| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 24 May 2005 : 21:02:24
Some of the discussion on the Cormyr Campaign forums made me wonder. I know that according to the Avatar Trilogy of books that halfling souls go to the fugue plane was well. This would lead me to assume that all souls go there, at least long enough for the proper god to "collect" them.
What I was thinking was . . . I have a hard time picturing a dragon soul just laguishing on the Fugue Plane . . . or a beholder . . . and what about Phaerimm? Maybe there is a "back door" to the Fugue Plane, and not all of the souls of the dead approach the Crystal Spire from the same route?
Just wondering . . . and the irony is that the initial soul that made me wonder would actually have been elvish, not draconic, lol. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Jun 2005 : 05:31:23
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I think there is one myth about how Asgorath (possibly the same god as Io) was impaled on the shards of the sun and rained blood down from the sky, the drops of which became the first dragons.
The giants in Giantcraft tell a legend of how the first dragon eggs plummeted to Toril in a great meteor shower during the early days of giantkind. The giants marvelled at the little lizards hatching from the fallen eggs, never imagining that in centuries to come the dragons would become their most formidable rivals for dominion over Faerūn.
I've always preferred the draconic legends as they are presented in Giantcraft as opposed to the "theories of draconic evolution".
The myths play upon the mystery of dragons, encompassing their truly legendary and primordial nature. They work to keep dragons as representing the wondrously powerful creatures of legend and fable that they are, never something easily explained nor understood.
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| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 10 Jun 2005 : 04:30:03
There are in fact draconic myths, some of which are told in the Draconomicon--the original one, which was an FR supplement.
I think there is one myth about how Asgorath (possibly the same god as Io) was impaled on the shards of the sun and rained blood down from the sky, the drops of which became the first dragons.
The giants in Giantcraft tell a legend of how the first dragon eggs plummeted to Toril in a great meteor shower during the early days of giantkind. The giants marvelled at the little lizards hatching from the fallen eggs, never imagining that in centuries to come the dragons would become their most formidable rivals for dominion over Faerūn.
Although some scholars believe that dragons evolved naturally on Toril over millions of years, their theories do not jive with the legends that giants and the dragons themselves tell. It is somewhat debateable whether they are native or not. We know they did not really become prominent in Faerūn until around -30,000 DR.
Some of the draconic gods do appear to be interlopers, or at least use the aliases of draconic gods from other universes. Null also uses the names Chronepsis and Falazure. Hlal is also known as Aasterinian. And Tiamat is... well, Tiamat.
Cult of the Dragon, by the way, has an extensive write-up regarding Null, the draconic god of death. It is probably the most extensive lore regarding any of the FR draconic gods (excepting Tiamat of course.) It has abaout a paragraph each concerning the other draconic gods, although most of them are either culled or curiously absent from 3E.
|
| Antareana |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 22:26:52
well... and are dragons (with which the whole topic started) not natives to Toril? Then why do they worship dragon deities?(if they worship at all ;) )
It would be interresting to know what kind of creation myth the old draconic ones tell their youth. Or maybe what the sarrukh told...
and... hm... what would happen, if someone from a different prime material died in Faerun? I hope the astral connections work well in those cases ;)
In our Planescape/Faerunish Campaign it is pretty easy... all souls of the dead from Faerun go to the Fugue where not only Kel(oops, we still have Cyric ^^), but all gods of death reside (at least with an avatar) to judge the dead of their Pantheon-worshippers.
As for the wall.. that is really tough(since faithless do not worship anybody), but my players want to get rid of the wall anyway |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 06 Jun 2005 : 19:11:10
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Songrimm
Finally, finally, i found my old faith and pantheons book. you know the 2nd edition one about gods.
here s what s bugging me all the time.
in the story "knucklebones", the rise of bane, bhaal and myrkul, jergal is called the master over the end of all things.
the story procedes .. la la.. mighty man this three .. la la.. find jergal ..la la..
finally they decide that everyone of the three should get one portefolio. it goes a little like this.
bane : " i choose tyranny to be master of the world"
myrkul : " i choose the dead and as everything must die i will become more powerful then you "
bhaal : " i choose death (as in the transition from live to death)
so i can decide who of you will be more powerful. i can stay my hand and starve you, myrkul; or i can kill all and take power from you, bane"
this seems to imply that in ancient times all the dead were judged by the god of the dead and there was no fugue plane. any comments?
It doesn't really imply anything... Deities draw power from the execution of their portfolios, as well as worship.
Besides, it“s a myth. As Ed himself has many times said, mortals can never be certain about "godly matters". There are many myths such as this one, with countless variants... no one knows which ones are true, or even partially true. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 02:24:10
quote:
Originally posted by Songrimm
Finally, finally, i found my old faith and pantheons book. you know the 2nd edition one about gods.
here s what s bugging me all the time.
in the story "knucklebones", the rise of bane, bhaal and myrkul, jergal is called the master over the end of all things.
the story procedes .. la la.. mighty man this three .. la la.. find jergal ..la la..
finally they decide that everyone of the three should get one portefolio. it goes a little like this.
bane : " i choose tyranny to be master of the world"
myrkul : " i choose the dead and as everything must die i will become more powerful then you "
bhaal : " i choose death (as in the transition from live to death)
so i can decide who of you will be more powerful. i can stay my hand and starve you, myrkul; or i can kill all and take power from you, bane"
this seems to imply that in ancient times all the dead were judged by the god of the dead and there was no fugue plane. any comments?
It doesn't really imply anything... Deities draw power from the execution of their portfolios, as well as worship. |
| Songrimm |
Posted - 03 Jun 2005 : 02:12:04
Finally, finally, i found my old faith and pantheons book. you know the 2nd edition one about gods.
here s what s bugging me all the time.
in the story "knucklebones", the rise of bane, bhaal and myrkul, jergal is called the master over the end of all things.
the story procedes .. la la.. mighty man this three .. la la.. find jergal ..la la..
finally they decide that everyone of the three should get one portefolio. it goes a little like this.
bane : " i choose tyranny to be master of the world"
myrkul : " i choose the dead and as everything must die i will become more powerful then you "
bhaal : " i choose death (as in the transition from live to death)
so i can decide who of you will be more powerful. i can stay my hand and starve you, myrkul; or i can kill all and take power from you, bane"
this seems to imply that in ancient times all the dead were judged by the god of the dead and there was no fugue plane. any comments? |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 06:34:04
What if long ago, the death gods of the various pantheons met at Cynosure to hammer out a concord about the disposition of souls.
Perhaps there was a problem with gods stealing the souls of worshippers of other pantheons. Or claiming the faithless as their own in order to augment their power and divine rank.
Perhaps there was a problem with some gods punishing the souls of worshippers that had converted to the faiths of other patron deities.
Maybe they all agreed that Jergal would preside over the Fugue Plane and hold it in stewardship on behalf of all pantheons to maintain its neutrality.
Maybe they also set up rules about which god could claim which souls under what circumstances.
Lastly, perhaps they gave Jergal the office of impartially judging the Faithless and False and providing appropriate and fair punishment so that all gods might feel appeased.
This treaty would have been signed into law by agreement of all concerned parties and entrusted the position to Jergal (or his predecessor) which in turn passed down to Myrkul, then Cyric and most recently Kelemvor.
If this was a compact that all the pantheons or death gods agreed to, would you still have a problem with the current system? |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 05:55:29
I agree with that last statement Kuje, and something I had tried to say earlier in this thread.
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
I tend to agree with Gray's POV in the discussion, and don't see why the other deities cannot play a role in the game. The whole discussion so far seems to portay Kelemvor (and his tasks) and the other death deities as not compatible...
I could see the Fugue as a large area where all the dead go, and Kelemvor happens to be its caretaker, as well as the one that maintains the wall and the city.
All the other dieties of death actually have a say in judging who goes where. It is them that decide for the followers of their respective pantheons, where they go:
"Clangeddin you say, let me check my liist... Hmmm, I always thought you'd be more of Dumathoin's man... allright, of you go, that way. And you, you forsake the Mordinsamman... sorry, line up over there, towards that wall yonder, next please."
Kelemvor, in addition to being the Fugue's main-man, also happens to be the death deity for the Faerunian pantheon, so in addition to his tasks of overseeing the wall and such, he gets his say on those souls.
He takes care of those that the other death deities have judged as not compatible with their afterlives and it is Kelemvor who eventually makes the final judgement on wether it is the wall, the city, or in exceptional circumstances sends the soul with a missive to another death deity than the souls orginial one...
This scenario, where the various gods of the dead initially judge, is not mutually exclusive with what Gray initially mentioned with his 2nd and 3rd model. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 03:50:41
quote:
Originally posted by Songrimm
so after reading through the whole thread it seems to me that the problem is that kel is human.
so what would you say if the character that became the new master over the fugue plane was an elf or halfling or whatever. so then there would be a non-human hold judgment over the faf. i see no problem with that as this person is the boss here.
Well as I said earlier, I'd still have a problem with this if any of the other deities of the dead/death had that much power over souls that have nothing to do with them.
So each pantheon should judge thier own souls if those souls are faithless and false. :) |
| Songrimm |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 03:45:09
so after reading through the whole thread it seems to me that the problem is that kel is human.
so what would you say if the character that became the new master over the fugue plane was an elf or halfling or whatever. so then there would be a non-human hold judgment over the faf. i see no problem with that as this person is the boss here.
and the problem with giving lip service to the gods. now these people belive in the gods but not very strongly but they acknowledge their existence. this is not faithless to me so they get to their respective deity.
a false imo is someone who rejected all the gods of all the pantheons. these people have per se no god. and as was mentioned before this people are for the master of the fugue plane to judge. if one of the other gods is willing to take this soul s/he can allways ask for it or make a deal with the master.
now for the false. they betrayed their god and deserve a punishment. and here i have to agree with kuje. i dont understand why kel has to do it and not the god who was betrayed?
as for the uselessness of the other death gods. as i said before there is more to a death gods duties than just the faf. there are rites and memorial days this gods have to overlook. judging is not all they do. but again i agree with kuje that the mulhorand pantheons death god is an exception here. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 02:03:44
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I forget where the Zakharan cosmology is detailed. Maybe the Al-Qadim box-set but I don't recall. There are a few sparse details about it and the Kara-Tur pocket cosmologies in the Players Guide to Faerūn.
Khorne, I've discussed the Zakharan cosmology, as it pertains to 2e, in this scroll:- http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2349
What would happen if a diety from faerun tried to move in on zakhara?
Ps, are there elves, dwarves, halflings and gnomes in zakhara?
Well met
Hmmmm, let's not get too off topic on this. Mayhaps it would be worthwhile starting another scroll for this, khorne?
Khorne, under Alaundo's advice, I answered part of your query here in this scroll.
|
| Alaundo |
Posted - 31 May 2005 : 22:38:48
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I forget where the Zakharan cosmology is detailed. Maybe the Al-Qadim box-set but I don't recall. There are a few sparse details about it and the Kara-Tur pocket cosmologies in the Players Guide to Faerūn.
Khorne, I've discussed the Zakharan cosmology, as it pertains to 2e, in this scroll:- http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2349
What would happen if a diety from faerun tried to move in on zakhara?
Ps, are there elves, dwarves, halflings and gnomes in zakhara?
Well met
Hmmmm, let's not get too off topic on this. Mayhaps it would be worthwhile starting another scroll for this, khorne? |
| khorne |
Posted - 31 May 2005 : 18:47:08
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I forget where the Zakharan cosmology is detailed. Maybe the Al-Qadim box-set but I don't recall. There are a few sparse details about it and the Kara-Tur pocket cosmologies in the Players Guide to Faerūn.
Khorne, I've discussed the Zakharan cosmology, as it pertains to 2e, in this scroll:- http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2349
What would happen if a diety from faerun tried to move in on zakhara?
Ps, are there elves, dwarves, halflings and gnomes in zakhara?
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 May 2005 : 10:06:47
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I forget where the Zakharan cosmology is detailed. Maybe the Al-Qadim box-set but I don't recall. There are a few sparse details about it and the Kara-Tur pocket cosmologies in the Players Guide to Faerūn.
Khorne, I've discussed the Zakharan cosmology, as it pertains to 2e, in this scroll:- http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2349
|
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 30 May 2005 : 09:45:13
Well, the Astral is chanelled anyway, so once you enter it you can only go to the plane you name. The Astral is kind of like an airport hub. The spell to enter the Astral is like your ticket. It only allows you to go to your predesignated destination. But while you are in the Astral, you can hang out with the other people there. And when you leave the Astral you go to the plane you named when you entered.
The "hubs" for the continent of Maztica and for Zakhara appear to be separate from the others. For instance, during your "layover" you can interact with the Maztican passengers, but cannot connect with those in the Zakharan or Faerūnian "airports." And vice versa.
Kara-Tur's "Astral" may not even be an astral plane as such, it operates like the Spirit World featured in the Manual of the Planes.
Ao seems to have allowed the gods that represent the peoples that settled in these territories to set up pocket cosmologies. Attached by their own Astrals to the territories their peoples inhabit.
Sure, one Astral plane might have worked, but Ao (and the FR designers) chose not to go that route. There are 4 Astrals, or at least 3 Astrals and a Spirit plane.
The Maztican cosmology is detailed in the Maztican box-set. It's interesting.
I forget where the Zakharan cosmology is detailed. Maybe the Al-Qadim box-set but I don't recall. There are a few sparse details about it and the Kara-Tur pocket cosmologies in the Players Guide to Faerūn. |
| khorne |
Posted - 30 May 2005 : 07:29:05
Why are there so actually so many different Astrals? Wouldn`t it be easier with just one? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 23:55:51
I wonder sometimes if due to the fact that the Avatar Trilogy was not really carried out as well as it should have been, that some of the characters that debuted in that series are given a little harder time, no matter how they are presented later in Realmslore?
|
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 22:14:49
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But the thing is, I prefer death to not be gloomy and sinister. And when it comes to depth, when has Myrkul ever been presented with any depth? Kelemvor, at least, has a personality and is someone that you can understand and relate to.
Personally I prefer the deities and their motives not to be understood by mortals. I like when there are unexplained mysteries about them and their clergy. And I do prefer death to be both gloomy and sinister (both as a player and a DM) 
What I meant by saying that Kelemvor lacks depth is that his "Death is just a part of life"/"Thou shall be judged by thy deeds"-type of attitude is... boring? Certainly for a DM, at least. And I guess Kelemvor and his faith won“t play any major role in most campaigns, unless one of the PCs is his cleric or lay follower.
Maybe it“s just me, but I think that both 'Faiths & Avatars' and Eric“s 'Eye of Myrkul'-module gave us a lot of Realmslore about Myrkul and his followers (and also about the Cult of the Dragon, and the history of the North). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 21:55:50
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I guess I'm the only one who didn't like Myrkul...
I thought he was kinda boring, as the stereotypical "Ooh, death is scary!" deity. Not that Kelemvor with his "Death is a part of life." attitude is terribly original, but he's a lot more interesting to me.
Ah, Wooly, you really think Kelemvor Lyonsbane in a silver mask is more interesting than Myrkul? It may be that "the mortals feared him greatly", but there is more to Myrkul“s worship than mere "ooh, death is scary!"-type of aspect (as presented with the Crown of Horns and the Mere of the Dead Men-series). Our PCs have encountered many mysteries tied to Myrkul“s faith, gloomy and disturbing, yet not all of them necessary evil. Faiths & Avatars did a great job in presenting the Gray Ones and Myrkul“s worship in detail.
I liked Jergal, Myrkul and Cyric far better than Kelemvor. Maybe because they all had more "depth" than the current Lord Death does. In part because Cyric“s and Myrkul“s cults present a DM with many plot hook opportunities. And certainly because they all were a bit more gloomy and sinister (even Jergal) than Kelemvor.
But this is just my opinion 
But the thing is, I prefer death to not be gloomy and sinister. And when it comes to depth, when has Myrkul ever been presented with any depth? Kelemvor, at least, has a personality and is someone that you can understand and relate to. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 21:50:53
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I guess I'm the only one who didn't like Myrkul...
I thought he was kinda boring, as the stereotypical "Ooh, death is scary!" deity. Not that Kelemvor with his "Death is a part of life." attitude is terribly original, but he's a lot more interesting to me.
Ah, Wooly, you really think Kelemvor Lyonsbane in a silver mask is more interesting than Myrkul? It may be that "the mortals feared him greatly", but there is more to Myrkul“s worship than mere "ooh, death is scary!"-type of aspect (as presented with the Crown of Horns and the Mere of the Dead Men-series). Our PCs have encountered many mysteries tied to Myrkul“s faith, gloomy and disturbing, yet not all of them necessary evil. Faiths & Avatars did a great job in presenting the Gray Ones and Myrkul“s worship in detail.
I liked Jergal, Myrkul and Cyric far better than Kelemvor. Maybe because they all had more "depth" than the current Lord Death does. In part because Cyric“s and Myrkul“s cults present a DM with many plot hook opportunities. And certainly because they all were a bit more gloomy and sinister (even Jergal) than Kelemvor.
But this is just my opinion |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 23:06:10
Actually the only reference of the Pantheon's areas I can think of is the picture in F&A which makes more or less a schematic attempt at drawing these 'black & white' geographical areas, and even that one is not clearly detailed...
Returning to the example of the Shou embassy in Waterdeep. One devout member of the embassy's staff died of food poisoning. Since Waterdeep is in the geographical area of the Faerunian pantheon, the poor Shou is deemed a false?
No, because despite the fact that the Shou physically is within the area of the Faerunian pantheon, the embassy's staff member would still have received his spells etc via the Celestial Bureaucracy's channels. The Shou's soul would still be claimed by the Bureacracy.
And vice-versa also applies. This is very similar to the concept of model#3 presented earlier, wherever a worshipper of a deity goes, that worshipper takes with him/her a portion of his/her deity's influence, regardless in what geographical area. Obviously mass movements of worshippers would raw a definite reaction of the established powers in that area, but other than that, the indvidual would likely be left alone to his/her own divine support. Something which seems to clash with model#1.
Actually an example of model#3 taking place is the expanding influence of the Faerunian and Mulhorandi Pantheon in Unther. The map in F&A actually illsutrates this dynamism. Only because the established religions did no longer have the power - both deific and followers - to resist the encroachment of the other two pantheons.
I can still see the separate Astrals functioning in the theoretical model#3. In fact the silver thread that connects the individual from one area would still be connected even if that individual moves halway across the globe... |
| Kuje |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 22:25:18
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn HuzalGranted, semantics, but what are the geographical areas of control ?
I don't see the statement overriding the cell-phone theory... separate astrals, linked to areas whose boundaries are determined by temples, shrines and other holy places that represent the influence of deities of a specific pantheon/faith... I don't see a conflict with the text in PGtF...
The graphical areas are the continents of Toril, it's clearly detailed. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 22:13:43
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Then you need to read page 164 since each Astral is seperate from the others. It's right there in black and white. "Several different Astral connect to Toril. Ao oversees the seperate astral planes. Characters in the other areas can enter different Astral Planes with links to the Outer Planes inhabited by thier own deities. These Astrals are based on the geographical areas of control held by the different pantheons."
How is this not clear? This is just like your #1.
Obviously the word "separate" means something precise and specific to you Kuje, however I cannot ascribe such scientifc precision to the term as you do. This may just be a point of semantics, indeed, however I see nothing in any of the above 3 theories that conflicts with the language you have quoted above. |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 22:06:57
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
[br These Astrals are based on the geographical areas of control held by the different pantheons."
How is this not clear? This is just like your #1.
Granted, semantics, but what are the geographical areas of control ?
I don't see the statement overriding the cell-phone theory... separate astrals, linked to areas whose boundaries are determined by temples, shrines and other holy places that represent the influence of deities of a specific pantheon/faith... I don't see a conflict with the text in PGtF... |
| Kuje |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 21:56:59
quote:
Originally posted by Gray RichardsonI am certainly taking into account what it says in the Players Guide to Faerūn. It certainly says these continents have their own special astrals. However the PGtF doesn't say these astral planes are exclusive or that they preempt access to other astrals. It leaves the mechanics of it all rather vague, and I don't think you can make any conclusions about which if any of the three theories above are correct given what was presented in the PGtF.
Then you need to read page 164 since each Astral is seperate from the others. It's right there in black and white. "Several different Astral connect to Toril. Ao oversees the seperate astral planes. Characters in the other areas can enter different Astral Planes with links to the Outer Planes inhabited by thier own deities. These Astrals are based on the geographical areas of control held by the different pantheons."
How is this not clear? This is just like your #1. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 21:47:02
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Um? This is how it is according to the Player's Guide, except Zakhara's Astral also connects to the Elemental planes.
I am certainly taking into account what it says in the Players Guide to Faerūn. It certainly says these continents have their own special astrals. However the PGtF doesn't say these astral planes are exclusive or that they preempt access to other astrals. It leaves the mechanics of it all rather vague, and I don't think you can make any conclusions about which if any of the three theories above are correct given what was presented in the PGtF.
Model #1 seems to be the least attractive theory because it has ramifications that imply that teleport spells may not function across these arbitrary borders. Gods might have no access to their worshippers and spells could not be granted across borders. A planeshift spell or Astral projection spell might function very differently if you stepped across an invisible line.
And it doesn't really explain how the borders are determined and if they can change over time. Although I am sure such explanations could be figured out if we had to.
I like the other two models much better as they seem to meet the occam's razor test of simplicity and ease of use that makes for a much better fit with the cosmology.  |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 21:36:38
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Where does it say this? There is no lore that says these humans came from other Primes or worlds. For all we know they could have always existed on Toril, especially for Maztica's humans.
Powers & Pantheons p.2: "Much later, goblinkin entered Faerūn, as did humam peoples from other spheres, moving to settle in what we now know as Kara-Tur, Maztica and Zakhara.
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting p.261 "humans from other worlds migrated to places such as Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zakhara." |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 21:33:51
Yet Gray's 'cell phone' theory sounds more reasonable due to its dynamics, and it also strengthens the interdepency of deities and their followers.
Under that theory, it is possible for an embassy of the Shou in Waterdeep to still access 'their' astral plane, as long as they have put up a shrine or temple within the embassy...
This theory can also support modes where a deity from one pantheon/'geographic astral' area could absorp a deity from another pantheon/'geographic astral'. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 21:27:15
quote:
Originally posted by Gray RichardsonMODEL #1 - THE GEOGRAPHIC BORDER MODEL
Under this model, Astral planes are tied to specfic geographic territory. Every geographic point on Toril is tied to one Astral and one Astral only. If you enter the Astral by spell, you go to the Astral for that land.
Under this model, it seems it would be hard for deities from other lands to connect with their followers, I don't know if teleport would work and plane shift might not take you to the plane you want to go to. And if you died in the wrong land your soul would end up in the cosmology tied to that land.
This also means that Ao or somebody has to decide where the geographic borders of the planes stop and start, and it doesn't account for what happens if worshippers or entire populations emigrate across those borders. I find this theory unsatisfactory for several of the above reasons.
Um? This is how it is according to the Player's Guide, except Zakhara's Astral also connects to the Elemental planes. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 21:23:56
I still can't fully get that commet of Mystra's from Crucible out of my mind, when she was speaking to the Shou prince, that basically inferred that some of the Faerunian deities might be present in different form in Kara-Tur.
If that is true, then the souls of the faithless and false of these regions could easily come to Kelemvor, though they may see the plane differently and Kelemvor may appear differently to them (perhaps in Shou armor or silver and black instead of western, though the skull mask is likely the same).
Since different gods view the Cynosure differently, and Oghma's plane changes its appearance, I don't think this would be too much of a strech. |
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