| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 02:35:36
Out of all the new base classes, these two are the most interesting to me from what I've seen. I'm wondering what you guys think of these two clasees. What you like and dislike, and any experience in using them. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 14:27:30
quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
.
We are getting bombarded with more and more feats, prestige classes, spells and base classes than ever, and whilst many are interesting ideas, a large number of them seem unbalanced or not thought through.
I imagine its due to the desire to publish as many sourcebooks as possible. Every "Complete....." needs to have 3 new base classes and chapters of feats and prestige classes. Every FR sourcebook "needs" PrCs and feats. But hey, variety is the spice of life right? |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 20 Oct 2006 : 10:24:21
I agree I love the variety offered, but part of the reason I don't use many base classes (where possible) is a protest against the way wotc are producing.
We are getting bombarded with more and more feats, prestige classes, spells and base classes than ever, and whilst many are interesting ideas, a large number of them seem unbalanced or not thought through. There's such a huge number of things to compare to, that of course the developers can't possibly balance their new feats or whatever, because it would mean comparing to the masses of stuff that has already come out, and so perpetuating the cycle.
Duskblades and Knowstones are two that spring to mind instantly. |
| Silvanus79 |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 18:03:03
I miss multiclassing. There were some fun options in that. But, I am going to disagree about the specialization in classes. I think that variety make the game interesting. Even with the customizability of feats and skills, the base classes get repetitive after a while. It's nice to see a little variety. However, I will also agree about the assassin and other specialized prestige classes. Anyone can stalk and kill, but they're not an assassin until they have acheived a level of expertise that makes them more than a simple killer. They are, literally, professionals.
And that druid idea is interesting. Perhaps someone would go into more detail? |
| Reefy |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 15:31:29
You can act as an assassin without having to have the assassin prestige class. For me the class represents someone who has gained enough skills to truly have mastered what it takes to be good at the job.
I agree with Kaladorm that I don't like base classes that are too specialist (something I see most of them as being), and I also agree with him about the druids. I have always liked Rich Burlew's concept of the fey druid (found on his website).
And whatever happened to multiclassing? |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 14:32:00
quote:
[I don't like base classes that are too 'specialist', it seems a little odd that someone could be so focused in their first level.
I agree and it seems to me that the Scout and Favored Soul are not too specialist |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 13:39:20
And now, all that quotes-inside-quotes make my eyes bleed.  
I have no problem with scouts and favored souls - one of my players create a scout, and is a very good character, speaking about rules/mechanic and roleplay/interaction. I think that all options, carefully handled, have a nyche in a campaign. In the end, itīs the approval (or not) of the DM and the way that the player use the new option (a feat, base class, prestige class, spell, etc.) that will matter.
My campaign stay more rich and flavored with the scout.  |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 09:21:00
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I ought to have a look at some of these classes in more detail then. I've not on the whole because I don't really like the concept of the new base classes - they mostly seem like a mish mash of other classes, PrCs stretched out for people too impatient to wait. Maybe that's just me being boring.
Well,
I'd rather have base classes then prestige classes because, to me, prestige classes seem to restrictive to me on how many levels a PC has to have and the entry requirements.
I see where you're coming from, and there are probably too many prestige classes. But to me the point of a prestige class is a focus on the 'prestige' - you have to earn it to get into that class.
Personally, I'd rather someone played a fighter/cleric, or something that moved into Divine Champion, or even a paladin, rather than the Favoured Soul, which doesn't seem to bring anything particularly new.
That said, having had a better look at the scout, it does seem like a cool class, though nothing there that couldn't be achieved via a little multiclassing or a prestige class.
See,
I'm the opposite. It feels to artificial to me that you might have to wait five levels to become.... say... a divine champion, or even longer if you don't take the right skills and or feats if a class requires such things.
Shrug.
by the same token, I'm not sure there should be divine champions at 1st level.
Why not?
I guess this is my 2e memory talking. Why can't a class take a prestige class at 1st level? An assassin for instance, it's a bit strange to me that an assassin can't be an assassin at 1st level. :)
But I'm a minority on this, so I'm going to bail on this discussion.
I don't like base classes that are too 'specialist', it seems a little odd that someone could be so focused in their first level.
However I do like base classes which bring something new to the board where a prestige class can't. One base class I've been championing is the beguiler, simply because one of it's unique things is the way they cast their spells (i.e. knows all their spells but of limited schools) and I don't think there's a way for a prestige class to capture this.
However I see no reason why a scout couldn't be made into a prestige class, or a number of other base classes. |
| Kaladorm |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 09:18:30
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Favored soul ... as far as i understood it is a Sorcerer with divine spells ... right?
basically yes, a spontaneously casting cleric 
I don't much like the idea of a spontaneously casting cleric.
However I think there should be a spontaneously casting druid. I always liked the idea of someone having a natural affinity with nature, rather than being taught by an elder druid, in much the same way a sorceror has an affinity for the weave.
Robin in the Moonshae trilogy is (was?) the prime example of this, particualrly the first time when she got angry and accidentally cast entangle |
| Kuje |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 03:00:19
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I ought to have a look at some of these classes in more detail then. I've not on the whole because I don't really like the concept of the new base classes - they mostly seem like a mish mash of other classes, PrCs stretched out for people too impatient to wait. Maybe that's just me being boring.
Well,
I'd rather have base classes then prestige classes because, to me, prestige classes seem to restrictive to me on how many levels a PC has to have and the entry requirements.
I see where you're coming from, and there are probably too many prestige classes. But to me the point of a prestige class is a focus on the 'prestige' - you have to earn it to get into that class.
Personally, I'd rather someone played a fighter/cleric, or something that moved into Divine Champion, or even a paladin, rather than the Favoured Soul, which doesn't seem to bring anything particularly new.
That said, having had a better look at the scout, it does seem like a cool class, though nothing there that couldn't be achieved via a little multiclassing or a prestige class.
See,
I'm the opposite. It feels to artificial to me that you might have to wait five levels to become.... say... a divine champion, or even longer if you don't take the right skills and or feats if a class requires such things.
Shrug.
by the same token, I'm not sure there should be divine champions at 1st level.
Why not?
I guess this is my 2e memory talking. Why can't a class take a prestige class at 1st level? An assassin for instance, it's a bit strange to me that an assassin can't be an assassin at 1st level. :)
But I'm a minority on this, so I'm going to bail on this discussion. |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 02:38:25
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I ought to have a look at some of these classes in more detail then. I've not on the whole because I don't really like the concept of the new base classes - they mostly seem like a mish mash of other classes, PrCs stretched out for people too impatient to wait. Maybe that's just me being boring.
Well,
I'd rather have base classes then prestige classes because, to me, prestige classes seem to restrictive to me on how many levels a PC has to have and the entry requirements.
I see where you're coming from, and there are probably too many prestige classes. But to me the point of a prestige class is a focus on the 'prestige' - you have to earn it to get into that class.
Personally, I'd rather someone played a fighter/cleric, or something that moved into Divine Champion, or even a paladin, rather than the Favoured Soul, which doesn't seem to bring anything particularly new.
That said, having had a better look at the scout, it does seem like a cool class, though nothing there that couldn't be achieved via a little multiclassing or a prestige class.
See,
I'm the opposite. It feels to artificial to me that you might have to wait five levels to become.... say... a divine champion, or even longer if you don't take the right skills and or feats if a class requires such things.
Shrug.
by the same token, I'm not sure there should be divine champions at 1st level. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 02:05:35
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I ought to have a look at some of these classes in more detail then. I've not on the whole because I don't really like the concept of the new base classes - they mostly seem like a mish mash of other classes, PrCs stretched out for people too impatient to wait. Maybe that's just me being boring.
Well,
I'd rather have base classes then prestige classes because, to me, prestige classes seem to restrictive to me on how many levels a PC has to have and the entry requirements.
I see where you're coming from, and there are probably too many prestige classes. But to me the point of a prestige class is a focus on the 'prestige' - you have to earn it to get into that class.
Personally, I'd rather someone played a fighter/cleric, or something that moved into Divine Champion, or even a paladin, rather than the Favoured Soul, which doesn't seem to bring anything particularly new.
That said, having had a better look at the scout, it does seem like a cool class, though nothing there that couldn't be achieved via a little multiclassing or a prestige class.
See,
I'm the opposite. It feels to artificial to me that you might have to wait five levels to become.... say... a divine champion, or even longer if you don't take the right skills and or feats if a class requires such things.
Shrug. |
| Reefy |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 01:29:34
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I ought to have a look at some of these classes in more detail then. I've not on the whole because I don't really like the concept of the new base classes - they mostly seem like a mish mash of other classes, PrCs stretched out for people too impatient to wait. Maybe that's just me being boring.
Well,
I'd rather have base classes then prestige classes because, to me, prestige classes seem to restrictive to me on how many levels a PC has to have and the entry requirements.
I see where you're coming from, and there are probably too many prestige classes. But to me the point of a prestige class is a focus on the 'prestige' - you have to earn it to get into that class.
Personally, I'd rather someone played a fighter/cleric, or something that moved into Divine Champion, or even a paladin, rather than the Favoured Soul, which doesn't seem to bring anything particularly new.
That said, having had a better look at the scout, it does seem like a cool class, though nothing there that couldn't be achieved via a little multiclassing or a prestige class. |
| Archwizard |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 00:27:19
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Favored soul ... as far as i understood it is a Sorcerer with divine spells ... right?
Just had a thought
How would a Favoured Soul of Mystra/Sorcerer who was aiming for the Mystic Theurge PrC play?
Green Giant on WotC's FR forum did an NPC write up of Symrustar Auglamyr using Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Mystic Theurge levels. It gives one interpretation of what such a character would look like.
I wrote up a Paladin/Favored Soul once, but never got a chance to play the character, the game never took off. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 23:41:28
quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I ought to have a look at some of these classes in more detail then. I've not on the whole because I don't really like the concept of the new base classes - they mostly seem like a mish mash of other classes, PrCs stretched out for people too impatient to wait. Maybe that's just me being boring.
Well,
I'd rather have base classes then prestige classes because, to me, prestige classes seem to restrictive to me on how many levels a PC has to have and the entry requirements. |
| Reefy |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 23:14:58
I ought to have a look at some of these classes in more detail then. I've not on the whole because I don't really like the concept of the new base classes - they mostly seem like a mish mash of other classes, PrCs stretched out for people too impatient to wait. Maybe that's just me being boring. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 23:05:36
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Favored soul ... as far as i understood it is a Sorcerer with divine spells ... right?
Just had a thought
How would a Favoured Soul of Mystra/Sorcerer who was aiming for the Mystic Theurge PrC play? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 21:51:25
Had 2 players use scout. Wonderful class. Seems fairly balanced.
Favored soul involved much discussion, but noone ever took it. The whole having only a handful of spells was a big turn off, as opposed to a cleric. One player did consider doing a favored soul/sorceror turned mystic theurge, just so they didn't have to build both int and wis. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 15:38:13
I still think the Healer is vastly underrated... |
| Silvanus79 |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 15:37:31
I have actually played a favored soul, and it wasn't all that wonderful. I usually know what sort of cleric spells I'll need, etc. And with the cleric's ability to spontaneously cast cure spells, I find a cleric to be a much better choice.
The scout, on the other hand, is a very nice class. I haven't played one, but I had a player who did. He utilized Spring Attack and dodge, mobility, etc to jump in, strike, and hop back out of reach. To make matters worse, he used a spear so that he could jump in, strike, and back off, and when the opponent tried to close on his turn, he received an AoO with the spear because of the reach. Needless to say, my only recourse was to make him into a pin cushion. Nobody could get close enough. |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 12:15:14
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Favored soul ... as far as i understood it is a Sorcerer with divine spells ... right?
basically yes, a spontaneously casting cleric |
| Victor_ograygor |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 11:46:07
No a fighter type with Divine Spells.
Favored soul
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20051206a
Divine Spells: The favored soul has access to the cleric spell list, which includes the various cure spells and other healing magic, as well as a broad array of attack, defensive, and utilitarian spells. |
| Sian |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 06:17:26
Favored soul ... as far as i understood it is a Sorcerer with divine spells ... right? |
| Aelf |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 04:08:32
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Out of all the new base classes, these two are the most interesting to me from what I've seen. I'm wondering what you guys think of these two clasees. What you like and dislike, and any experience in using them.
I've had a player roll a Scout.
One quick note: be sure to grab the errata from CA as it adds Disable Device to the list of Scout class skills.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a
The scout worked well. The player was debating a ranger or rogue and the group really wanted someone to handle traps. I don't think the scout turned out as sturdy as a ranger, but she rarely drew more than archery attention. When PH2 came out, the player (who was already past level 3) didn't care for the Dungeon Specialist alternative class feature as she was very fond of the scout's fast movement ability.
Memorable moments:
1. Tumbling back and forth between two fire giants while successfully avoiding AoOs and giving providing well-timed flanking bonuses to the half-orc fighter/thief (who really didn't need the hit bonuses, but loved the sneak damage) and the bard. (Yes, she convinced the bard to melee a fire giant -- a long story)
2. Using fast movement to get into a room with an enemy spellcaster before he could lock the door. This was a pleasant turn of events since the enemy had previously met/researched the party in a nearby town and was a bit forward with the scout. She was definately out for blood and the caster never expected her to be able to close the distance so rapidly.
Minor rule issues:
1. (This caused an in-game delay once, but has since been resolved) The skirmish ability activates when the scout moves 10' or more in the round and only applies to attacks that take place during the scout's turn. This means that:
a) AoOs triggered by enemies moving past or standing up near a scout don't receive skirmish damage as they occur during the round but not during the turn.
b) When a scout receives multiple attacks per round (level 8+ if a pure scout), moving 10' means that only a single attack is available for skirmish damage (barring a pouncelike ability)
c) A well-timed Benign Transposition (Sor/Wiz 1 - Spell Compendium) can move the scout 10' or more before the scout's turn in a round. Even though it makes me crazy, this reads like it counts as movement by the scout in the round and would trigger the skirmish damage for a full attack.
2) The scouts fast movement is an enhancement bonus, like a monk's (so it wont stack with monk movement) and not extra speed like a barbarian's class ability. Since most character's won't try to be both a monk and barbarian (immediately alignment issues) this wasn't a problem before, but the scout gives a way to achieve a 50' base speed at character level 4.
Another minor issue: Some rogues (and therefore scouts) will try to argue that the 'extra' in extra damage from sneak attacks and skirmish attacks applies to any attack as opposed to any attack that deals damage. I'm not sure if the Sage has clarified it, but we always play that sneak and skirmish dice only apply to attacks that deal damage and not to non-damaging special attacks like disarms, bull rushes, overruns, trips, etc. Also, sneak attack damage on thrown spash weapons and spells seems unbelievable. (Imagine a level 7 rogue triggering a wand of acid spash for d3+4d6)
Please pardon the long-windedness; I bet you're glad I never DM'd a Favored Soul!
|
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 03:24:48
Scout is the best class they ever came up with since the beginning of 3E. Period.
Haven't tried Favored Soul though. How is it?
Tried Warmage. Meh. If one does not truly invest it in a military setting, with a big roleplay/ranks/promotion emphasis... it is sad to play. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 02:55:39
I've had PC's play both of them and they seem interesting. Course both PC's never got that far into the classes but I'd hope the scout in my email game get's to get a bit further into the class then the soul did in my table top game. :) |
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