| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gelcur |
Posted - 12 Dec 2021 : 07:15:21
I know maps are an uncommon thing in the Realms but one can have cartographers make them copies for a price.
My question is what is that price? I feel like Ed has mentioned this in the past but we chat about maps so often in these halls searching for the right scroll is nigh impossible.
Maybe one of you sages has a link saved?
If I had to venture a guess I would say starts as low as 50-100gp for very simple maps of a small area. Move up to 500-1,000gp for an ok map of various detail depending on the scale. And maybe 5,000-10,000gp for an "excellent" map or a map with important information like trade secrets or maybe well documented reefs, rocks, places you could safely go ashore, etc. |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Gelcur |
Posted - 02 Jul 2024 : 21:41:25
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
Back in the Ye Old Days of 2E, the Waterdeep Map Guild (Surveyors', Map & Chart-Makers' Guild) would make any map for 25 gold. Volo's Guide to Cormyr 2.edition AD&D, there is description of a Scroll shop in Espar. The last column reads: maps 25 to 50 gp each Candlekeep Mysteries hand waves a copy of a "typical" (non magical) book at 100 gp. Guess a map would cost less then a book, right?
I'm on another map kick, and in addition to these references I also found a 3E one in Silver Marches p.63, lists the price for a copy of a map as 50gp. So I'm thinking low detail maps 25gp, high detail maps of say a region 50gp, then sort of multiples of 50gp per each additional region? Then obviously "secret" or desirable info would fetch a premium.
Another interesting map fact, the Pampered Traveler in Waterdeep has a map under glass table top of the known Realms in its library, from Moonshaes, to Thay and down to the Shaar. Seems to impress Volo at least, who one would assume has seen more than a few maps in his day.
My players are making a quick stop, chase through the city, at the Pampered Traveler and I'm thinking of using the map of Faerun from The Forgotten Realms Atlas p.4-11. It's a little larger than described but I imagine a map some well funded explorer, adventurer, cartographer band has been working on and expanding.
What do scribes think about using that as an in game resource? |
| Delnyn |
Posted - 17 Dec 2021 : 09:56:13
If someone offers you a map of all portals in Undermountain or a map of all gorges in Nessus, be extremely skeptical of veracity no matter the price. |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 16 Dec 2021 : 22:02:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
(there used to be a Flaming Tower but it burned down)
Sounds like it lived up to its name -- at least for a short time!
Like most of the other "extreme decoration" towers, it was made possible via illusion. However, once the tower actually caught fire, no one spotted the real fire in time to be able to do anything about it so down it went. The downside of having your building covered by an illusion is that you don't see the building from day to day. That is why so many towers are crumbling: if you can't see the actual structure, how do you know it is still in good shape? This has been brought to the Golden Table several times but it hasn't gotten any traction. Half the councilors are the owners of these towers so they don't want it outlawed and there are enough of the rest of the group that don't care because they don't live/operate on the Tor for recommendations on it to come out of the council. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Dec 2021 : 21:17:37
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
(there used to be a Flaming Tower but it burned down)
Sounds like it lived up to its name -- at least for a short time! |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 16 Dec 2021 : 20:58:44
You can have tourist trap maps, too. A few enterprising beggars in Iriaebor offer a "Sights of Iriaebor" map for a few coppers that gives locations for things like the Floating Tower of Iriaebor or The Icespire (there used to be a Flaming Tower but it burned down). These same lads can offer directions for "discrete excursions" at brothels and gambling halls for a few coppers more. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 15 Dec 2021 : 19:55:33
Also depends on what it is a map OF.
Map of a town...cheap.
Map of a Nation...middling.
Map of the entire area of Cormyr, Sembia, the Dales and the Moonsea...pricey.
Map to a hidden treasure said to contain a magical doodad...time for the DM to drain player pockets to incite more adventure. |
| Gelcur |
Posted - 15 Dec 2021 : 05:02:41
Much appreciated. So I was off by like 10x. I imagine these are "average" maps in the 25-50gp range. A simple maps would then be closer to 2-5gp, and excellent maps or maps with very important info would be more like 250-500gp, seems a bit cheap.
Good to have references none the less, I will likely retcon the offer to my players see if they bite at 25gp. |
| bloodtide_the_red |
Posted - 15 Dec 2021 : 04:46:30
Way back in the Time Before Time, maps are uncommon. Anyone can draw a map, but few people really have a need or use for one. The vast majority of people only travel in the pre made lanes of travel. And most people are just fine knowing Waterdeep is "to the North" of where they are at the time.
Back in the Ye Old Days of 2E, the Waterdeep Map Guild (Surveyors', Map & Chart-Makers' Guild) would make any map for 25 gold. Volo's Guide to Cormyr 2.edition AD&D, there is description of a Scroll shop in Espar. The last column reads: maps 25 to 50 gp each Candlekeep Mysteries hand waves a copy of a "typical" (non magical) book at 100 gp. Guess a map would cost less then a book, right?
A map is really a "custom" type thing, so the price can be anything.
Though also note it is BEYOND easy to fly in the high magic Realms. A simple first level druid(in 3E) can get quite rich wildshaping into a bird and then drawing maps. And that is the rock bottom for a sky drawn map. |
| Gelcur |
Posted - 12 Dec 2021 : 23:25:00
Yeah that looks to be the from Ed Greendwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Or at least very similar. My players found a cartographer in Waterdeep willing to make them a map this session, I quoted them 250gp. They were shooting for something like the one in Amarune's Almanac. Which is a nice little map, gives you major countries/towns, major forests and major mountain names. It reminds me of the sort of map you would get in the front of fantasy novels which is a ok with me.
Being 3 level 3s, they could scrape the money together to buy one but they decided to rich for their blood. They already have like 2,000gp of outstanding loans they want to pay down first. The important point is they want to start venturing out of Waterdeep but I wanted to nail home the point that maps aren't common place. Hell one of them hasn't even ever seen a map, she also has never left Waterdeep before so why would she need a map.
I plan for them to eventually stumble upon the Pampered Traveler with its excellent map on display as a table top under glass. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Dec 2021 : 16:01:57
I found this, but it doesn't mention prices...
quote:
First off: geography. Maps are expensive things (being rare, easily damaged or destroyed, and more often inaccurate than not). Large, detailed, “good” ones are usually owned by rulers (from mayors of cities who have sewer and street maps, up to kings who own large and varied collections of maps from everywhere, often largely old and fanciful), temples, and the families of mapmakers, explorers, and adventurers.
In many cases, limners (painters or portrait drawers), heralds (not “Heralds,” just ‘heralds;’ the difference should be outlined in the forthcoming POWER OF FAERUN), and scribes make a good living copying simplified portions of maps from such collections, as follows: royal scribes and temple scribes are on staff, so to speak, at the court or temple, and make copies for (stiff) fees. Independent scribes access the aforementioned private family collections, and in some cases the temple and court collections, too, by paying fees. An independent scribe usually pays a set fee for access, per map (which covers the time of a junior courtier or novice priest who brings the map to a work area within the court or temple, and watches over the scribe while he/she works, to guard against theft, mutilation of maps, and substitutions of false maps), AND pays a proportion (usually a third or a half, rounding up) of the price the scribe charges the client for the finished map. This means “maps for sale” are usually found or stolen items; most independent scribes don’t create a specific map until hired to do so.
It follows that books of maps are very rare and precious things, sometimes part of the most secret treasure of a guild or temple, and usually part of royal collections and kept in closely-guarded inner vaults.
The most famous one (known to most bards and minstrels by reputation only) is A MANYREALMS GALLIMAUFRY by the cartographer Trammeth Anstrelgor. Candlekeep owns a fragmentary copy (most books of maps suffer the vandalism of having one or more maps torn out), and the complete original, according to legend, was buried circa 1114 DR with Anstrelgor in his tomb, somewhere in Tethyr (precise whereabouts unknown). The most infamous one is RELVOR’S PORTALS, a slender grimoire of spells, portal locations and instructions, and portal vicinity maps; a dozen heavily-vandalized copies are known to exist; a few have been bought and sold at MageFairs, transfers that have involved the murder of owners and worse. Many realms have “official” mapbooks for the use of garrison commanders and other public officials, usually containing maps restricted to the realm only: one of the best of these is the constantly-updated CROWN BOOK OF THE REALM for Cormyr, a slim collection of Cormyrean palace, castle, and city, town, and village street maps.
The best collections of maps in the Heartlands, in descending order, are probably (please keep in mind the use of the word “probably”): The Herald’s Holdfast; Candlekeep; Piergeiron’s Palace in Waterdeep, The Star Court in Silverymoon; various hidden vaults beneath the High Palace in Silverymoon; The Hallowed House of Higher Achievement temple to Deneir in Selgaunt; the Royal Court in Suzail; the Society of Stalwart Adventurers club in Suzail; The Leaves of Learning temple to Oghma in Highmoon, in Deepingdale; The Halls of Inspiration temple to Oghma in Silverymoon; Twilight Hall temple to Deneir in Berdusk; and The Sanctum of the Seven Scribes (a book and map-copying library) in Athkatla.
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