| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Marendithas |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 02:18:17
I'm sending the party on a search for the lost Nether Scrolls. They received a clue (from an unknown source) to head to Mezro.
My question is this: Can anyone help me find information on both the Nether Scrolls and the possible spells they contain and where would the best DETAILED information be on Chult and Mezro in particular. I have some time as they are just heading into Baldur's Gate now and are still very low level to even attempt heading into the jungles.
I appreciate any information.
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| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 16 Jan 2006 : 17:51:11
quote:
Originally posted by Mareka
Mintiper's Chapbook on the Wizard's site (in their archives) has a little information, particularly in the section on the Leaves of Gold. Also pg158 of Cormanthyr, Empire of Elves in the section about secret treasures has some information. The Surrukh (detailed in Serpent Kingdoms) created them.
thanks this was useful |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 16 Jan 2006 : 07:00:24
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
To clarify somewhat, there were two sets of the Nether Scrolls discovered by the humans of Netheril.
""of the two known sets, one was stolen by the elves of Cormanthyr in -3095 DR and kept at Windsong Tower in what was to become Myth Drannor - see the Cormanthyr accessory.""
I KNOW!!! but the thing i need to find is what happened to windsong tower during the fall of mythdrannor and why teh scrolls are still there!!!?!?!?!? i am currently reading that cormanthy 2ed accessory from pdf but please drop a word bc im nearing the end of my search of it and have found nothing.
""The second set was stolen whilst en-route to Karsus' enclave just before the fall of Netheril which occurred in -339 DR.""
this is NOT correct. Netheril had originally 100 scrolss in
-3533.... then in
-3095 elves steal a set! so netehril has 50 left.
-2436 a thief steals 7 scrolls from netheril. 3 are put in the halls of mists. 2 go to the crypt of hssthak!!! (which answers your proposal about hssthak having a third set) and 2 are unkown whereabouts. so this means netheril has 43 left.
-1896 (blanket vague statement "24 scrolls are stolen from netehril)
basic math means there are 19 left in netheril.
-664 the next tiem we hear about a theft is the theft of them while en route to eileanar (karsus' stronghold) that means 19 were stolen at that time!
"" One is in the hands of an illithilich in the ruins of Dekanter.""
where did you hear about this?? are there more spurts of wereabouts tht u know of?
-- George Krashos
 
i am bad at editing this stuff but w/e |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 16 Jan 2006 : 06:37:38
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Assitional (though might be somewjat PBEM driven) Time line is offered here. It does include the distruction of some of the scrolls which are sourced elsewhere.
I found this entry intereting though.
" -2095/
* Half of the Nether Scrolls is stolen by elves of Cormanthyr and secreted away by the High Mages of that realm. One of the thieves is the gnome elf-friend Rilmohx Sha'Quessir.
"
Perhaps the Drow got some of these, or rumor is in error.
This one is interesting as well.
" -2381/
* Two of the Nether Scrolls are stolen during an excursion in the High Forest. The mages carrying the scrolls are slaughtered by a grove of treants. The Scrolls are never recovered."
Now where are these now? ;-)
Other entry that might be of interest:
" -1796/
* Twenty-four scrolls of the remaining Nether Scrolls are stolen. The thieves, fearful of Netherese retribution, destroy the golden scrolls, pounding them into gold chunks."
i know about the first one but where are these otehr two bits located? |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 02:07:41
The Creator Races were first mentioned by Paul Jaquays (the 'creator' of the concept) in FR5 The Savage Frontier and REF3 Lords of Darkness (1E). As for more information on the batrachi and the aearee, I think the only likelihood of more stuff is through the medium of the fans and a web article or Dragon article. Officially, I don't think we'll see much more at all - at least not for the next couple of years.
-- George Krashos
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| oldskool |
Posted - 19 Jan 2005 : 10:26:09
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Serpent Kingdoms states that the magical organisation known as the Ba'etith created them (p.97) in c. -30000 DR: note that this is my dating based on the timeline given on p.186 and the contents of p.97. What is interesting about this is that the Ba'etith was originally a sarrukh organisation. However, with the fall of the sarrukh empire of Isstosseffifil, the Ba'etith was in turn controlled by the other "Creator Races" - the batrachi and aearee - over the next several millenia. Again, see Serpent Kingdoms, p.97 for this. This source states that the Nether Scrolls were created over millenia and that they looked at the primitive magic employed by all races of that time - this could mean that the Nether Scrolls were created not only by the sarrukh, but also by the batrachi and the aearee through the vehicle of the Ba'etith. So, to say that they were created by the sarrukh alone is probably not quite right.
I am still burning with curiosity about the aearee and the batrachi, races of which we know very little. If only there were "Serpent Kingdoms"-style books covering these mysterious races!! *drool*
Note: this is not a new curiosity. This has been bugging me for YEARS, since the enigmatic "reptilian, avian, and amphibious Creator Races" comment in a 1st or 2nd edition FR sourcebook. (I want to say it was the grey box, but I'm not sure I'm right.)
oldskool |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 23:39:59
quote:
Originally posted by Marendithas
I read the first part of Netheril: Empire of Magic and it says that Finder found 100 scrolls, 2 sets each of 50.
OK. I have it. The first full set was stolen in 764NY and NEVER recovered. Whomever stole it was able to get by all the seals, traps and magic.{/quote}
Yup the elves got that set, just the Netherilites do not know this}
quote:
In 1963 NY 9 men broke into the "Most Holy and Magical Chamber of Ioulaum the Demidivine" to steal 24 scrolls.
These were broken into base metal.
quote:
Karsus asked for the remaining Nether Scrolls, 26, to be sent to his enclave. All the scrolls were stolen along the way and even after a 7 year search nothing was found.
It can be debayable about 26 being transported, as 2 are reported stolen in High Forest, and Three are reported stolen by an apertence. However what the number is, yes they were sent and never arvived.
quote:
So in all there should be 76 scrolls out there somewhere: One complete set of 50 and one group of 26. 3/4 of the Nether Scrolls are still available...
I still go with theory that there might be more out there, however can not prove it. The current official number of scrolls known of stands at 75, some certainly have been known to have a location.
[quote]
This is from Netheril:Empire of Magic. If anything has been published after this that tells of the fate of the scrolls please let me know.
George Krashos is a very excellent lore keeper, that can provide cites, there of course are other lore masters here as well.
In general I would expect that at best you have about 20 scrolls that might have become scattered, though in your campaign the complete set certainly could have been raided increasing the numbers scattered. Use of these scrolls sometimes results in rather dire effects so it is posible the thieves themselves failed to survive long enough to secure them. |
| Marendithas |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 23:14:09
I read the first part of Netheril: Empire of Magic and it says that Finder found 100 scrolls, 2 sets each of 50.
OK. I have it. The first full set was stolen in 764NY and NEVER recovered. Whomever stole it was able to get by all the seals, traps and magic.
In 1963 NY 9 men broke into the "Most Holy and Magical Chamber of Ioulaum the Demidivine" to steal 24 scrolls.
Karsus asked for the remaining Nether Scrolls, 26, to be sent to his enclave. All the scrolls were stolen along the way and even after a 7 year search nothing was found.
So in all there should be 76 scrolls out there somewhere: One complete set of 50 and one group of 26. 3/4 of the Nether Scrolls are still available...
This is from Netheril:Empire of Magic. If anything has been published after this that tells of the fate of the scrolls please let me know. |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 05:36:01
I remembered where I read it, it was College of Wizardry of all places, and I was wrong. It was not ten scrolls, but five sets of ten scrolls for a total of 50 scrolls.
The College of Wizardry points you to the Encyclopedia Arcana in the Netheril box-set. When I looked there I found a wealth of information on the Nether Scrolls.
Each set comprised ten, one-page, scrolls made of sheets of gold and platinum bound together in loose-leaf fashion.
The writing on each page was not fixed and seemed to scroll as you read it much like reading a pdf document on a laptop screen. One page of the Nether Scrolls could contain a multi-volume text that would take months to read and which was different each time you read it.
The five sets comprised the Arcanus Fundare (the fundamentals of magic theory), the Magicus Creare (creation of magical items), Maior Creare (creating magical constructs and living magical things as well as principles of anti-magic and the destruction and healing of the Weave), Planus Mechanicus (planar mechanics including the creation of demi-planes), and the Ars Factum (creation of Artifacts).
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| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 04:49:00
I thought I remember reading somewhere that a complete set of Nether Scrolls numbered 10. Is that correct? I don't remember where I read it though. If finder found 100 scrolls that might be ten complete sets. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 03:10:20
Well doing a little more digging, though not finding two sets (or more cf) scrolls, found this piece of lore at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/returnofshade
"The Nether Age
Three hundred years after the founding of Netheril, an adventurer now known only as Finder discovered the ruin of an older nonhumanoid civilization. Within the ruin he found one hundred scrolls made of flattened gold, each bearing keys to powerful magic, its learning, and its use. He bore these artifacts (which he named the nether scrolls for his homeland) back to Netheril and shared them with the arcanists there, who made their contents available to all citizens."
There certainly can be redundency and if the 1/2 recovered by elves reperesent a full set, there clearly were at least two sets found, by Finder. As some disappeared before and after the Elven raid, the half becomes debateable. A full set would have to be less then 50, further there certainly can be other ruins as well that some of the scrolls could be located to at a time perhaps add to the number under control of the Netherilites.
It strikes me as very posible at least 6 full sets existed and most likely more. Basically they strike me a spell books and every mage tries to have a backup. Though with high level magic the spell books would be rarer and making gold spell books to last that long, there almost certainly had to be two copies per race, as part of the crafting of the coopertive effort that appears to be implied.
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| George Krashos |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 00:30:25
To clarify somewhat, there were two sets of the Nether Scrolls discovered by the humans of Netheril.
Serpent Kingdoms states that the magical organisation known as the Ba'etith created them (p.97) in c. -30000 DR: note that this is my dating based on the timeline given on p.186 and the contents of p.97. What is interesting about this is that the Ba'etith was originally a sarrukh organisation. However, with the fall of the sarrukh empire of Isstosseffifil, the Ba'etith was in turn controlled by the other "Creator Races" - the batrachi and aearee - over the next several millenia. Again, see Serpent Kingdoms, p.97 for this. This source states that the Nether Scrolls were created over millenia and that they looked at the primitive magic employed by all races of that time - this could mean that the Nether Scrolls were created not only by the sarrukh, but also by the batrachi and the aearee through the vehicle of the Ba'etith. So, to say that they were created by the sarrukh alone is probably not quite right.
Of the two known sets, one was stolen by the elves of Cormanthyr in -3095 DR and kept at Windsong Tower in what was to become Myth Drannor - see the Cormanthyr accessory. The second set was stolen whilst en-route to Karsus' enclave just before the fall of Netheril which occurred in -339 DR.
Other than the set in elven hands, we know nothing more about the other, stolen set. We do know however that various 'individual' Nether Scrolls are noted as being in existence in the North. One is in the hands of an illithilich in the ruins of Dekanter. Others are in the Hall of Mists below the Grandfather Tree in the High Forest. Another couple of scrolls are in the possession of the sarrukh mummy Hssathak (see Serpent Kingdoms, p.96) who was once of Isstosseffifil. These references create some interesting questions about the second set of Nether Scrolls, the one not stolen by the elves of Cormanthyr.
Was it broken up after its theft and the individual scrolls scattered to various places like the Hall of Mists and Dekanter? One would have to think that this is very likely and actually a good thing for FR writers and designers. It lets them put individual Nether Scrolls (not whole sets, gentlemen, if you are reading this! ) throughout the North, Sword Coast and Heartlands.
Was there a third set of Nether Scrolls? My guess is that there was indeed a third set, because Hssathak has some in his possession, and it is unlikely that he got them from whoever stole the second set. Mayhap the Ba'etith still have a presence on Faerun and they hold onto the third set of Nether Scrolls (but separated for safety) awaiting the time when the Creator Races will rise again ...
-- George Krashos
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| Marendithas |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 23:55:00
Thank you all for your information. I'm glad I was directed to this site. I'm a relatively new DM and it was my wife, who is new to gaming, who found this site. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 22:36:17
Assitional (though might be somewjat PBEM driven) Time line is offered here. It does include the distruction of some of the scrolls which are sourced elsewhere.
I found this entry intereting though.
" -2095/
* Half of the Nether Scrolls is stolen by elves of Cormanthyr and secreted away by the High Mages of that realm. One of the thieves is the gnome elf-friend Rilmohx Sha'Quessir.
"
Perhaps the Drow got some of these, or rumor is in error.
This one is interesting as well.
" -2381/
* Two of the Nether Scrolls are stolen during an excursion in the High Forest. The mages carrying the scrolls are slaughtered by a grove of treants. The Scrolls are never recovered."
Now where are these now? ;-)
Other entry that might be of interest:
" -1796/
* Twenty-four scrolls of the remaining Nether Scrolls are stolen. The thieves, fearful of Netherese retribution, destroy the golden scrolls, pounding them into gold chunks."
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| Kentinal |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 21:24:03
quote:
Originally posted by Marendithas
I'm sending the party on a search for the lost Nether Scrolls. They received a clue (from an unknown source) to head to Mezro.
My question is this: Can anyone help me find information on both the Nether Scrolls and the possible spells they contain
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/time-netheril.htm
Offers a few clues about the scrolls and power they offer. Some are known to have been distroried all the rest stolen and still might exist, though odds at low.
The one line that caught my attention is this one. "
Karsus casts the 12th level spell Karsus Avatar and all magic ceases for a time, returning much changed."
So there at least is implied very high level magic that might be learned, however right now no 10th or higher spells are being cast in the Realms even if some know them.
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| Melfius |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 20:07:12
Wasn't there also something in the Cormanthyr boxed set about the scrolls? Where they were turned into golden trees or something? |
| Mareka |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 19:44:45
Mintiper's Chapbook on the Wizard's site (in their archives) has a little information, particularly in the section on the Leaves of Gold. Also pg158 of Cormanthyr, Empire of Elves in the section about secret treasures has some information. The Surrukh (detailed in Serpent Kingdoms) created them. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 06:57:54
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
The Arcane Age: Netheril: Empire of Magic boxset that Melfius has mentioned can be downloaded for free at WotC's download section.
Link to where that download and other downs can be found: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 04:01:00
The Arcane Age: Netheril: Empire of Magic boxset that Melfius has mentioned can be downloaded for free at WotC's download section. |
| Melfius |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 02:38:21
The Jungles of Chult accessory is about the best source of info available, although the novel Ring of Winter is good for flavor.
As for the Nether Scrolls, not much has seen print about them specifically, but the Arcane Age: Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set gives some detail. The novel The Nether Scrolls also features them, but again, little in the way of specific contents.
SPOILER ALERT!!!!!
The main character in the novel The Nether Scrolls (it's been awhile, so I can't remember his name) was able, by just reading the first of the scrolls, to cast at will any first level spell (2nd Edition rules). |
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