| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| diogrigor |
Posted - 13 Mar 2015 : 12:48:01
First things first, I love Eilistraee (CG drow goddess). I donĒ t like the concept of the Sword Dancer PrC as presented in Faiths and Pantheons. I find the focus in the attunement of the character and her sword presented there unfitting. I mean, it kinda resembles the Kensai PrC. IĒve read all the official game material about Eilistraee, including the ADnD 2nd edition Demihuman Deities supplement excerpt and nowhere have I found such a connection. The battle maidens of Lady Silverhair indeed harbor a special affinity for swords, but their overall style is a combination of sword fighting and spellcasting, something that is not reflected properly in the said PrC, IMO. Moreover, from what I understand, the special abilities these specialty priests acquire are depended on their dancing and singing abilities and the special connection to their goddess these confer, rather than on a specially prepared specific sword.
LetĒs cut to the chase.
The entry requirements presume a character who has a versatile devotion to these main aspects: melee combat, dancing and singing and of course divine spellcasting. These requirements can be achieved by an optimum build of Brd2/Clr3/Ftr1. There is an extra flavor about the Charm domain. Moon would seem more fitting, but the actual domain spells it gives access to are more fitting to a Selune follower, IMO.
I figured that such a character needs skill points for advancing several skills (Concentration, Perform, Tumble), so I gave the PrC 4+Int skill points per level. I gave the BAB of a cleric, the saves of a Rogue and almost full CL advancement, since this is meant to be a divine spellcaster after all.
Then there is the special abilities issue. I studied the Dervish Dance from Dervish PrC (CoW 25), the Cloaked Dancer PrC (CoSc 31) and the Bladesinger PrC (CoW 17). So I created the special sword dance described below. The dance confers the circumstantial use of two feats (for which the requirements are anyway fullfiled), albeit the 2nd one #8211;Mobile Spellcasting- significantly weakened. Almost all PrC abilities can be activated during this dance. The two abilities (Dance of Empowerment and Sword Song) usable limited times per day both require Perform checks, since the dance itself is merely ranks #8211; dependent (much like the bardĒs songs) and I figured I should add something that reflects the chaotic randomness of each individual performance. Simply said, every sword dancer can dance, but it takes a really skillful (lucky?) one to truly excel at it. The two sword special qualities (defending and dancing) are also usable only during a dance. These two last reflect the special affinity with swords the sword dancers of Eilistraee have.
Then I added two spell-like abilities reflecting the connection to the Dark Maiden (Dark MaidenĒs Light and Dark MaidenĒs Fury).
The Domain Spontaneity ability reflects the specialization of sword dancers in the Charm domain (this could be possibly changed to general domain spontaneity, if the Charm Domain prerequisite is omitted).
The True Believer feat is put there for flavor and to give the sword dancers the ability to use relics (CoD 88).
So much for presentation, please comment/ advise/ suggest and above all, enjoy!
Sword Dancer
Hit die: d8
REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a sword dancer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Gender: Female
Race: Elf or Half-elf
Patron: Eilistraee
Alignment: Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Spells: Able to cast 2nd level divine spells
Domains: Charm
Skills: Balance 3 ranks, Concentration 8 ranks, Perform (dance) 6 ranks, Perform (singing) 6 ranks, Tumble 3 ranks
Feats: Dodge, Combat Casting, Mobility, Weapon Proficiency with any 1-handed sword
Special: The character must have seen the sun rise at least once and spent at least one continuous month living on the surface (without entering the Underdark), dancing each night under the light of the moon
CLASS SKILLS
Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Tumble (Dex), Survival (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier
CLASS FEATURES
All the following are class features of the sword dancer prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sword dancers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells: At each level except 1st a sword dancer gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class to which she belonged before she added the prestige class. She does not however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning or rebuking undead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on). The level of sword dancer is added to the level of whatever other divine spellcasting class the character has, then spells per day, spells known, and caster level are determined accordingly.
If the character had more than one divine spellcasting class before she became a sword dancer, the player must decide to which class to add each level of sword dancer for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.
Sword Dance (Su): Beginning at 1st level a sword dancer may perform a special dance while fighting. In essence, the sword dancer is considered to have both the Spring Attack feat and the Mobile Spellcasting feat while sword dancing, the latter with a few modifications. First, the sword dancer can only cast a spell of a maximum level that depends on her class level, while in a sword dance. Second, the spell to be cast with Mobile Spellcasting must be a divine spell the sword dancer has access to. Third, the act of casting a spell and moving up to her speed is considered a full #8211; round action.
The sword dancer is subject to attacks of opportunity while dancing, but may tumble normally as part of her move. However, a tumbling character casting a spell while in a sword dance, adds 2 to the DC of the Concentration check required to cast a spell (see Mobile Spellcasting). A sword dancer prevented from completing her move is also prevented from finishing her attack action or spellcasting.
In addition, each round in a sword dance, the character gains a dodge bonus to AC and a bonus on melee attack and damage rolls. These bonuses last while the sword dancer dances and until the end of the last round of the sword dance. The amount of the bonuses depends on the sword dancerĒs class level and ranks in Perform (dance) skill she has and is shown in the table below:
Table 1 Sword dance benefits
Sword dancer Ranks in Perform Dodge bonus Bonus on attack and
class level (dance) required to AC damage rolls
1st 6 1 1
3rd 9 2 1
5th 12 3 2
7th 15 4 2
9th 18 5 3
The sword dancer may only perform a sword dance, while in light or no armor and wielding a 1-handed sword in one hand and nothing in the other. She may only perform this special dance once per day at 1st level and one additional time for every additional three class levels she possesses and only once per encounter. The sword dance lasts for 1 round for every 2 ranks of Perform (dance) the character has. At the end of a sword dance, the character becomes fatigued for the duration of the encounter and suffers a -2 penalty to Concentration checks regarding spellcasting.
Dance of empowerment (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, once per encounter in a round during which the character is in a sword dance, she may roll a special Perform (dance) check, as a swift action. The result of this check may be used instead of the normal DC (if any) to resist and instead of the normal DC to dispel any divine spell she casts during this round of sword dance. Any enemies affected in any way by this ability must be able to see the sword dancer. A spell modified by the Still Spell metamagic feat cannot be affected by this ability. A spell affected by this ability always has a somatic component, even if it doesnĒt normally have one. This ability may be used one + Cha bonus (if any) times per day.
Dark MaidenĒs Light (Sp): A 3rd level sword dancer gains the ability to cast Dancing Lights, as a spell-like ability, usable 3 times/ day, caster level equals class level.
Domain Spontaneity (Su): At 3rd level, a sword dancer gains the ability to spontaneously convert any divine spell she can currently cast into a domain spell of the Charm domain of equivalent or lower level, much like the usual spontaneous casting ability of clerics.
Sword Song (Su): Beginning at 4th level, once per encounter in a round during which the character is in a sword dance she may roll a special Perform (singing) check, as a swift action. The sword dancer may increase the caster level of any divine spell she casts during this round of sword dance, according to the table below:
Table 2 Sword song benefits
Perform (singing) Increase in CL
check result
Less than 10 0
10 -15 1
15 - 25 2
25 and above 3
Any enemies affected in any way by this ability must be able to hear the sword dancer (they are not required to know the language she speaks though). A spell modified by the Silent Spell metamagic feat cannot be affected by this ability. A spell affected by this ability always has a verbal component, even if it doesnĒt normally have one. This ability may be used one + Cha bonus (if any) times per day.
Sword of the Dark Maiden (Su):At 5th level, any 1-handed sword wielded by a sword dancer during a sword dance is treated as if having the defending special quality (DMG 224).
At 8th level, any 1-handed sword wielded by a sword dancer during a sword dance is treated as if having the dancing special quality (DMG 224) (this stacks with the defending special ability mentioned above). A sword dancer may confer this ability to one sword at a time. The bonuses to attack and damage conferred through the sword dance must be allocated either to the dancing sword or another sword the sword dancer wields at the time.
Dark MaidenĒs Fury (Sp): A 6th level sword dancer gains the ability to cast Magic Missile, as a spell-like ability, usable 3 times/ day, caster level equals class level.
True Believer: At 9th level a sword dancer gains the True Believer (CoD 86) feat.
Note: A sword dancer has access to the following spells: EilistraeeĒs Grace (DR315 30), Moon Bolt, Moon Lust (DR315 31).
Table 3 The Sword Dancer
Level Base Fort Ref Will Special Spells per
Attack Save Save Save day/ spells
Bonus known
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Sword dance 1/day -
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Dance of empowerment +1 level
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Dark MaidenĒs Light, +1 level
Domain spontaneity
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Sword Song, Sword dance +1 level
2/day
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Sword of the Dark maiden +1 level
(defending)
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Dark MaidenĒs Fury +1 level
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Sword dance 3/day +1 level
8th +6 +2 +6 +6 Sword of the Dark Maiden +1 level
(dancing)
9th +6 +3 +6 +6 True Believer +1 level
10th +7 +3 +7 +7 Sword dance 4/day +1 level
Edited after consideration of comments... thanks again all of you! |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| diogrigor |
Posted - 23 Apr 2015 : 13:11:50
Took me quite a while to respond but finally I made it!
Thanks all for the feedback! Honestly, suggestions and remarks were quite helpful. I will consider them and edit the post. |
| froglegg |
Posted - 06 Apr 2015 : 03:47:43
Nice work diogrigor, I like it.
John |
| Irennan |
Posted - 05 Apr 2015 : 13:05:39
Idk, the original Sword Dancer has a feature called ''Spellsong'', which allows domain spontaneity (basically their music is able to invoke any kind of domain spell < than a certain level). This version also has a ''Sword Song'' feature and domain spontaneity, so I think that requiring ranks in Perform (Sing) could be mechanically and thematically fitting (in fact, in my homebrew version I tied their magic to their ability to invoke spells through song, and their martial ability to their dance).
Anyway, IMO it isn't a big issue. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 05 Apr 2015 : 12:40:25
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Yep, all which can be easily interrupted when their tumbling through threatened squares and potentially taking AoOs. Further, many other classes get bonuses on top of existing features. I don't see getting two good saves all that breaking in the grand scheme of things.
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What if the AC bonus of the Sword Dance was also applied to Ref saves (or perhaps Will saves, maybe representing something along the lines of the song of Eilistraee guiding the priestesses when they perform their ultimate dance) and/or if it granted Evasion? Also, as I've said before, I feel that the Sword Dance could be used on a rounds/day basis, it would give more flexibility to the skill.
Evasion when you sword dance and the bonus applies to AC and Will saves should cover it nicely. I don't mind one cross-class skill there but song only plays into the class in a minor way but it's a pretty solid investment (12 CC skill points by 9th level) that I don't think it's worth it. Dance is fine and thematic, singing not so much.
Eilistraee is the drow goddess of song and music, though (among the other things), and one of the duties of her priestesses is to nurture it, so I'd say that it it is quite thematic.
Yes but mechanically speaking, it's not an integral part of the class. I don't think it needs to be represented in a game mechanics function. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 05 Apr 2015 : 11:26:25
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Yep, all which can be easily interrupted when their tumbling through threatened squares and potentially taking AoOs. Further, many other classes get bonuses on top of existing features. I don't see getting two good saves all that breaking in the grand scheme of things.
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What if the AC bonus of the Sword Dance was also applied to Ref saves (or perhaps Will saves, maybe representing something along the lines of the song of Eilistraee guiding the priestesses when they perform their ultimate dance) and/or if it granted Evasion? Also, as I've said before, I feel that the Sword Dance could be used on a rounds/day basis, it would give more flexibility to the skill.
Evasion when you sword dance and the bonus applies to AC and Will saves should cover it nicely. I don't mind one cross-class skill there but song only plays into the class in a minor way but it's a pretty solid investment (12 CC skill points by 9th level) that I don't think it's worth it. Dance is fine and thematic, singing not so much.
Eilistraee is the drow goddess of song and music, though (among the other things), and one of the duties of her priestesses is to nurture it, so I'd say that it it is quite thematic. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 05 Apr 2015 : 11:10:14
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Yep, all which can be easily interrupted when their tumbling through threatened squares and potentially taking AoOs. Further, many other classes get bonuses on top of existing features. I don't see getting two good saves all that breaking in the grand scheme of things.
What if the AC bonus of the Sword Dance was also applied to Ref saves (or perhaps Will saves, maybe representing something along the lines of the song of Eilistraee guiding the priestesses when they perform their ultimate dance) and/or if it granted Evasion? Also, as I've said before, I feel that the Sword Dance could be used on a rounds/day basis, it would give more flexibility to the skill.
Evasion when you sword dance and the bonus applies to AC and Will saves should cover it nicely. I don't mind one cross-class skill there but song only plays into the class in a minor way but it's a pretty solid investment (12 CC skill points by 9th level) that I don't think it's worth it. Dance is fine and thematic, singing not so much.
[/quote] |
| Irennan |
Posted - 05 Apr 2015 : 10:37:25
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Yep, all which can be easily interrupted when their tumbling through threatened squares and potentially taking AoOs. Further, many other classes get bonuses on top of existing features. I don't see getting two good saves all that breaking in the grand scheme of things.
What if the AC bonus of the Sword Dance was also applied to Ref saves (or perhaps Will saves, maybe representing something along the lines of the song of Eilistraee guiding the priestesses when they perform their ultimate dance) and/or if it granted Evasion? Also, as I've said before, I feel that the Sword Dance could be used on a rounds/day basis, it would give more flexibility to the skill. M
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| Diffan |
Posted - 05 Apr 2015 : 10:18:58
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
The amount of the bonuses depends on the sword dancerĒs class level and ranks in Perform (dance) skill
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Hm, couple of things:
The class venerates a drow goddess but can't be taken by drow? I'd allow Drow and half-drow in there too.
Why? "Race: Elf or Half-elf" includes all subraces.
True, I'm not sure why I separated them as their own thing? Good catch.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
With the plethora of PrCs available now, having an average BAB and only 1 good save really doesn't cut it. I'd suggest 2 good saves (Reflex and Will) or 1 good save and a Good-BAB.
It got multiple bonuses from Sword Dance (and retains spellcasting), though.
Yep, all which can be easily interrupted when their tumbling through threatened squares and potentially taking AoOs. Further, many other classes get bonuses on top of existing features. I don't see getting two good saves all that breaking in the grand scheme of things. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 05 Apr 2015 : 08:05:59
quote:
Originally posted by diogrigor
There is an extra flavor about the Charm domain.
Uh... not really. It's not tied in any way.
quote:
Then there is the special abilities issue. I studied the Dervish Dance from Dervish PrC (CoW 25), the Cloaked Dancer PrC (CoSc 31) and the Bladesinger PrC (CoW 17).
Fairly close, yes.
quote:
Special: The character must have seen the sun rise at least once and spent at least one continuous month living on the surface (without entering the Underdark), dancing each night under the light of the moon
That one's hard to pull. Though technically not impossible. 
quote:
The amount of the bonuses depends on the sword dancerĒs class level and ranks in Perform (dance) skill
If you want it overcomplicated, won't Pathfinder be a better start? 
But otherwise, good.
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Hm, couple of things:
The class venerates a drow goddess but can't be taken by drow? I'd allow Drow and half-drow in there too.
Why? "Race: Elf or Half-elf" includes all subraces.
quote:
With the plethora of PrCs available now, having an average BAB and only 1 good save really doesn't cut it. I'd suggest 2 good saves (Reflex and Will) or 1 good save and a Good-BAB.
It got multiple bonuses from Sword Dance (and retains spellcasting), though. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 05 Apr 2015 : 06:37:09
Hm, couple of things:
The class venerates a drow goddess but can't be taken by drow? I'd allow Drow and half-drow in there too.
Due to the skill and feat requirements, it puts (in my opinion) too much strain on classes like fighter or swashbuckler to do much else with skills (or feats) other than plunking them into cross-class skills OR pushing up the entry level of this PrC (which I assumed was abouts 6th level) to 9th level or higher. I'd suggest dropping Skill Focus feat and maybe the perform (sing) requirements.
With the plethora of PrCs available now, having an average BAB and only 1 good save really doesn't cut it. I'd suggest 2 good saves (Reflex and Will) or 1 good save and a Good-BAB.
Besides Those Few points, I Like It and think it would work exceptionally well with my homebrew Avenger class. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 13 Mar 2015 : 14:55:58
quote:
First things first, I love Eilistraee
Heh, you're far from alone.
quote:
I donĒ t like the concept of the Sword Dancer PrC as presented in Faiths and Pantheons. I find the focus in the attunement of the character and her sword presented there unfitting.
I don't like the official rules for the Sword Dancers either, I agree that the focus on the sword-binding doesn't really have much to do with Eilistraee's style.
I don't use D&D or any official systems, but homebrew rules -still based on d20- that look very different from those (perhaps a bit of 4e, since I use manouver-like skills and ''defenses'' that have to be hit like DCs). However I like your take on the theme, what I would change is allowing ''Sword Dance'' to be use a definite number of rounds/day (instead of X times/day), based on the dance skill and PrC level and removing the ''fatigued'' condition at the end of it -or making it trigger after X rounds, depeding on dance check maybe?- (IMO it isn't necessary, especially in a 3.5e environment, where things get crazy at higher levels). This would give the skill quite a bit of flexibility in its use.
I have used a similar concept for my version of the class. Namely, the combination of a warrior-dancer/artist and spellcasting capacity with the Spellsong. I've put more emphasis on the martial side of the Sword-Dancer, though, their Spellsong is quite limited if compared to the Spellsong of a standard priestess of Eilistraee.
Basically, their sword-fighting revolves around dance/acrobatics-oriented skills, and is based on dodging and evading while dancing in and out of combat, using their grace and mobility to dictate the flow of the fight. Depending on the situation, they can choose to perform different kinds of dance, focusing on evading, feinting and manipulating the enemy's position (dance of freedom); or on acrobatically zooming around the battlefield to assault multiple foes (dance of frenzy); or on concentrating their efforts in dueling and engaging a specific target (dance of fury). Ofc, Sword Dancers can only use light armor and their survival depends on mobility and on choosing the right moment to strike.
The Sword Dancers' spells (mostly, not all) come in the form of the Spellsong, and are based on their personal song and/or personal connection with Eilistraee (innate abilities -like Moonfire- don't require song/music, for example). They are mainly utility, mobility and a few sword-enhancing spells (only usable in their dance. I've shifted a combo of dancing/protecting-sword quality here), revolving around the themes of emotion (mainly charm or bardic inspiration-like buffs), sound, moonlight (Eilistraee's signature moonfire is among those), some healing (and stuff like movement-impairment protection) and illusion (not so sure about this, but I've added it because I found it fitting as a light/sound based spell and for the dancer/actress aspect).
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