| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| SiCK_Boy |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 07:44:14
First thing first: if you are one of my players (Guy, Johanne, Steph or P-L), STOP READING.
Also, the rest of this post contains spoilers about the City of the Spider Queen adventure. Stop reading if you intend to play into this adventure in the future.
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That being said, here I go. I'm currently DMing City of the Spider Queen, and I'm looking for suggestions about what to do right now. There are 4 PCs, all level 10 bordering on 11 (except for the barbarian who's now 11), and we'll do our 7th game session next week. So far, the PCs have been to Szith Morcane 3 times.
The first time, they came through the Dordrien Crypts, following the cavern path and entering the S1 area via the hole in the ceiling. They fought hard, killed all the guards in the cavern except for a spellguard who fled, and they also got rid of half the sentries in the web team. They decided to leave after the cleric got killed by a Lightning Bolt, using Boots of Teleportation to get back to Dagger Falls. The only survivor was the spellguard, who had seen clearly 2 of the PCs (the Barbarian and the Cleric), and who suspected there were more (the rogue has a ring of invisibility, almost always active, and the wizard has a wand of Improved Invisibility that he used before entering the cavern).
The second time, they teleported directly into the S1 cavern. There, they killed the infamous spellguard (the cleric that spellguard killed was replaced by another character, again a cleric, rather than being resurrected), as well as all the replacement guards and the rest of the web team. They also killed the fiendish spider, leaving no survivors before teleporting outside. They chose to go to Suzail because they didn't want to have to report to Randal Morn that night (more about that later).
At this point, I decided that Dorina would change the alarm system for the outpost. About half the drows from the barrack area are dead, and there's no point in sending the rest into S1: they'll get killed too. So Dorina simply animated a bunch of skeletons and left them in S1, along with a vampire guard in gaseous form. The vampire is under very strict instructions to get down to House Morcane as soon as someone enters the cave. Also, the hole in the ceiling was blocked with a wall of stone: now, the drows have to use Stone Shape to get in and out this way.
The third PC visit to Szith Morcane started like the second: they teleported directly into the entrance cave (S1). They quickly wiped out the skeletons, but never saw the vampire getting away and raising the alarm. Before we ended the 6th session, I asked them what their plan was. They'll use a rope to get down toward the Bazaar area (straight below them). The thief will go first, invisible but wielding an Everburning Torch so that they can see what they do. He'll stay about halfway along the wall with the help of slippers of spider climb, waiting for the rest of the group to enter the S12 area. The dwarf barbarian will go first, and only when he's safely entered the bazaar will the mage follow, and finally the cleric. The cleric has winged boots, but she'll use the rope anyway to save her boots' power.
So, my first questions come here: what should I do?
I have a bit of a problem with the group's attitude in that they use very straightforward strategies: teleport in, kill all the drows, teleport out when we don't have any more spells. I don't mind the teleportation, I know it'll come to an end soon. But I'd like them to be more sneaky, more cautious. I'm afraid they'll keep blasting all I send to them, even more so since they were really afraid of the spider and finally got rid of it in 3 rounds of assault (fireball SR, lightning bolt damage, cone of cold damage, a full attack in haste by the barbarian, a searing ray SR and nothing from the rogue who fumbled). Also, they never even try to make any drow prisonner: since the beginning, they've made no effort to understand why the drows were attacking the surrounding area. They really intend to go into every cavern of Szith Morcane one by one and kill everyone they find.
As for the villains, they are currently facing an unknown force, and the top priority for Dorina is to get some intel about them. She doesn't know for sure about the teleportation (but she's beginning to suspect it, and will equip some people with wands that can prevent it [sorry, I don't remember the name of the spell... not planar binding, but something like that] as soon as she knows for sure), and she can't start scrying the characters yet with any reasonable amount of success. She's also beginning to be short on soldiers (I decided that if there ever was a 1 week break from the PCs invasion, there would be some backup sent by her mom), and even if she doesn't care about their lives, she don't want to waste them uselessly.
My ideas, options and questions for the next session are this:
1 - I let the PCs get in the bazaar, kill all the monsters there (a though fight, but they'll win), and hope they start opening doors. I just don't want them to get to the commoner level right now, not with their current attitude. But, if they encounter the pudding, I'm afraid of the damage it might cause to the barbarian. That character was built around 2 magic items: a Mithral Full Plate of Speed, and a Flaming Cold Two-Handed Sword. The player clearly stated that one of his main gold was to make his sword epic, in game terms and role-playing wise too. Taking it away from him would be a really though blow, maybe enough to make him want to quit or seriously rethink his involvement in the game. Right now, I'm favoring this option: when they encounter the pudding, I make it act before the barbarian and touch the armor, just enough to make him understand the monster is acidic and destroys metal, but not enough to totally ruin it. That should be his signal to get out of there. Any more ideas on how to make this encounter challenging without pissing off the player too much?
2 - About the remaining barrack force (9 drow sentries, 1 quth-maren and 1 drow officer): they are all in the S4 and S5 area, alerted. They don't want to go face the PCs because they are afraid, and yet they are under order to get some intel. I was thinking of having them watch the PCs (with their superior darkvision, they should escape notice), and maybe follow after the last PC entered the bazaar, maybe even surprising them when they'll come out the different rooms on that level. Or, I could have them split in 2 gangs, one going directly to S12 while the other goes around via the commoner level, trying to catch the PCs in sandwich in the southern corridor on the bazaar level. But that strategy might make the gaze attack of the Quth-Maren pretty useless if he doesn't want to catch the drows within its range, so I'm not sure. I also though having them attack the PCs while they're going down the wall, but that would lead the PCs toward the barrack, a bunch of treasure and a weak opposition, as well as riding Dorina of her last "first line" of defense and the whole complex wouldn't have any more fighting ressources except for common warriors. Any ideas what the barrack force's strategy should be?
3 - That idea was pretty vicious. I wanted to have Zedar make an alliance with Solom Nedrazak (the archmage), in order to get rid of the troublesome PCs. Solom doesn't want to fight the PCs directly (he's beginning to see some potential allies in them to get rid of the Kiaransalee worshipers), but he doesn't want to directly oppose Zedar either. The plan would be this (made quite complicated by the Forbiddance in House Morcane): Solom learns of the PCs arrival. He sends a message to Zedar (either via Sending or even just a murmured message [I don't remember the spell name either, the one that sends a message to a location, not a person], who hurry to the House Morcane entrance with Ripper. Solom gets invisible and fly toward House Morcane (he would have teleported, but he can't because of the Forbiddance). He teleports them both to the top cavern, where they arrive just in the back of the last PC waiting to get down along the wall. For the teleport to work, I ruled that the three of them jumped in the chasm and Solom casts teleport while they are falling. All of that takes somewhere between 5 to 10 rounds to happen. Once they are in the S1 area, Solom remains invisible. His sole duty is to teleport them all back if there's any problem. My plan was to have Zedar and Ripper make 1 attack, seriously maiming the last PC. I was also thinking about making Zedar invisible too, so he'd get his sneak attack bonus on a hit. Anyway, all in all, the result should be a PC death, or at least scared to death, before the rest of the group can react. The only other option would probably be for the PC to jump in the chasm, creating a panic amongst the others. All of that plan would be great, except for this: the last PC at the top will probably be the cleric, and she already died once. I don't want to seem to be too much on her case. But, with a death here, it would open up many avenues since the drows would keep the body and maybe they could start to negociate something with the PCs. All in all, I'm not convinced I'll do that for a number of reasons: it's kinda cheap for the surprised PC, it prevents them from going further in Szith Morcane (they never went further than the S1 cavern yet), and there's the risk of them killing off Zedar through a way I'm not thinking about. Also, the Zedar-Solom alliance is not something I'm 100% convinced about. And all this line of thinking made me realize how hard it had to be for Ripper to get out of that damn complex to go outside! But, any though on that path of action is welcomed.
4 - Last thing was a small take-off on the previous idea. I just have Solom teleport (invisible) in the S1 cavern, carefully studying the PCs. The PCs never check for invisible opponents if they're not under attack, so there's no chance they'll detect him. It would make it plausible to have Dorina start scrying, and also would make it possible to have Solom contact the PCs later to try to make a deal with them in exchange for his dispelling of the forbiddance spell surrounding House Morcane (I know the PCs will be seriously pissed off the first time they try to teleport there and just bounce back).
Also, on the political front, here's the situation. Again, I'm looking for comments/suggestions about it.
Randal Morn: The PCs are very mercenary-minded. All the PCs are neutral, and they're really there only for the money. They've already renegociated the deal with Randal Morn after the second PC death (the cleric... the first PC death was the rogue who fell for the Slay Living trap in the crypts), arguing that the quest was much harder than originaly discussed. Randal is having doubts about the PCs: he thinks they're more interested in looting the crypts than really helping the population of Daggerdale. After the first PC visit to Szith Morcane, the vendetta from the drow caused about 50 deaths. And, in the previous night, another 20 people were murdered. Since the PCs went to Suzail instead of Dagger Falls, Randal Morn doesn't know yet what happened to them (he'll try contacting them in 24 hours if he doesn't have any news). But he's now really worried, and has taken some actions. All the people living south of the Tesh River (the river upon which Dagger Falls is built) are to be evacuated and a refugee camp is currently built outside of Dagger Falls. So far, a few hundred chose to leave their homes, but most people are reluctant to do so (at least 'till the next raid). No more patrols will go south of the river as long as the crisis lasts. With the coming of winter (it's currently Uktar 5), the camp won't last long. By the end of the month, people will die of cold in it, so that leaves a few weeks to the PCs to solve the problem. If the PCs keep their current attitude, he'll start sending word for other helpful souls, probably getting the Harpers to get involved.
Suzail: the PCs have been there a few times, mostly teleporting and selling loot, then leaving. After the last visit, I decided they had attracted the attention of the autorities. They sold a bunch of masterwork weapons and mithral armors of drow fabrication. The autorities will want to know where all this stock come from, maybe leading the PCs to a confrontation with the War Mages and Purple Dragons of Cormyr (I hope not, but I want them to realize that they can't just sell for thousands of gp of material without getting noticed somehow). Also, War Mages will want to discuss the teleportation matter with the group's mage. With all the trouble Cormyr went through (we are still in 1372), they are a bit paranoid about non-official mages using strong magic in the capital city. I'll maybe force the PCs to pay for a chart, or somehow have them show a bit more respect toward the Cormyr Regent Queen, but I don't want to push too far in that direction, since it's essentially distraction from the main adventure (although it helps to get the "Realms are alive" feel).
Finally, I'm beginning to think of what'll happen if the PCs just choose to quit the mission. They showed signs of it being a possibility, being arrogant and distrusting of Randal Morn. If I tickle them wrong, I'm pretty sure they'll quit. If they do, I'll give them a few week's break (in game), interrupted shortly after by a visit from some Harper agent who needs the info about Szith Morcane and what they've found. I might play to the effect that they refused in the past to join the Harpers (the PCs were created at level 10, so there's lot of room for past history for them), and that could make some interesting roleplay. But, in the end, I'll have the drows get back to them (after all, Kiaransalee is the drow goddess of revenge, and they still want revenge for all the deaths caused by the PCs), maybe stealing a precious item (like the barbarian's sword), or just harassing them with promises of more to come. That should keep them involved.
I'm done. I'd like comments/suggestions on those ideas, ideally from other people who've run the adventure before. Feel free to ask any more questions about the PCs or the adventure. We play in 4 days from now. |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| SiCK_Boy |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 18:09:36
Wererats and the Red Plumes should make a good combination during the night. Thanks for the hint. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 10:04:18
Well, first thing to my mind IS the towns militia - the Red Plumes. They are certainly a pesky, harsh and unforgiving lot.
Other than that I give you some ideas I recall from the Mysteries of the Moonsea Sourcebook. I am not sure if this is all correct though. Don't have my books at hand. Anyhow:
Posibilities might be that certain groups provide the characters with a save (or not so save) hide-out. These could be either
- the local thief's guild (which is having trouble with a gang of wererat).
- the wererats, posing as the local thief's guild, looking for new "free" recruits.
- the red wizards. IIRC they do have an enclave in Hillsfar. However, they might just be interested to sell the PC's to the local slaves traders.
- the pirates, for profit or with similar intentions as the red wizards.
Of course, any of those groups might turn them in to the Red Plumes in the blink of a second!!! 
On a side note: I am rolling with laughter hearing of the mishape of the teleport. My group had a similar experience once. thereafter the dwarf, trusting little in magics before already, was reluctant to ever take such a "ride" again. "Worth than boats and horses combined!" that were his words!  |
| SiCK_Boy |
Posted - 10 Aug 2007 : 04:25:42
In tonight's session, the mage's teleport boots misfired. When trying to get from Randal Morn's fortress in Dagger Falls to the front of an inn they'd been to a couple times in Suzail, he got a mishap roll. After taking some damage, they landed up in front of a shaggy building in Hillsfar. The dwarf and the elf got some wild eyed looks from the innkeeper, even more so when they boldly pretended they'd just entered town via the main entrance a few moments ago (at 1 in the morning). They managed to get away before the guards came upon them, letting the poor rogue walk all the way while the other three flew off.
Now, they are stuck in the area outside town for at least 24 hours before they get teleport back.
I'd like to get suggestions of possible encounters in this region. I'll send a patrol of town guards for sure, but if there's any special group that could be introduced to them, anything to get a feel for this area, I'd like to hear about it. All they know for now is that Hillsfar is a harsh and racist town, and that it's real huge, and a port city on the Moonsea. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 08:59:19
quote:
Originally posted by SiCK_Boy
About Dimensional Anchor, I don't have my PH with me. Can it really by made permanent, or affect a whole area? I though it was more of a targeted spell.
The 4th lvl spell Dimentional Anchor affects only on target and is a ray! However, the 8th lvl spell I mentioned above Dimenional Lock affects an entire area, 20 ft emanation radius. As it lasts for 1 day/lvl the caster would not really spent thoughts and eps to make it permanant. After all, he'd have to be around 15/16th lvl to cast it, so it would already last 15/16 days which shoud suffice, I think.
Hope that clears it that up a bit.
quote:
Originally posted by SiCK_Boy
By the way, thanks for the references to Volo's Guide to Cormyr, I'll check it out. But I don't own the Cormyr 2nd edition supplement, just too bad. However, I'll take your word about the guilds and weapon selling matter.
You are, of course, welcome!
Ergdusch |
| SiCK_Boy |
Posted - 05 Aug 2007 : 06:26:11
We played two sessions last week. It had its high and low points. The group finaly captured a drow (a single spellguard), and they forced him to accept to be teleported back in town for interrogation. As a precaution, they left the barbarian and the rogue in the bazaar cave, and the cleric and mage were ready to teleport to Dagger Falls, having told the drow if he wasn't "consenting", the dwarf would deal with him. Boom, they go! And they arrived alone, no trace of the spellguard! He took his chance with the remaining ones, hoping to run away by surprising the PCs. The thing is, when they chose to come back, they had exausted the boots of teleport for a whole day. All this lead to a long 24 hours spent in the cave, with the barbarian fleeing in haste (his armor is the standard one from the DMG, with 10 rounds of haste per day) from all the spring attacks of the drow to get out via the hole at the top, only to find that it was blocked by a wall of stone. In the end, they managed to survive by killing half the remaining barrack guards (having hidden themselves in a corner, protected by a Wall of Force, when things got desperate), all of the raiding team except Velina and her Quth-Maren, and also defeating a vampire guard sent as a last threat. I also introduced Solom (the archmage) briefly.
I'm getting short on strategies from the drow point of view. They totally sealed the top cavern with a wall of stone, and I think the next ambush will be made by Zedar and the Hunting Party, from the Bazaar area, with a bit of extra backup (maybe 1 or 2 vampires, as well as the rest of the barrack drows). I want to keep upping the ante as long as they try to just teleport in, whack everything, then get out. I'll also have every cleric learn at least 1 dimensional anchor.
About Dimensional Anchor, I don't have my PH with me. Can it really by made permanent, or affect a whole area? I though it was more of a targeted spell.
And concerning the protection of vital character equipment, I know that equipment doesn't make the characters, but they are a vital part of character power. When they created their characters, they had 49 000 gp each (the mage chose to use part of his 10th level to make some items) to spend. Cutting off a major part of that investment is a serious matter. I'm more and more in favor of being merciless in the specific case of the sword and/or armor of the barbarian, even more so after discussing the subject lightly with the player, who didn't seem to mind so much, having now changed his goal to get a helmet of true seeing. But as a general issue, I see it as something as bad as level loss to destroy magic equipment of that value. Not something that can't be done, but something that must be well thought out, not only because of the risk that the player will get angry (my players aren't childlike enough to quit over such a matter, I hope), but because it seriously reduce party effectiveness afterward, changing all of the game and encounters balance.
And about the "props", I made many handouts and tried to use multiple tools (even the map of Daggerdale from the Return of Randal Morn adventure), but none of the paper handouts has been used yet. I even made "sacred text" for the clerics to cast Shield of Faith, using excerpts from Faith and Pantheon (or is it Power and Faith? anyway, the 3rd edition one...), and printing a version in Espruar script as well as a traduction. I hope they'll get to it soon.
The next step in the plot will probably depend on their reaction to Solom. He'll offer them a deal to bypass the drow defenses if they agree to only attack the monsters and drow leaders in House Morcane and leave the rest of the colony alone. If the characters reject this offer, the day won't be far away when Solom will have to choose and probably attack the group, most surely killing one, if not two, characters (after all, he's 4 levels higher than the PCs, with access to lots of spells).
Also, things are getting worse with Randal Morn, who let slip that he was seriously thinking of resigning the contract. He doesn't know that drow raids are now at a stop for at least a tenday, but in the immediate, he's still angry about the characters. Even more so since, when he showed them the refugee camp his guards are building, with many poor families being stuck there, the rogue said that wasn't his problem and that his job was to stop the drow menace, not take care of those people. I'm trying to figure out some way to counterbalance Randal's attitude so that the PCs keep at it a little longer. Maybe I'll use a close relation of Randal (I saw a post about his family on some board, could use his wife as a go between, trying to show the characters that Randal means well but is living lots of frustration through all this), or some guard having a relation to the character's past (like "My cousin served with you guys 3 years ago against that orc tribe! He said you were the best! We soldiers still believe you can help us! Don't let us down!"). And if they just quit, so be it... we'll take a break from the drow, I'll have Szith Morcane regain some might, and then they'll strike when not expected...
By the way, thanks for the references to Volo's Guide to Cormyr, I'll check it out. But I don't own the Cormyr 2nd edition supplement, just too bad. However, I'll take your word about the guilds and weapon selling matter. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 04 Aug 2007 : 16:42:15
Thanks, Ergdusch!  I forgot to look up the references for the charter and the license. In addition to this, the group's mage needs to register with the War Wizards (like you noted, SiCK_Boy).
I would like to add some things to my previous post:
You were concerned about their strategy, but I think it's pretty standard for the PCs to teleport in, kill everything that moves, loot the bodies and finally teleport out (to share and identify the loot).
If they keep on doing it mechanically for the sake of treasure, show them the consequences of their actions (like I suggested). Show them the bodies of women and children and maybe even their loved ones (if anyone is from Daggerdale). If they quit, show them the consequences of it, too.
Your own ideas (for the bad guys) sounded pretty good to me at a glance.
Whatever you do, be fair. If they're low on hit points (and out of healing spells) let them find some extra healing potions on a Drow corpse or don't roll for random encounters (unless they seem overconfident). Fudge some rolls if TPK is otherwise certain. If they run, give them a fair chance at escaping.
And I did not mean that you should take away equipment from your PCs - just don't hesitate to do so (=protect their equipment at all costs) if it comes to it and doing so doesn't have any long-lasting catastrophic results. If the black pudding (or a rust monster) would destroy the sword, make sure that in one or two sessions the barbarian finds another magical sword. If someone quits playing over losing a sword - let him. Maybe that sword *did* define his character and the character was just an extension of the sword (and not the other way around). If a player could blackmail you by threatening to quit over this matter, what's next?
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 04 Aug 2007 : 15:19:38
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I agree that the War Wizards will sooner or later begin to monitor the affairs of the PCs. IIRC you need a license to sell arms and armor (especially magical gear) in Cormyr, and guilds (Ed Greenwood has posted a lot of info about Cormyrean Guilds here at Candlekeep) might also be interested in learning more about the PCs (they are stepping on their markets). I also think it is a good idea to use the Red Wizards to buy the stuff from the PCs (and lure them into their 'fold' and intrigues). If I were you, I'd run a whole session in Suzail when they teleport there next time - they should definitely be confronted by the Agents of the Crown (Purple Dragons and War Wizards) who'd demand them to register as a legal, chartered adventuring group and (after a thorough questioning to determine that they don't have any fishy motives) buy a Royal License to sell magical items in Cormyr (all in all, some thousands of GPs, IIRC).
2nd. Ed. Sourcebook Cormyr details such. See p. 62-63. A "charter", that is a licence paper for adventure companies to be allowed to gather in Cormyr, costs 1000 Golden Lions (the cormyrian currency) + an additional 300 Golden Lions for the administrative act of signing the Charter.
"Cormyr has a keen interest in keeping close tabs on those who walk the countryside bearing arms and who seemingly have no higher purpose than to merely "seek adventure", which is a formula for unrest and chaotic behavior if there ever was one. The Purple Dragons generally dislike adventurers because of the disruptions they cause the peaceable Cormyreans.
Anyone with the power to issue a charter can revoke one at any time for any reason. Should a member of a given group commit a crime, that person is automatically removed from the list of registered names on the charter.
The charter gives the adventurers the right only to bear arms, not the right to conduct themselves in an uncivilized manner."
Now, are the players behaving civilized?!
Not if they sell weapons without a license. See Volo's guide to Cormyr, p. 9. (free at the WOTC Download page - Sorry Wolly! )
"Weapon Trade licenses can be had from any local lord in the usual way of course, for a fee of 4,000 gp and an annual renewal charge of 2,000 gp first due at the next Greengrass. The approval process involves very slow and very thorough investigations of one's mind, past, and present doings by any number of nosy war wizards.
A false license can also be had from the man who grows an extra eye and appears only on misty nights at the end of random piers in Marsember, from a certain Suzailan professional escort to whom you must whisper the name "Sharanne" when you're in private, or from a serpentheaded man in the taproom of the World Serpent Inn in Arabel (The World Serpent is an establishment that can be found only by those who know how to enter it; everyone else steps into a run-down tavern called the Wild Goose when they stride through the door.) Purple Dragons have tried to slay or apprehend the snake - man on several occasions, but he commands transposition magic allowing him to switch his body with that of a beholder!
From any of these individuals - and probably others in Tilverton and Wheloon as well as several ambitious forgers in Suzail - one can get a license to sell weapons for 600 to 900 gp. Bargain shrewdly - those willing to perform a shady service or two for these vendors can get their desired document for a greatly reduced price."
A little off topic but it might help you anyhow...
Ergdusch |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 04 Aug 2007 : 14:30:35
quote:
Originally posted by SiCK_Boy
I don't agree with the "this module is supposed to be hard, se be a merciless DM" philosophy. The players didn't create characters to play this module specificaly. They wanted to play mid to high level characters because we often stop our campaigns in the 5th to 7th level range. Once that decision was made, I chose to run them through CotSQ, so I don't think they see it as a uber-module to be played once and then it's over. Rather, it's the opposite: because I want them to feel some appreciation toward their characters, I don't want to be too hard. I don't mind having them pay for their mistakes, but just hitting them for the fun of it isn't my style.
Well met! I never said that you should be a merciless DM if you run this module. I used quite broad generalizations as I wrote about how a DM and his players *might* relate to this kind of 'super-adventure'. However, you noted yourself how they all play neutral and 'mercenary-minded' PCs, who are not very interested in the political background/setting behind the events or even in socializing with the major NPCs.
I repeat my advice about using physical hand-outs, both 'irrelevant' (pages of a diary, wall-writings, symbols) and 'relevant' (letters concerning the PCs or containg important information, maps, pictures of important locations/NPCs) ones.
One way to get your players 'emotionally invested' in this adventure is to show the consequences of their actions. So the drow are launching counter-attacks and killing the innocent people of Daggerdale? Show those graves or bodies and grieving relatives (such as children) to them as they visit Daggerdale next time. Let Randal Morn begin questioning this venture, asking the PCs to stop raiding the drow, since the cost in human lives is becoming too high to bear. Show them abused human slaves as they return to assault Szith Morcane (maybe the Drow will even take hostages that they begin killing and/or decapitating if the PCs won't retreat). Maybe the Drow will animate some corpses (zombies) of their victims - some of them might even be known to the PCs?
I agree that the War Wizards will sooner or later begin to monitor the affairs of the PCs. IIRC you need a license to sell arms and armor (especially magical gear) in Cormyr, and guilds (Ed Greenwood has posted a lot of info about Cormyrean Guilds here at Candlekeep) might also be interested in learning more about the PCs (they are stepping on their markets). I also think it is a good idea to use the Red Wizards to buy the stuff from the PCs (and lure them into their 'fold' and intrigues). If I were you, I'd run a whole session in Suzail when they teleport there next time - they should definitely be confronted by the Agents of the Crown (Purple Dragons and War Wizards) who'd demand them to register as a legal, chartered adventuring group and (after a thorough questioning to determine that they don't have any fishy motives) buy a Royal License to sell magical items in Cormyr (all in all, some thousands of GPs, IIRC). If they resist and are imprisoned, why not have the Red Wizards come to their rescue?
Like you wrote, the Harpers will also certainly be interested in learning what the PCs know and where their loyalties might lie (especially if they're being 'courted' by agents of the Red Wizards). There is alot of potential for intrigue and 'cloak-and-dagger'type of (mis)adventures here...
You seem to ponder a lot about tactics and encounters in general beforehand (even about whether you should use an encounter that endangers their 'critical' pieces of equipment). You even wrote how the barbarian's player told you about the plans he has for the magical sword. In essence, he is signaling to you: "Please don't take this sword away! It is very important to my character's identity!". But is it, storywise, or is the sword more important to him in mechanical terms? What, then, if he lost it? Would he see his character as 'unplayable'? What if the cleric's player told you that he has a clear image of his character building a temple or a shrine to his deity, and using his boots to 'descend' (angel-like) from the dome of the temple among the faithful... would you ignore his next 'fumbled' saving throw, if he'd end up losing the boots? My advice is that you shouldn't 'protect' their equipment just because they might think that a sword or an armor is 'essential' to their character. The adventure is filled with magical gear, so losing a weapon should not be devastating (at least when compared to losing permanently levels or ability scores).
Note that I base my assumption on what you've told us about your players' style and characters, and to me the barbarian seems to be an 'experimental' build first and foremost. So he wears an Armor of Speed, which grants him Haste - hopefully not the broken item from Defenders of the Faith, which grants permanent Haste as long as you wear it?
The only 'tactical' advice I can give is that if your PCs keep teleporting to the Crypts, the Drow will probably cast a Dimensional Anchor (permanent) or Waethra's Warm Welcome there (and if they keep teleporting to the same spot in Suzail, the War Wizards will definitely cast a Dimensional Anchor there). |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 03 Aug 2007 : 11:55:17
I have not read all the text and not all responses either. So I might repeat things that were said before. However, I have dm'ed this modul myself so I have some insight on the situation. As for how my session went: well the pcs chickened out once they encountered the high priestess. They simply ran as fast as they could.... I still don't know why for they basically cleaned that place until than. However, they did solve the problem for Daggerdale, and later the main cause as well.
Anyhow, what I say is based on my philosophy of dming. therefore take it as u see fit or leave it entirely.
1. On general issues:
I believe playing RPG is about the pc's not their equipment. So of the Barbarien rushes headon onto the black pudding, so be it. If he distroys his sword that way - a challange to forge a new one I'd say. That has nothing to do with being a mean dm, but just with how careful a player might play the game. With a cautioned approach e might be able to avoid such outcome. But if the dm always lets him get away the cheap way he might never learn the lesson. Besides there is always a chance that the sword does not dissolve (or not so?)
Also, if a player dies in every session, than the players should rethink their method of action. It is no fun loosing a level over an over again. (Remember: True Ressurection is not easily available as it is a very high level spell that only a few clerics a even able to perform. And this spell would need to fulfill special circumstances to be even granted, e.g. target is of the same patron as the cleric, is of heroic character, and the like).
2. On the current situation:
I believe that drow, having been attacked twice and counting severe losses, would do certain preperations:
a) ward the area of entrance against teleportaion magic and/or set spell traps.
b) use summoning magic to compensate the losses
c) draw the remaining forces together.
d) make strategic arrangements, like clearing certain areas and focusing the defence in one stratigic or important location, except for a few sentries that spy out the threat.
Or even do the unexpected: they might move out of the entire cavern and leave just a few behind to examen the threat. It could be an entire army waiting on the doorsteps.... Once they know the enemy it is easier to act against him. They might still not know that only 4 pescy adventurers harrass them. Once that is clear they migh start a controlled counter attack, blocking teleportation magic first with Dimensional Anchor (4th lvl Cleric/Wizard spell) or Dimensional Lock (8th lvl Cleric/Wizard spell) and than ripping the fools appart with summoned monsters and arrows/bolts first, countering the opposing ranged magic attacks, and having some forces move behind the pcs to fall in from behind or the flank by sword and maybe lizard.
Ergdusch |
| Zanan |
Posted - 02 Aug 2007 : 23:54:39
To keep them focussed on the adventure? During the next encounter, let them face up to one of the Kiaransaleens (with some more interesting back-up than the "usual drow fare" - Abyssal ghouls, qth-maren etc.) and have her cast a spell on them. That could have a side effect of drawing some of their soul essence away and that would - upon research - mean that if they are slain, their chance of being resurrected etc. is down to 50% or such (see barghest entry in MM). Thus, they are more inclined to follow that priestess than they might be inclined to follow Randal. (BTW, there's no need that the drow priestess actually knows about it all, could just be a side effect of a twisted necromantic spell she used ...) |
| SiCK_Boy |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 03:55:45
I don't agree with the "this module is supposed to be hard, se be a merciless DM" philosophy. The players didn't create characters to play this module specificaly. They wanted to play mid to high level characters because we often stop our campaigns in the 5th to 7th level range. Once that decision was made, I chose to run them through CotSQ, so I don't think they see it as a uber-module to be played once and then it's over. Rather, it's the opposite: because I want them to feel some appreciation toward their characters, I don't want to be too hard. I don't mind having them pay for their mistakes, but just hitting them for the fun of it isn't my style.
If and when I choose to put them in situations where death is a very likely possibility, it has to bring them to think and change their behaviors afterward. The trap that killed the thief, for exemple, forced them to be more cautious about doors, and they also started using detect magic more often (they had also fallen for the summon celestial lions trap, almost losing a character in the surprise round).
And by the way, we play 3.5, so I try to update the adventure as much as I can.
However, thanks for the suggestion about giving more cash for magic items than the basic 50%, particularly in regard to Cormyr's situation after the war. The players have also complained that they found it cheap to get just 50% for the items, so I'll have someone (working for a Red Wizard spy in disguise) offer them 60% and free Identify, as well as a magician and adventurer's chart, which could lead to some interesting side-adventure when I decide to have them face the law for using a fraudulous chart and helping a foreign spy, and it'll also serve to introduce another of FR's power group (the players are relatively new to the Realms, having mostly just the computer games knowledge of the world). |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 30 Jul 2007 : 01:07:38
Well met!
I am in a hurry, so I’ll give you a longer answer in a few days when I have returned (from a trip to visit my relatives, but here are some quick thoughts:
First of all, it is no wonder that your players seem to feel ”unattached” to their characters. As you wrote yourself, 10th level characters should have a lot of history (and many adventures behind them) and your players probably feel a bit intimidated by this fact. It probably doesn’t help things at all if they see this adventure as a ”stand-alone giant module”, or a mini-campaign, that will eventually end - making their characters’ potential interests and goals irrelevant in the long run. You might also consider that when a player creates a mid-to-high level PC for an adventure that the DM describes as “challenging”, they are free (and even encouraged by the DM) to try any maximized build they’ve been dreaming about (e.g. the barbarian in the group).
Some players might also see D&D as a “roll-playing game” – I don’t know your players, so I can’t say anything about them, but some of my players have claimed that “D&D is not a role-playing game, so don’t bother wasting your time in writing elaborate plots – they are for more sophisticated games like Ars Magica or Warhammer. *THIS* game is about uber-combos, magic, treasure and XP!”. If your players think that way, you should definitely sit down and talk with them about how *you* feel about the game.
I’ve generally noticed that physical hand-outs *always* get the players’ attention. If your players are history buffs, give them hand-outs that describe the ancient history of the drow city or the Dordrien family. Actually, you might hand them anything – a page from a book about Kiaransalee’s worship, pieces of a diary, a wall-writing, a hastily drawn map, etc. |
| Sanishiver |
Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 08:52:59
Some thoughts, comments and questions:
There’s no good reason for you to hold back for the barbarian player vs. the pudding. 3E did a lot to balance the game (that is, make it so that DMs would be reminded not to throw players into challenges that would auto-kill all their characters) but that still doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be challenges.
If you have an ambivalent group that have lost their focus on the story, my advice would be to have the story piss one or more of them off, by simply running the adventure as written. If the barbarian player looses some gear, fine. All the better.
Just use that as a reason to imply that the pudding was put there by the master of the Aracane Tower or House Morcane, so your players can start thinking more about the story will now have a name/place to put with their vengeance. That’s a start. Heck, you could even hint in-game that the Arcane Tower is rumored to possess spells or magical substances that can repair acidic damage to get them in there.
Better to dangle a stick in front of them to keep them going, than to withhold it and have ‘em do next to nothing.
Having run this adventure and also having read numerous DM descriptions of running CotSQ, I can tell you this adventure is supposed to be hard. Let it be. That way when your players come out on top they’ll feel so much the better about it.
Other thoughts....if the PCs are mercenary minded, play to that. Leave the remainder of Dorina’s defenses as is, let her make whatever deals she can in the time allotted, then let the dice fall where they may. At the end of that series of encounters if the PCs win out, give them a big windfall. Double the average treasure towards the end, weighing it towards coins, gems, trade bars, etc...
The adventure is deadly enough that they’ll need to spend a chunk of the extra wealth on healing and resurrections, so it balances out more or less.
Also, have Randal Morn play mercenary back and/or get panicky about the safety of his people. Have him put a handsome bounty on drow heads and be sure he pays up when the PCs bring them in. The heads of magical beasts in service to the drow should be worth 5-10 times as much. Have Morn offer to pay 60% of market for magic items, then allow the PCs to haggle (by roleplay or Diplomacy checks, however you like) to push for 70%. He can then equip his people with whatever the PCs find in hopes of better defending themselves.
As for Cormyr, unless the PCs have an adventuring charter and the mage is registered with the Crown (the mage is above 4th level, which means the PC can cast certain spells that mark the character as having sufficient power to be, by law, required to register) there’s no good reason not to fine the hell out of them.
Conversly (and this is what I did in my game) you can show that Cormyr is a ripe market for magic items. After all the magic-item destruction wrought by the Ghazneths, it only makes sense that vendors would pay above cost for magic items that could then be resold to whomever is looking to re-supply (noble houses, merchant houses, even the War Wizards in the short term). If the PCs are smart and perform well on their hauls out of the Underdark, they could arrange for a healer or three to be kept on retainer at their favorite resell spot.
Sorry so long winded, but I hope this helps you some!
Also, check out the long-lived 3.0 to 3.5 conversion thread for this adventure (started by yours truly many moons ago) in case you are running by 3.5 rules. Note the thread is on Wizards of the Coast’s message boards: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=255217
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