| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 01:56:07
You know Id really like a little consistency out of WOTC
Once upon a time there was a race of creatures known as the Drow and they had magical equipment that would disintergrate in sunlight. Then 3ed came out and the powers that be decided that Drow equipment should no longer disappear in sunlight
The Reason?
"It wasnt fair to players that enemies had equipment that the players wouldnt be able to use after they'd vanquished the enemy" (or at least not for very long)
Im pretty sure it was Sean Reynolds who said this (or may have been Richard Baker)
Now the reasoning for this seemed pretty selective because in 3ed when a Balor for example dies the Death Throes ability destroys all the Balor's equipment (ioncluding its +1 Vorpal Long Sword and Flaming Whip
Now Im currently playing in a campaign of that setting that shall not be named and during one of the modules we killed a Warforged and the issue of whether we could strip the Adamantine off the warforged and sell it a rose.
The DM told me today that Keith Baker ha done an article that addresses this issue and the short answer is that no you cant sell it as, as soon as you remove it the armour becomes worthless. Now a Warforged can have its armour enchanted just like any other suit of armour so technically a warforged opponent could have a suit if Adamantine Plate with +10 worth of enchantments but as soon as the characters kill the warforged they cant use the armour and it effectively becomes useless.
Warforged have just become Pre 3ed Drow (infact they are WORSE than Drow equipment as at least you could use Drow equipment while you where in the Underdark)
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 23:13:54
Oh, and about the golems. It'd be interesting to do some math. We know how much mithril costs, and how big the golems are, and how much they cost. If we are just buying mithril with the cost of the golem, how much would we get? How big a statue would it make? Then throttle it back and figure out how much would be "filler" metal and how much you'd spend on ritual materials. You could even start putting a spreadsheet together, figuring out a percentage of pure mithril to other things. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 23:10:19
I can kinda understand why you can't use the destroyed Warforged armor on another race. All of the pictures of them I've seen make it seem to be extremely piecemeal armor. Maybe on another Warforged, but even then. Another character trying to wear the armor would find it lacking complete covereage or even a real way or attaching them (aren't Warforged about 8' tall and built like tanks?).
However, I would have no problem with the precious metal being harvested and melted down for reuse. Not having done much with Warforged or Eberron (aside from reading the setting), I don't know how much metal is used for each upgrade. I'd need to really read the rules and think hard about it. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 22:49:58
Actually, come to think of it, I am more upset about Mithril golems and Adamantine golems not yeilding (literally) tons of raw material when destroyed, becuause suposedly all that money you spend to make them doesn't really go to a huge amount of Mithril or Adamantine, but to a little bit of it and a lot of spells to change mundane metals into those materials temporarily (for the "life" of the golem). |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 22:47:25
Except that by the end of the novel the Windwalker Liriel had changed the nature of drow magic so as to eliminate the loss of innate abilities and magic item decay that existed prior to that point.
Which is not to say that some items may not of been fully changed (and thus we have Drowcraft items, which apparently aren't made anymore and for some reason didn't properly "upgrade" when Liriel's change occured). |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 22:27:00
Well, I think Drow items should decay... reason being is that it has happened in most every novel - Drizzt even lost his innate abilities, which says much for the power of the UD radiation.
This all goes to say that Drow magic/magic items lose their potency unless magically kept (aka Windwalker) upon the surface of the world.
C-Fb |
| Jindael |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 14:50:13
At the risk of going woefully off topic from warforged, and sticking with the current drow theme…
I admit, I fell prey to the 3ed edition concept of non-degrading drow items. I was weak and chopped of Mace Windu’s hand and tossed him out the window.
I was a player though, and the GM, who at the behest of the players (okay, mostly her husband) was “Totally updating everything to the 3.X rules” in her game. However, she wasn’t aware of some of the minutia, and she obviously planned a few drow encounters with the concept of having the equipment be useless to us once we were out of the area we were in.
However, when we discovered a appearance enhancing magic item, my fighter (who would never admit that she felt like a lump of mud next to the stunning elf sorceress in the party) gladly took it. And then me, the player, happily espoused on and on about how in 3ed, drow items don’t decay.
Poor greedy me.
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| Dargoth |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 14:48:34
Ive also got a theory as to why drow dont use regular Magic items
Before the drow where banished into the underdark they created magic items like everyone else ie they cast spells and sacrificed Xp to create them.
Then they where banished underground and the Female clergy of the church of Lolth take rule the cities and at some point the drow discover the Faerzress which allow them to enchant stuff simply by leaving it an area of Faerzress (see Lieral Baenre in her first book by Elaine Cunningham) this has the following effects on different elements of the drow race
Wizards: Drow wizards are no longer required to sacrifce part of themselves when they create magic items (ie the XP penalty from the item creation process) after all its not in drow character to sacrifice part of yourself to create something for another especially when theres an alternative
Clerics: Most magic items require an arcane spellcaster to create which in drow society means Males a sex that the female drow clerics of Lolth view as inferior and not to be trusted. By using Faerzress items instead of regular items it takes power away from Drow males (it would not suprise me if the art of creating regular magic items was lost in drow cities through lack of use and maybe even due to Lolths clergy outlawing the practice) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 14:31:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I like the idea of drow items decaying in sunlight. Not only is that what we had for many years, it also emphasizes just how different the radiations of the Underdark are.
It also adds a measure of mystery to the drow. When you keep that rule, then you can have a retired adventurer who claims he's killed so many drow... but where's his proof? Similarly, if a drow is killed or simply drops a weapon during a raid, when it melts away in the sunlight, it leaves little or no trace -- also enhancing the mystery of the race.
So, to me, it's the more flavorful approach.
I have to agree with Wooly.
I've always kept the 2e rules for drow equipment in sunlight in my campaigns. Even when the 3e rules did away with the ruling, I chose not to enforce it, and I found that my players did not complain.
It is a flavorful approach, like Wooly said. But at the same time, it keeps an integral part of the drow intact, and prevents the 3e trend for making all races similar in some aspects.
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| Forge |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 14:28:32
If I recall correctly, the vast majority of Drow weapons were enchanted, and retained their enchantment both due to "Mysterious Emanations" in the underdark. Once they were removed from this exposure, they began to lose their special abilities. I could be wrong here, but The actual physical decay of the items didn't get introduced until much later.
This rules set serves a dual purpose, first, it allows a formidable opponent without worrying about the implications of introducing mass quantities of enchanted weapons into the campaign, second, it helps also define how the Drow got their innate abilities. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 11:20:59
I like the idea of drow items decaying in sunlight. Not only is that what we had for many years, it also emphasizes just how different the radiations of the Underdark are.
It also adds a measure of mystery to the drow. When you keep that rule, then you can have a retired adventurer who claims he's killed so many drow... but where's his proof? Similarly, if a drow is killed or simply drops a weapon during a raid, when it melts away in the sunlight, it leaves little or no trace -- also enhancing the mystery of the race.
So, to me, it's the more flavorful approach. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 08:44:11
and I disagree with Elements of what Seans rants says
1) Sean accepts its ok for the odd encounter to have weapons that the PCs cant use
2) He also accepts thats its ok if the players are going to be spending much of the campaign in the Underdark as they can still use the weapons
3) So its only those campaigns that spend a fair bit of time in the Underark but will eventually leave that have the problem.
This does not require the abolishion DDS items
After all a Party that has Drow items but is planning to leave the Underdark could sell them in a Deep Gnome, Duegar mind flayer or even a drow settlement settlement or they could even take them home and sell the items to a collector on the surface (Presuming they keep the items out of the sunlight before they sell them)
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| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 06:20:38
You can read Sean Reynolds reasons for why Drow weapons should not decay at this link here to his home page: http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/drowitemsdontdecay.html
I think he raises several valid points. Read what he has to say about it and then decide whether you agree or not. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 02:43:29
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Im pretty sure theres something in Underdark for recreating the Old Drow equipment
You may be thinking about 'Darkoil' which protects drow equipment from the effects of sunlight. Or rather, you might also be remembering the 'Drowcraft' weapon special ability which allows a Fort save for drow equipment exposed to sunlight.
They're the only references I recall off-hand...
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| Dargoth |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 02:13:28
Im pretty sure theres something in Underdark for recreating the Old Drow equipment |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 02:10:15
Well actually, as best I recall, there was a time that Drow equipment was not subjected to sunlight damage.
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/drowitemsdontdecay.html offers an SRK rant.
There however was posted someplace on the web, can not find a site now, that appeared to restore sun decay and a potion that provided protecting from the same.
I will see if I can trace down the reference and revise post if I find it before somebodyelse does. |
