Strike feat (Complete Warrior). In the event that you already have the feat, instead increase the damage die it deals to d6’s. Additionally when a creature is struck with this ability and they have spell resistance they must succeed on a Will saving throw (DC = 10 + ½ the knight-errant of Mystra level + Cha modifier) or have their spell resistance suppressed for 1 minute. Any creature that succeeds on its saving throw is immune to the effects of Mystra’s Fury for 24-hours.
Champion of Mystra (Su): Starting at 10th level a knight-errant of Mystra exhibits a natural blend of steel and spell, giving them burst of might or healing their wounds. When a knight-errant of Mystra performs a full-attack or charge action they may also cast either an arcane or divine spell, with a casting time of 1 standard action or less, as a free action. This can be done either before or after the action is taken. The level of the spell cannot exceed 5th level. Alternatively as an immediate action he can expend a prepared spell to heal himself or an adjacent ally. The number of hit points regained is determined by multiplying the level of the spell by 10 and then adding the knight-errant of Mystra’s Charisma modifier. Thus a knight-errant of Mystra with a Charisma modifier of +4 who expends a 5th level spell would heal a total of 54 hit points. This is a supernatural ability and can be performed a number of times per day equal to 3 + the knight-errant of Mystra’s Cha modifier (minimum of 1).
Base Attack
Level Bonus Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Mystra's Devotion, —
Smite 1/day
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Armored mage +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class /
+1 level of existing divine spellcastig class
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Bonus Feat +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class /
+1 level of existing divine spellcastig class
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Smite 2/day +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class /
+1 level of existing divine spellcastig class
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Channeling Smite +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class /
+1 level of existing divine spellcastig class
6th +6 +5 +2 +5 Bonus Feat +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class /
+1 level of existing divine spellcastig class
7th +7 +5 +2 +5 Mystra's Fury +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class /
+1 level of existing divine spellcastig class
8th +8 +6 +2 +6 Smite Evil 3/day +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class /
+1 level of existing divine spellcastig class
9th +9 +6 +3 +6 Bonus Feat +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class /
+1 level of existing divine spellcastig class
10th +10 +7 +3 +7 Champion of +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class /
Mystra +1 level of existing divine spellcastig class
|
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Diffan |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 23:10:45
Looking at some concepts about power and comparisons,
Human Fighter 2/ Warblade 1/ Wizard 2/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 2
Stats: Str 13, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 15 (17), Wis 10, Cha 8.
Hit Die: 4d10+4, 1d12+1, 2d4+2, 1d8+1; avg. 53 hit points
Base Attack: +7/+2
Base Saves: Fort +7, Ref +0, Will +8
Feats: [7 total; Scribe Scroll, Combat Casting, plus 5 more]
Caster Level: 5th
Spells: 4/4/3/1*
(Total Spells/day without magic enhancements = 12)
*More if you specialize, which I'd recommend.
*Melee +2 Rapier +11/+6 (1d6+2/18-20)
Basically this guy is good casting spells, or in the thick of it with movement and Reflex saves as their Intelligence bonus is added to it. Plus Stances and Maneuvers allows for a better use of their standard actions.
Human Wizard 1/ Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 4
Stats: Str 8, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 14 (16), Wis 14, Cha 13
Hit Die: 5d4, 3d8; avg. 26 hit points
Base Attack: +4
Base Saves: Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +9
Feats: [5 total; Scribe Scroll, Precocious Apprentice, plus 3 more]
Caster Level 5th Arcane; 7th Divine
Spells: Arcane - 4/4/3/2* (more if you specialize)
Spells: Divine - 6/5+1/4+1/2+1/1+1
(Total spells/day without magic enhancements = 35!)
Divine Power would give this guy instantly +8/+3 BAB, good Str, amazing touch attacks, he can heal, dispense AoE effects, by fueling spells with Divine Metamagic.
Human Paladin 4/ Wizard 2/ Knight-Errant of Mystra 2
Stats: Str 14, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 15 (17)
Hit Die: 4d10, 2d4, 2d8; avg. 41 hit points
Base Attack: +7/+2
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +4, Will +10
Feats: [5 total; Scribe Scroll, Sword of the Arcane Order, plus 3 more]
Caster Level: 3rd Arcane, 2nd Divine
Spells: Arcane - 4/3/2
Spells: Divine - 1
(Total Spells/day without magic enhancements = 10)
*Melee +2 Longsword +12/+7 (1d8+2/19-20)
This guys has rough hit points, but the best saves. Lowest amount of spells and the same BaB as the 1st one. He is also tied with the fewest amount of freedom with Feats and Skill Points. Can Smite 2/day at +2 attack, 4 damage). Most likely would specialize in a school of magic for more spells and change out the Familiar with Immediate Magic.
SO each of these Gish-type characters, by 8th level and assuming 25 Point-Buy, have a lot of differences and a few deficiencies, but also positive things too. The Abjurant Champion won't rely on Magic Armor to keep him boosted, as Mage Armor + Shield gives his some significant advantages. The Mystic Theurge, despite having poor Hit Points can really bring the magical arsenal AND be extremely versatile too. The Knight-Errant has a more martial/weapon approach and will rely much more on Magic Items to boost AC, Hit Points, and Spell DCs but it's easier done now that they're all Cha-based.
I hope this illustrates that while the PrC really kind of looks "too good to be true", the proof is that there's a LOT of great and amazing Gish builds out there with current WotC products. I didn't even touch on just how potent a simple Human Druid can be with Greenbound Summoning and Natural Spell with a tricked out Animal Companion.
|
| Diffan |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 18:55:42
quote:
Originally posted by redking
I like the class but it is too powerful and out of line with other, similar PrCs. You've got full BAB and two good saves, and spellcasting progression on both sides at each level AND feats and features. Since this is a
'knight', it has to keep the full BAB. That means that some of the spellcasting progression has to be sacrificed.
On one hand, you are correct. Full BaB, 9/10 spellcasting, and two good saves seems to be possibly ridiculously potent. On top of a few bonus feats and synergy with Charisma as a base stat for casting both.
The thing is, by a certain level Base Attack becomes pretty irrelevant. High level 3.5 turns into Rocket Tag somewhere around 14th-15th level and it's a question of who goes first. When looking at a Mystic Theurge, they can achieve 9th/8th level spells from two sources. With spells Like Divine Power (bab = Character level) and other goodies that can be made 24-hrs, it's a far more potent and versatile.
The way I look at it's power is a couple of different concepts:
• how difficult is it to enter? Paladin is already a pretty terrible class in 3e. It's roughly dropped at 4th for Turn Undead and its immunities, plus smite is really bad. So you have to slog through at least 4 levels of a class that's Tier 4 in power.
• The wizard side is harder to adjust, but you're in contention with Arcane Spell Failire and having to use Intelligence for spells for at least a bit, though possibly months of playing before you get that respite of Charisma to spells.
Entry Prerequisite: for one, it eats up a Feat, something that Paladins are kind of starved for. Second, it requires some investment of Intelligence - something Paladins don't really have much need of or invest too much in. Then there are Skills too, which really spread them thin.
In all, by 6th level (assuming Pal 4/ Wiz 2) you're likely to be worse off mechanically than any singular class OR decent multiclass characters like Clr/Ftr or Wiz/Ftr or some other- better combo. To pull their weight getting into the mid-levels, they need that synchronization of features. They're never going to get 9th level spells and 8th level is a far stretch by 19th-20th level compared to other Gish Combos. A full 20th level character (Pal 4/ Wiz 2/ KEoM 10/ Abj Champ 4) is still a Caster Level 15 and just getting into 8th level spells by 20th where as a full Wizard or Cleric is deep into 9th level.
Lastly, I have to go by the assumption that most games are going to be pretty 'By RAW' and the expectation of Starting ability scores is 25 Point Buy (or elite Array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). In those cases, a Paladin/Wizard combo is even more difficult to pull off because one is just so MAD. |
| redking |
Posted - 19 Jul 2021 : 04:17:16
I like the class but it is too powerful and out of line with other, similar PrCs. You've got full BAB and two good saves, and spellcasting progression on both sides at each level AND feats and features. Since this is a
'knight', it has to keep the full BAB. That means that some of the spellcasting progression has to be sacrificed. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 05 Aug 2016 : 20:18:59
So with the new changes, I drew up a new NPC for the prestige class. Here's Alyssa!
ALYSSA DULSAER; CR 13
Female Chondathan human paladin 6/ wizard 1/ knight-errant of Mystra 6
LG Medium humanoid
Init +0; Senses Listen +1, Spot +1
Aura courage (10 ft., allies +4 against fear)
Languages Chondathan, Common
========================================================================
AC 22, touch 12, flat-footed 22
(+7 armor, +3 shield, +2 deflection)
hp 93 (13 HD)
Immune disease, fear
Fort +16, Ref +8, Will +12
========================================================================
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); base 30 ft.
Melee +1 lance +16/+11/+6 (1d8+3/x3) or
Melee +1 valorous longsword +16/+11/+6 (1d8+3/19-20)
Base Atk +13; Grp +15
Atk Options channeling smite, Divine Might, Power Attack, Ride-by-Attack, smite 4/day (+4
attack, 12 damage), Spirited Charge
Special Actions lay on hands 24 points/day, special mount 1/day (24-hours), turn undead
7/day (+6, 2d6+7; 3rd)
Combat gear wand of cure light wounds (50 charges)
========================================================================
Paladin Spells Prepared (CL 8th):
2nd—bull’s strength
1st—enlarge person, Shelgarn’s persistent blade
Wizard Spells Prepard (CL 6th):
3rd—empowered lesser orb of sound (+13 ranged touch), haste, fireball (DC 17)
2nd—blur, glitterdust (DC 16), see invisibility, wraithstrike
1st—bless weapon, Kaupaer’s skittish nerves, ray of enfeeblement (+13 ranged touch), rhino’s
rush
0—detect magic, light, read magic, resistance
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th):
at-will—detect evil
1/week—greater dispel magic (+12 to dispel)
========================================================================
Abilities Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 18
SQ armored mage, code of conduct, Mystra’s devotion
Feats Battle Blessing, Celestial Mount, Divine Might, Empower Spell, Mounted Combat, Power
Attack, Ride-by-Attack, Scribe Scroll, Spirited Charge, Sword of the Arcane Order
Skills Concentration +8, Diplomacy +9, Handle Animal +10, Heal +6, Knowledge (arcana) +6,
Knowledge (religion) +6, Ride +15, Sense Motive +2, Spellcraft +12
Possessions combat gear plus +1 valorous longsword, +1 lance, +2 breastplate, +1 heavy steel
shield, cloak of Charisma +4, ring of protection +2, silver holy symbol, spellbook, adventuring gear, 20 gp,
CELESTIAL HEAVY WARHORSE SPECIAL MOUNT CR —
LG Magical Beast
Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Listen +6, Spot +5
Languages empathic link
========================================================================
AC 24, touch 10, flat-footed 23
hp 45 (6 HD); DR 5/magic
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5; improved evasion
Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +3
SR 11
========================================================================
Speed 40 ft. (8 squares) in +1 chainmail barding; base 50 ft.
Melee 2 hooves +8 (1d6+4) and bite +2 (1d4+2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +4; Grp +12
Atk Options smite evil 1/day (+6 damage)
========================================================================
Abilities Str 19, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 6, Wis 13, Cha 6
Feats Endurance, Run, Weapon Focus (hoof)
Skills Listen +6, Spot +5
Possessions +1 chainmail barding, military saddle
Character Creation Methods/Supplements
• 28 point buy
• Used average hit points + full hp at 1st level
• Used NPC wealth by level plus approx. +2,000 more gp.
Supplements
• PHB
• Champions of Valor
• Magic of Faerûn
• Complete Champion
• Book of Exalted Deeds
• Complete Warrior
• Unapproachable East |
| Diffan |
Posted - 16 Jun 2016 : 15:01:03
So I made some changes to the Prestige Class that, I believe, brings it more in-line with more recent Prestige Classes, both balance wise and making it more worthwhile to get into.
• Full BAB (was 3/4 BAB). The reasoning was that when you look at prestige classes later released, a full-casting martial/magic blend still have their Full BAB going on, like the Duskblade and Abjurant Champion, not to mention the Eldritch Knight as well.
• Moved up the Smite Evil progression from 1/5/9 to 1/4/8. Basically giving you smite earlier and more attempts because a character utilizing this isn't going to have the feat-slots remaining to take things like Extra Smite.
• Mystra's Devotion now puts ALL spellcasting abilities under Charisma. At first it was just DC and bonus spells, but now it's also Highest spell known too. The Palaidn is already MAD (multiple attribute dependent) with heavy investment in Strength, Constitution, Wisdom, and Charisma. Adding in Intelligence make it even harder to compete.
• Armored Mage now works with Shields. Still cannot wear or use heavy armor.
• Added Bonus feats at 3/6/9 levels. They can select either Divine or Meta-magic. This addition was to fill up those pesky "dead" levels (despite getting spells in both Divine/Arcane levels) and, again, to help the Paladin get some feats for which they're starved. It also gives them a reason to keep Turn Undead around too.
• Channeling Smite was added at 5th level. This is sort of a great mini-class cap feature for some who might want to only go a few levels in the Prestige Class. By allowing this class to channel spells along with their smite, it gives them a little more offensive "oomph". It's also balanced by the fact that you can only combine it with a smite (thus when you run out of smite attempts, you run out of channel attempts) AND area spells only target 1 creature (so only 1 creature is being affected by a channeled Fireball).
Thoughts? |
| Snow |
Posted - 15 Jun 2015 : 03:18:18
I like your Ranger variant, Diffan. Heck, with all those nice Wizard spells available to combo with Ranger spells, a Ranger-based Knight Errant of Mystra would probably make a terrific archer. Or if going TWF Ranger, using a 2-headed quarterstaff in such fashion while still stylin' like a Boss Wizard with traditional weaponry!
As for your familiar ... perusing Maat's list is a good idea for a comprehensive overview of all of 3.5's familiar options.
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9955.msg162128#msg162128
CharOp-wise, an Initiative-boosting familiar would probably be ideal for our Knight Errant. But hey, a hummingbird would look ridiculous buzzing around a Knight Errant. Lol. Otherwise I'd go for one of the familiars that grants a +2 to a given save. Sir Caedmon has excellent WILL & FORT saves. So maybe a nice Weasel for the +2 boost to his somewhat low-ish Reflex save. :-) My games tend to feature much more deadly Reflex save spells than normal getting thrown around (i.e. Murderous Mist, Sinsabur's Baleful Bolt, Cyclonic Blast, Briar Web). So because of these nasty SoS spells, Reflex saves tend to be as important as Will or Fort saves. An elegant Mink and its +3 boost to Diplomacy checks would also be appropriate for Sir Caedmon's obvious prowess in negotiations and statecraft. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 13 Jun 2015 : 23:41:13
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
I like him, Diffan! I actually can use Sir Caedmon in my current F.R. campaign - so consider him nabbed.
cool, enjoy!
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
I'll probably make a few tweaks to him. Pal4/Wiz2/KEoM4 ... And I might convert him to a Rashemi to give him the Dreadful Wrath feat (which should benefit his high CHA). In addition, I think he'd work great if his Wizard component was as Focused Transmuter Specialist (to get all those extra bonus spells as self-buffs).
dreadful wrath is an awesome feat, I must admit. I liked Paladin 5 pretty much for smite 2/day and Charging Smite plus the benefit from Mystic Fire Knight paladin-substitution at that level too. Abjurer gave him a more protective aspect but Transmuter is also an excellent option too. I didn't take a familiar but I haven't really found good substitutions for it. Suggestions?
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
He could probably use the Minor Shapeshift Reserve Feat somewhere down the road to help bolster his HP.
yeah, that along with Bears Endurance and a amulet of health, HP shouldn't be an issue.
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
Overall, I really like this PrC. You may also want to create a variant for a Ranger/Wizard who has the SofAO feat (since I believe both Rangers and Pallies can take the feat).
That's a good idea. It shouldn't be too hard, swap out smite for extra Favored Enemies, remove the Lawful part of the alignment restriction, maybe even make a feat like battle blessing for Rangers. |
| Snow |
Posted - 13 Jun 2015 : 19:40:17
I like him, Diffan! I actually can use Sir Caedmon in my current F.R. campaign - so consider him nabbed.
I'll probably make a few tweaks to him. Pal4/Wiz2/KEoM4 ... And I might convert him to a Rashemi to give him the Dreadful Wrath feat (which should benefit his high CHA). In addition, I think he'd work great if his Wizard component was as Focused Transmuter Specialist (to get all those extra bonus spells as self-buffs).
He could probably use the Minor Shapeshift Reserve Feat somewhere down the road to help bolster his HP.
Overall, I really like this PrC. You may also want to create a variant for a Ranger/Wizard who has the SofAO feat (since I believe both Rangers and Pallies can take the feat). |
| Diffan |
Posted - 10 Jun 2015 : 15:55:02
So I did some character crafting and came up with this NPC. They used all legit sources of 3.5 material (besides this Prestige Class) and used the Wealth By Level table. Assuming you used the array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 you could get this type of character....
Sir Caedmon Taim, Mystic Fire Knight of Mystra
Male Chondathan human paladin 5 (Mystra)/ abjurer 1/ knight-errant of Mystra 4
LG Medium humanoid
Init -1; Senses Listen +2, Spot +2
Aura Courage (10ft. allies gain +4 against fear)
Languages Chondathan, Common, Elven, Draconic
===========================================================================
AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 22
(+9 armor, +3 shield, -1 Dex, +1 deflection)
HP 47 (10 HD)
Immune disease, fear
Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +13
===========================================================================
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares) in +1 mithral fullplate of agilty; base 30-ft.
Melee +12/+7 +2 great sword (2d6+4/19-20) or
Melee +14/+9 +2 great sword (2d6+6/19-20) with bull's strength or
Melee +15/+10 +2 great sword (2d6+8/19-20) with fist of stone
Base Atk +9; Grp +10
Atk Options Improved Bull Rush (+5), Power Attack, smite evil 2/day (+4 attack, +9 damage or +27 when charging)
Special Actions lay on hands 20 hp/day
Skill Trick Healing Hands
Combat gear anklet of translocation 2/day (teleport 10-ft.), eternal wand 2/day (bull's strength)
===========================================================================
Paladin Spells Prepared (CL 9th, choose spells as 8th):
2nd—bear's endurance, whirling blade
1st—bless weapon, enlarge person, fist of stone
Spell-like Abilities (CL 4th):
at-will—detect evil
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 4th; prohibited schools-enchantment and necromancy):
2nd—alter self, glitterdust, protection from arrows, wraithstrike
1st—divine favor, grease, ironguts, magic missile, rhino's rush
0—detect magic, launch bolt, prestidigitation, read magic
===========================================================================
Abilities Str 13, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 18
SQ armored mage, aura of good, code of conduct
Feats Battle Blessing, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Practiced Spellcaster, Scribe Scroll, Sword of the Arcane Order
Skills Concentration +13, Diplomacy +16, Heal +7, Knowledge (arcane) +9, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +8, Knowledge (religion) +9, Knowledge (the planes) +7, Spellcraft +14
Possessions combat gear plus +1 mithral fullplate of agility, +2 great sword, +1 animated heavy steel shield, periapt of Wisdom +2, cloak of Charisma +2, helm of intelligence +2, ring of protection +1, adventuring gear, silver holy symbol (Mystra), 270 gp. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 10 Jun 2015 : 14:28:23
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
I like this PrC, Diffan! I'm away from books at the moment, but I'd like to try some buildcrafting with it later.
I assume you are looking at a typical entry point of Paladin 4 / Wizard 2 ?? I'm curious if the Prestige Paladin PrC would work in lieu of pure Paladin levels. It might be too awkward to shoe-horn it in ...
There are quite a few entry points for this PrC. One is Pal 4/ Wiz 1 and this gives you the most out of your Wizard spellcasting progression. It does, however, limit your BAB, reduce your smite attempts, and you'd lose access to Remove Disease (or Remove Curse if you use the Complete Champion alternate class feature OR Greater Dispel Magic if you use the Mystic Fire Knight substitution level). I actually like Pal 6/ Wiz 1 as an entry, go full 10 level of KEoM then finish up withe either Mystic Theurge (continuing both progressions) or Abjurant Champion.
As for your other question, a Prestige Paladin could most definitely work in this instance. Clr 4/ Ftr 1/ PrC Pal 1/ Wiz 1/ KEoM 10 nets you 13th level Cleric spell casting, 10th level Wizard spell casting, BAB +15, smite, turn attempts, and Paladin spells in your Cleric spell list. A very decent option IMO.
quote:
Originally posted by Snow
One possible concern I have is the MAD-aspect of needing CHA, WIS and INT all factoring into the spellcasting support (i.e. Mystra's Devotion class feature) of the class. Since this PrC emphasizes martial ability, STR and CON will also need to be high (with DEX being an obvious dump stat). That's 5 stats that need to be propped-up.
Yes, MAD is definitely something that would plague a combination like this with a 25 or 28 point buy game. In those instances, Paladins aren't even really that well off no matter what PrC/Multiclass combination is attempted. But even if you were to take the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) you could do the stats like this Str 13, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 15. This gets you prerequisites for Power Attack chain, Combat Expertise Chain (namely Improved Trip), and keeps your Charisma high for synergy. I'd still go Pal 6/ Wiz 1/ KEoM 10 and maintain buffing both Wis and Int with your ability scores and items until you get enough GP to buy (or find) Tomes to increase stats.
Is it hard, yes potentially. It would require some resource allocation from your party members to make you hit better (buff spells from the cleric for example) and you'd need some help in the Item department but I could see it be done in a non-optimized party running normal published adventures. |
| Snow |
Posted - 10 Jun 2015 : 13:57:24
I like this PrC, Diffan! I'm away from books at the moment, but I'd like to try some buildcrafting with it later.
I assume you are looking at a typical entry point of Paladin 4 / Wizard 2 ?? I'm curious if the Prestige Paladin PrC would work in lieu of pure Paladin levels. It might be too awkward to shoe-horn it in ...
One possible concern I have is the MAD-aspect of needing CHA, WIS and INT all factoring into the spellcasting support (i.e. Mystra's Devotion class feature) of the class. Since this PrC emphasizes martial ability, STR and CON will also need to be high (with DEX being an obvious dump stat). That's 5 stats that need to be propped-up.
|
|
|
