| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| RAKKIR |
Posted - 26 Jul 2005 : 15:51:19
Hello,
I am currently working on an AD&D related project. The project goal is to design a random trap generation program. The system I have developed is quite extensible and I must say I am rather pleased with it because the system can actually do quite a LOT and is quite flexible. The main thrust of this post is to ask for HELP in this endeavor in the CREATIVITY DEPARTMENT, which I am sorely lacking in.
So, please keep in mind the main thrust of this argument is for help with creativity...because now I'm going to engage in a rather large digression for a bit of background. This part isn't really necessary to read so you can skip all the way down to the part labeled by "END DIGRESSION" if you wish.
*************** DIGRESSION **********************
I have noticed there is a lot of "random generators" out there for the AD&D game that generate this or that particular thing. Usually a treasure list, or a wandering monster encounter chart or what not. A lot of these really are VERY GOOD programs and are very handy. I have used many of them in my campaigns and been very pleased with them. The problem I saw with these programs however, is that most of them hard-code the logic into the program and therefore they aren't very flexible. Plus they are a coding nightmares of boring redundancy. Anyone who has programmed, I think, will realize MULTIPLE 100 case long "switch" statements suck.
Plus, and this is the biggest bummer as far as I see things, non-programmers really can't make their own tables this way. I think NOWADAYS there are a few programs out there that let you make your own tables, but I have found the interfaces to be clunky, and that you have to pay to use them. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)
So, halfway through my YATGPNRW (Yet Another Treasure Generator Program Nobody Really Wants) project I said "This sucks, there has to be a better way" and I managed to fumble my way through, what I feel, is an alternative implementation.
Truth be told however, it is mediocre coding at best so it really isn't that big a deal, but -I- like it.
The BAD parts of my system are....
* Not quite polished enough for easy public use.....yet.
* No "nice and shinny" graphical user interface. Quite frankly, I'm not too keen on programming a GUI for something that displays a few lines of text at a time. The command-line is perfectly capable of displaying text and I'd rather spend my time doing other stuff. HOWEVER, you don't need to know any "command line scripting" to make it work. it really is a "press 1 to do this, press 2 to do this" sort of thing.
The good parts of my system are....
* EASY to create tables for. Anybody can use it.
* Tables can be of any length. (Obviously a table with 1,000,000 entries will use more computer memory than one with 100 entries so there are some practical limits here.)
* Very flexible. Can be used with any game-system that uses number based tables.
* Highly extensible.
* Error checking so you CAN'T screw up a table.
All you have to do to make a table is to create a plain text file....or copy your favorite, highly referenced, table out of a book.
Here are some examples, everything between "-----" is considered to be plain text within a file.
file:humanoids.txt
-------------------------
1-10:Mean nasty orcs
11:Green skinned goblins
12-15:Smelly stinky hobgoblins
16:Foaming-at-the-mouth gnolls
17-18:Clever and vicious kobolds
19-20:Warty rapacious trolls
21-23:A whole mess of ogres
-------------------------
When you tell the program to "roll" on the table held file "humanoids.txt" it will roll a virtual-dice of the correct type, in this case a 23 sided dice, (that's why it's called "virtual") and generate a result. Say the virtual-dice comes up with 18. The user then sees the FINAL result as "Clever and vicious kobolds".
Great isn't it!?!?
Well, not really, that example isn't very impressive. Here is where the program actually demonstrates a degree of usefulness. In any given table, you can point to another sub-table and the program will follow that out. In fact, one sub-table can point to another sub table and so on. All you have to do is enclose any sub-table FILENAME in square brackets and it will act as a placeholder for that sub-table information.
Let's create a (slightly) more useful example.
file:humanoids.txt
-------------------------
1-10:[number_appearing.txt] orcs led by a [orc_leader.txt] that plan on eating you.
11:[number_appearing.txt] goblins armed with [weapons.txt] that plan on eating you.
12-15:[number_appearing.txt] hobgoblins armed with [weapons.txt] that plan on eating you.
16:[number_appearing.txt] gnolls armed with [weapons.txt] that plan on eating you.
17-18:[number_appearing.txt] kobolds armed with [weapons.txt] that plan on eating you.
19-20:[number_appearing.txt] trolls armed with [weapons.txt] that plan on eating you.
21-23:[number_appearing.txt] ogres armed with [weapons.txt] that plan on eating you.
-------------------------
file: number_appearing.txt
--------------------------
1:1d4
2:1d6
3:1d8
4:1d10
5:1d12
--------------------------
file: orc_leader.txt
------------------------
1:3d level shaman armed with a [weapons.txt]
2:3d level fighter armed with a [weapons.txt]
3:4th level shaman armed with a [weapons.txt]
------------------------
file: weapons.txt
------------------------
1-3:greatsword
2:keen greatsword
3:flametongue longsword
4:+1 longsword
5:great-axe
-----------------------
Now, we tell the program to roll on the table "humanoids.txt" and the virtual-dice comes up 6. Well, that indicates a orcs and the program sees that it need roll some more virtual dice for those sub-tables. Some "magic computer fairies" (recursion) take over at this point and what the user ends seeing is a FINAL result of"
"1d8 orcs led by a 3d level fighter armed with a +1 longsword that plan on eating you"
Notice that the text "[number_appearing.txt]" and "[orc_leader.txt]" got replaced by the results of the sub-tables they pointed to. Likewise the "[weapons.txt]" text in the orc_leader.txt sub-table was replaced by a relevant roll on the weapons.txt sub-table.
Most importantly however, look WHERE the individual sub-table results APPEARED in the FINAL result. What happened is:
1: The weapons.txt sub-table result was -FIRST- included into the result of the orc_leader.txt sub-table.
2: THEN that orc_leader sub-table (including the weapons sub-table result) was included in its relevant position in the results from the humanoids.txt table.
The POINT of all this is that you can CHAIN as many tables as you want together, and NEST them as deeply as you want, and the program will take care of it all for you.
Meaning, you can quite literally generate an entire person, village, city, kingdom, WORLD...with just a few plain text files you whip up and chain together. The only limitation is how detailed you as a DM/Player wants to get.
I -find- this to be very useful as a DM, at least for my campaign. Plus, say you make a cool table (you actually DO create the tables necessary to generate an entire random world for instance) and want to share your masterpiece. Since everything is all plain-text you can give it to anyone you want to and they can use it too! Or email it someone, upload it onto an internet site, post it on a bulletin board (ahem) for copy/pasting or downloading, etc...
************** END DIGRESSION *******************
Anyways, I need some help coming up with vicious and insidious traps to ravage, maim, maul, dismember, and/or otherwise inflict horrible gaping wounds and agonizing pain on my PCs. (Don't we all?)
I am not so much looking for an entire DESCRIPTION of a trap, but rather just the "business end" that actually inflicts the damage.
In particular I would LOVE help with ideas for....
1: Things that can fall on PCs. (Rockfalls, big iron slabs, dropped monsters, etc.)
2: Things that can smash/crush PCs. (Big pile-drivers, closing walls, etc.)
3: Things that can slash PCs. (buzzsaws from the wall, giant scythe blades, etc.)
4: Various gases to use on PCs (gases that dissolves flesh, drain levels, blind people, etc..)
5: Liquids that can be sprayed on PCs (Green Slime, molten metal, liquid nitrogen, etc.)
6: Things that can flood a room (water, fine sand, mud, molten lava, etc.)
7: Horrible curses the PC's must suffer for their insolence... ("Thou shalt never know the love of another being and all shall be revolted by thy countenance" for instance)
8: Magical effects ("You touch the glyph of water and your entire arm turns to liquid which promptly begins to drain through the dungeon floor. By the way, you're bleeding. Badly." for instance. Those not based one existing spells gain bonus points.)
9: Things that can pierce PCs. (Giant spears, spikes that shoot from the wall, etc.)
10: Things that hold PCs but inflict little/no damage (Cages from the ceiling, bear-traps, etc.)
11: Illusions (Go ahead and waste your magic on the illusion of that beholder...)
12: Or any other fiendishly clever ideas you have.
Thank you all for your time. Any and all comments are appreciated. I look forward to reading your replies.
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sir Luther Cromwell |
Posted - 18 Aug 2005 : 22:32:32
I've also come up with another one. Currently, I'm trying to come up with traps that are somehow connected to the seven deadly sins. This one is greed.
Players see 50 gold pieces placed in a circle, each gold piece is two inches away from its neighbors.
The trap is sprung when the players stop taking gold pieces.
Save for the trap: Will save, DC=number of gold pieces taken
Effect: Character is aged a number of years eqaul to the number of gold pieces take times two. |
| Sir Luther Cromwell |
Posted - 18 Aug 2005 : 22:27:53
quote:
I use an hour delay because that would allow the creater of the pit to know "okay, I figure an hour is long enough for the minotaur to kill the PC's and eat them to get some nourishment before going back into stasis."
That's really good thinking. Out of curiosity, what was your reasoning for having a pit monster turned to stone?
Why thank you (sorry it took me a bit to reply back on this one). And my reasoning, well... probably same reasoning that orcs don't hang around in traps all day. The party I used it against also had a nasty cleric that turned any undead, and yet the party level was too low for any oozes or constructs. You should have seen the cleric's face when he casted 'read magic' on the walls. It was priceless. |
| Fletcher |
Posted - 16 Aug 2005 : 21:29:40
A villain once spent a whole year preparing to trap and destroy our party. He had a keep purpose built to mess us up.
10' tall outer wall, nothing special. Explosive runes inscribed on the gates.
The courtyard was bare of anything, even the ground was smooth stone (Transmute mud to rock).
When we broke open the door the front wall of the keep fell on us shattering the dozens of barrels naptha he had hung against the inside walls of the keep. We ended up being pinned beneath several hundred pounds of rubble, and every crack was leaking flammable fluids all over us. The evil bugger then put a wall of fire on top of us.
Only the party rogue escaped the horrid fate.
Mmmm...PC's taste better when cooked. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 15 Aug 2005 : 08:37:55
BY the way to Baator with blood! You don't need blood you jsut need moisture from your skin to set off Sodium and Potassium. Coat your hand in oil and you are OK, but even the SLIGHT bit of moisture(i.e. NORMAL dry skin) is enough for BIGORANGEBOOM. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 15 Aug 2005 : 08:35:16
quote:
Originally posted by RAKKIR
Just an addendum,
Spikes coated with sodium powder so when the victim's blood hits them they burn violently. (Sodium explodes violently when exposed to water and there is enough free water in blood to cause it to burn.)
I hate doing this but it is a compulsion of mine....
Sodium powder would never stay sodium for long. It reacts Violently with water yes, but that includes water vapour in the air. In fact Sodium reacts with just about ANY non metal, and that is why you will not find Sodium alone as a pure element unless it has been isolated by people. Sodium typically has to be stored in Kerosene just so it will not react.
If you coated a spike in Sodium (say a steel spike) it would most likely react with the carbon of the alloy. IF you coated IRon with Sodium it would most likely cause the Spikes to deteriorate VERY fast becasue it would draw all kinds of oxidizing agents to it.
NOW: If you want to completely say Bollocks to the science since it IS a fantasy world, you are MUCH better off using Potasium than sodium. When you throw sodium in water, it usually has enough energy just to skip around until expended. But Potassium usually releases enough Hydrogen out of the water to cause violent explosions. Potassium frees up more Hydrogen than Sodium and so goes BOOM alot more.
I have compared this many times. Any time I have thrown pure sodium in water it makes a cool show. When I throw Potassium in water it makes a cool ORANGE BOOM.
Sorry on the point of clarification, but I am compelled to do these things in matters of science... after all it is my profession.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Aug 2005 : 05:23:06
I had another idea this night. I call it the "King Arthur Trap".
The PCs are adventuring, when they find a sword thrust into a stone (the anvil is optional  ). The sword (which may or may not have an inscription on it) radiates magic. A PC reaches out, grabs the sword... and is stuck. Either the sword is cursed, and the PC can't let go of it, or the hilt was coated with sovereign glue.... For more fun, after doing this, the sword still can't be drawn from the stone! 
Or the stone (or sword) is actually a mimic...
Or grabbing the sword could set off some other trap -- a pit under the PC, the PC is paralyzed/petrified...
Or, for another twist, the sword has an inscription on it similar to the one on the Sword of Britain, and the PC who draws it becomes convinced (magically deluded) he is the rightwise king of Cormyr!  |
| Rhezarnos |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 08:39:45
Why just spikes?
Could be that a party is walking along a corridor when someone steps on a loose stone. Stone crushes a kind of piping system filled with oil of impact, it blows up and caves the whole place down. If you want, you can add some sort of flammable mortar to the structure... |
| Damian Naïlo |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 04:33:23
RAKKIR, how about spikes that triggered a Hold Person or simmilar effects when they struck. Then the PCs wouldn't be able to release themselves. Oh, the pain......and then you could use this as a trigger to make a monster (or two, or ten) suddenly appear, not giving the PCs a chance to dispel the paralysis effect. Or a hail of arrows, or something of the like. It's macabre, yes, I know. |
| RAKKIR |
Posted - 27 Jul 2005 : 18:09:41
Just an addendum,
What are some nasty things you can do to spikes? Like those that people fall onto. *SMILES*
I mean there is the obvious like coated in poison...
But what are some other things...I'm thinking...
- Coated in Poison (Obviously).
- Coated with disease.
- Coated with acid.
- Barbed, so pulling off them causes extra damage.
- Spikes designed to break off from the ground and "stick" into impaled characters to impede their movement/combat. Combine with barbs for added effect.
- Hollow spikes filled with poison, acid, slimes/oozes, etc.
- Spikes designed to break after impaling someone (say glass spikes) and release poison, acid, slimes/oozes, poison gas INSIDE the victim.
- Spring loaded spikes. So that, say a second after weight is put on them (AKA the victim impales themselves) the spring apart and tear free of the victim. Or just tear the victim open.
- Spikes with vertically running razors on them. (They would look like an * if viewed from the top) and after weight is put on them (victim impaled) all the spikes each move like three inches. But, adjacent spikes will move in opposing directions. That ensures that as long as a victim is impaled on at least two nearby spikes they will rip him apart (or just cut gaping wound channels in him)
- Spikes coated with sodium powder so when the victim's blood hits them they burn violently. (Sodium explodes violently when exposed to water and there is enough free water in blood to cause it to burn.)
- Metal spikes full of little hollows. So the spike would look like swiss cheese sort of. But, in each of these little holes is a round BB like object, The BB's are only attached loosely but far enough into the spike a falling victim will not tear them loose when the land on the spike. The BB's almost, but not completely fill up the "swiss cheese" holes, with just enough room to allow the victim's blood past. Which then ignites the sodium core of the spike sending the BB's exploding in all directions. So the victim is impaled on a claymore land mine that explodes from WITHIN them. Alternatively, if you don't like sodium use some magical stuff like "oil of impact" or something.
Anybody else got some goodies here too? Keep those ideas coming! |
| RAKKIR |
Posted - 27 Jul 2005 : 14:39:36
Xysma,
The trap in question is from "Traps & Treachery" which is a 3d party d20 product. I forget who makes it.
Wooly,
Personally, I hate ironguard...so your trap would give me a great deal of pleasure to use. All my PC's thought they were big and bad when the managed to get ironguard. This was back in 2E days. Looking back I feel it was a mistake to give it to them as a DM at that point in the campaign. Suddenly, every combat was them using ironguard. And since it was a city based campaign they fought a LOT of sword-weilding opponents. So, I just had to "enforce" certain rules of the game like they couldn't grab their sword hilts any more and use them. Of course, that lasted all of 3 seconds because then suddenly everyone bought specially made leather "socks" they would slide over their sword hilts when they cast ironguard. So, finally, they went against an evil mage...who knew they were coming and watched them fight several bands of his hired mercanaries. And so, by the time they had reached his "lair" so to speak, had several umber hulks waiting for them. Of course, Umber-Hulk claws are completely unaffected by Ironguard. By now, the PC's had started taking that spell for granted and become dependent on it as a sort of crutch. They started to take BIG chances in fights because they thought they had a powerful degree of immunity due to the nature of the combatants they had faced in the past. So, as the PC's had done in previous combats (which the evil wizard had witnessed) the PC's rushed into the room at the mage who was under "Project Image". The party's mage and cleric (who held back of course) were then prime targets for the umber hulks. So the fighters and thief wailed on the projected image for a round wondering why their weapons didn't seem to do anything and why the spell the "evil mage" had just cast didn't seem to have any affect. In fact, the spell had gone of perfectly as the party's mage and cleric were now silenced. And now the Umber Hulks promptly burst from the wall -behind- mage and cleric, grabbed them and yanked them back into the tunnel they had come from. Of course, being under silence, nobody heard their desperate pleas for help. Meanwhile, the projected image mage was keeping the rest of at the PC's going with taunts "When I'm done with you, I'll kill your familes....but before I do I'll give your wives and daughters over to my men...and then sell them into slavery. Besides, you can't hurt me, I have ironguard on fools and I KNEW you'd use it yourselves so I summoned these creatures to deal with you....by the way...where are your friends?" When the PC's turned around to see what he meant by his "summoned creatures" and "friends" comments and saw what was happening, and rushed back to give aid, the the projected image cast "wall of force" over the tunnel entrance and the rest of the party got to watch as the Umber Hulks dealt with the mage and cleric rather quickly, safely behind their wall. Which, being transparent, allowed the PC's to see everything that happened. And I described how the PC's were "seemingly impotent to help" as their friends were literally torn apart messily before them by the huge claws of the Umber Hulks and the gore was spraying and dripping all over the wall of force. How the umber-hulks ripped off the mage's arms and lower jaw and then turned on the cleric and disemboweled him...letting the near dead mage -try- to crawl away (of course he didn't make it very far.) Truly it was a beautiful moment for me as a DM...especially since I'm a closet sadist. *Winks*
Then the fighters quickly ran away because they didn't have a way to "dispel" the "ironguard" on the "mage." Why they never thought to "grapple" him themselves I don't know, but it wouldn't have worked anyways as he was a projected image. Then came the "you cheated as a DM" whinning at that point from some of the group. Of course, both they and I knew better so I let it go and I allowed them to "pay back" the mage later and they felt better about it. But, my mission had been accomplished and after that they were paranoid to use ironguard because they felt they'd "tip-off" the bad guys and so kept it in reserve as a "suprise weapon."
Yes, Ironguard is a spell I am now loathe to give out. Along with Fly and Charm Person. I don't care what anybody says, I think that in a city-based campaign Charm Person is one of the MOST powerful spells out there. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Jul 2005 : 05:44:21
A devious concept I came up with... Wait until one or more of the PCs casts ironguard on themselves. At that point, they have to walk thru an area that is entirely made of metal -- with open shafts (perhaps lined with spikes or blades) or pits (again, perhaps spiked) underneath.
They fall into the trap, and just before hitting bottom, pass thru a dispel magic field.  
|
| Xysma |
Posted - 27 Jul 2005 : 03:51:37
I can't remember where it came from, but the one trap that has always stuck with me was a fairly simple one that wreaked havoc on a low level party. A pressure plate triggered jets of blood that sprayed all of the PCs in a given area. The pressure plate simultaneously triggered a gate to open around the corner of the hallway releasing 3 or 4 dire wolves, who went straight for the blood. |
| RAKKIR |
Posted - 26 Jul 2005 : 18:06:43
Wooly,
Yes, I am already making SHAMLESS use of both the undermountain trap cards, the Grimtooth Series, -and- the "Traps and Treachery" series. Like I said...shameless. But then again, they say "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." *Winks* To be honest while some of the Grimtooth traps are quite devious...some are just plain silly. My campaign is not one where I will be handing out small packs of gum that explode when you pull a stick out for instance. So, you really have to pick-and-choose with them.
Luther,
GOOD one. That actually goes a long way in solving a problem I was having. I despise how some random pit-monster traps really make no sense. For instance, the abandoned lair that...when you fall into the pit you fight orcs. ORCS? The place has been abandoned for HOW long...and the orcs have been stuck in the pit the entire time without food/water/etc and are just fine? It doesn't make any sense! Therefore, I have always tried to make my pit monsters into things that don't require regular supplies of food (or subsist of unusual nourishment)...such as slimes, molds, undead, constructs, etc.
By having a stone-to-flesh spell (or stasis field now that you mention it) it allows you to open up your trap to a larger variety of creatures. Maybe it is something like...
1:When the trap is activated the monster at the base of the pit is made flesh.
2:Then, one hour later, ANY CREATURE still in the pit is made stone.
I use an hour delay because that would allow the creater of the pit to know "okay, I figure an hour is long enough for the minotaur to kill the PC's and eat them to get some nourishment before going back into stasis."
That's really good thinking. Out of curiosity, what was your reasoning for having a pit monster turned to stone? |
| Sir Luther Cromwell |
Posted - 26 Jul 2005 : 17:50:03
It's a bit complicated, but:
Players fall into pit. At the end of the pit is a stone statue of a minotaur (or other nasty creature you don't want to enter melee combat with). As soon as the players step forward in the pit, scribed runes on the stone walls cast 'stone to flesh' on the statue. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Jul 2005 : 17:14:22
The original Ruins of Undermountain boxed set had some trap cards in there. I'm usre you could find something useful there. I think that Ruins of Myth Drannor had similar cards.
And they're not Realms books, but there's also the Grimtooth's Traps books. |
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