| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 29 Jun 2007 : 01:14:28
This is just something that occured to me recently (in part because I was thinking about running a game that startes before the Time of Troubles). How do wild magic areas affect "non standard" magic, for example, the abilities of Binders or Warlocks, especially abilities that aren't quite like spells?
Would attempting to bind a vestige cause the binding to "go wild," and if so, what would happen?
Would an eldritch blast go wild?
I'm just kind of wondering, given that we didn't quite have as many examples of non-spellcasting magic in the "old days," and its still kind of relevant due to the continued existance of wild magic regions.
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| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Zeffaniah |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 10:46:42
Cheers, I'll see what happens :D
Be good till then |
| Hellkeepa |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 08:28:30
HELLo!
Glad to be of help, and hope it works out good for you and your party. :-)
Happy playin'! |
| Zeffaniah |
Posted - 20 Oct 2009 : 10:50:54
Thanks for your help Daviot and Hellkepa, that really helped me alot and some things came into my mind as I read what you had written - now it's just to try it out and see how it works :)
I will get back to you on this thread after we've played next time and tell you, how it went :)
Thank you all 4 once again, you've been a really big help.
Be good and have a nice day
Zeff. |
| Hellkeepa |
Posted - 19 Oct 2009 : 05:06:30
HELLo!
The issue of how to challenge a med/high level party can be a tough cookie, indeed. Especially if one doesn't have much experience with a party at these levels. The best way to do it, however, is to play the encounters strategically. Use every single ability, skill, special attack, strategy and item the PCs oppnonents have. If they are reasonably intelligent as well, they can employ not only flanking and ambush manouvers, but also pre-planned strategies. If they are very intelligent (10 or more int and wiz), then we're talking about serious strategy as well. Moves like baiting, long-term planning, multi-stage manouvers, traps and so forth.
For instance; A dragon in a cave is easy pickings for such a group. Have that dragon swoop down from the sky, grab one of the flying mages and torch the rest of the party with the breath weapon, only to retreat above the clouds before the party can regroup and attack... The grabbed mage is lucky if he's just held there, or he could be an unluky appetizer if the dragon is in an especially foul mood. Hell, it could even dispell the Fly spell, and use the mage as bombardment on his next run on the party.
The whole clue is two-fold: First is to identify the party's weak points, and use those against them. Especially if the enemies are intelligent, and has had an oppertunity to observe the party in advance. Second is to always play on the enemies strong points, and ensure they're used for the most optimal effect.
And just to get back to the topic:
Dead/wild magic sones in dungeouns or small vallyes/gullies can be quite powerful, even if the spellcasters are aware of it; They simply won't have anywhere else to go. Just be careful about using this kind of tactic on the party, as the spellcasters will soon loathe you for it if used too often. (Which is not very often at all, seeing as you render them completely useless without them having any counter measure.)
Happy playin'! |
| Daviot |
Posted - 19 Oct 2009 : 00:12:49
Ooh, scroll necromancy. Fun.
[casts Daviot's Hasty Addendum]:
Note, that an area can theoretically be wild to both magic and psionic abilities. Myth Drannor (albeit a special case), comes to mind.
—Antimagic fields "jam" all preternatural effects, including spells, psionics, and supernatural effects.
To compare/contrast, using electromagnetism analogies*:
-wild magic/psionics areas are areas that interfere with normal transmissions.
-dead magic/psionics areas are devoid of power or that as sinks that prevent power from being utilized.
-antimagic fields jam emissions of all forms.
*Sorry, I am an engineer, after all.  |
| Zeffaniah |
Posted - 18 Oct 2009 : 12:21:00
Thanks for the help Sage & Wooly, but I am far from an experienced Dungeon Master and I will not even try to begin with creating my "own" wild magic area hehe, great idea though, I like the thought.
I will use the "wild magic table" from The Forgotten Realms Compendium.
I first wanted them to enter a combat in a dead magic area, since they have 2 sorcerers and a cleric in the party. They are all 3 heavy geared with VERY useful spells for every combat, but as dead magic is described, they will be aware of the disruption in the weave, when they enter the area and then all the fun kinda disappears, since they then will be aware of it.
They are all affected by Heroes Feast every day, so immune to poison and fear the first 12 hours a day. Besides that, the have magic items that makes them capable of using Freedom Of Movement, so can't really be grappled & all spellcasters can cast fly, so intercepting spellcasters first with melee and try to make them unable to be a part of the encounter also seems more or less impossible...
The best way to overcome this in the encounter I had in mind was a magic dead area.
I have tried to use Hangman Golems and War Trolls & Cloud Giants against them, but the melee (fighter and barbarian) have such brute force and gives bout 40 dmg pet attack (they have 4 attacks/round) so they also went down really fast.
So what the bloody hell can you do to really challenge this group?
I could rule as a Dungeon Master and make them get caught by a powerful enemy and strip them off all their belongings and start all over, but that would be a too easy and boring solution.
I have thought of putting an artifact or intelligent item into the party for a limited amount of time, to make some chaos inside the party itself, but can't really think of some that fulfill my needs.
How have you made your games as a Dungeon Master when the party you play with, have gotten beyond lvl 12 and is prepared for most encounters?
I have attacked them at night, when Heroes Feast don't work any more, I might try that again and then go for a quick pacification of the spellcasters with some poisons that require fortitude saves, to challenge the party, but in the long run, I really have to change the way encounters are.
We have never before played with characters that got up to this high level (11-14) and it's the very first time ever in 15 years, that I act as a Dungeon Master. We decided after the DM in this group was tired of not playing a PC, that we should take turns on becomg DM's and have our own player in stasis while we were DM's. Both good and bad sides bout that though.
I believe that you're far more experienced than I and have run campaigns with players above lvl 14, but how do you run the game when you do high level adventures?
Thank you in advance for reading this post, it's probably very confusing (like myself) and feel more than free to reply on it.
Have a nice day. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Oct 2009 : 06:15:39
Well, an idea that comes off the top of my head... Wild magic areas all twist magic in unpredictable ways. But maybe there's this one area that goes way beyond that, and does stuff that's not possible even in other wild magic areas. Something once happened in that area, and now it's got to be replicated or reversed. The PCs can be on either side -- stopping the baddies from doing it for evil purposes, or the PCs can be doing it for good purposes. It's obviously just a rough idea.  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 14 Oct 2009 : 00:21:46
quote:
Originally posted by Zeffaniah
Thanks alot for your respond Rupert & The Sage - much appreciated.
Any of you wouldn't know an adventure that involves dead/wild magic areas that would suit for a lvl 12/13 group would you?
I do recall one or two in DUNGEON Magazine, though I can't remember which edition they were for. I'll have to check.
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| Zeffaniah |
Posted - 13 Oct 2009 : 21:04:54
Ah cool, okay.
Thanks alot for your respond Rupert & The Sage - much appreciated.
Any of you wouldn't know an adventure that involves dead/wild magic areas that would suit for a lvl 12/13 group would you?
We are still playing 3.5 because well, we don't like the 4th Edition regarding storyline, changes in rules etc.
I must admit though, that here in Denmark it's getting more or less impossible to buy 3.5 stuff, since everything's sold out, unless you're lucky to find it well used.
Any of you who have the same issue?
Have a great day and remember; everything have an end, except for sausages, they have 2
Be good :)
Zeff |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Oct 2009 : 15:07:38
In Ed’s *home* Realms, " ... psionics doesn’t work through the Weave, and therefore stands apart from magic, can work in dead-magic zones, etc." [src: So Saith Ed July '04]
That's pretty much how I've always handled, as well. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Oct 2009 : 14:49:04
The official stance on psionics in the Realms is that it's like a psionicist carries his own mini-Weave. Psionics acts like magic, but it's not dependent on the Weave -- so areas of wild or dead magic won't even be noticable to a psionicist. |
| Zeffaniah |
Posted - 09 Oct 2009 : 09:57:38
Just sat and read this old post while I was searching for some wild magic area info.
Our beloved Master Of Mischief Rupert Wooley wrote that magic is magic, no matter how you access it, but what about psionics and their abilities?
I am asking because we had a similar question, but where the "spellcaster" were a psionic and we read some places, that psionics aren't using magic in the same way that "normal" spellcasters do, since it's coming from their mind.
In the Dark Elf Trilogy during the Times Of Trouble, the drows are having a big problem, since the priestesses can't cast spells, but there's one house (don't remember the name) who use psionic magic, since that's not treated the same way as "normal" magic.
I hope that some of you have a copper piece or 2 to tell me about this, since I am to try something similar in my campaign.
Kind regards
Zeffaniah |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 01 Jul 2007 : 00:29:21
Eep . . . some of my confusion was due to a slight bit of misreading on my part. For some reason I was thinking that the eldritch blast was listed as a (Su) instead of a (Sp), but it is indeed a spell like ability, and thus affected normally. And since its treated as a spell equal to one half of the level of the warlock, then its pretty easy to figure out how its affected. The only thing not affected would be weather the warlock lost his "spell slot or spell," since they have unlimited use of their eldritch blast.
On the other hand, all of a Binders abilities are considered (Su), and on page 19 of the Tome of Magic it even says that all of the abilities granted by a vestige are considered supernatural abilities, not spell like abilities, even if they mimic spells.
So going by a strict reading of the rules, it looks like binders are in fairly good shape during the Time of Troubles, unless anyone can think of any loop holes to this theory.
Thanks for the replies so far. |
| Darkmeer |
Posted - 29 Jun 2007 : 04:37:34
A vestige binding goes wild...
Okay, this is my take, and it's full of salt.
One of six things happens:
1. The vestige binding has a much lesser effect )loss of one or more abilities)
2. Nothing abnormal happens.
3. The vestige is more powerful than normal, although the binder is automatically influenced by it (add one or two extra abilities)
4. A different Vestige of the SAME power level is summoned and bound. This can happen in concert with any of numbers 1-3.
5. A different Vestige of a LOWER power level is summoned and bound. This can happen in concert with any of numbers 1-3.
6. A different Vestige of a HIGHER power level is summoned and bound. This can happen in concert with any of numbers 1-3.
Mind you, the vestige thing can also include a "normal" wild magic effect. I'd actually expect that sort of thing, especially dealing with dead things that aren't dead (or undead for that matter).
The eldritch blast thing I'd just roll on the wild surge table. It's close enough to a normal spell to just let it go on that.
There, salt's done.
/d |
| Kuje |
Posted - 29 Jun 2007 : 03:36:02
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Magic is magic, no matter how you access it. I'd say that warlocks and such would suffer the same effects as mages.
That's what I was going to say, less they use the shadow weave. Otherwise, I see no reason why those classes wouldn't have the same effects as the rest of the classes that use the weave. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Jun 2007 : 03:22:19
Magic is magic, no matter how you access it. I'd say that warlocks and such would suffer the same effects as mages. |
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