| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gwaeren Tiliano |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 19:28:55
I have a quick question: What happens if you are a psion and you take
mind-altering substances? If you try to manifest a power, would your power act as if it were under wild magic?
Think Charles Xavier on LSD  |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 13:34:42
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
The reason I include no penalties or bonuses for drink is because there are no penalties or bonuses for the thousands of other things that should affect a person's life. We don't include penalties for having to go to the bathroom, for being depressed (non-magically), for being disappointed, for being sexually aroused, for being disgusted (naturally), for eating food that is too spicy for you, or a million other things. I think it would be unbalancing to include arbitrary penalties for drinking, but that's just the kind of game I play. I can certainly see others imposing such a penalty.
I agree that it is a bit silly, and even irrelevant to the game (from my persective). Unfortunately, this is very typical in a "task resolution" system, such as D&D, where tactical bonuses and penalties (or gaining an "edge" in every situation) really do matter (at least to players). One aspect I really like in "conflict resolution" systems is that there is usually no mechanical reason to look for an in-game edge or bonus. |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 03:15:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Hmmm, penalties for being sexually aroused... Well, it could certainly impose a Charisma penalty in the wrong circumstances, and give a bonus to someone else's Sense Motive check. 
The Waterdeep public baths, Elminsters tower, anywhere in Sloopdilmonpolop, addressing Jergal, the list is near endless  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 02:14:38
Hmmm, penalties for being sexually aroused... Well, it could certainly impose a Charisma penalty in the wrong circumstances, and give a bonus to someone else's Sense Motive check. |
| EytanBernstein |
Posted - 25 Apr 2007 : 00:27:04
The reason I include no penalties or bonuses for drink is because there are no penalties or bonuses for the thousands of other things that should affect a person's life. We don't include penalties for having to go to the bathroom, for being depressed (non-magically), for being disappointed, for being sexually aroused, for being disgusted (naturally), for eating food that is too spicy for you, or a million other things. I think it would be unbalancing to include arbitrary penalties for drinking, but that's just the kind of game I play. I can certainly see others imposing such a penalty. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 23:44:31
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
The problem with this all is that we don't want to include game penalties for something that has no in-game benefit. I know that some people RP for its own sake and relish taking the penalties, but in most games I've played in, people would rather sit in the corner and drink milk than take a penalty on attack rolls because they decided that there character was going to get drunk. You could definitely work out some sort of chart that outlined the number of drinks in a ratio with bonuses and penalties. I don't know if it's necessary to include race, bodyweight, and height, and gender, but those are contributing factors in the real world.
Yes, you're correct. Pretty much no one wishes to have in-game (mechanical) penalties for their characters, unless there would be a social reward for drinking heavily. Maybe a drinking contest, with some significant stakes in it, or something? (e.g. "I'll tell you about the person you're seeking, but only if you can drink me under the table"). I don't think you'd need explicit mechanics or charts for it - I have usually asked my players how much they want to drink (synonymous for "how much penalties are you going to take?") and then using Con-checks to see what happens. Actually, I only ask if there is going to be an in-game conflict that has some mechanical relevance (a combat encounter, for example). Otherwise, I think it is up to the players and how they want to portray their characters' actions in narration ("Maybe I drink so much that I eventually vomit on the floor, throw some coins to the innkeeper while stammering apologies, and climb upstairs to pass out in my room."). |
| Grehnar |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 23:11:52
I think that the implication of the Concentrate skill would be that the character would retain their psionic focus until unconscious from too much drink but would find gaining their focus more difficult whilst getting there.
Interestingly, the Autohypnosis skill allows the alcohol to be tolerated as a poison but then raises the question of 'why bother?' |
| EytanBernstein |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 22:51:36
The problem with this all is that we don't want to include game penalties for something that has no in-game benefit. I know that some people RP for its own sake and relish taking the penalties, but in most games I've played in, people would rather sit in the corner and drink milk than take a penalty on attack rolls because they decided that there character was going to get drunk. You could definitely work out some sort of chart that outlined the number of drinks in a ratio with bonuses and penalties. I don't know if it's necessary to include race, bodyweight, and height, and gender, but those are contributing factors in the real world. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 22:47:26
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
I would only introduce alchohol penalties if I was going to include alcohol bonuses. Perhaps a character might gain bonuses to social skills. A lot also depends on the type of psionics. A wilder might gain in power from alcohol, but an erudite or psion certainly wouldn't.
This reminds of my younger (and a lot wilder) years when I still used to drink alcohol. I loved playing pool and snooker back then, and combining these two favorite hobbies (drinking and pool) I noticed that after three beers your skill (and confidence) had actually improved a lot. Sadly, the peak came (already) at about six beers and it was downhill after that.
Anyway, I just thought that maybe it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to grant some moral bonuses to Diplomacy (and maybe even some Dex-based) skill checks for a state of slight intoxication?  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 21:23:09
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
Indeed, there is a very fine line (perhaps even only 3 or 4 drinks) between
"I saw you from across the room and your beauty struck me, would you care for a dance?"
Diplomacy +5
and
"Weeaaargh alright love, wanna get with this?"
Diplomacy -30
Don't forget the morale bonus that increases as alcohol consumption does. |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 20:44:32
Indeed, there is a very fine line (perhaps even only 3 or 4 drinks) between
"I saw you from across the room and your beauty struck me, would you care for a dance?"
Diplomacy +5
and
"Weeaaargh alright love, wanna get with this?"
Diplomacy -30 |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 20:35:35
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
I would only introduce alchohol penalties if I was going to include alcohol bonuses. Perhaps a character might gain bonuses to social skills. A lot also depends on the type of psionics. A wilder might gain in power from alcohol, but an erudite or psion certainly wouldn't.
Heh, that's a slippery slope. You'd have to regulate alchohol levels then because after a certain point those social bonuses would degenerate into MASSIVE penalties.
. . . or that's what I hear. . . yeah, never done nothing like that myself ;) |
| EytanBernstein |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 20:24:39
I would only introduce alchohol penalties if I was going to include alcohol bonuses. Perhaps a character might gain bonuses to social skills. A lot also depends on the type of psionics. A wilder might gain in power from alcohol, but an erudite or psion certainly wouldn't. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 20:23:06
I'd say not, because the effect attempted is something has has been practiced and learned a certain way, and that isn't reliant on variables as much as magic. With magic, you're taking an outside energy, and, through the use of words, gestures, and materials, forcing it to work the way you want. Skew any one of those variables -- or the source energy itself -- and the end result will be skewed.
With psionics, though, it's something that is not subject to those variables. You know how to harness the energy and focus it. For each power, that's the only way you know to do it. It's like a learned maneuver.
Look at it this way: You know how to move your hand to put the key in the lock. If you get drunk, you'll likely have a hard time with coordination, and thus have a hard time getting the key in the lock. But you won't accidently put the key in your ear, and the lock won't suddenly turn into a very surprised large-mouth bass.
As Kaladorm says, a drunk psion will have a harder time focusing his will, and thus have a harder time triggering the power. But, if he can focus himself enough to do it, it should work normally.
At least, that's my take on it.  |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 20:13:40
Danilo Thann's 'miscasts' I think are more for show than an actual goof on his part, but thats besides the point ;). Perhaps random effects would occur, but I see psionics as no 'energy floating around waiting to do something' but only used by the wielder focusing. Focusing on a particular power, even when drunk, is unlikely to produce a completely different power, but with weakened force of mind it is likely to be less effective (to the point where it's not possible at all).
What I mean is that I don't see random bits of 'psionic energy' floating around and mimicing powers, a power has to be focused. In the same way a drunk mage is unlikely to produce another magical effect (what are the chances of accidentally performing the gestures, words, and inflections of a different spell perfectly?). |
| Gwaeren Tiliano |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 20:01:52
Well, what I'm thinking is that since the psionicist's powers originate from the clarity and focus of the mind's potential, and since alcohol will dim the focus of the mind, wouldn't the alcohol have some adverse effect on the power being manifested, such as it becoming a random effect?
Think of Danilo Thann, and what he does when casting spells while drunk |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 24 Apr 2007 : 19:34:09
Aren't there rules for alcohol reducing intelligence? In which case the psions spells would have less power behind them (lower DC), and after enough drink would not be able to manifest powers of certain levels (until his intelligence drops below 10 when he couldn't manifest at all) |
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